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Explain This To Me?!?!


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#1 L3T5G0W1NG5

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:16 PM

In the NHL, when a player gets a penalty for diving, the other player gets a penalty as well. Sometimes they both deserve a penalty, but a lot of the time only the diver deserves the penalty.

For example, yesterday in the Chicago vs Vancouver game at the end of the 2nd period Sedin gave the goalie a little cross check. The Chicago defense man (Campbell) gave Sedin a little cross check back (barely enough to move a player) and Sedin dove BIG TIME. I think that only Sedin deserves a penalty, not both of them. The cross check wasn't hard AT ALL so why even give him a penalty to begin with?

Has anyone ever seen only 1 penalty called, for diving? I haven't...

#2 Konnan511

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:22 PM

I wasn't speeding, I was only speeding a little bit, I shouldn't get in trouble.

Barely a crosscheck is still a crosscheck.

I mean, this is a brutal crosscheck that nearly stops Sedin's heart.

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#3 Mabuhay Red Wings

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:26 PM

Ahh the Swedish stereotypes are alive and well.

#4 Grayne Wetzky

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:28 PM

ha ha ha ha ha

I wouldn't even call that a "Shove", much less a cross-check. He pushed him with one of his gloves. It's hilarious.


I wasn't speeding, I was only speeding a little bit, I shouldn't get in trouble.

Barely a crosscheck is still a crosscheck.

I mean, this is a brutal crosscheck that nearly stops Sedin's heart.

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#5 L3T5G0W1NG5

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:29 PM

After seeing that GIF, it wasn't even a cross check; just a nudge. Definitely not enough to warrant a penalty.

#6 Konnan511

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:29 PM

ha ha ha ha ha

I wouldn't even call that a "Shove", much less a cross-check. He pushed him with one of his gloves. It's hilarious.




It's not funny. he almost killed Sedin. Look how he clutches his heart on the ice to make sure he was still alive, scary stuff.
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#7 eva unit zero

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:36 PM

Ok. So when a player dives, it is rare for him to dive without his opponent to have committed a penalty; at least as far as the rulebook is concerned. So if the referee sees what he considers a dive, and is going to call it, he almost certainly saw what led to the dive, and will be calling that as well.

In your example, Campbell cross checked Sedin and Sedin dove. Cross checking is one of the more obvious penalties, if not the most obvious. I mean...both hands on the stick, hitting the guy with your stick...pretty hard to plead "not guilty" to that one. The only things wrong with the play were, assuming your account is exactly accurate (I didn't see the play) are the ref not calling Sedin for a cross-check (or GI if you prefer), and the fact that Sedin was too obvious in his dive.

It's likely the ref didn't see Sedin's bump on Crawford, but he did see the rest and that led to coincidental minors. I'm assuming Vancouver had the puck, or the whistle would have been blown dead on Campbell's crosscheck. So Vancouver has the puck, Sedin bumps Crawford, and Campbell hits Sedin. If the ref sees Sedin and calls him for that, we still end up with coincidental minors; just no dive this time.

EDIT: Upon Seeing the GIF posted above, I'd say Campbell should have been called for roughing rather than a cross check; although a cross check is arguable. Also, it looks like Sedin's right skate gets caught on or in something. Plus, Campbell shoves Sedin into the crossbar. I have the benefit of instant replay, but that looks more like an awkward fall than a dive.

Edited by eva unit zero, 25 April 2011 - 06:42 PM.

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#8 VM1138

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:38 PM

[font="Book Antiqua"]Ok. So when a player dives, it is rare for him to dive without his opponent to have committed a penalty; at least as far as the rulebook is concerned. So if the referee sees what he considers a dive, and is going to call it, he almost certainly saw what led to the dive, and will be calling that as well.

In your example, Campbell cross checked Sedin and Sedin dove. Cross checking is one of the more obvious penalties, if not the most obvious. I mean...both hands on the stick, hitting the guy with your stick...pretty hard to plead "not guilty" to that one. The only things wrong with the play were, assuming your account is exactly accurate (I didn't see the play) are the ref not calling Sedin for a cross-check (or GI if you prefer), and the fact that Sedin was too obvious in his dive.




But the nature of most dives is that there's only incidental contact and they go down like they were shot.
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#9 Shoreline

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:45 PM

It was an obvious embellishment.

That being said if you look at, historically, how the NHL has functioned surrounding penalties, they selectively decide to call penalties, and like the hooking, holding, interference issue that plagued the league for several years before the lockout, it looks like they've decided to overlook almost every instance of diving.

Why are people treating it like this is law? That's why the NHL is a laughing stock over this headshot/blindside horse s***. They call penalties they feel like calling and don't call the ones they don't feel like calling. It's as simple as that. Any arguments with this?

Edited by Shoreline, 25 April 2011 - 06:47 PM.


#10 eva unit zero

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:51 PM

But the nature of most dives is that there's only incidental contact and they go down like they were shot.


