Unbelievably bad goal.

[Majsheppard 203]

The whole idea that there has to be "conclusive evidence" to overturn an on-ice officials' call is actually bogus. Which is interesting, as it is always presented to us in this way.

The actual rules concerning goal reviews:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26326

Once it goes to review, Toronto makes the sole decision - completely regardless of what the on-ice call was. The war room is not "over-ruling" anything, as once it goes to review the on-ice call is void.

I think everyone is just so used to the way the NFL does it... which is a million times worse. Ask the Lions.

[Majsheppard 203]

I hope we beat them and keep them out, or at least make it clear Dallas should have been in. Then when Vancouver sweeps them, I will laugh all the the time I know this makes the nucks invincible. We will end up being screwed by this, but I will feel better playing a good game with honor.

Honestly, I am coming to terms with the fact that the NHL will not let us win another cup. We don't have a good enough story, and the league is interested in selling their stories. Damn the results if they interfere with the story. I'd bet that Washington, Vancouver, or some other big market team with a feel good story gets the big momentum calls and wins the cup. It seems to be the new way of business. At least the last four years it has been that way, excepting the time Detroit just made it impossible for the league to give it to Pitt.

[wingsfaninMA 3]

You can't review a kick after you are already reviewing if the goal crossed the line after the officials didn't see the kick.

It's impressive how you can be so arrogant with your post, yet so wrong at the same time.

knowing what youre talking about is overrated huh?

[Nightfall 871]

As I mentioned before, when Bert kicked the puck into the net, the Wings fans all cheered when the puck when in and was counted. When this goes in, even though it was even more blatant of a kicking motion, the Wings fans denounce the system. You can't have it both ways.

As for how I can't be outraged, what will getting outraged about it solve? It really solves nothing to get all pissed off about things. I just understand that the refs are human and mistakes happen. There was a reason why it was called a goal, and I would just like to hear the reasoning. Aside from that, I am not concerned about it one bit.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

As I mentioned before, when Bert kicked the puck into the net, the Wings fans all cheered when the puck when in and was counted. When this goes in, even though it was even more blatant of a kicking motion, the Wings fans denounce the system. You can't have it both ways.

We are Wings fans. The entire point is to be happy when things go our way.

Second, these are the Hawks we are talking about. We hate the Hawks and are going to be pissed about it.

Third, the puck DEFLECTED off Bertuzzi's skate after his foot made the kicking motion. It was not due to the momentum of his foot that the puck went into the net.

As for how I can't be outraged, what will getting outraged about it solve? It really solves nothing to get all pissed off about things. I just understand that the refs are human and mistakes happen. There was a reason why it was called a goal, and I would just like to hear the reasoning. Aside from that, I am not concerned about it one bit.

Then stop getting involved in the thread and focus on other things? People are pissed about the call. They are going to say so on a Wings discussion board. Just because you think it is understandable doesn't mean it is crazy for others to think it wasn't.

FIBS: For all the talking out of your ass you seem to have an issue with finding evidence of anything you say.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Doc Holliday

[CanadaBoy 151]

f*** it... Let's just kick the Hawks asses on Friday and Sunday.

If Dallas dosen't get another point... who has the tie breaker?

[Nightfall 871]

We are Wings fans. The entire point is to be happy when things go our way.

Second, these are the Hawks we are talking about. We hate the Hawks and are going to be pissed about it.

Third, the puck DEFLECTED off Bertuzzi's skate after his foot made the kicking motion. It was not due to the momentum of his foot that the puck went into the net.

Then stop getting involved in the thread and focus on other things? People are pissed about the call. They are going to say so on a Wings discussion board. Just because you think it is understandable doesn't mean it is crazy for others to think it wasn't.

FIBS: For all the talking out of your ass you seem to have an issue with finding evidence of anything you say.

So, in summary....

Wings score off kick in goal, all good!

Hawks score off kick in goal....AAAAAARGH! Whaaaaaaa! Conspiracy! Refs fixed the game! What a bunch of crap!

All good because its a Wings forum. Carry on!

---

Got it. Please carry on.

[Gordie Howe hat trick 110]

So, in summary....

Wings score off kick in goal, all good!

Hawks score off kick in goal....AAAAAARGH! Whaaaaaaa! Conspiracy! Refs fixed the game! What a bunch of crap!

All good because its a Wings forum. Carry on!

---

Got it. Please carry on.

Dude go piss up a rope, he kicked it and it never crossed the line thus no goal. I don't know what you saw, but you got what you wanted.

[Nightfall 871]

Dude go piss up a rope, he kicked it and it never crossed the line thus no goal. I don't know what you saw, but you got what you wanted.

Like I want the Craphawks to win anything. Please.....

[Majsheppard 203]

f*** it... Let's just kick the Hawks asses on Friday and Sunday.

If Dallas dosen't get another point... who has the tie breaker?

Chicago has it unless we hold them to one point in two games, and Dallas wins their final two.

