(2) San Jose Sharks vs. (3) Detroit Red Wings

[Motown4013 350]

I love Hockey Chick Banter...Its the best Hard to find a savvy female hockey fan to duel with...and you make some solid points but let me add some depth to this conversation.

And you should go ahead and say it. Shout it from the rooftops. I'm saying nothing against Zetterberg who is an awesome player with great playoff stats for the past four years. No argument from me at all. Well seriously, how could ANYONE argue this. The guy is a machine in the playoffs...so that is a mute pointWell seriously, how could ANYONE argue this.

However, what I AM saying is that rolling out the same old tired cliches about "disappearing Joe" are not particularly valid right now. He had a great series against the Kings by anyone's standards. Anyone calling out Joe's play right now is showing laziness of thought and not paying attention to reality. Laziness of thought? Well, I will challenge that as well as my clear loss on reality, but numbers don't lie. What I see is that Thornton has FIVE points in six games, two of which went to OT. So, in 23 periods of hockey, his 5 points is, at the absolute best, an average number. Less points than Clowe...and tied with a rookie and Patty Marleau and Ian White...a third line D-Man, so he has not been "God like" here. Granted, he did score key goals at big times...but they guy gets PAID to about 8 million a year to perform at big times so I suppose I am confused about why this is a tremndous feat for him...its his job. THAT is the reality.

Let me tell you about this awesome player....he was a major league prospect and a high first-round draft pick, he had been the Captain of an Original 6 team, he averaged over a point per game in his career in the first 13 seasons, and his team was once the number one seed in the West only to lose a hearbreaking first round series to the lowly eighth seeded team. Everyone called him a choker 'cause he just couldn't get it done in the post-season and neither could the rest of his very talented team.

By the way, this player's name is Steve Yzerman.

Just so you are aware, before Yzerman won his first Cup, he had very little supporting cast. Just to play devils advocate...Thorton is surrounded by talent ad naseaum. The Sharks have a loaded team and for years, Stevie had Shawn Burr and Yves racine. In 97/98, when Stevie won the cup, they built a team around him- Federov, Shanny ect...before that, it is ridiculus to compare. Actually, its ridiculous to talk about Yzerman and Thornton in the same breath...Lets be honest- Thornton is a talented guy, but he is no Yzerman.

Then in his 14th season in the league, when he was 32 years old, Stevie Y finally won the Cup and everyone stopped calling him a big fat choker. He was neevr a choker. Yzerman has the drive and heart unlike anyone in sports...now THAT is a laziness of mind comment if I have ever heard one.

Joe Thornton is in his 14th NHL season and he will be 32 in July. Coincidence? Yeah, probably. But something for Wings fans to think about when the bandy the choker label around. I think Thornton is a great hockey player...I would imagine that, by now he is probably a better golfer, having a lot of experience on the links!

Wings in 6

[Guest stinky fish taco]

to say that stevie y didn't have a great supporting cast when the red wings were accused of "choking" is disingenuous at best and blatantly false at worst.

for the early years, sure - but who was accusing the team of choking then?

during the biggest playoff disappointment years (92-93 to 95-96) he was surrounded by a cast including: fedorov, lidstrom, konstantinov, coffey, kozlov, larionov, fetisov and ciccarelli.

that group includes a hart trophy, a selke trophy, and a norris trophy within that 4 year span.

[Konnan511 1,736]

to say that stevie y didn't have a great supporting cast when the red wings were accused of "choking" is disingenuous at best and blatantly false at worst.

for the early years, sure - but who was accusing the team of choking then?

during the biggest playoff disappointment years (92-93 to 95-96) he was surrounded by a cast including: fedorov, lidstrom, konstantinov, coffey, kozlov, larionov, fetisov and ciccarelli.

that group includes a hart trophy, a selke trophy, and a norris trophy within that 4 year span.

Yzerman also had 84 points in 93 games before our first Stanley Cup in many a fort-years.

Thornton has 65 in 91 games leading up to these playoffs.

Yzerman was not and has not ever been a choker. The numbers speak for themselves.

[xtrememachine1 795]

For us who don't get FSDetroit or live near San Jose, we won't be able to watch game 3, awesome.....

Yeah and here I was worried about being able to stay up late for the games in SJ and the first game in Detroit won't be televised. Joined in progress... I have to watch the Flyers and Bruins finish beating the hell out of each other before I can see the Wings game? Blah Come on NHL Network, pick this up!

[esteef 2,679]

For us who don't get FSDetroit or live near San Jose, we won't be able to watch game 3, awesome.....

There's always a stream provided by drumnj in the GDT. Touch base with him to set you up an account and your golden. That's how I watch Wings vs. Ducks games when it's blacked out where I live.

esteef

[mmamolo 287]

The travel issue is irrelevant, as it works both ways. All four teams will be traveling.