The thing is, diving is any

Rule 64 - Diving / Embellishment 64.1 Diving / Embellishment Any player who blatantly dives, embellishes a fall or a reaction, or who feigns an injury shall be penalized with a minor penalty under this rule.

A goalkeeper who deliberately initiates contact with an attacking player other than to establish position in the crease, or who otherwise acts to create the appearance of other than incidental contact with an attacking player, is subject to the assessment of a minor penalty for diving / embellishment.



It doesn't say "Any player who dives trying to draw a penalty call where there shouldn't be one." People need to get the "Is it a penalty, or is it a dive?" attitude out of their brains because it can be both.
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#11 Toefuzz

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:54 PM

I remember Federov getting called for diving back when it was the popular call to make. He was great to watch at times... Oscar worthy even.

Edited b/c my phone has a retarded spell checker.

Edited by Toefuzz, 25 April 2011 - 06:55 PM.


#12 Shoreline

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:56 PM

I remember Federov getting called for diving back when it was the popular call to make. He was great to watch at times... Oscar worthy even.

Edited b/c my phone has a retarded spell checker.

Does it have a spell check for Fedorov too?

(sorry had to) :P

#13 Toefuzz

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:05 PM

Does it have a spell check for Fedorov too?

(sorry had to) :P

I would give you props but I'm on my phone. Stupid mobile version. You almost inspired me to reach over, pick up the laptop, turn it on, login to LGW, just so I could give you +1 but then I remembered I'm lazy :)

#14 Shoreline

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:18 PM

I would give you props but I'm on my phone. Stupid mobile version. You almost inspired me to reach over, pick up the laptop, turn it on, login to LGW, just so I could give you +1 but then I remembered I'm lazy :)

Don't worry I'm lazy too, but admittedly it used to irritate me (one of those pet peeves) how on these forums and another Red Wing forum I used to go to before this one, how many Red Wing fans misspelled a guy's name they saw and read almost every time they visited the forums.

And I bet more would be willing to "-" me for that post of mine above if the option were there. Not that I care though. :P

#15 Toefuzz

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:25 PM

Don't worry I'm lazy too, but admittedly it used to irritate me (one of those pet peeves) how on these forums and another Red Wing forum I used to go to before this one, how many Red Wing fans misspelled a guy's name they saw and read almost every time they visited the forums.

And I bet more would be willing to "-" me for that post of mine above if the option were there. Not that I care though. :P

No way! A well deserved correction deserves a plus, though in my defense it's been a few years since I watched him play :)

#16 Earthhuman

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:55 PM

Out of curiosity, is it considered a penalty to initiate contact after a play is blown dead?

#17 Shoreline

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:57 PM

Out of curiosity, is it considered a penalty to initiate contact after a play is blown dead?

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#18 Buppy

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:46 PM

I wasn't speeding, I was only speeding a little bit, I shouldn't get in trouble.

Barely a crosscheck is still a crosscheck.

I mean, this is a brutal crosscheck that nearly stops Sedin's heart.

Posted Image

So it's official. Even the refs don't know what cross-checking is. That wasn't.

"59.1 Cross-checking - The action of using the shaft of the stick between the two hands to forcefully check an opponent."

Roughing probably comes closest, if they had to call something. Maybe butt-ending if the refs really wanted to screw the Hawks. Mostly it was just a very flagrant dive during a pretty routine post-whistle shoving match.

The thing is, diving is any

"Rule 64 - Diving / Embellishment 64.1 Diving / Embellishment Any player who blatantly dives, embellishes a fall or a reaction, or who feigns an injury shall be penalized with a minor penalty under this rule.

A goalkeeper who deliberately initiates contact with an attacking player other than to establish position in the crease, or who otherwise acts to create the appearance of other than incidental contact with an attacking player, is subject to the assessment of a minor penalty for diving / embellishment."

It doesn't say "Any player who dives trying to draw a penalty call where there shouldn't be one." People need to get the "Is it a penalty, or is it a dive?" attitude out of their brains because it can be both.

Being a rule doesn't mean it isn't stupid. Personally, I think diving/embellishment should be a double-minor. PP against the diving team whether there's an original penalty or not. That (if actually enforced) would get rid of it.

#19 esteef

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:56 PM



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#20 Crymson

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:02 PM

In the NHL, when a player gets a penalty for diving, the other player gets a penalty as well. Sometimes they both deserve a penalty, but a lot of the time only the diver deserves the penalty.

For example, yesterday in the Chicago vs Vancouver game at the end of the 2nd period Sedin gave the goalie a little cross check. The Chicago defense man (Campbell) gave Sedin a little cross check back (barely enough to move a player) and Sedin dove BIG TIME. I think that only Sedin deserves a penalty, not both of them. The cross check wasn't hard AT ALL so why even give him a penalty to begin with?

Has anyone ever seen only 1 penalty called, for diving? I haven't...


I sure have!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_b48-GbMCM





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