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Some possible NEEDED changes in the Offseason


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#41 Probie

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 01:24 AM

@OP: Hahahahaha. Did you learn your GM skills by playing NHL 11? Or perhaps Eastside Hockey Manager?

Also, I'd like to see how much your tone changes if the Wings win this series.

Hey Crymson why don't you try reading what people say before being a dick.



Also, I'd like to see how much your tone changes if the Wings win this series.Also,

This is what I wrote dude [in bold]:

"Ok folks, I'm not one to panic and say the sky is falling, nor am I one to be negative when things get bumpy. So don't flame me. I have some honest suggestions on ways to improve the team after watching them win 3 years ago and see what they need three years later. I have been watching them for about 21 years."

Notice how it doesnt focus on the first two games against the sharks. Even if we end up beating the sharks, our weaknesses that I identified in my post, have already been exposed not only in this series but in others as well. We have a weakness in size and the ability to win puck battles and i merely said we should address it. Even if you win, a team should always try to get better, and that starts with the things that is the biggest glaring weakness. My tone will remain the same.



@OP: Hahahahaha. Did you learn your GM skills by playing NHL 11? Or perhaps Eastside Hockey Manager?

I don't have time for video games bro and I don't even know what eastside Hockey manager is man. Lets READ what I said about Trades:

Of course a prospect or two and a few picks could be included in these trades mentioned below to make their values accurate, as its hard for me to judge accurate trade value, people are always ready to pounce and start flaming so hold off.
and I also wrote…
I mentioned those trades would most likely need tweaking for them to work. These are not the only players that would help our club in the areas I mentioned we needed help in. There are lots of other options.
These two things should have been read first…..

Lets look at what i wrote about the trades and what is written in the brackets:
"Hudler + Kindl + ~2nd(2011)=Bogosian (might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work)
Notice how it says "might have to add prospect or pick to make it work”? Notice how it says "~" which means "approximate". This means potentially more, maybe a second AND a third for example.


*Nyquist + flip + pick(if needed)=Chris Stewart (perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work). yes i like Nyquist too but you have to give to get.

A pick means "a" pick, and can involve what ever pick that it needs to be to make the trade work. "IF"that were a 1st with flip and Nyquist who is a very good prospect, COULD it be good enough? Perhaps. Plus it says "(perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work)". Enough said.

*prospect + ~2nd(2012)=L. Smid (guessing it gets done with minor tweaking) Again "a" prospect (which can very in quality to make the trade workable), plus "approximately" a 2nd(maybe a third on top of that) for Smid is not some rip off. Again lots of room for value in my wording.


*Prospect or pick= Chimera(or a Chimera like player, fast and strong, good in the corners, doesn't have to score lots, good on the pk)
Look at what Chimera has been traded for in the past, again this is not far fetched.

Edited by Probie, 04 May 2011 - 01:27 AM.


#42 Probie

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 01:36 AM

Wow. This team isn't done yet. They have to make a fundamental change, though. When Rafalski and Ericsson are on the ice, the team has to have Datsyuk or Zetterberg on the ice.

Double shift Datsyuk and Zetterberg and make sure that Ericsson (Pylon) and Rafalski (*****) have some support from a top notch defensive forward. Then they should be able to climb back into this.

Oh yeah I'm not saying they are, I'm just pointing out obvious weaknesses(that have been apparent for a while) and ways to fix them in the offseason.

#43 Probie

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 01:48 AM

I just like the fact that one of the main gripes the OP had was that the Wings are injury prone and then it goes on the suggest that Holland tries to sign Simon Gagne. Wow

I said we have more injuries then we should because we are unable to protect our players in which a tough guy would lesson. Yes Gagne is injury prone, he is on my radar, but if you look at my roster/lines i didn't add him. I would only be interested if he took (and will likely have to take) a lesser salary due to his injuries that makes it worth while. I'M WELL AWARE If HIS INJURY HISTORY. Thanks ;)

#44 Gutierrez

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 01:53 AM

I don't understand the want for Kronwall to go. He was one of our best players in the first round and logged more mins than Nick and has great offensive instinct and good first pass. To the OP, your point about it being bad that management entices players if they give them ntc, longer stay, etc. I think that strategy has actually worked. Anytime you can get a guy to sign for less it shows that he truly wants to play there and your management did a good job. See Hossa, Rafalski(he was integral in the 08 season), etc. It's been pretty well documented that players come to Detroit and sign for less to not only have a shot of winning a cup, but to allow more money to be spent on other players. I don't see how being a prime destination for free agents is a bad thing. Would you rather we be like Edmonton, where no on wants to sign? They have no ntc or long term deals for older players, that's really working out for them hu?