Well, in terms of the distance they travel it works out the same. But it definitely is tougher for the east coast team to start games at what would be 10 or 1030 pm when playing out west compared to west coast teams playing on the east coast and starting games at what would be 4 or 430 pm.

CBC would need game 1 to start tomorrow in order to have a game Saturday, Hockey Night in Canada. One could argue, why not have game 1 start Saturday?

That's just one of my guesses.

I heard that the NHL and the their TV deal wanted/needed a nationally televised game for Thursday night. Both NBC and CBC wanted their prime time slots filled as well. Philly/Bos at 3pm Sat, Det/SJ at 3pm Sun and then Was/TB at 7pm Sun for NBC to hit all of their possible major markets and obviously CBC wanted Vancouver on Saturday night and that's why they have an early start (9pm) despite being on the west coast.

So it was all based on the TV deals and the need for a nationally televised game tonight (Thursday) and then the rest of the weekend works out as it does because it just makes sense.

And you should go ahead and say it. Shout it from the rooftops. I'm saying nothing against Zetterberg who is an awesome player with great playoff stats for the past four years. No argument from me at all.

However, what I AM saying is that rolling out the same old tired cliches about "disappearing Joe" are not particularly valid right now. He had a great series against the Kings by anyone's standards. Anyone calling out Joe's play right now is showing laziness of thought and not paying attention to reality.

Let me tell you about this awesome player....he was a major league prospect and a high first-round draft pick, he had been the Captain of an Original 6 team, he averaged over a point per game in his career in the first 13 seasons, and his team was once the number one seed in the West only to lose a hearbreaking first round series to the lowly eighth seeded team. Everyone called him a choker 'cause he just couldn't get it done in the post-season and neither could the rest of his very talented team.

By the way, this player's name is Steve Yzerman.

Then in his 14th season in the league, when he was 32 years old, Stevie Y finally won the Cup and everyone stopped calling him a big fat choker.

Joe Thornton is in his 14th NHL season and he will be 32 in July. Coincidence? Yeah, probably. But something for Wings fans to think about when the bandy the choker label around.

Joe Thornton's numbers in the playoffs are fine. No one is arguing that. But he absolutely has disappeared in big games when it matters. From the NHL playoffs to the Olympics he has absolutely disappeared. Also, making the comparison to Yzerman is way off base. Yzerman took a struggling Wings franchise and made them relevant again in a gradual/progessive manner. Thornton, in many people's eyes, plateaud and just hasn't been able to get to the next level in those big games.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

Very interesting to see most the NHL media predictions going in the Sharks favor for this series. Even last year it was more of a split looking at the media. I would have given them last year, but this year is completley different. Wings in 7. Calling my shot even futher, game 7 will be won by 3 goals, 1 on an empty net.

[matt198913 932]

Wings are going to win in 5. This is a much different team, Howard has another year under his belt, Hank and Mule are healthy. The only way that San Jose wins this series is if it turns into a 5 on 3 fest again. Ya hate to sound like a homer but thats just the way it is.

[WoopWoopDangleDangle 0]

The first real indication that the Sharks were shedding the choker label was last spring, when they built a 3-0 lead on the Red Wings in the conference semifinals, got their asses handed to them in Game 4, but still managed to close out the series in Game 5. Now, that maturation as a contender has continued, to the point where Joe Thornton(notes) — Joe Thornton! — is scoring clutch, series-winning goals.

But while the Sharks are learning to be a champion, the majority of this Red Wings roster has been one. They dispatched the Phoenix Coyotes with an assassin's resolve. They'll be rested. They'll be healthy. They'll be ready.

Leaning Towards … The Sharks. Niemi and Howard are a wash, and San Jose has more quality depth at forward than Detroit. This is a different Sharks team; dare I say a special one?

kinda bolded what i found funny

all we can ask for is a really good series

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

The first real indication that the Sharks were shedding the choker label was last spring, when they built a 3-0 lead on the Red Wings in the conference semifinals, got their asses handed to them in Game 4, but still managed to close out the series in Game 5. Now, that maturation as a contender has continued, to the point where Joe Thornton(notes) — Joe Thornton! — is scoring clutch, series-winning goals.

But while the Sharks are learning to be a champion, the majority of this Red Wings roster has been one. They dispatched the Phoenix Coyotes with an assassin's resolve. They'll be rested. They'll be healthy. They'll be ready.

Leaning Towards … The Sharks. Niemi and Howard are a wash, and San Jose has more quality depth at forward than Detroit. This is a different Sharks team; dare I say a special one?

kinda bolded what i found funny

all we can ask for is a really good series

Actually, looking at the Sharks last series, I wouldn't call Niemi and Howard a wash. The edge in Niemi v Howard in these first series definitley goes to Howard. San Jose needs him to be much better to have a shot. Wings need Howard to be as good or better to have a shot.

