129 replies to this topic

[haroldsnepsts]

For his size he should easily be leading that category, should he not? Helmer hits more effectively and is quite a bit smaller, Hell D hits harder than Ericsson.

Turnovers are way more telling and the breakpoint for a Defenseman. Unfortunatley there is no live stats for time holding the puck. At that point you can determine how effective a player is at holding on to it while its in his possesion. Youre going to expect players that have the puck a lot such as D and Z to have more turnovers on average. D-men dont have the puck as much so they shouldnt be turning it over.

Your logic is flawed.

Detroit relies on their defenseman greatly to move the puck up ice more than most teams. It's why they have guys like Lids, Rafalksi, Kronner, and yes, Ericsson. They may not be holding on to the puck as long, but they're making a lot of passes out of their own end under high pressure situations. Having to make a tough breakout pass that often is going to lead to turnovers.

In the regular season, 4 of the 5 players with the most turnovers were Rafalski, Ericsson, Stuart, and Kronwall. The fact that Lids is so far down the list is just another reason why he's so damn good.

Look at Rafalski, he has 1 more turnover than Ericsson in the regular sesason but has over 30 points MORE while playing 11 games LESS.

So for people to somehow say that Raffy is no good need to get their head examined. He trails only Nick in points for Dmen.

We can breakdown box scores and stats all day and I still dont see any compelling proof that he has what it takes for our team. We have the opportunity to bring in some known good talent to bolster our D and he should be first to go

Kron has established himself as a banger and de is one of the best in the league.

Jiri Fischer was a banger and unfortunately was probably sick more than he wasnt

I dont expect points from Kron, I expect him to destroy people.

Ericsson was brought up to be somewhat like Pronger, a big guy that should be able to establish position with his body and be able to shoot due to being trained as a forward. He cant do either, hell he cant bring a puck up ice for christ sake.

If we kept him hed be best as a scratch player coming in for injured players. Bottom pairing with 82 games is too much for such a crap ass player.

I wish I could see optimism in him as some here do but I see a lemon, no more and no less.

Ericsson was brought up to be like Pronger? Where did you get that idea?

That may have been your expectation of him, but I never heard any coach or scout thinking he could be Pronger. As I said in my other post, a knock against him has always been not using his size well enough and not having mean streak.

And did you really just compare Rafalski to Ericsson? If you expect E to come anywhere close to Rafalski in points, it's no wonder you hate him.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 15 May 2011 - 04:52 PM.

[Grayne Wetzky]

Agreed. I try not to get into the debates because he's clearly the whipping boy here at LGW. But he's a fine #5 D man.

The Wings paid $1.1 mill for Salei this season, and E ended up playing more minutes than him, and for a while Salei was competing with Kindl for the number 6 spot. I don't know what people expect for a bottom pairing guy. Ericsson was dead last in the draft and is a converted forward. If he makes it as a solid #5 guy, that's a win for the Wings. If he developed into a #4 guy, I'd be ecstatic.

If the Wings can sign someone better, so be it. But if they do sign him for $1.25 mill, that's going to be hard to beat. He knows the system and he's a known quantity to the coaches.

I don't know how much more upside he has, but he did play a little more physical. He needs to improve there, and figure out how to get his slapshot off much, much quicker.

Too much logic in this post.

ha

[Cali-Wing-Nut]

By who? Who said that he would be the next Lidstrom who hits like Kronwall? I never heard anyone say anything even close to that about him. Babcock called him a stud in one quote, but that's about it. Even in Grand Rapids they were saying he needed to bulk up and play with a mean streak. Eeven among his supporters I don't remember anyone here ever saying he'd be a Lidstrom with Kronner's hitting. Actually, anyone comparing any d-man on the Wings to Lids AND Kronner would get laughed at, for starters.

I couldn't find the Red Wings prospect review, but on hockeys future they said he could develop into a #4-6 D-man, which still sounds about right.

http://www.hockeysfu...nathan_ericsson

Exactly what point of yours does his being drafted last prove? My point was it should give some indication of expectations for him, or how the fact he's in the lineup at all is a win for the Wings.


Emotional needs for him to play well? I'm not sure what you're referring to. You seem to be the one who has a lot more emotions involved when it comes to Ericsson.

I have talked about Ericsson's upsides in several posts. His biggest asset to the team is probably his puck moving ability. Ericsson has a very good first pass. Better than Stuart and Salei. It leads to some brutal turnovers because he doesn't seem to have it between the ears yet. But it's his second full season. I'm guessing Detroit is hoping his decision making will continue to improve and there will inevitably be growing pains as he tries to stretch his role on the team.

