45 replies to this topic

[Doc Holliday]

McCrimmon ruined this team.

Babcock then proceeded to poke more holes in the sinking ship by keeping this team from having any drive, motivation, or adaptation to other team's playing styles.

[Klunzo]

I'll take the one with the Stanley Cup and Olympic gold please.

I will actually agree with Carman for once....isn't even a question.

[wingfan1991]

f*** McLellan wanna be Babcock... Hearing him talk is making me sick... He knows exactly what to say.

[Green Wing]

This year is the big question - if the Sharks get through and still f*** it up then forget about it. But I have a feeling that they might actually do something this year. And whether McLellan is better than Babcock or not, I think he was invaluable to the cup run 07/08. Also, I think McLellan's time here has meant he has Babcock's number.

McCrimmon and his s***ty coaching record of rubbish defense (Calgary/Atlanta) can get f***ed for all I care.

[Hockey Convert]

There's also the consideration that the coach is not the GM. The old saying goes that only a poor carpenter blames his tools, and there's some wisdom in that. However, I'm fairly sure that if you put the greatest carpenter in the world in a bare room with some boards and a rock only, he's not going to get veryf****** far either. Babcock has the tools he has, and can't change it. And I'm starting to get the sense more and more that he might want to. McClellan has the tools he has. I think both coaches are legit, and working out which is "better" is difficult at best given the variables involved.

The Wings have a lot of skill, I won't deny that; and I like most to all of our players. My point though: on the surface, in terms of a Cup fight, I might be forced to admit I'd rather have San Jose's toolkit on hand.

Edited by Hockey Convert, 01 May 2011 - 09:16 PM.

[Mabuhay Red Wings]

Babs always says that much of their defense is puck possession itself. In other words, offense. We've all heard a million times that if the Wings have the puck, the other team doesn't and that's the best defense of all. Therefore, perhaps whoever is in charge of the offense and designs plays on how to main possession, putting guys in the right spot to support the puck and whatnot should be held accountable. (Currently Walrus Mustache Paul MacLean).

McClellan was in charge of the offense. Thus, he was partially responsible for the Red Wings defense. This could partially explain why the defense was good when McClellan was here. Maybe the details in his offensive playbook helped the Wings play a puck possession style a little better than they do now.

[Dimaline312000]

I really don't think it's a coaching issue. Sure Babsy could change lines and maybe he will now but to me it looked like the Wings weren't even that impressive today. I liked Game 1's effort alot more than Game 2's. I go back to the old saying that the coach can coach all he wants but he can't lace up skates and play with the team, that's up to the players. I didn't see the same Wings that played the First round but I saw a team that looked like a regular season game where the Wings get behind and stay behind until abut the 3rd period and than they decide to wake up and play the game. A line-up change may be in order but I don't think it's the reason the Wings are down in this series. The Big Guns for Detroit need to start getting hot and after that I think the rest of the team will follow suit and that's how you win games and series in the playoffs is getting all players in on the offense getting the 3rd and 4th lines scoring is crucial but I think Dats, Z-Max and the Mule are going to need to creat some magic. Wings aren't out of this yet so let's not panic.

[Broken 16]

Players play the game. Babcock can't go out on the ice and physically put players into position to support each other. That takes a little determination and desire from the players and the Sharks are just doing it better right now. These guys have been playing puck possession for years. They don't need to be reminded every ten minutes to support each other, they just need to get off their asses and do it.

[Frozen-Man]

An Ex-Detroit coach is simply out coaching Detroit hands down. You cannot tell me this isn't the case. Babcock REFUSED to change his lineup after they were DEAD in game 1. Now we are in an 0-2 hole and on the brink of elimination. Refusing to change the lineup, not changing the lines during the game, and yet Babcock can be seen laughing on the Detroit bench. Is it just me or is it his time to go?

It's just you. It's funny how you can change words to make things sound different. Saying Babcock "REFUSED" to change his lineup is very different than saying Babcock "didn't change his lineup." Perhaps he thinks he is fielding the best team and perhaps he is. Perhaps he didn't "REFUSE" to change his lineup but rather no one in the inner circle thought they should change the lineup and therefore no one asked and he never refused to do anything. Also, "on the brink of elimination"? Really, the Sharks are only half way there and have only won at home (like the are supposed to do). Sure the Sharks are in the better position by far but making up that Babs "REFUSED" to change lineups and griping because he was seen laughing at one point is a pretty weak argument for replacing one of the most successful currently active coaches.

[esteef]

Players play the game. Babcock can't go out on the ice and physically put players into position to support each other. That takes a little determination and desire from the players and the Sharks are just doing it better right now. These guys have been playing puck possession for years. They don't need to be reminded every ten minutes to support each other, they just need to get off their asses and do it.

This.

esteef

[HankthaTank]

Threads like these make me wonder what the hell is wrong with this fanbase. Not even the general idea of the thread itself but some of these posts.... "Brink of elimination"

Babcock is the better coach. I tend to find it odd that people forget that yes, SJ beat us in 5 games but went onto get swept by the Hawks in the WCF. Does that mean Quenneville is the better coach of all 3? Not that much different of a question really.

[RedWingsRox]

Coaches need to be evaluated every year just like players. Sure coaches have achieved certain markers, trophies, Cups, Olympics, etc. But is Crawford a good coach, then? He's got a Cup. Since winning one, he hasn't done squat.

Babcock accomplished more as a coach than McLelland. But if you were to rate a coach based on his abilities to get the most out of his roster of players, right now, in round 2 of 2011 playoffs, I think you'd have to say the padawan is slightly out duelling the Master.

