4/8 GDT: Blackhawks 4 at Red Wings 2

[aMonster 96]

Well if that's the case, you guys better destroy them

I guess what pisses me off the most is that most of these players are getting millions of dollars to put on a show and they are hosing the fans who spend their hard earned money to see them. For crying out loud, play to win all the time. I wonder how they'd feel if the fans didn't care and there was a half-assed full arena since they are playing half-assed.

I think a quick five game dispatching of the Hawks in round 1 would be a very tasty prospect for the Canucks, and definitely the players want that chance.

From Detroits perspective, they has already clinched and winning both games against the Hawks wouldn't change anything for them. On the other hand, letting up a little on Chicago could sure put Detroit's Vancouver rivals through some emotional challenges if Chicago held on to 8th spot. What happened unfortunately is Chicago was hugely motivated to get a ticket to the dance and by the time Detroit realized they didn't have to start the game a little relaxed, it was too late to pick up their pace and they got spanked by Chicago.

Like I said, Detroit is NOT going to lose their last game to Chicago!

[wings_fanatic 677]

Yah, 2009's was worse and yet they came within 1 win of the Stanley Cup that year. As soon as the playoffs began, the team flipped the switch... I don't care what anyone says that much is obvious. You don't go from having a 2.91 Goals against average a game in the regular season, to a 2.14 goals against average in the playoffs without some kind of switch that was flipped mentally. This is a veteran team, full of players who are capable of elevating their game when they have to, and they seem to do so every year in the playoffs.

The thing I am angry about is Babcock's continued need to waste Pavel's time with Franzen... I have and always will hate those 2 together... I would be all for Modano playing with Pavs or reunite Cleary- Pavs- Hudler... The only other problem I have is not playing Lidstrom and Rafi together. It is no coincidence that the TERRIBLE team defense began this year; the first year where they almost never play together.

[evil204 4]

Yeah, and as a result, we're sitting in an absolutely horrible position and might not make the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs, we definitely won't have home ice, as there's no way we'll win the division.

Babcock sucks.

I just said I'm NOT blaming Babcock.

r-tard

[Firehawk 305]

Here's the defensive rank with goals allowed/game and offensive rank and goals per game scored, comparison.

YEAR // Def Rank & GA/G // OFF Rank & G/G

1997-1998: 7th 2.39 // 2nd 3.05 won the cup

1998-1999: 10th 2.46 // 3rd 2.99

1999-2000: 11th 2.56 // 2nd 3.39

2000-2001: 8th 2.46 // 5th 3.08

2001-2002: 4th 2.28 // 2nd 3.06 won the cup

2002-2003: 8th 2.48 // 1st 3.28

2003-2004: 9th 2.30 // 2nd 3.11

2005-2006: 3rd 2.51 // 2nd 3.67

2006-2007: 2nd 2.33 // 10th 3.07

2007-2008: 1st 2.18 // 3rd 3.07 won the cup

2008-2009: 21st 2.93 // 1st 3.52

2009-2010: 7th 2.52 // 14th 2.72

2010-2011: 23rd 2.89 // 2nd 3.12

As you can see, having a fantastic offense as we have in all but maybe 2 of the past 12 years means s***. It's about defense. And, we don't have it this year.

Yah, 2009's was worse and yet they came within 1 win of the Stanley Cup that year. As soon as the playoffs began, the team flipped the switch... I don't care what anyone says that much is obvious. You don't go from having a 2.91 Goals against average a game in the regular season, to a 2.14 goals against average in the playoffs without some kind of switch that was flipped mentally. This is a veteran team, full of players who are capable of elevating their game when they have to, and they seem to do so every year in the playoffs.

The thing I am angry about is Babcock's continued need to waste Pavel's time with Franzen... I have and always will hate those 2 together... I would be all for Modano playing with Pavs or reunite Cleary- Pavs- Hudler... The only other problem I have is not playing Lidstrom and Rafi together. It is no coincidence that the TERRIBLE team defense began this year; the first year where they almost never play together.

