Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The NHL's new 'catch-up' officiating


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#21 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:08 AM

Sorry guys. As much as we, and I myself, have complained about inconsistent officiating in the past, y'all need to slow your gears down. These side stories are a waste of time and you are just pissing yourselves off.

Last night showed that the Wings also were fortunate with a few calls as well. It might not happen much to us because we see ridiculous phantom interference calls or whatever, but we get a break every now and then as well (i.e. Bertuzzi's goal which should've been offside). And both those penalties on Detroit were legit in the 3rd period, as much as I didn't like the call on Abdlekader in the heat of the moment either.

And let's get one thing clear that I am one of the first people to blow gaskets at refs for phantom interference or intent to blow the whistle or whatever.

Please stop wasting useless energy and just accept that the officiating and rules for the most part just aren't that good and are inconsistent. Nothing more and nothing less.

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 07 May 2011 - 09:12 AM.


#22 drwscc

drwscc

    I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,289 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:37 AM

The league has been steadily becoming more of a joke since the lockout. Wings should sign this guy:


Posted Image


Unfortunately, the Macho Man is looking more like Kenny Rogers these days.

Posted Image
Faith is to believe what you do not yet see; the reward for this faith is to see what you believe.

I went to a doctor the other day, and all he did was suck blood out of my neck. Never go see Dr. Acula
- Mitch Hedberg

#23 greenrebellion

greenrebellion

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 741 posts
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA

Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:01 AM

they are not dumb to bias in favor of a team that is clearly loosing a series. Detroit and San Jose are not that far way from each other compared to the current Flyers and Bruins. Moreover, you cannot always control a game as one team could be head and shoulders better and may overcome even biased officiating. Finally, amount of PP is not that important compared to their timing. You usually easily kill a PP early in the first period. Much more complicated to kill it during the second period when you have long shifts (Detroit had 3 PPs today). Even more in the 3rd. Todays game was given to us and I'm not fine with this.


In my previous post I stated how the refs are failing pretty hard if there is manipulation seeing as none of the series are going deep, the response is "they only try to manipulate the game in the tight series or games." Second I point out that there were more powerplays called for the team that was ahead in games four of the TB and Bos series, and the response is all that matters is second and third periods. Do you guys realize how ridiculous this all sounds?

FYI... wash/tb was a very tight series and TB and Bos had more second and third period power plays so your points are moot.


Actually, I think there's a very, very good chance that a empirical study of when penalties are called and to which team would show that within the 3rd period way more are called against the winning team. This would prove the "catch-up" rule.


Come on...even if we assume that this is true, correlation is not causation. Its quite possible and probably very reasonable to assume that the team playing from behind, especially in the playoffs, is going to show a ton of desperation late in the game, spending much of the time in the offensive zone. You don't think this could lead to more power plays for the team that is down?

Edited by greenrebellion, 07 May 2011 - 10:17 AM.


#24 RusDRW

RusDRW

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,347 posts
  • Location:Tampere, FI

Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:56 AM

Come on...even if we assume that this is true, correlation is not causation. Its quite possible and probably very reasonable to assume that the team playing from behind, especially in the playoffs, is going to show a ton of desperation late in the game, spending much of the time in the offensive zone. You don't think this could lead to more power plays for the team that is down?


At the same time team that is trying to even up the score is likely to take more penalties, right? Because players are desperate and often panic. What we usually see these days is that refs are starting to allow them a bit more and call every penalty against defending team. Apart from clear bias that is often evident nowadays, this "a bit more" is one of the biggest problem with officiating. I simply do not understand why one team needs to work harder to win.

This really coincides with neighboring topic titled "Remember when third period leads were safe". Yes, I do remember. 15 or 10 years ago when one team led after two it is likely to win. Two goal leads were even safer than deposits.
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#25 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:12 AM

I just love how people are so certain that there's not anything fishy going on. I wonder if they said the same thing about basketball before that ref was caught.

esteef
"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#26 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:15 AM

I just love how people are so certain that there's not anything fishy going on. I wonder if they said the same thing about basketball before that ref was caught.

esteef

There could certainly be something going on behind the scenes, but I'm not going to waste my time thinking about it or getting angry about it, and it's not my job to figure it out. I don't like being angry or paranoid about things.

