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#1 Nevermind

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:25 PM

In a game we pretty much absolutely have to win, how the hell do Salei and Ericsson get more even strength ice time thanf****** Nicklas Lidstrom? It's like Babcock thinks Lidstrom's a powerplay specialist now or something. If anything, that would be $6M man Rafalski.

Nick wasn't out for even a second of the penalty kill (which let up 2 goals...coincidence? Probably not when your best penalty killer isn't on the ice.) Kronwall and Stuart probably spent too much time killing penalties compared to the others--obviously wearing them out.

I haven't really felt the need to criticize Babcock so much before. Even if Lidstrom's lost half-a-step and isn't perfect anymore, he's still the one defenseman in the league I would want out there in any given situation. What was the point in limiting Nick's ice time all season? I would think it would be so he could play over 30 minutes in games like these.


EDIT: Also, I just had to mention how I loved seeing Flip, Mule and Hudler suck on the OT powerplay for 1:30 while I don't think Pavel and Hank even got the first 30 seconds. It was only the most important powerplay of our season.

Edited by Nevermind, 04 May 2011 - 10:33 PM.


#2 Lonewuhf

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 11:03 PM

I've questioned decisions made by Babcock this entire series. He broke up Fil and Dats who had amazing chemistry, he refuses to bring back Modano even though he deserves a chance more than 50% of this team. He continues to pair Franzen with Dats even though Franzen hasn't had chemistry with anyone. Cleary has still been getting a lot of ice time that has been wasted. Like you said, defensive pairings have been crap. This was arguably the most important game of the season, and he made mediocre at best decisions.

In response to your edit. Fil played amazing in the first series, then has been paired with Huds and Franzen, two of the worst players in the playoffs (and regular season for that matter). Not entirely fair to put blame on him, at least not as much as the other two.

Edited by Lonewuhf, 04 May 2011 - 11:04 PM.


#3 atodaso

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 11:33 PM

lidstrom has spent a total of 3 minutes and 40 seconds on the pk so far in these playoffs and we have given up something like 10 or 11 pp goals in 7 games. during the season he was #3 in terms of pk ice time behind stuart and kronwall. of course our pk sucked then too so...
the bottom line is that babcock either knows something we don't or he has a screw loose.

#4 puckbags

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 11:59 PM

Makes ya wonder if he's hurt? I can see limiting his ice time in the first series but if Babs is still trying to save him I think he's waited a little too long :lol: He's the perfect human..I hope he gets a lot of ice time Friday.

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#5 Nevermind

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 01:17 AM

Makes ya wonder if he's hurt? I can see limiting his ice time in the first series but if Babs is still trying to save him I think he's waited a little too long :lol: He's the perfect human..I hope he gets a lot of ice time Friday.


But he's playing well though. I honestly think it's just Babcock mismanaging the ice time.

I remember being mad when Babcock didn't put Yzerman out there for the last minute of Game 6 against Edmonton in '06. Even though Yzerman was playing well, it probably wouldn't have made a difference anyways. But in this case, for total ice time, I think more of Lidstrom and less Salei, Ericsson and Rafalski could have changed the outcome.

Well, it's done now. But since Game 4's an actual elimination game, let's see if the ice time distribution changes at least a little.

#6 toby91_ca

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:36 AM

I think it is because Nik isn't capabe of playing big minutes anymore. This happens when you get older. Maybe he can do it for a game and maybe we'll see that in game 4, but there is no way Lidstrom can play 30 minutes a game, night in, night out in a long playoff run.

#7 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:41 AM

Babs has gotten outcoached this series. The special teams have really failed us, not playing Datsyuk and Zetterberg more on the PP and not playing Nick on the PK. Not to mention, as much as I love our 4th line playing them in OT when San Jose are only playing 3 lines is foolish. Mike's an interesting guy, but this year it didnt work.

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#8 wingfan1991

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:58 AM

I remember being mad when Babcock didn't put Yzerman out there for the last minute of Game 6 against Edmonton in '06.


Still bugs me to this day seeing that.

#9 GMRwings1983

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:05 PM

I think it is because Nik isn't capabe of playing big minutes anymore. This happens when you get older. Maybe he can do it for a game and maybe we'll see that in game 4, but there is no way Lidstrom can play 30 minutes a game, night in, night out in a long playoff run.


And Salei apparently is capable of it?

I guess we've been saving Salei all season just for this particular occasion. Same with Ericsson.

Seriously, I think Babcock has lost his damn mind.
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#10 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:06 PM

I dont care about saving players energy anymore we need Lids, Dats, and Z on the PK. Are PK is terrible, but we fail to put on the best all around d-man in the league as well as the top 2 defensive forwards in the league. This is absolutely ludicrous. And for f*** sakes why dont we go Flip-Dats-Mule, Cleary-Z-Huds. Screw defense and depth lets just try and score at will with our top 2 lines. Huds Clears and Z were out one shift together (After Huds penalty) and they completely dominated. Why on earth babs loves to keep Huds and Fil from playing with our best players is beyond me. They are players that need to play with good players. And when they do play with good plays they light it up and actually help improve they play of the players (that sounds weird but its true) Flip and Dats played out of their mind in game 2 vs Pheonix and Huds has played his best hockey with both Dats and Z this season. so Babs wake up we have nothing to lose lets at least play entertaining hockey and go down swinging!

Sorry for RANT

#11 Joey v3.4

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:19 PM

In a game we pretty much absolutely have to win, how the hell do Salei and Ericsson get more even strength ice time thanf****** Nicklas Lidstrom? It's like Babcock thinks Lidstrom's a powerplay specialist now or something. If anything, that would be $6M man Rafalski.

