Lidstrom nominated for Norris

[Z and D for the C 712]

I picked Weber. Sorry, Lidstrom hasn't been as gooddefensively this year. His - +/- this year isn't a coincidence. Weber scored as many goals and would have likely had as many assists if his team were as good offensively as us. It's time to take the homer goggles off.

[RedWingsRox 614]

Congrats to Lidstrom. Was surprised about Chara as nominee ... Yandle and Vishnovsky got robbed.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I picked Weber. Sorry, Lidstrom hasn't been as gooddefensively this year. His - +/- this year isn't a coincidence. Weber scored as many goals and would have likely had as many assists if his team were as good offensively as us. It's time to take the homer goggles off.

And I'm sorry but we had very very suspect goaltending this year whilst Weber had a Vezina candidate. Those statistics are a lot closer related than those are willing to admit. Nick should win it, but it certainly will be a lot closer than most years.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Don't have the particular statistic, but there is also one showing that of the 3, Nick is on the ice against much more quality competition as well. At 40, he is still the standard for the position. +/- is such a buzz statistic but really we have to weigh other stats as well. Would Weber have that many more assists just because he is on the Wings? I mean, we are talking about Nick Lidstrom here. Let's take it easy, I think people are warranted to have a little bit of homer goggles on.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

They just need to rename it the "Lidstrom Trophy" and be done with it.

[wingnut40 176]

If Nick doesn't win the Norris this year ALL because of plus/minus I'm going to FLIP A LID!!!

I'm sorry, but at 40 years old still being able to play just as well as guys half his age is phenomenal. He deserves it and needs to win it.

[wings1110 184]

idk his plus minus is awful.

If Nick doesn't win the Norris this year ALL because of plus/minus I'm going to FLIP A LID!!!

I'm sorry, but at 40 years old still being able to play just as well as guys half his age is phenomenal. He deserves it and needs to win it.

ide settle for a conn smythe

[dat's sick 1,002]

The Norris more than any other trophy is prone to favor guys that have been good over a long period of time, which is why first-time nominees (Weber) rarely win and some guys get nominated on old merits (Chara) and guys that suddenly have a great season (Visnovsky) rarely get nominated.

I think Lids will win this. That's just what I think. I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed if Weber won it though. Lids has done something amazing to have a season like this at his age. Just getting nominated this year is a victory for him. If his +/- was just a little better he'd get his 7th Norris with a landslide win.

[Konnan511 1,736]

If we had a goalie that was top 3 on GAA and SV%, Lidstrom would have had a much much higher +/-. Instead, we had a goalie who ranked 34th in GAA and 31st in SV%. Our team ranked 19th in SV% and 23rd in GAA while NSH ranked 3rd in both GAA and SV%.

A more consistent goalie like Rinne would have rendered Lidstrom with a substantially higher +/-, but facts are facts and our starting goalie was god awful during the regular season.

[eva unit zero 271]

I just am perplexed by Yandle and Vishnovsky being snubbed for Chara. I get Weber and Lids, but not Chara.

I have to say now that it should finish Lids Weber Chara in that order.

Go get Weber in the offseason Holland, who cares about the compensation.

I would have ranked Visnovsky behind (in no order) Lidstrom, Weber, Enstrom, Chara, Ehrhoff, Edler, Letang, Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Rafalski, Kronwall, Yandle, and a bunch of others. Being able to get the puck to a stacked line and to join an offensive rush well does not make you a top defenseman. If Visnovsky were Canadian, of course, he'd win the Norris this year.

[Opie 308]

Don't have the particular statistic, but there is also one showing that of the 3, Nick is on the ice against much more quality competition as well. At 40, he is still the standard for the position. +/- is such a buzz statistic but really we have to weigh other stats as well. Would Weber have that many more assists just because he is on the Wings? I mean, we are talking about Nick Lidstrom here. Let's take it easy, I think people are warranted to have a little bit of homer goggles on.

This:

Linky

[LeftWinger 4,961]

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=560924

IMHO this one goes to Lidström (no homer)

+33 is hard to ignore from Chara, but as we all know, a high +/- doesn't really mean crap when it comes to the Norris (Konstantinov 1997.) I am surprised Chara had that many less points than Nick. I am also surprised that Visnovsky didn't make the top 3, 68 points +18, he is about the only one who would deserve it over Lidstrom just going by points and +/-. But too bad for Lubby, IMO Lidstrom SHOULD get it, but I have a feeling Weber will...

Edited April 25, 2011 by LeftWinger

[BigWillieStyle 662]

I think that Nick will take this one home, and then it will be renamed The Shea Weber Trophy for the next 5-10 years. That's why Kenny needs to go all in to get him to Detroit.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Surprised Visnovsky didn't make it, but Chara does have a lot of star power, despite not putting up great stats this year.

I just hope they don't hold s***ty goaltending from Howard against Lidstrom, with his plus/minus being so low and all. Chara had Thomas and Weber had Rinne. Two Vezina trophy finalists which had amazing years. That influences plus/minus more than anything.

And we know Lidstrom had a much better year points wise than Weber(who shoots 100 shots per game) and Chara.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Chara has who behind him? ohh that's right.... Tim Thomas.

[Theophany 110]

How the hell are people shocked that Visnovsky and Yandle didn't make it when it took Mike Green 30+ goals to make it?

Something in common with all three of the names I've listed: all played ~0:30 of PK time per game.