[Nightfall 871]

Chicago has it unless we hold them to one point in two games, and Dallas wins their final two.

The hawks will be desperate. We will play timid because we will be playing not to get hurt. Hawks will win both games IMHO. Playoffs will be a different story though.

[Majsheppard 203]

The hawks will be desperate. We will play timid because we will be playing not to get hurt. Hawks will win both games IMHO. Playoffs will be a different story though.

It would have been so different if they actually lost that game like they really did...

[Nightfall 871]

It would have been so different if they actually lost that game like they really did...

True that

[KillerB14 2]

Please stop posting.

At 10 seconds in the video, Hossa's stick slightly redirects the puck. At 38 seconds, it's a goal.

Proof that his stick hit the puck? The blue of the crease is visible between the puck and the post; this suggests that the puck was headed away from the net on the bounce, which is likely given the angle Hossa was coming at the goal from.

That's not what it looks like at all. If you drew a line in the direction it started heading before Hossa's stick was near it to the point when it hit the post on the far end it would be straight. The puck never changed direction. It stayed on the same path.

[Buppy 1,720]

Chicago has it unless we hold them to one point in two games, and Dallas wins their final two.

Actually Dallas wins the head-head tiebreaker. Chicago is currently up by 1 win and 2 points, so Dallas is in so long as they gain 2+ points and 1+ Reg/OT win more than Chicago gets (or 3+ more points regardless of Reg/OT wins).

Phoenix, Nashville, Chicago, Anaheim, and Dallas can all potentially end up tied in points.

Ducks win any tiebreaker by virtue of wins. The other 4 could all end up tied in wins. All have 37 now except Dallas with 36.

For head-head tiebreakers:

Phoenix won against Dallas, tied both Nashville and Chicago

Nashville tied Phoenix and Dallas, lost against Chicago

Chicago won against Nashville, lost against Dallas, tied Phoenix

Dallas won against Chicago, lost against Phoenix, tied Nashville

Goal-differential for Head-head ties:

Barring completely epic defensive meltdowns by Nashville and Chicago, Phoenix would lose both

Nashville would beat Dallas barring any massive wins/losses

3 (or 4) way ties get confusing, but generally Phoenix gets in, Nashville is out unless against Phoenix & Dallas. Dallas is in except against Phoenix & Nashville. Chicago gets in except against Phoenix & Dallas. All 4 tie, Nashville is out. (That's assuming all tie in wins, Dallas and Chicago could both have up to 38 wins at 97 points, Dallas could be as low as 36.)

[RusDRW 155]

Honestly, I am coming to terms with the fact that the NHL will not let us win another cup. We don't have a good enough story, and the league is interested in selling their stories. Damn the results if they interfere with the story. I'd bet that Washington, Vancouver, or some other big market team with a feel good story gets the big momentum calls and wins the cup. It seems to be the new way of business. At least the last four years it has been that way, excepting the time Detroit just made it impossible for the league to give it to Pitt.

Fully agree. That 2007-2008 Red Wings team was head and shoulders above Pens and they still found a way to give them two games. Especially, Game 5 with three penalties in the OT. Next season we were just a bit better and that showed. Last season we played on par with SJS and got a plenty of penalties at important times (there is a thread about that here on LGW). NHL politics is based on people's short memory. We tend to remember who won at the end rather than who was playing better or what kind of officiating we had...

Practically, we have no chance this season. Well, I even think we'll be out in the first round. We don't have the tools to be much better than other teams and Detroit is not on the NHL schedule to win it all. That's not conspiracy. Just business. I'll think twice about getting play-offs subscription next week

Edited April 8, 2011 by RusDRW

[eva unit zero 271]

Fully agree. That 2007-2008 Red Wings team was head and shoulders above Pens and they still found a way to give them two games. Especially, Game 5 with three penalties in the OT. Next season we were just a bit better and that showed. Last season we played on par with SJS and got a plenty of penalties at important times (there is a thread about that here on LGW).

I hate penalty complaint s***. Seriously. Waah, they had more power plays the refs gave it to them! Stuff like that. Yes, there are bad calls sometimes. But refs generally get things right. My only major beef is the apparent tendency to try and call it "even" every game, when it often clearly isn't. It's sort of the reverse; by not giving the cleaner team more power plays, you are making it uneven in favor of the dirtier team. If they're even and should be, great.

As for the SJ series... on par is hardly accurate. Yes, the Wings had a hard time maintaining momentum due to penalties. But ultimately the Sharks played better hockey.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

This conspiracy stuff is embarrassing. Get a grip people.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

This conspiracy stuff is embarrassing. Get a grip people.

It's almost as embarrassing as the incompetency of NHL officials.

[wingslogo19 281]

Here

Another interesting take on the goal...Here

Thanks for the link. Love the jab at Perry

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Quote

49.2 Goals - Kicking the puck shall be permitted in all zones. A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who uses a distinct kicking motion to propel the puck into the net. A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who kicks a puck that deflects into the net off any player, goalkeeper or official.

