Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 30, 2011 Exactly, the Wings don't need another Datsyuk or Zetterberg caliber player. Fact is the Wings aren't exactly a tough team and that is not going to change in my opinion. I mean the Wings could do something like this and I would love this teams chances. I mean if Holmstrom shocked us and retired like Rafalski they could go out and even add Cole, Jokinen or Ryder. FORWARDS Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) Tomas Fleischmann ($3.000m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Radim Vrbata ($3.500m) Drew Miller ($0.850m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) Patrick Eaves ($0.850m) / Kris Draper ($1.250m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) DEFENSEMEN James Wisniewski ($4.500m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) Anton Babchuk ($2.000m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,483,711; BONUSES: $0 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,016,289 A 5 line team would be tough for other teams to match up with. 3 Shaman, Majsheppard and Detroit \# 1 Fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) What do you want from a DEPTH FORWARD? Well with Mursak coming up, I would say Detroit is pretty much set for DEPTH FORWARDS (caps lock is the cruise control of cool on the internet). Edit, spelling. Edited May 30, 2011 by Shaman464 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 Well with Mursk coming up, I would say Detroit is pretty much set for DEPTH FORWARDS (caps lock is the cruise control of cool on the internet). What's wrong with someone competing with Murs(a)k for a roster spot in camp? (Incorrect spelling is the cruise control of cool on the internet.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 What's wrong with someone competing with Murs(a)k for a roster spot in camp? (Incorrect spelling is the cruise control of cool on the internet.) Mursak has 2nd/3rd line potential and you're asking me why he should have to compete with a guy you yourself fashioned as a guy who would sit more often than he played? Huh, this question almost answers itself, but since you asked me here it is: Because the Wings don't lose a guy with his upside because some guy on the internet wants a pugilist on skates so he can watch two grown men beat the hell out of each other for his entertainment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,934 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 What's wrong with someone competing with Murs(a)k for a roster spot in camp? (Incorrect spelling is the cruise control of cool on the internet.) I agree, there is nothing wrong with Mursak having to earn that spot. Emmerton may come in and do the right things and earn that spot. Can the Wings have 14 forwards and 7 defensmen? If so then Mursak/Emmerton/Miller can all rotate that 12th spot... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WorkingOvertime 536 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 I don't get why this UFA class would be considered "weak". I mean sure their aren't really any superstars out there available right now and I would love to see Weber on the Wings when he becomes a UFA but there are a few 40+ points forwards available(like them or not) in Cole, Jokinen, Laich, Vrbata, Ryder and a few others than you have defenseman like Wis, Erhoff, Bieksa, Pitkanen, Babchuk, etc. So I wouldn't exactly call it weak. I should have clarified. More weak from the standpoint that most of the players you mentioned will be payed more than Flip an probably won't produce much more. With the cap going up and few superstars available, I could see a lot of the players you mentioned being overpaid. The Wings need a second line forward and many of those you mentioned aren' much better producers than the Wings' current second liners. The problem with the Wings forwards is in the top six. Also, next season Homer and Bert may not return and it isn't clear who can take their top six spots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MGreenberg 105 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 A 5 line team would be tough for other teams to match up with. Yeah, I would love the Wings to have a team like that with Franzen and Cleary having injury issues, other guys could just step in without forcing guys to get double shifted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 Mursak has 2nd/3rd line potential and you're asking me why he should have to compete with a guy you yourself fashioned as a guy who would sit more often than he played? Huh, this question almost answers itself, but since you asked me here it is: Because the Wings don't lose a guy with his upside because some guy on the internet wants a pugilist on skates so he can watch two grown men beat the hell out of each other for his entertainment. You think Mursak will play on the 2nd line this year? And yes, I suggested someone who is a borderline NHL player to compete for a spot in camp, so that must mean I want Wade Belak on the team. Never said I wanted a goon on the team, but you keep tryin', bud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) You think Mursak will play on the 2nd line this year? And yes, I suggested someone who is a borderline NHL player to compete for a spot in camp, so that must mean I want Wade Belak on the team. Never said I wanted a goon on the team, but you keep tryin', bud. Not this season, but in the future, yes, as I said, I believe he can be a solid 3rd liner and even 2nd liner one day (Not saying for sure he will ever be anything, but the wings have developed him this long, he deserves his shot). As for the goon, when a player have as many fights in one season as points, in my book that player is probably a goon. Edited May 30, 2011 by Shaman464 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MGreenberg 105 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 I should have clarified. More weak from the standpoint that most of the players you mentioned will be payed more than Flip an probably won't produce much more. With the cap going up and few superstars available, I could see a lot of the players you mentioned being overpaid. The Wings need a second line forward and many of those you mentioned aren' much better producers than the Wings' current second liners. The problem with the Wings forwards is in the top six. Also, next season Homer and Bert may not return and it isn't clear who can take their top six spots. When you bring guys in from the outside that are solid 40+ point guys you aren't going to get them to play for the same amount as a guy like Filppula because he was drafted by the Wings. I don't see the problem in bringing in a 40+ point guy for 3.5 to 4.5 million who might produce the same as a second line guy but get played on the third line which could make teams have to worry about more lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 Not this season, but in the future, yes, as I said, I believe he can be a solid 3rd liner and even 2nd liner one day (Not saying for sure he will ever be anything, but the wings have developed him this long, he deserves his shot). As for the goon, when a player have as many fights in one season as points, in my book that player is probably a goon. I never said I didn't think he deserves a shot, I don't see anything wrong with competition in training camp, though. You're right I want nothing but goons on this team. Datsyuk for George Parros. Zetterberg for Colton Orr. Lidstrom for Matt Carkner. You caught me.. Yikes. 