And Lidstrom was 2 years younger, and we had other much better defensemen than we do now. You're nuts man. The wings were banged up all year last year and were still 7th in the league in defense.

We aren't going ANYWHERE this year. Lidstrom has looked very human lately. He's been getting beat and this never happened in previous years. With him goes our defense in my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope you're right, but I just don't see it, not this year. This lackluster performance problem has been going on far too many games now for it to just be a lack of motivation until the playoffs.

Again, I really hope I'm wrong.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Firehawk

[edicius 3,269]

Agreed. They lost what, like four of their first 20 games?

There's a difference between fans of the Red Wings and fans of most other teams. For fans of most teams, all that matters is that the team gets a win. Many fans here, by contrast, are only satisfied if the Wings not only win, but also control the game. I think it is unreasonable.

I'll say it again - 3+ goals against in 59.2% of their games.

Let's compare that to, say, the Islanders. In 62% of their games, they've given up 3+ goals.

Yeah, we're fine going into the playoffs. Just flip that magical switch.

[Vladifan 680]

I think a quick five game dispatching of the Hawks in round 1 would be a very tasty prospect for the Canucks, and definitely the players want that chance.

From Detroits perspective, they has already clinched and winning both games against the Hawks wouldn't change anything for them. On the other hand, letting up a little on Chicago could sure put Detroit's Vancouver rivals through some emotional challenges if Chicago held on to 8th spot. What happened unfortunately is Chicago was hugely motivated to get a ticket to the dance and by the time Detroit realized they didn't have to start the game a little relaxed, it was too late to pick up their pace and they got spanked by Chicago.

Like I said, Detroit is NOT going to lose their last game to Chicago!

I like you, agree with you and I hope you come visit often.

[wings_fanatic 677]

We had better Dmen 2 years ago!? I would love to know how you can justify that one... We had Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stu, Ericson and LEBDA! We now have Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stu, Ericson, Salai/ Kindl.

If you ask me, I would say our D is better now than it was then. Kronwall is a much better Dman than he was 2 years ago, and he is going to be a big part of the playoffs for the Wings imo. Also, you seem to forget that the Wings have been battling injuries all year this year too, just like last year. The difference is that Howard sucked big time from about early December to just recently when he started playing better... You are overreacting my friend... the Wings will be fine and, while Nick may be 40 years old, he too gets tired of the regular season and he too will kick it into another gear come playoffs... he has done so for 20 years...

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

We had better Dmen 2 years ago!? I would love to know how you can justify that one... We had Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stu, Ericson and LEBDA! We now have Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stu, Ericson, Salai/ Kindl.

If you ask me, I would say our D is better now than it was then. Kronwall is a much better Dman than he was 2 years ago, and he is going to be a big part of the playoffs for the Wings imo. Also, you seem to forget that the Wings have been battling injuries all year this year too, just like last year. The difference is that Howard sucked big time from about early December to just recently when he started playing better... You are overreacting my friend... the Wings will be fine and, while Nick may be 40 years old, he too gets tired of the regular season and he too will kick it into another gear come playoffs... he has done so for 20 years...

You're wrong.

All those players were much better in 2008/2009 than they are now. Kronwall was a beast in those 2008 playoffs, and I thought he'd continue that after the postseason was over. He hasn't. Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart are a bit older now, and not as good, especially in their own zone.

More importantly, the team defense and chemistry was better then. This season, it's been a nightmare and the pairings have been terrible.

Lastly, Lilja and Lebda played well together in those playoffs. Ericsson and Salei haven't shown any consistency at all this season.

Edited April 9, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[wings_fanatic 677]

You are mixed up my friend. Kronwall was a beast in the 2008 playoffs... the year the Wings won the Cup. In the 2009 playoffs he was quite a disappointment as he did not hit as much, and turned the puck over far too much. Also, Lilja and Lebda played together in the 2008 playoffs... Lilja did not play the 2009 playoffs because of the concussion he had.