His size is also an asset. He's not as physical as he should be, but the Wings blueline is undersized and he provides some. He'd be a greater asset if he played nastier. And to be clear, I'm not saying Ericsson is some awesome defenseman. But he's big, somewhat physical, will drop the gloves on occasion, good passer, cheap, relatively young, and could still improve. Put that all together and he's a decent bottom pairing guy.

And now you're saying $2 mill to replace him. If we're talking about re-signing E for that, then that does add to potential other D-men out there. I was saying around 1.25 mill.

No short memory here. Again, you seem to be angry because Ericsson didn't turn out to be a savior for the Wings defensive corps. I don't think anyone realistically thought he would be that. Everything I saw he was projected to be a #4-6 d'man. If he turns out to be that, it's a win for the Wings. And either way I don't see why Ericsson should take all the blame for not replacing the Wings aging defensive corps. Isn't that Holland's job?

"Having played center most of his life, Ericsson enjoys an impressive skill-set. He has excellent mobility and agility for a player his size, possesses solid hands, has above average puck skills, and makes a very good first pass. His shot’s not too shabby either, having recorded a 100.1 mph slap shot at the 2008 AHL skills competition.

But don’t let his soft hands fool you. He plays a physical brand of hockey with a willingness to protect his teammates by dropping the gloves."

Bleacher report scouting Report 2008

I highlighted what was talked about him by almost everyone. A big shooter that wouldnt think twice about taking care of business. Sounds like Nick crossed with Kron to me. Isnt that why they were pairing him with Nicky during the 09 cup? I remember them saying that he was being taught to play like Nick. That ended in failure. Ill give you this, he finally stopped trying to poke check pucks away and at least attempted to get in front of it as well as he could.

As far as his size is concerned, you claim he add some size at the blueline as an asset. What good is size if he is either unwilling or unable to use it? Potential is one thing, hell I had the potential to be an NBA basketball player except I didnt shoot good enough for a guy that is 6'6". Just cause Im tall and have some size doesnt mean I was able to play at the level required for the DRW. He is far from physical and a serious pushover. Like I said and you seem to acknowledge is that he doesnt use his body to his advantage.

His first pass is fine as long as there isnt a forecheck that is worth a damn on the ice. His dump pass into the zone is scary soft and almost always ends in a quick outlet pass the other way right past him. Again potential vs results. Potential:10 Results: -100

As far as saying that it sounds like an emotional argument from you and some others, you sound like a codependent spouce of an alcoholic. "Hell get better" is the operative phase. We arent rebuilding a team last time I checked, people like myself expect results from the team. I get angry because he is given too much time and as of yet I dont have an indication that he is gonna get dropped.

As far as his failure as a player being blamed on him? What can I say hes out there on the ice and he aint doin s***.

As far as it being Holland fault instead? Who are you gonna trade him to? He thought he was gonna be awesome just like Babs and everyone else including me at the time. He actually played ok in 09 but that must have been freshman luck cause 4 months later and he stunk to high heaven.

Its Hollands fault if he keeps him. Like the saying goes, Trick me once shame on you, Trick me twice, Shame on HOLLAND.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree about how good he actually is and what hes worth.

Oh and Salei is no better, except that he volunteered to not play for weeks at a time. That was nice.

[haroldsnepsts]

"Having played center most of his life, Ericsson enjoys an impressive skill-set. He has excellent mobility and agility for a player his size, possesses solid hands, has above average puck skills, and makes a very good first pass. His shot’s not too shabby either, having recorded a 100.1 mph slap shot at the 2008 AHL skills competition.

But don’t let his soft hands fool you. He plays a physical brand of hockey with a willingness to protect his teammates by dropping the gloves."

Bleacher report scouting Report 2008

I highlighted what was talked about him by almost everyone. A big shooter that wouldnt think twice about taking care of business. Sounds like Nick crossed with Kron to me. Isnt that why they were pairing him with Nicky during the 09 cup? I remember them saying that he was being taught to play like Nick. That ended in failure. Ill give you this, he finally stopped trying to poke check pucks away and at least attempted to get in front of it as well as he could.

As far as his size is concerned, you claim he add some size at the blueline as an asset. What good is size if he is either unwilling or unable to use it? Potential is one thing, hell I had the potential to be an NBA basketball player except I didnt shoot good enough for a guy that is 6'6". Just cause Im tall and have some size doesnt mean I was able to play at the level required for the DRW. He is far from physical and a serious pushover. Like I said and you seem to acknowledge is that he doesnt use his body to his advantage.