#45 Probie

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:27 AM

Good god step off the ledge.... It's been 2 games! Pitkinan really Edmonton didn't want him.
What is it with people wanting a player just for fighting. Silliness with that stuff, Bogosian has potential but thats all. You want to get rid of Kronwall too. That makes perfect sense... Lets just get rid of the future number 1 who's already proven he can take Nicks spot. Good god the only one I can agree on is Laich. I wouldn't mind having Brooks Laich at all good physical forward would improve the penalty kill. I'm not saying your look at the team is stupid, at least you want to make some helpful changes. But this is extremely farfetched and too soon for this type post.

Just because Edmonton didn't want Pitkinan doesn't mean that much, there is a reason Edmonton has been picking near the top of the draft for a few years now, and improper management decisions has everything to do with it.

What is it with people wanting a player just for fighting.I don't want a boogard, i even said two names of guys that can play a semi regular shift without hurting the team too much, and they don't have to play 80 games either.


You want to get rid of Kronwall too.
No I dont want to get rid of Kronwall. read what I wrote to another poster:
"My only point about having to trade one of the core for younger players, and or picks is that most of our core like rafs, lids, homer wont and or cant be traded or have no trade value. If we were to swing a deal for part of the older core(i think kronner is a bargain and a very good defensemen and i would gladly trade others out of the core if i could) is because he does have value, and could be replaced via free agency, or close there too. All the other older core have ntc or nmc or no value. Its something you don't want to do, but you cant watch all our top core players walk into the sunset and get nothing out of them. That was all."

Lets just get rid of the future number 1 who's already proven he can take Nicks spot.I like Kronwall, but hes not a number one defenseman, maybe a number two, and he hasn't proven he can take nicks spot or he would have as Nick has slipped a bit. How many times has Kronwall won a Norris or been nominated for one? I disagree with you. Again, I like the guy hes good, and has a unique skillset.


Good god the only one I can agree on is Laich. Your sure? Cole is a good UFA pickup, as is Upshall. Cole is superior to a Miller or Homer, or Draper. Cole is coming off what many people consider his best season, and his stats this year place him 5th in scoring on our team, and hes bigger then average and skates fast and is physical. Something we need, and getting him for free through ufa makes sense. Upshall is both stronger, more physical and more talented then a guy like mIller or a guy like draper(now). Again getting him for free is not a bad thing.

#46 Probie

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:52 AM

I don't understand the want for Kronwall to go. He was one of our best players in the first round and logged more mins than Nick and has great offensive instinct and good first pass. To the OP, your point about it being bad that management entices players if they give them ntc, longer stay, etc. I think that strategy has actually worked. Anytime you can get a guy to sign for less it shows that he truly wants to play there and your management did a good job. See Hossa, Rafalski(he was integral in the 08 season), etc. It's been pretty well documented that players come to Detroit and sign for less to not only have a shot of winning a cup, but to allow more money to be spent on other players. I don't see how being a prime destination for free agents is a bad thing. Would you rather we be like Edmonton, where no on wants to sign? They have no ntc or long term deals for older players, that's really working out for them hu?

As I already said I don't want Kronwall to go, please reread why i said what in the posts above.