#27 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:19 AM

There could certainly be something going on behind the scenes, but I'm not going to waste my time thinking about it or getting angry about it, and it's not my job to figure it out. I don't like being angry or paranoid about things.

Good for you then, we want to discuss it.

esteef
"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#28 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:34 AM

Good for you then, we want to discuss it.

esteef

Good for you as well, my point still stands no matter how much you might not like it. That's your tough luck.

#29 sinbin

sinbin

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 343 posts
  • Location:East Jordan,MI

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:41 AM

There could certainly be something going on behind the scenes, but I'm not going to waste my time thinking about it or getting angry about it, and it's not my job to figure it out. I don't like being angry or paranoid about things.



I agree. I have watched & played this wonderful game since 1972. The coaches have been and always will, give the refs their 2 cents.I would not want to ref this game as it has become so fast to the nth degree. 4 sets of eyes cannot possibly cover everything. You can never take out the human factor in sports officiating.
Don't be fooled by what you see......

#30 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:45 AM

Good for you as well, my point still stands no matter how much you might not like it. That's your tough luck.

What point? That you don't believe it's true? How profound, thanks for the input.

esteef
"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#31 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:47 AM

What point? That you don't believe it's true? How profound, thanks for the input.

esteef

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying and implying. You need me to write it out in crayon for you?

I can play the cutesy game as well.

#32 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:50 AM

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying and implying. You need me to write it out in crayon for you?

I can play the cutesy game as well.

Yes write it in crayon then stick it up your ass. How's that for "cutesy".

esteef
"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#33 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:54 AM

Yes write it in crayon then stick it up your ass. How's that for "cutesy".

esteef

That would really really hurt though, so I'll pass.

Again, it's not my problem if you don't like my stance. I don't think there's stuff going on behind the scenes, you do. Cool, that's your deal and you are entitled to it, no problem. You could've simply said I disagree with you and it could've been left at that. I'm not the one starting stuff being a smart-allec and copping attitude. You want to keep this up?

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 07 May 2011 - 11:55 AM.


#34 R-Dizzle

R-Dizzle

    Just warming up

  • Gold Booster
  • 623 posts
  • Location:Stationed in South Florida

Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:10 PM

Doubt there's an agenda with the league and refs. I just think the officials just plain suck.

Edited by R-Dizzle, 07 May 2011 - 12:12 PM.

Posted Image


#35 Joey v3.4

Joey v3.4

    Stoned

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 191 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:30 PM

Sorry guys. As much as we, and I myself, have complained about inconsistent officiating in the past, y'all need to slow your gears down. These side stories are a waste of time and you are just pissing yourselves off.

Last night showed that the Wings also were fortunate with a few calls as well. It might not happen much to us because we see ridiculous phantom interference calls or whatever, but we get a break every now and then as well (i.e. Bertuzzi's goal which should've been offside). And both those penalties on Detroit were legit in the 3rd period, as much as I didn't like the call on Abdlekader in the heat of the moment either.

And let's get one thing clear that I am one of the first people to blow gaskets at refs for phantom interference or intent to blow the whistle or whatever.

Please stop wasting useless energy and just accept that the officiating and rules for the most part just aren't that good and are inconsistent. Nothing more and nothing less.


Complaining about officiating is just finding excuses. Occassionally, yes, a series or a particular game is poorly officiated, but it doesn't win or lose series typically.

Any time I see a fan complain about officiating, I usually just stop listening to the rest of what they have to say.

It DOES happen, do not get me wrong. And yes, I do believe honestly and genuinely that in the secret referee meetings, there is a little bit of corruption.

But you could find flaws in the officiating in any game, ever.