Lidstrom takes this if there's any justice in the world. Writers who vote for Weber or Chara do so because they compare this year of Lidstrom's to past years he's had and say "well, he's clearly taken a step backwards."

Lidtsrom at 90% is still at least 5% better than every other defenseman in the league.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

wow, these are shockers... I can't believe Visnovski got snubbed with the year he had... imo, I think the nominees should have been Lidstrom, Weber, Visnovski and even though I think Nick had an amazing year, I think Visnovski deserved it this season...

Chara had a good year, but does not deserve this, this season...

Visnovski was tenth among the defensemen on team in short handed time on ice per game (26 sec/game). And he was first on among his team's D in turnovers with 45. That's actually a pretty respectable number.

Chara had 62 turnovers this season (16th highest among defensemen in the league) while Weber had 51 (tied for 42nd). Nick only had 33 give-aways (tied for 110th).

As far as short-handed time on ice per game goes... Nick had 2:40/game, Chara had 2:48/game and Weber had 2:06/game.

The Norris is specifically worded such that voters are told to pick the "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position".

Given that Visnovski was his team's last choice for PK duty in a given game (10th among Ducks defensemen, only 26 seconds a game) I don't think he can rightly be given the trophy. It's the same situation as Mike Green's earlier nominations aside from the fact that Green's defensive play at that time was much worse than Vis' was this year.

and then it will be renamed The Shea Weber Trophy for the next 5-10 years.

Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty would disagree.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Surprised Visnovsky didn't make it, but Chara does have a lot of star power, despite not putting up great stats this year.

I just hope they don't hold s***ty goaltending from Howard against Lidstrom, with his plus/minus being so low and all. Chara had Thomas and Weber had Rinne. Two Vezina trophy finalists which had amazing years. That influences plus/minus more than anything.

And we know Lidstrom had a much better year points wise than Weber(who shoots 100 shots per game) and Chara.

Lol, that was what I was trying to say...in the nice way haha.

[Barrie 900]

Gotta love it, I was the 81st vote in this poll, and the 72nd person to vote for Lidstrom. Lidstrom is running away with it, on a Red Wings message board.

Seriously though, out of those 3, Nick should take it.

[sputman 1,268]

ah, my favorite movie of all time.

there's a ton of respect on this site for weber (add me to that list). i get the impression that we all wouldn't mind seeing him as a wing, unlikely as it is (unless we wait until he's in his 40s).

i think plus/minus aside, the amount of talent that lidstrom continues to show at the age of 41 is more impressive than any of the other players on that list, and is really telling of his overall skills as a d-man.

[eva unit zero 271]

+33 is hard to ignore from Chara, but as we all know, a high +/- doesn't really mean crap when it comes to the Norris (Konstantinov 1997.) I am surprised Chara had that many less points than Nick. I am also surprised that Visnovsky didn't make the top 3, 68 points +18, he is about the only one who would deserve it over Lidstrom just going by points and +/-. But too bad for Lubby, IMO Lidstrom SHOULD get it, but I have a feeling Weber will...

Let's compare Visnovsky to our own beloved veteran defenseman.

Visnovsky: 81 GP, 18-50-68, +18

Rafalski: 63 GP, 4-44-48, +11

You thought I was talking about Lidstrom?

Well, assuming Rafalski keeps that pace for another 18 games, he would end up as:

81 GP, 5-57-62, +14

Pretty close numbers to Visnovsky's, and better numbers than Lidstrom's or Yandle's. Those numbers would put Raffi square in the top five for Norris voting. Lidstrom, Chara, Visnovsky, Carle, Ehrhoff, Letang, Yandle. Weber's numbers aren't even close; so the Norris being decided simply on stats should not be a question this year.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Lol, that was what I was trying to say...in the nice way haha.

No reason to be subtle around here, especially if you have something honest to say about a particular topic.

[dobbles 252]

the thing about +/- is it has to be taken in perspective. and so far, i think people are missing the mark in a big way. there have been multiple posts about how the bruins have thomas and the wings had howard who was sub par. however, thats not the perspective thats important. you have to look at their ratings in contrast to teammates to get a much better portrayal.

chara led the bruins entire team. so while most of their team was positive thanks to their 2nd in the league +51 goal differential, chara was still the best in that regard. conversely, nick was last out of the top 6 wings D. only kindl and janik were worse and janik basically doesn't count at all. and as said, kindl still is the 7th dman and played only 48 games, so hes not exactly a good comparison.

here is the good news IMO: weber is the main competition, and he suffers from a similar situation. he is behind several defensemen teammates at a more pedestrian +7. i still think it will be a big hurdle to overcome in many voters minds, but if it really is a 2 man race like most think it is, that helps minimize the effect of the bad +/-.

[Electrophile 3,554]

As long as Nick is nominated, Nick will win. Anytime he's nominated, it's his to lose, rather than his to win. This year is no exception, IMO. Bring on Orr.

[sandyeggo wingnut 19]

As long as Nick is nominated, Nick will win. Anytime he's nominated, it's his to lose, rather than his to win. This year is no exception, IMO. Bring on Orr.

I always thought the votes are already in and they're just announcing the top three vote getters...IOW these aren't nominations,so it's not his to win or lose at this point.

I digress. I think lids has a 60/40 shot at it...for the same reasons everyone else said: dumbases pit more stock in +/- than they should. Anyone know how many pluses and or minuses were "awarded" because he just happened to get on the ice during a change right before a score? There's gotta be a couple in there...