To the OP, your point about it being bad that management entices players if they give them ntc, longer stay, etc. I think that strategy has actually worked. Anytime you can get a guy to sign for less it shows that he truly wants to play there and your management did a good job. See Hossa, Rafalski(he was integral in the 08 season), etc. It's been pretty well documented that players come to Detroit and sign for less to not only have a shot of winning a cup, but to allow more money to be spent on other players.


yes I agree to an extent however, how much has free agency really helped us as we are not that active in it. Hossa was one year, and rafs helped us for a bit no doubt. However all the NTC's do hurt our ability to keep guys motivated as they know they are not going anywhere. It also hurts our ability to move guys when they should be moved. Detroit could still be able to lure players in by the knowing that they treat their guys good, and you are right having deals makes more depth, but they should also xeercise to an extent that people that underperform do not have secure jobs all the time. there has to be the need for some change from time to time when problems are evident. Their has to be some understanding of this and more motivation. No one here can say motivation during the regular season was not on display as being a problem for this team. Its hard to make changes when you cant, and icing the same team year after year creates stagnation. That's my only point. Sure some of these deals were good a few years ago, but we are now locked into contracts like drapers, homers and rafs that could be hurting the team. You cant use a 6 million defensemen to kill penalties of even use him as a 2nd defensemen guy (as of last year) this year and next year? How does that help the team? Sure those contracts helped a bit at first, but not now. In all is it really a plus overall when you factor in how much it helped at first to what it hurts us now? What about when you factor in the fact that it does hurt motivation? Its a tough call. I'm just saying we could still offer deals for security but not absolutely, I think if we exercised the threat of change once in a while, but still kept the same mentality i don't think we would hurt ourselves too much when it comes to players playing for less and could help motivation up. Btw, were ARE NOT the only team to have players sign for less to make a team stronger because they like playing there. That goes on all the time.

Edited by Probie, 04 May 2011 - 03:21 AM.


#47 mmamolo

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 08:33 AM

I said we have more injuries then we should because we are unable to protect our players in which a tough guy would lesson. Yes Gagne is injury prone, he is on my radar, but if you look at my roster/lines i didn't add him. I would only be interested if he took (and will likely have to take) a lesser salary due to his injuries that makes it worth while. I'M WELL AWARE If HIS INJURY HISTORY. Thanks ;)

When you complain about injuries on the current roster adding a guy with the significant injury problems that Gagne has had, no matter what kind of salary you could get him at, it would be a massive risk. Even if you got him for $1M and that affords you the ability to get other players if you are getting him you're getting him for a reason - he's supposed to fill a need. When he gets injured your need is exposed. If you feel the current roster already gets injured too often it just doesnt make sense to add another often injured player.
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#48 dragonballgtz

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:55 AM

The only thing I would change is the over ripen thing for prospects. You needs guys to have speed, passion, and something to prove now a days. Having a guy like Bert at this point in his career being the teams second liner is just wrong. Those type of players are past their prime, lost the fire to compete, and are just a shadow of what they use to be. Sure they are cheap for the salary cap but they lost that edge to win a cup.


Taking a chance on a rookie and give him NHL experience while we still have a strong core should start happening more often. Mursak should be getting some valuable NHL playoff experience right now and helping out. But he is watching while behind the depth charts of Miller, Mo, and Draper (Draper should be playing, he is still very competitive).

#49 blueadams

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:11 AM

this has gotten out of control

#50 matt198913

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 11:37 AM

It's gotten out of control because it's being treated like Fantasy hockey. That's what happens when ya post something like a major changes thread, your ideas get picked apart and challenged. Especially when you try to change the whole outlook of the team. People will question your crazy ideas like trading Kronwall or signing couple of guys that no one can see playing here.


If the thread would have started with we want to get younger without losing the core, many would have said lets grab Bogo and leave it at that. Then see how we can get younger but somehow magically acquiring Stewart, Cole, Pitkenan, Upshall, Bogasian, o ya and Carkner is extremely dilusional
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#51 mjlegend

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 11:54 AM

The only thing I would change is the over ripen thing for prospects. You needs guys to have speed, passion, and something to prove now a days. Having a guy like Bert at this point in his career being the teams second liner is just wrong. Those type of players are past their prime, lost the fire to compete, and are just a shadow of what they use to be. Sure they are cheap for the salary cap but they lost that edge to win a cup.