The other aspect of keeping goals out of our net is defense. Edge goes to the Wings. Not even close.

Power Kill- for the Wings needs to be much better, especially considering our many, many two player vacations to the box in last years series. (btw...how much did that end up costing the Sharks$$ and was it line itemed as "Bettman Ref Assurance Payment" in their FY2010 financials??...just curious...anyway)...

Forwards- I kind of have a slight change of angle from your opionion; yes, the Sharks may have more quality forwards, but collectively I believe some of our forwards are on a different planet when it comes to playing the playoff game and production (Dats, Z) and are as potent as the Sharks. The way our 4th line played the last series, I may even question your orginal statement of "more". I like the Wings chances and believe whatever the outcome, this will be a lot of fun.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

kinda bolded what i found funny

all we can ask for is a really good series

And what hilarious blogger wrote this?

[stuck in socal 56]

A shark fan just named some dman on their team like White, Demers, Vlasic, and called them clutch performers...

[WoopWoopDangleDangle 0]

And what hilarious blogger wrote this?

Puck Daddy via Yahoo

i find role players to be of as high quality as scorers

and this is true dats and hank can be on a completely different level when in the playoffs..id even throw franzen in there

[WoopWoopDangleDangle 0]

Actually, looking at the Sharks last series, I wouldn't call Niemi and Howard a wash. The edge in Niemi v Howard in these first series definitley goes to Howard. San Jose needs him to be much better to have a shot. Wings need Howard to be as good or better to have a shot.

The other aspect of keeping goals out of our net is defense. Edge goes to the Wings. Not even close.

Power Kill- for the Wings needs to be much better, especially considering our many, many two player vacations to the box in last years series. (btw...how much did that end up costing the Sharks$ and was it line itemed as "Bettman Ref Assurance Payment" in their FY2010 financials??...just curious...anyway)...

Forwards- I kind of have a slight change of angle from your opionion; yes, the Sharks may have more quality forwards, but collectively I believe some of our forwards are on a different planet when it comes to playing the playoff game and production (Dats, Z) and are as potent as the Sharks. The way our 4th line played the last series, I may even question your orginal statement of "more". I like the Wings chances and believe whatever the outcome, this will be a lot of fun.

hope you dont think i wrote that lol

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Complete Round 2 schedule:

Game 1: at San Jose, 10 p.m. Friday (FSD)

Game 2: at San Jose, 3 p.m. Sunday (NBC)

Game 3: at Detroit, 8 p.m. Wednesday (FSD)

Game 4: at Detroit, 7 p.m. May 6 (FSD)

Game 5*: at San Jose, 8 p.m. May 8 (FSD)

Game 6*: at Detroit, TBD, May 10 (FSD)

Game 7*: at San Jose, TBD, May 12 (FSD)

( *If necessary)

Already in OP, my bad Just going bats*** crazy waiting for this to start....

Edited April 28, 2011 by HankthaTank

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

hope you dont think i wrote that lol

ha ha...no I should have used "they' instead of you®.

[soonboomer 31]

i predict the sharks PP running above 30% for the series. not good for the wings.

I hope your predictions are as good this round as they were against the Yotes.

[soonboomer 31]

too bad soonboomer didn't have the balls to take the bet, huh?

was that an attmept at humor? it doesn't even make sense.

We didn't bet because I didn't want you to lose your 3 month old account name and come right back under a different one. You basically had nothing to lose. If you throw enough horse s*** against the side of a barn, some of it is likely to stick. Just like the accuracy of your insipid predictions.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

We didn't bet because I didn't want you to lose your 3 month old account name and come right back under a different one. You basically had nothing to lose. If you throw enough horse s*** against the side of a barn, some of it is likely to stick. Just like the accuracy of your insipid predictions.

He can keep it up seeing how the first one panned out

[Motown4013 350]

to say that stevie y didn't have a great supporting cast when the red wings were accused of "choking" is disingenuous at best and blatantly false at worst.

for the early years, sure - but who was accusing the team of choking then?

during the biggest playoff disappointment years (92-93 to 95-96) he was surrounded by a cast including: fedorov, lidstrom, konstantinov, coffey, kozlov, larionov, fetisov and ciccarelli.

that group includes a hart trophy, a selke trophy, and a norris trophy within that 4 year span.

If you re-read the post, I AM talking about the early years....why else would i mention Racine??????