His first pass is fine as long as there isnt a forecheck that is worth a damn on the ice. His dump pass into the zone is scary soft and almost always ends in a quick outlet pass the other way right past him. Again potential vs results. Potential:10 Results: -100

As far as saying that it sounds like an emotional argument from you and some others, you sound like a codependent spouce of an alcoholic. "Hell get better" is the operative phase. We arent rebuilding a team last time I checked, people like myself expect results from the team. I get angry because he is given too much time and as of yet I dont have an indication that he is gonna get dropped.

As far as his failure as a player being blamed on him? What can I say hes out there on the ice and he aint doin s***.

As far as it being Holland fault instead? Who are you gonna trade him to? He thought he was gonna be awesome just like Babs and everyone else including me at the time. He actually played ok in 09 but that must have been freshman luck cause 4 months later and he stunk to high heaven.

Its Hollands fault if he keeps him. Like the saying goes, Trick me once shame on you, Trick me twice, Shame on HOLLAND.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree about how good he actually is and what hes worth.

Oh and Salei is no better, except that he volunteered to not play for weeks at a time. That was nice.

I didn't say he shouldn't be blamed for his failures on the ice. What I actually said is he shouldn't be blamed for Detroit's defensive aging core and Holland not making bigger moves to replace it. He's just one player and is only responsible for his performance.

Though I have no idea why you'd think it, even from that Bleacher Report article (which is basically a blog by a Wings fan, isn't it?), but if you seriously thought Ericsson was going to be a cross between Lidstrom and Kronwall, I can understand why you'd be disappointed.

I've stated my case. If you've actually read my posts, I think I've given a fair assessment of Ericsson and am not pinning it on some grand hopes he'll improve one day. But you've misrepresented so many of my points here it's not really worth continuing. You hate Ericsson to an irrational degree. You're in good company here.

[Cali-Wing-Nut]

Ive read your reasons as to why you think he is worth keeping on the team. I just think youre wrong.

I hate Ericsson cause he makes our team worse.

I havent misrepresented your posts. I just answer what you wrote and vice versa. I havent changed your words, I may have paraphrased here and there but the original statement is there to compare against.

The Holland situation is befuddling as much so as Babs bipolar line changes. We have strength in areas of our Defense. Kron is a great hitter. Raffy is a good scorer although he can be clumsy with the puck and could be because of lingering injuries. Stuart can be slow but he is better more often than not. Nicky is Nicky, pound for pound one the best Dman to ever skate considering rules and regulations of the game now compared to back in the day. That gets us to Pylon and Suckei.

The Salei deal is confusing. Babcock was the reason he got a job and when we were trying to get some new talent into that area we bring in a guy that hasnt been a decent player in over 5 years. Blame Holland for that.

Ericsson is what he is. We have beaten the dead horse to death and we are at a time of crossroads where we either sign him to what will probably be a 2-3 year contract at ~2mil or we let him go UFA.

Ericsson is like Abby. You bring in a guy with a definite roll to play and you see how it works out. Abby also makes bonehead mistakes and costed us 1 game for sure and IMO 2 againat SJ. I havent called for his head because he has shown definite upside when you weigh it against the brainless game changing and/or losing plays. I see him learning to control his stick and temper a bit and he is a great power forward. He is Leino in disguise and I have a feeling hed be a solid 2nd and maybe starter on more than a few teams. Being a solid 5th or 6th is for young up and comers like Kindl who need NHL experience not Ericsson. Ill eat crow if Kindl ends up belly flopping after a full year.

All in all, we need a young two way Dman that everyone hoped Ericsson to be. Just like History, Mistakes are made and he needs to get packing sooner than later.

[eva unit zero]

I appreciate Ericsson and the fact that he's punching his own ticket out of town. He would have been overpaid had he stayed, so now the Wings can get two top-four types (Ehrhoff and Pitkanen, please) or they can put Kindl in that slot and get a cheap but solid defender (Derek Meech, Doug Janik) to fill the last spot.

[redwingfan19]

used to have faith with ericsson but now he's just another aki berg.

[Heaten]

Ericsson is a decent #5/6. I all for Holland bringing him back if the deal makes sense (no more than ($1.5 million). I think E will be wearing red and white next season.

[Cali-Wing-Nut]

Ericsson is a decent #5/6. I all for Holland bringing him back if the deal makes sense (no more than ($1.5 million). I think E will be wearing red and white next season.

I hope you dont complain about our defense if that happens. Just cause hes cheap doesnt mean hes worth it (and 1.5 isnt cheap for what he brings to the table).

Furthermore, Why arent we hoping we can have solid 1 or 2 guys as 5 or 6 guys? We had it before and we won cups. Settling for less is the reason we are close but not winning.