The puck was kicked yes..but it was not at the net. His kicking motion was off the post..which is not a shot on goal. SO..in keeping with that....

Hold on now....The rule states A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who kicks a puck that deflects into the net off any player, goalkeeper or official. but its ok to be kicked towards the goalpost and then it goes in?

[Majsheppard 203]

Actually Dallas wins the head-head tiebreaker. Chicago is currently up by 1 win and 2 points, so Dallas is in so long as they gain 2+ points and 1+ Reg/OT win more than Chicago gets (or 3+ more points regardless of Reg/OT wins).

Phoenix, Nashville, Chicago, Anaheim, and Dallas can all potentially end up tied in points.

Ducks win any tiebreaker by virtue of wins. The other 4 could all end up tied in wins. All have 37 now except Dallas with 36.

For head-head tiebreakers:

Phoenix won against Dallas, tied both Nashville and Chicago

Nashville tied Phoenix and Dallas, lost against Chicago

Chicago won against Nashville, lost against Dallas, tied Phoenix

Dallas won against Chicago, lost against Phoenix, tied Nashville

Goal-differential for Head-head ties:

Barring completely epic defensive meltdowns by Nashville and Chicago, Phoenix would lose both

Nashville would beat Dallas barring any massive wins/losses

3 (or 4) way ties get confusing, but generally Phoenix gets in, Nashville is out unless against Phoenix & Dallas. Dallas is in except against Phoenix & Nashville. Chicago gets in except against Phoenix & Dallas. All 4 tie, Nashville is out. (That's assuming all tie in wins, Dallas and Chicago could both have up to 38 wins at 97 points, Dallas could be as low as 36.)

I misspoke on that, but basically if Chicago gets another win they have the first tiebreaker, which is wins. So even thought they both could finish 97, Chicago would have one more win. If Chicago gets two more points with no wins, the tiebreaker would be what you laid out. I am not sure, I haven't looked into it that much.

I highly doubt they won't get a win against us, we aren't exactly strong against the Hawks.

[Majsheppard 203]

This conspiracy stuff is embarrassing. Get a grip people.

Conspiracy or not, you have to note a correlation between bad calls and game outcomes no?

Conspiracy or not, you have to note a correlation between bad calls and popular or large market teams no?

Conspiracy or not, you have to recognize that the league makes a ton more money when they have large market or popular teams advance no?

Now anyone with an actual education knows that correlation does not equal causality... but it does make an educated person want to form hypothesis and test them. Investigate, or at least bring it to the attention of the world.

I am saying out and out the league plans who wins, I just think there are too many coincidences going on here with bad calls. There is undoubtedly some major correlation going on.

The business argument makes the most sense to me, and we all know businessmen are not well known for their ethics. I hypothesize that the league simply makes it well known what the best scenarios are, and the instructions are in the absolute worst case scenario where a call is as close as possible, error on the side of profit. Is that really such a far-fetched scenario?

I also feel like there are times, and this is apparent both in series as well as in games, that the whistles are put away to allow more competition. I think that this correlation of not making calls on teams that are too far behind happens enough to suggest the league knows the power of officiating, and how it can be used to make the product better. That is to say, affect the course of the game for a more dramatic form.

Do they get in a room and say, we are going to steal games 2 and 5 for this team? No way, because that would ruin the sport faster than anything. However, if the league knows what is best, and the refs do as well, they can without saying a word make the close calls go one way. Really it can be as little as one call that changes the entire game or series. I could site many games. We all know about Homer, we all know about the Pens, we all know about Chicago and Nashville. It happens to many more teams as well.

Conspiracy or not, that has to be happening. It just seems to happen far too often. I also think we should recognize that is has happened in our favor over the years as well. The NHL is run clean 99% of the time, and they make mistakes like humans do. Combine the two and you have a great tapestry of mistakes, and an indistinguishable duo of frustrating failure. This leaves many fans crying conspiracy, and a much greater number crying prove it.

No one can, unless someone speaks up. Conspiracy or no, we have to deal with these bad calls. I just use my education to suggest that their are correlations we should investigate.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Hold on now....The rule states A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who kicks a puck that deflects into the net off any player, goalkeeper or official. but its ok to be kicked towards the goalpost and then it goes in?

Not saying it can, But I am not saying it can't. But you interpret the rule the same as I do.

There is no stipulation saying it can't be deflected off the goal post or piece of lost equipment

laying on the ice. The puck clearly was NOT kicked INTO the goal. It was kicked tho.....

In some situations I wish the officials in all sports had to be held accountable for their actions to the fan base.

Explain how, what, and why.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

I am saying out and out the league plans who wins, I just think there are too many coincidences going on here with bad calls. There is undoubtedly some major correlation going on.

We will see tonight. With Chicago on the bubble of sorts... Lets see what kind of crap happends.