[Motown4013 350]

Joe Thornton's numbers in the playoffs are fine. No one is arguing that. But he absolutely has disappeared in big games when it matters. From the NHL playoffs to the Olympics he has absolutely disappeared. Also, making the comparison to Yzerman is way off base. Yzerman took a struggling Wings franchise and made them relevant again in a gradual/progessive manner. Thornton, in many people's eyes, plateaud and just hasn't been able to get to the next level in those big games.

said much better than I! +1 to you sir

[Barrie 900]

Wings in 6.

I'm thinking the Sharks will regret diving, flipping, and flopping to draw penalties last year. I wouldn't be surprised if we win a couple games 6-1 to show them up.

If the Wings are as pissed as I still am from last year, this should be a fun series.

Wings are going to win in 5. This is a much different team, Howard has another year under his belt, Hank and Mule are healthy. The only way that San Jose wins this series is if it turns into a 5 on 3 fest again. Ya hate to sound like a homer but thats just the way it is.

I don't think you're to far off. We all know how the Sharks won last year.

[Guest stinky fish taco]

If you re-read the post, I AM talking about the early years....why else would i mention Racine??????

ok, then the whole thing is irrelevant then, because no one that knows anything about hockey would have considered the red wings "chokers" at any point before yzerman got a decent supporting cast.

you specifically said this:

Just so you are aware, before Yzerman won his first Cup, he had very little supporting cast.

which simply is not true.

Edited April 28, 2011 by stinky fish taco

[FabHckyBbe 2]

Actually, looking at the Sharks last series, I wouldn't call Niemi and Howard a wash. The edge in Niemi v Howard in these first series definitley goes to Howard. San Jose needs him to be much better to have a shot. Wings need Howard to be as good or better to have a shot.

I'd definitely call it more of a wash or even a slight edge to Niemi. Yes, Niemi was shaky at times against LA, and yeah, he got pulled twice, but he had been playing absolutely lights out for two solid months prior to the series. The Sharks were mired in 12th place in January riding a 6 game losing streak when Niemi went on a tear, going 24-4-0-5 between January 15 and April 4 and helping the Sharks climb from 12th place, last in the Pacific Division to 2nd in the West, third overall and first in the division. That's gotta count for something. Plus he won the Cup last year and has that experience to fall back on, something which Howard has yet to accomplish. So I'd lean it slightly more in Niemi's favor, if he can regain the form he had for the last two and a half months of the season.

The other aspect of keeping goals out of our net is defense. Edge goes to the Wings. Not even close.

Yeah, that's a gimme. You got Lidstrom. You win, hands down. We got Boyle, and while I love the guy, he was uncharacteristically BAD in the LA series. Major edge to the Wings.

Power Kill- for the Wings needs to be much better, especially considering our many, many two player vacations to the box in last years series. (btw...how much did that end up costing the Sharks$$ and was it line itemed as "Bettman Ref Assurance Payment" in their FY2010 financials??...just curious...anyway)...

Our PP hasn't been so great lately and the PK finally got in gear in game 6 after giving up a bunch to LA. I'm hoping they've got their special teams issues worked out before the series starts. Wash.

Forwards- I kind of have a slight change of angle from your opionion; yes, the Sharks may have more quality forwards, but collectively I believe some of our forwards are on a different planet when it comes to playing the playoff game and production (Dats, Z) and are as potent as the Sharks. The way our 4th line played the last series, I may even question your orginal statement of "more".

I'd pretty much agree with this statement, while the Sharks may have more quality forwards than the Wings, but the Wings "elite" forwards have more quality/playoff experience/intangibles. Your guys have been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and know what it takes to win it all. My guys are still learning. I'm hoping this is the year that all those lessons finally pay off. And our 4th line got very little ice time in the Kings series, that needs to change if we want to grind out a win against the Wings, we need all the oars in the water for this series and no passengers. Wash or slight edge to the Wings.

I like the Wings chances and believe whatever the outcome, this will be a lot of fun.

I can definitely agree with that last sentiment. Is it Friday, yet?

[Guest Save The Octopus]

The first real indication that the Sharks were shedding the choker label was last spring, when they built a 3-0 lead on the Red Wings in the conference semifinals, got their asses handed to them in Game 4, but still managed to close out the series in Game 5. Now, that maturation as a contender has continued, to the point where Joe Thornton(notes) — Joe Thornton! — is scoring clutch, series-winning goals goal.

But while the Sharks are learning to be a champion, the majority of this Red Wings roster has been one. They dispatched the Phoenix Coyotes with an assassin's resolve. They'll be rested. They'll be healthy. They'll be ready.

Leaning Towards … The Sharks. Niemi and Howard are a wash, and San Jose has more quality depth at forward than Detroit. This is a different Sharks team; dare I say a special one?

kinda bolded what i found funny

all we can ask for is a really good series

Fixed that for puck daddy. One goal and all of a sudden you are a clutch, series winner. I knew puck daddy was funny, but this one is a real knee slapper.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Save The Octopus