Nick wasn't out for even a second of the penalty kill (which let up 2 goals...coincidence? Probably not when your best penalty killer isn't on the ice.) Kronwall and Stuart probably spent too much time killing penalties compared to the others--obviously wearing them out.

I haven't really felt the need to criticize Babcock so much before. Even if Lidstrom's lost half-a-step and isn't perfect anymore, he's still the one defenseman in the league I would want out there in any given situation. What was the point in limiting Nick's ice time all season? I would think it would be so he could play over 30 minutes in games like these.


EDIT: Also, I just had to mention how I loved seeing Flip, Mule and Hudler suck on the OT powerplay for 1:30 while I don't think Pavel and Hank even got the first 30 seconds. It was only the most important powerplay of our season.


Finally, a post I can agree with.

Rafalski is a better PP man right now. No disrespect to Lidstrom, but Raf probably would have outscored him this year if he had been in all season.

Lidstrom should be on the PK. Hell, at the rate it's going, a duck in a clown suit might be a good bet on the PK.

Our penalty kill problem isn't exactly only defense though. It's clumped offense.

We have two powerplay modes.

1) We pressure the point very hard, and they get it down low and suddenly have 3 guys deep cycling the puck 2 inches from the net.
2) We pressure deep, and end up with 4 guys in one corner, and they have someone standing in the slot clipping his fingernails waiting for the puck to get to him.

Our biggest weakness on the PK is that we can't seem to make up our minds on which strategy to play.

Diamond with aggressive point checking? We always have someone miss an assignment down deep.

Collapse on the net, we let them shoot endlessly from the point.

Collapse on puck carrier, they put a guy in the slot, and we seem shocked when he scores.

Those are the three defensive PK strategies detroit is using, and it's like people are just missing assignments.

If you play Diamond, there needs to be a solid rotation of who is pressuring the point. We miss that assignment a lot, because we'll have 2-3 guys pressuring the point, and one guy deep.

If you roll a collapse on the net, you still need people to be aggressive when the point check presents itself. We usually hesitate and wait.

If you collapse on Puck carrier, well, you can't collapse the whole damn team on the puck carrier deep in the corner, which is exactly how they scored their first goal.

Our PK sucks.

I think, I BET, Detroit has spent so much time working on it since it's sucked all season long, that now guys are just confused.

We are sucking so badly on Penalty kills because it has been screwed with so much all season long, to try to fix it, that nobody has the system down, and nobody is confident. You know how when we go on the PK, you get that gut wrenching feel of "Oh god, please not again". Trust me, the players get that too, pros or not. If it sucks, it sucks....and the players know it sucks EVEN MORE than the fans realize it sucks. It's stressful to watch, imagine how it is to play it?

And now, we'll go golfing because we overtrained, and underestimated the Penalty kill.

Simple. As. That.

We're so solid 5 on 5 because it's the system we played all year long. Our PK was "ok", but our defense wasn't great. We won enough games to get our slot because we could score (2nd highest scoring, overall). We were never particularly good on Power plays, or penalty kills all year long (Not particularly bad either), but now that teams are fighting for gold, our failure to have a solid system in both the PK and PP, has left them an avenue to exploit a clear cut weakness in our team.

And Howard has little to do with it. If anything, our PK could be a lot worse, if he wasn't playing solid.

In any 5 on 4 situation, one man is theoretically always open. The real trick to PK is to ensure that nobody in a shooting position is open, despite the fact that one guy will always fundamentally be open. Four professional players cannot keep five professional players contained at all times, ever. But don't even get me started on that subject. That subject is one of positioning, puck control, and a lot of deep play variables.

Edited by Joey v3.4, 05 May 2011 - 12:33 PM.

And Boom goes the Dynamite.

#12 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:40 PM

I don't normally like to sit here and play armchair coach, but to me there were a lot of choices Mike made in this series that hurt the team.

Not using Nick on the PK is the obvious one, when the PK is a disaster zone. Maybe Nick can't handle big minutes any more, but in a do-or-die type game like yesterday's was, I think he'd have survived.

The D pairings still drive me nuts. I can't remember the reason he went away from Nick-Raf anymore, but for sure Ericsson-Rafalski don't compliment each other at all, hugely the opposite, and have no business being on the ice together.

And he altogether didn't mess with the lines enough, which is doubly strange because he loves to mess with the lines. Blow up that ineffective third line and put Flip and Hudler on Pav/Hank's wing. Doesn't he remember in '09 how he caught lightning in a bottle against Anaheim when he put together Franzen-Flip-Hossa? Mix it up, man! Or are we really going to sit around and continue to watch Datsyuk do all the heavy lifting?
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#13 Barrie

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 04:44 PM

I was wondering a couple times in Game 3 why the 3rd and 4th lines were out there when we had a faceoff in the SJ zone.
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#14 Systemfel

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:23 PM

I can't remember the reason he went away from Nick-Raf anymore

Me neither. I can't understand that. Lids better be pushing 30 minutes tomorrow.

Edited by Systemfel, 05 May 2011 - 07:24 PM.


#15 Hossa4Life

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:46 PM

i hope this isnt a hint that he is going to retire after this year. The only excuse i can think of is that lids is saying he cant go out. It is the only reason he shouldnt be out every other shift.

But I must be off, I have some jerking off to do. Oh btw I like to consider myself extremely attractive and am proud of myself for being your intellectual superior as I am going to UofM next year, and I am a better hockey player than Crosby.

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#16 dirtydangles

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 10:20 AM

i don't see why babs is so stubborn. last game we were desperate for a win and he held lids off the pp. maybe he wants guys who shotblock with their body a little more? like wtf? just saying, shea webber played 42:12 in game 2 for the preds against vancouver. that is awesome.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?






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