There are a few types of penalties that we see:

1) The type that can't go unnoticed. It's blatantly obvious, and you just HAVE to call it, regardless of how it actually influences the game. If player A skates over and slaps player B in the face with a stick, you have to call that. Regardless of it's outcome, or timing, everyone says "Yeah.....yeah he did it"

2) The type that are penalties but may or may not be called, largely based on factors of even-ness. For example, if your team has taken 5 penalties and the other team only 2, so long as what you do is not in category 1, it might not be called. Meanwhile, for evening purposes (Because if they weren't even, lets face it, we would ALL complain), they are less lenient on the other team, and might call them on something that seems less than something the other team did.

3) The type of penalty that strikes the conspiracy debate, were a penalty is seemingly called at a critical point, or largely in favor of the team that is down by one goal, or just called to even the penalties out at an inopportune moment. I will admit, in order for me to make this a category (And it's entirely based on my observations), it hints there could be occassionally some crookedness.

4) The type of penalty where you're like, "OK, do these referee's get any training? Because I watched the replay and it was NOTHING like that!!" Unfortunately, unless it goes to video replay, the rule of the league is that it always stands. Not very many penalty calls EVER go to video replay, so yes, the referee could have been wrong, or thought he saw something that you are certain didn't happen, but whatever, these always go both ways.

5) Lots more.

A few truths, that most people ignore:

---If the referee's called every penalty, five on five play would not exist. There is a potential penalty just about every shift. If you really want to get technical. It's kinda like, you can't walk from your house to the store without breaking a law.....not because you are evil, but because there are a billion laws. Same for penalties. Not a billion, but many different interpretations of them, and a lot of them that could be called. For example, they could call "Delay of game" for problems in the face-off, but they never actually do.

---As fans, regardless of what is actually happening on the ice, we expect the penalties to be fair. If one team played dirtier than another, and ended up with 15 penalties, while the other team took 2, there would be an outrage. Everyone on the losing side would cry conspiracy. So basically, to ensure "Fair" they do try to keep them relatively even. So as a referee, you have to appease the fans, while trying to referee the game. It's still a sport, ie a venue of entertainment, so you've got fans, coaches, players, everyone all with different perspectives on what did or did not happen, breathing down your throat to do it the way "They" want, meanwhile, you have a job to do that is not suppose to specifically fit what any of them want.

--On TV, you cannot see or hear what is always happening on the ice. It is one thing to watch the bombing of pearl harbor on TV. It is, entirely another to be sitting on a boat outside Hawaii when it happens.

I could go on with mainly worthless, relatively unimportant factors, but the bottom line IMO is:

Referee's don't win or lose games. The teams do. They MIGHT have an influence, and their mistakes can flip-flop a series. But they're not robots. And they're not all-seeing. And they're not perfect.

Is their corruption in the ranks? I don't know, for sure. My instincts tell me that yes, there is. But I've watched a lot of hockey in the last two decades, and EVEN if there is, it is NEVER EVER an excuse for a team losing.

The problem with blaming the referee's is that people get really commited to the idea that "OH they would have won if not for the cheater referees!!!" And that is simply not true.

Good teams win, despite the referee-ing.

Even if there was a conspiracy, it is only a small portion of it. Blaming the referee's or even really spending a lot of time fired up about them, it's kinda immature in my opinion.

Vancouver got HIGHLY screwed on penalties in their first series, yet they won. I reviewed the penalty logs for that series, and I had to wonder if it was a bunch of trainee's. Yet, they still won.

Edit: Excuse my spelling. I drink a lot :)

Edited by Joey v3.4, 07 May 2011 - 03:33 PM.

And Boom goes the Dynamite.

#36 crotty99

crotty99

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,985 posts
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia

Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:44 PM

I just love how people are so certain that there's not anything fishy going on. I wonder if they said the same thing about basketball before that ref was caught.

esteef


I just love how people are so certain that there IS something fishy going on. As for "that ref" that is not really the issue being discussed. That is a case of an individual committing a crime, not a league pushing an agenda.