Furthermore, Lidstrom is playing very well still, no one can deny that he is the core of this team, and can still shut anyone down on any given night, and still produce huge points. Rafi almost averages a point per game this year, and Kronners has been a great all around Dman this year. I think the Dmen are better on this team then the 2009 team, and you are getting mixed up with our Cup run in 2008 and the year they lost in 2009...

I will, however, agree with you about the pairings. I have stressed this all season... Babcock needs to quit being a god damn hard head and put together Lidstrom an Rafalski, and then Kronners and Stu... Those 2 pairings ALWAYS work very well.

[aMonster 96]

I like you, agree with you and I hope you come visit often.

Thanks Vlad, as much as I'd love to plug the Canucks fan forum, I can safely say after lurking around here for year that it is only second best next to Detroit's.

[Firehawk 305]

You are mixed up my friend. Kronwall was a beast in the 2008 playoffs... the year the Wings won the Cup. In the 2009 playoffs he was quite a disappointment as he did not hit as much, and turned the puck over far too much. Also, Lilja and Lebda played together in the 2008 playoffs... Lilja did not play the 2009 playoffs because of the concussion he had.

Furthermore, Lidstrom is playing very well still, no one can deny that he is the core of this team, and can still shut anyone down on any given night, and still produce huge points. Rafi almost averages a point per game this year, and Kronners has been a great all around Dman this year. I think the Dmen are better on this team then the 2009 team, and you are getting mixed up with our Cup run in 2008 and the year they lost in 2009...

I will, however, agree with you about the pairings. I have stressed this all season... Babcock needs to quit being a god damn hard head and put together Lidstrom an Rafalski, and then Kronners and Stu... Those 2 pairings ALWAYS work very well.

So please again explain why we are 23rd in defense this year if we have an older but yet better defense? Offense not working hard enough on the defensive end? Because if you say it's team work ethic, it disproves exactly what you just stated to back your point up. The defense has not been there to clear rebounds. Ericcson forgets he plays defense 3 times a game and leaves players WIDE OPEN regularly. Lately lidstrom has been getting just plain beat. Kronwall has been 'ok' but I don't think spectacular. Raffy has been injured significant numbers of games this year, and is now injury prone. I think he plays with constant nagging injuries at this point. Our good defensemen are all substantially aging!

We have been injured some this season but nowhere near what we were last season when 10 starters were out for a long period. Where did we have that kind of injury bug going on this year? I just don't buy it.

It's rather amazing how we see this thing on completely different ends of the spectrum...really.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Firehawk

[wings_fanatic 677]

I love how negative you are... Where were the injuries this year? Modano, Datsyuk, Cleary, Filpulla, Stuart, Osgood, Homer were all out for a significant duration in late december, early january. Losing a guy like Pavs especially would hurt the stats of any team... especailly with all those other players going out too. Yes, the Wings play has been inconsistent this year, but so too has that happened in other years, such as 2009 where they were also TERRIBLE defensively, but amazing offensively.

Come playoff time, the Wings will be fine and when they are doing good, you will be one of the first one's on here preaching about how good they are.

[Firehawk 305]

I love how negative you are... Where were the injuries this year? Modano, Datsyuk, Cleary, Filpulla, Stuart, Osgood, Homer were all out for a significant duration in late december, early january. Losing a guy like Pavs especially would hurt the stats of any team... especailly with all those other players going out too. Yes, the Wings play has been inconsistent this year, but so too has that happened in other years, such as 2009 where they were also TERRIBLE defensively, but amazing offensively.

Come playoff time, the Wings will be fine and when they are doing good, you will be one of the first one's on here preaching about how good they are.

My reasons for being negative are valid.

We will agree to disagree I suppose.