Ill take #1 or #2 guys from #11-#14 teams for our bottom feeders. Its been shown that the better players on shoddy teams are willing to eat some salray to play on a team that can go the distance or have a good chance.

For once maybe we should draft in some expensive guys that have immediate return on investment and shuffle the guys we already have to make a decent team.

I dont follow college or minor league prospects so Im at a disadvantage at calling who we should pick but I wouldnt mind making some trades for a young superstar. Holland likes to weed out cheap players in the minors and stab them into the league at their prime. I question that tactic as it has about 20-30% return on investment as well as losing good players to trades before they even made it to the big leagues.

This will be the last post from me on this thread (as long as I dont get qouted) but I think we need to play Tatar, Mursak and Kindl. These are three men that have a lot to give, are young and free of injury, cheap and all have the potential for being superstars or at very least very important players.

Tatar may not be Crosby but he is gonna overshadow Z just needs ice time.

CWN out!

[Crymson]

I didn't say he shouldn't be blamed for his failures on the ice. What I actually said is he shouldn't be blamed for Detroit's defensive aging core and Holland not making bigger moves to replace it. He's just one player and is only responsible for his performance.

His own performance was terrible.

[dteowner]

We're a puck possession team. Ericsson is a turnover machine. He got steadily worse at his passing as the season went on and really screwed the pooch in the playoffs. You simply can't have that on a team that expects their D to get the puck possession started. All the other factors (scoring, physicality)are secondary at best. If the guy can't make smart passes, he needs to go. With Lids getting less ice time, we can't have a 5-6 pairing that we're afraid to put on the ice--hiding Ericsson there on the hope that someday he'll figure out that his passes are supposed to go to the guys with the same sweater as him just isn't going to work.

I'd take old broken-down Salei over Ericsson every day and twice on Sunday.

[Ozzie30]

His own performance was terrible.

+1.

[nuts2u]

You people are a god damn joke. A few years back you were saying pretty much the same s*** about Kronwall and before that it was Jiri Fischer. It's Ericsson's SECOND f***in year in the NHL.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

You people are a god damn joke. A few years back you were saying pretty much the same s*** about Kronwall and before that it was Jiri Fischer. It's Ericsson's SECOND f***in year in the NHL.

You people?

[sandyeggo wingnut]

You people?

What do *you* mean...you people?

(sorry couldn't resist gratuitous tropic thunder reference)

Anyway back to topic...I think Ericsson thinks he's better than he is and is going to ask for more money than he's worth...and some team will probably overpay for him...

That said i wouldn't be too broken up if a replacement for about the same amount of money and similar skill set can be found. I'm completely ambivalent..while he may end up being a good dman...he *was* mr irrelevant and may just not fit in with the future plans.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

What do *you* mean...you people?

(sorry couldn't resist gratuitous tropic thunder reference)

Anyway back to topic...I think Ericsson thinks he's better than he is and is going to ask for more money than he's worth...and some team will probably overpay for him...

That said i wouldn't be too broken up if a replacement for about the same amount of money and similar skill set can be found. I'm completely ambivalent..while he may end up being a good dman...he *was* mr irrelevant and may just not fit in with the future plans.

I'm sure Detroit plans on giving him a raise, but not what he's looking for. If he wants too much, good riddance. Don't let the door hit ya in the ass. There are plenty of more solid 3rd pairing guys available for a lower tag than him.

[Heaten]

You people are a god damn joke. A few years back you were saying pretty much the same s*** about Kronwall and before that it was Jiri Fischer. It's Ericsson's SECOND f***in year in the NHL.

I agree, seems lots of posters here have unrealistic expectations in a salary cap world. Ericsson was a good #5 and I really hope he get's signed to a long term contract. He's much better than he gets credit for.

People are looking for a Lidstrom 'replacement' and get disappointment when they realize said young player isn't it. No player will be able to replace the captain. If you think the forums are bad now, wait until Smith becomes a full time roster player on this team... he'll quickly become the 'whipping boy' on here too, especially considering how overrated he has become.

[Holmstrom96]

Ericsson sucks.

[F.Michael]

I'm not impressed with Erisccon nor the fact that he turned down a deal reported to be worth $2 million a year...Has he been sipping the same Kool-Aid as Anson Carter did?

[HankthaTank]

I'm not impressed with Erisccon nor the fact that he turned down a deal reported to be worth $2 million a year...Has he been sipping the same Kool-Aid as Anson Carter did?

I think people have definitely forgotten this fact. I realize we are trying to hold him to standards he absolutely won't reach but I do not ever want to see him back on this team. 2 million? I mean, really?