Taking a chance on a rookie and give him NHL experience while we still have a strong core should start happening more often. Mursak should be getting some valuable NHL playoff experience right now and helping out. But he is watching while behind the depth charts of Miller, Mo, and Draper (Draper should be playing, he is still very competitive).


Mursak (one point in 19 games) over Burt (45 points) for second line in the playoffs? Gotcha.

#52 achildr1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:10 PM

As for Draper and Osgood leaving, good luck with that.

Draper, at very least, has played 5 years younger than his age and works as hard as anyone on the team. Osgood, as much as I want him to hang em up, apparently isn't going to out without a fight. Holland doesn't push these guys out unless they've proved they're done (Maltby and McCarty), although thats what I believe Osgood's done. At this point Draper brings more in leadership, effort, and even the odd goals than Miller or Modano and I think Emmerton may even be let go before Kenny pushes Drapes out.

#53 Konnan511

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:23 PM

Mursak, Laich, Upshall, Hamrlik. No trades needed and we keep all our assets. Trading Filppula is stupid, he's consistently one of our better playoff performers for years. Guys like Holmstrom and Draper are expendable because we have guys who can fill their void for millions and millions less. Bogosian isn't the best idea. Our super late draft pick Ericsson has performed as well as he has and is a much better penalty killer and I hate Ericsson.
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#54 matt198913

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 01:20 PM

Mursak, Laich, Upshall, Hamrlik. No trades needed and we keep all our assets. Trading Filppula is stupid, he's consistently one of our better playoff performers for years. Guys like Holmstrom and Draper are expendable because we have guys who can fill their void for millions and millions less. Bogosian isn't the best idea. Our super late draft pick Ericsson has performed as well as he has and is a much better penalty killer and I hate Ericsson.


Lol and I hate him... It's no secret I love what Ericcson brings, if he would ever bring it. Ya gotta admit though he's improved every year he's been here.
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#55 Broken 16

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:27 PM

Lol and I hate him... It's no secret I love what Ericcson brings, if he would ever bring it. Ya gotta admit though he's improved every year he's been here.



Ya. In microscopic increments.

#56 Konnan511

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:43 PM

Ya. In microscopic increments.

So you admit it!!!
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#57 Berry

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 03:29 PM

1st: trade Flip and/or Hudler (6 M salary)
2nd: Re-sign Lids (no more than 5 M)
3rd: Sign a 2nd line scorer (30 goal scorer)


Franzen-Dats-Homer
xxxxx-Zeta-Cleary
Berts-xxxxx-xxxxx
Eaves-Helm-Abdelkader

Question: who are xxxx??

Please discuss

#58 GMRwings1983

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:24 PM

This is my outlook on next season.


Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Cleary/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi
Grinder/Helm/Eaves
Enforcer/Mursak/Enforcer

Lidstrom/Rafalski
Kronwall/Stuart
Big D-man/Enforcer

Edited by GMRwings1983, 04 May 2011 - 04:24 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#59 Konnan511

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:00 PM

This is my outlook on next season.


Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Cleary/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi
Grinder/Helm/Eaves
Enforcer/Mursak/Enforcer

Lidstrom/Rafalski
Kronwall/Stuart
Big D-man/Enforcer


We would not even get close to making the playoffs with that line-up. Not enough goals and no defense. The only thing I agree with is an enforcer on the fourth line and a physical (doesn't have to be big) 5th/6th/7th defenseman.
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#60 achildr1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:05 PM

1st: trade Flip and/or Hudler (6 M salary)
2nd: Re-sign Lids (no more than 5 M)
3rd: Sign a 2nd line scorer (30 goal scorer)


Franzen-Dats-Homer
xxxxx-Zeta-Cleary
Berts-xxxxx-xxxxx
Eaves-Helm-Abdelkader

Question: who are xxxx??

Please discuss


Filppula most likely stay and is 3rd line center.

Mursak and Draper fill a fourth line spot and extra forward.

Eaves, Helm, or Abdelkader move up a line.

So essentially...
Mursak, Filppula, FA Forward (hopefully someone who is physical)





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