Edited by RedWingsRox, 02 May 2011 - 02:12 PM.

[El_Brian]

Im a Sharks fan and this thread is making me laugh my ass off.
Babcock and McLellan are two of the best coaches in the NHL.
BOTH OF THEM.

They arent rebuilding coaches, they arent mid level coaches.. they're coaches that use very high caliber talent to get the optimum result.
This has been proven on the RedWings side with a cup *grumble*
and on the Sharks side with the President's Trophy, and from 12th to 2nd this year.. and hopefully more to come.

Im sorry but I find this thread inane. The systems are VERY similar because they both developed them.
The caliber of talent on both sides is VERY similar because of the respect the Sharks/DW have for the Redwings/KH.
Players want to play for both these teams and coaches and over the last 5 years have been the pinnacle of the NHL.

Its more than coaching that wins, its everyone.

Now, all that being said.. atleast your coach can do this..



Those faces.. worth 3-5 wins, and a few whistles a season.

[RedWingsRox]

So both teams' system are equally good, both teams have high skilled/high end players, and both coaches are excellent. Then why is Detroit 1-6 so far (corrected) in the last 2 years of playoffs with the Sharks? Why isn't it 4-3 or 3-4, why is it so skewed? If it boils down to the lack of desire from the Wings players? Isn't it part of the coaches' job to get his team ready both in playing and mentally ready to go?

Edited by RedWingsRox, 02 May 2011 - 10:56 PM.

[El_Brian]

So both teams' system are equally good, both teams have high skilled/high end players, and both coaches are excellent. Then why is Detroit 6-1 (so far) in the last 2 years of playoffs with the Sharks? Why isn't it 4-3 or 3-4, why is it so skewed? If it boils down to the lack of desire from the Wings players? Isn't it part of the coaches' job to get his team ready both in playing and mentally ready to go?

I think you meant 1-6 in the Post Season(So Far), 1-3 these last regular season including 0-2 at The Joe.

"When you've been around like I have, and you've gone through it a number of times, you've got lots of experience to go back on," said Babcock. "Now, what does that mean really? It must just be hokey. But I remember being up 2-0 on Calgary [in 2007] and coming home 2-2. I remember being up 2-0 on Nashville [2008] and coming home 2-2. I remember being up 2-0 on Pittsburgh [2009] and losing Game 7. There's lots of hockey here. But we got to be better. I'm not taking anything away from San Jose, I think they've been good, I really do. They've played well and they've played hard. "But we can be better, so let's be better."

The Sharks get amped up to play the RedWings.. No doubt about it.. and I dont think its coaching or system.
Its execution of that system. I hate to say it but you'll never see the Sharks try to play harder than you will against the RedWings..
OK maybe against Chicago this past regular season (Revenge) ..

These two franchises while their rivalry is very young, is already storied.
I dont know too many Sharks fans that will ever forget the 93-94 playoffs.. Sharks knock Detroit out in Round 1, 7 game SHOCKER.
Jamie Baker with the game winner with 6 Mins left in the 3rd(?)

The next season the Red Wings come back, and destroy the Sharks in the season series and then sweeps them out of the playoffs also that year.

Sharks and Redwings are 2-2 in All-Time Post season records.

Its all execution of the system.
Sharks show up huge to play you guys, and I think the Red Wings always underestimate the Sharks because of some silly "choker" label.

I was at Game 1, watched Game 2.. dont think I wasnt jumping out of my chair all 70 mins of Game 1, and all 60 of Game 2.
this isnt easy for either fanbase.

Regardless, No matter the Jokes.. There has to be respect on both sides for two of the best teams in the NHL going at it all 60 mins.

[Grypho]

Isn't it part of the coaches' job to get his team ready both in playing and mentally ready to go?

You mean, who is responsible, or is that a case of where does the buck stop? There's a big difference between those you can hold accountable overall (the coaches, and even GM's), and those who are directly responsible (those who actually lace the skates). But, as long as fans believe in scapegoats (if all else fails, fire the coach, if but to appease the masses), the NHL will continue to recycle coaches, many of whom never really die.

BOP THE COACH! Now that would make a great video game. Hit a coach on the head, and watch him resurface a couple of pops later out of another team's hole.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80]

An Ex-Detroit coach is simply out coaching Detroit hands down. You cannot tell me this isn't the case. Babcock REFUSED to change his lineup after they were DEAD in game 1. Now we are in an 0-2 hole and on the brink of elimination. Refusing to change the lineup, not changing the lines during the game, and yet Babcock can be seen laughing on the Detroit bench. Is it just me or is it his time to go?

It's hilarious how much this post dismisses the obvious.

Coaching the better team =/= being the better coach.

The Sharks are simply better than the Red Wings.

[Pat]

You mean, who is responsible, or is that a case of where does the buck stop? There's a big difference between those you can hold accountable overall (the coaches, and even GM's), and those who are directly responsible (those who actually lace the skates). But, as long as fans believe in scapegoats (if all else fails, fire the coach, if but to appease the masses), the NHL will continue to recycle coaches, many of whom never really die.

BOP THE COACH! Now that would make a great video game. Hit a coach on the head, and watch him resurface a couple of pops later out of another team's hole.

I'm still unsure why you are even on this forum.

[Grypho]

I'm still unsure why you are even on this forum.

You're not the first head-scratcher to say that.

[Mabuhay Red Wings]

I'm still unsure why you are even on this forum.

It's just so he can act nice and polite and pretend that the Wings are one of his favorite teams while he gets off to seeing the Wings lose. Once that happens, he won't show up on here ever again until the next time the Wings play the Sharks in a playoff series. Sick bastard.