I also love how every other fan base think the Red Wings are the league's golden team. In fact, have a read through some Pittsburgh GDTs and you'll find they think the league doesn't want the Pens winning the cup. You'll find similar claims in Vancouver forums,Chicago forums..the list goes on. Every fan base has a problem with officiating because the calls can be highly inconsistent and the interpretations are often confused, everyone thinks the league is "Out to get them". It's actually pretty funny.

Posted Image


Thanks TeeMan!


#37 Grayne Wetzky

Grayne Wetzky

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 124 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:54 PM

Unfortunately, the Macho Man is looking more like Kenny Rogers these days.

Posted Image



I guess this is the only time you could say that it isn't a bad thing!

I just love how people are so certain that there IS something fishy going on. As for "that ref" that is not really the issue being discussed. That is a case of an individual committing a crime, not a league pushing an agenda.

I also love how every other fan base think the Red Wings are the league's golden team. In fact, have a read through some Pittsburgh GDTs and you'll find they think the league doesn't want the Pens winning the cup. You'll find similar claims in Vancouver forums,Chicago forums..the list goes on. Every fan base has a problem with officiating because the calls can be highly inconsistent and the interpretations are often confused, everyone thinks the league is "Out to get them". It's actually pretty funny.


Come on. Game 1 for the Wings was RIDICULOUS. If you can't see a problem with the officiating in that game, then you just aren't watching. I have been ok with the rest of the series, though. I think it's been too much in favor of Detroit, if anything, for games 2 through 4. I would rather have a game with 2 or 3 penalties on each team and that's it. Too me, a perfect game is each team getting one power play in the first, one power play in the second, and then a 4 on 4 in the third. And that's it.

#38 mjtm77

mjtm77

    mjtm77

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 962 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:56 PM

nope cause tampa bay would not have beat the caps in four. if they fixed the games it would have the caps in the cup
Posted Image

#39 Redwings 1926

Redwings 1926

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 53 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:25 PM

Actually, I think there's a very, very good chance that a empirical study of when penalties are called and to which team would show that within the 3rd period way more are called against the winning team. This would prove the "catch-up" rule.




That does not prove anything. In the 3rd period, the winning team is usually try to keep the other team from scoring. A team trying to protect a lead is more likely get an interference call for instance, while the losing team is trying to stay on the "straight and narrow" to maximize their chances of getting a goal.



#40 Cali-Wing-Nut

Cali-Wing-Nut

    Guppie Hunter

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Location:Sacramento

Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:46 PM

Even though it worked in our favor tonight, the NHL's new 'catch-up' post-season officiating is complete and total b.s. It's pretty f-ing clear to me that Bettman's given his officials an agenda this post-season, with the goal seemingly being to take as many series as possible to seven games, and to take as many games as possible to OT.

I hadn't seen a thread on this since the post-season started (if there was, my apologies), so I wanted to see if I was alone here (...as a paranoid conspiracy theorist), or if this was obvious to everyone!?


/im 100% with you. If it wasnt for the ton of PP we had in the start I think the game woulda been way lower scoring. To that end if the Sharks didnt get those PPs in the last period they wouldnt have tied it.

/if the Sharks didnt tie it Id be calling this game a hollow victory with SJ getting way too many calls against them. I made a thread regarding Game 2 being over officiated but I dont think anyone has talked about the officials helping a team to come from behind. I have seen way too many last minute penalties when a team is just about to wrap things up and then go on the Kill with a minute or two left and have to fight off a 6-4 rush.

It makes for good TV, especially if you dont care who wins and just like to see the drama of it all. To that end its like setting up NASCARs so they are more likely to crash so people that dont ever what it, tune in and see some spectacular crash of 20 cars. Its not the right way to gain viewership and it is very obvious that certain rules and regulations have been created to have a super tight conference in the regular season and to have as many Game 7s or OTs as possible in the Playoffs.

It was alot more prevalent in the Quarter finals where a ton of teams went OT or long series due to calls.
I'M WRECKING SHOP!!!





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users