But I will tell you one thing, if the wings do well in the playoffs, I am a stand-up person and will definitely be here stating I was harping heavily on them at the end of the season but they have shown me otherwise.

Hell, even if I feel the refs cost them a series but they play well, I will STILL come here and state I was wrong, because I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. We'll see if you're man enough to admit if the wings decide to continue this nuttieness into the playoffs and get bounced because of it, that you were wrong.

And, for the billionth time, I will say it again: I HOPE I AM WRONG!!!!!!! I HOPE MY TEAM THAT I LOVE DOES WELL!!!!

I'm just calling it as I see it.

I'll end this post by saying I am very happy we have the wings, because it has been a great run, and I hope it continues.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Firehawk

[wings_fanatic 677]

Lmao. No, I too will admit I am wrong if that is the case-- but this team can be stubborn for parts of regular seasons and gets so many people questioning them headed into the playoffs. Like Mick said last night, maybe it is a good thing for them to head into the playoffs sort of underated as they will feel no pressure to win. But time will tell I suppose.

I don't think there is a team in the league that is as good as they are at turning their fans against eachother in debates lmao... because for their level of talent you would think that would never be able to happen. I guess it is good though that we can debate because in the end it shows the luv we have for our team in Red and White.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

With all the team defense comparisons, nobody seems to have mentioned the Wings have had a different goalie the past two years. Yes the core defense has remained intact, yet a few years longer in the tooth and obviously not as effective. Osgood always took alot of heat during the season (I'll admit from myself sometimes) but came through in the playoffs several times (was great in 2009 even though we didn't win). We'll see if Howard can improve on his playoff performance from last year....without any excuses of poor team defense...cheering for him, but have my doubts...

[wings_fanatic 677]

I agree with the poster above... this is a big playoffs for Jimmy Howard imo. Last year he was very inconsistent in the playoffs and let in some bad goals, however it was his first playoffs ever so that does happen. SO, this is a chance for him to settle in and show us what he can do for the Wings and I hope he can make the right saves for the boys to win. However, if he has a performance anything less than what an average goalie would do, I suspect that there could be changes brought about.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

You are mixed up my friend. Kronwall was a beast in the 2008 playoffs... the year the Wings won the Cup. In the 2009 playoffs he was quite a disappointment as he did not hit as much, and turned the puck over far too much. Also, Lilja and Lebda played together in the 2008 playoffs... Lilja did not play the 2009 playoffs because of the concussion he had.

Furthermore, Lidstrom is playing very well still, no one can deny that he is the core of this team, and can still shut anyone down on any given night, and still produce huge points. Rafi almost averages a point per game this year, and Kronners has been a great all around Dman this year. I think the Dmen are better on this team then the 2009 team, and you are getting mixed up with our Cup run in 2008 and the year they lost in 2009...

I will, however, agree with you about the pairings. I have stressed this all season... Babcock needs to quit being a god damn hard head and put together Lidstrom an Rafalski, and then Kronners and Stu... Those 2 pairings ALWAYS work very well.

You're right, I was thinking more of 2008.

However, our defense in 2009 was still better than this one. The chemistry was better and we didn't have this many breakdowns and humiliating performances in the regular season. I still think the top 4 D-men were better in 2009 than they are now.

[Guest Crymson]

So you guys honestly are not worried in the slightest? Or let me rephrase a bit more fairly: You guys are not worried any more than usual this time of year going into the playoffs?

Because, i find that very hard to believe. Look at the defensive ranking for the wings over the last 10 years. This is the worst defensively they have been in a very long time.

I understand that I have no control over how the Wings play, besides the tiny boost I may be able to contribute by supporting them.

I will agree that sometimes fans around here go a little nuts, even when they win if they don't win by dominating, it isn't that exciting. First I think that's not really the truth but, more importantly, with winning comes expectation. The wings have been the premier NHL team for 20 years. So, naturally, there will be the highest expectations all the time. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand winning sports teams.

You act as if we have no control over the expectations we hold.