2 redwingfan19 and F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 I never said I didn't think he deserves a shot, I don't see anything wrong with competition in training camp, though. You're right I want nothing but goons on this team. Datsyuk for George Parros. Zetterberg for Colton Orr. Lidstrom for Matt Carkner. You caught me.. Yikes. The way you always seem to post that the missing piece the wings just cant win without is a fighter, I start to get the feeling that you would make those trades. The Wings don't need a fighter, you want them to have a fighter because you find fighting entertaining, if you would come out and affirm this statement and not make it seem like the only reason you want them to carry a fighter is because its their one dire need, I will stop arguing with you. 1 Finnish Wing reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 The way you always seem to post that the missing piece the wings just cant win without is a fighter, I start to get the feeling that you would make those trades. The Wings don't need a fighter, you want them to have a fighter because you find fighting entertaining, if you would come out and affirm this statement and not make it seem like the only reason you want them to carry a fighter is because its their one dire need, I will stop arguing with you. I do believe we need to bring defensively responsible players in, instead of focusing on offense, which I believe we are fine offensively. I believe we need to bring in a gritty player or two. To be clear, my definition of grit is going to the dirty areas to score, finishing your checks, tenaciously forechecking, and sticking up for your fellow teammates when needed, opposed to a goon who isn't going to do much more than fight. I am sick of watching lazy players get spots on the team simply because of loyalty. Hudler needs to go. I want players who will play hard every shift, regardless of the score or of the opponent. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WorkingOvertime 536 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 When you bring guys in from the outside that are solid 40+ point guys you aren't going to get them to play for the same amount as a guy like Filppula because he was drafted by the Wings. I don't see the problem in bringing in a 40+ point guy for 3.5 to 4.5 million who might produce the same as a second line guy but get played on the third line which could make teams have to worry about more lines. What defensively solid forward is available for 4.5 million that can score 50+ points (what I would expect from a second liner)? While the player can play third line this season, he will need to be a solid second liner in the future. IMO this player would have to fall though the cracks in the offseason or be acquired through trade. The way you always seem to post that the missing piece the wings just cant win without is a fighter, I start to get the feeling that you would make those trades. The Wings don't need a fighter, you want them to have a fighter because you find fighting entertaining, if you would come out and affirm this statement and not make it seem like the only reason you want them to carry a fighter is because its their one dire need, I will stop arguing with you. When was the last time the Wings won the cup without an enforcer playing in the regular season? Not that I think it's necessary but it is an interesting thought. Is a player that scores five less points than Miller (and can PK) but fight to stand up for his teammates really a regression for this team? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MGreenberg 105 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) What defensively solid forward is available for 4.5 million that can score 50+ points (what I would expect from a second liner)? While the player can play third line this season, he will need to be a solid second liner in the future. IMO this player would have to fall though the cracks in the offseason or be acquired through trade. (Those are for Forwards only, no D included) Top 2 Wings Blocked Shots - Miller; 58 and Abdelkader; 39 (Wings Average 22) Top 2 Wings Takeaways - Datsyuk; 71 and Zetterberg; 54 (Wings Average 27) Name - Blocked shots, Takeaways Tanguay - 38, 49 (69 Points) Fleischmann - 14, 26(45 games)(31 Points) Cole - 34, 65 (52 Points) Jokinen - 38, 39(52 Points) Laich - 54, 38 (48 Points) Vrbata - 22, 32 (48 Points) So all of these players are at or above the Wings average for giving up the body to block shots and take the puck away(aside from Fleischmann but he only played in 45). And I think if they wanted to come to the Wings for the right price they could add offense and do just as well defensively as other Wings. Edited May 30, 2011 by MGreenberg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,934 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 When was the last time the Wings won the cup without aenforcer player willing to drop his gloves and standup for his teammates playing in the regular season? Not that I think it's necessary but it is an interesting thought. Is a player that scores five less points than Miller (and can PK) but fight to stand up for his teammates really a regression for this team? "enforcer" is really a outdated term. Wings don't need a Marty McSorely, but a Dallas Drake would suffice... other than being on defense, Wisniewski would fill that role just fine....plus he would score a lot more than Miller... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 30, 2011 "enforcer" is really a outdated term. Wings don't need a Marty McSorely, but a Dallas Drake would suffice... other than being on defense, Wisniewski would fill that role just fine....plus he would score a lot more than Miller... The more I think about it the more Wisniewski makes sense for this team. He is 27 or 28 years old, local boy, right hand shot, puts up points and plays with snarl such as sticking up for his teammates. I think he may even take less to play for the Wings. If I were him and Holland made me a fair offer, I'd take it. I can live with a top 4 of Nick, Nick Jr, Stuart and Wiz. I agree with Kenny that Kronwall is now ready to step up and replace Rafalski as the #2 dman on the team. Maybe eventually replace Nick as the #1 guy (if anyone can really replace #5). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,934 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 Top 2 Wings Blocked Shots - Miller; 58 and Abdelkader; 39 (Wings Average 22) Top 2 Wings Takeaways - Datsyuk; 71 and Zetterberg; 54 (Wings Average 27) Name - Blocked shots, Takeaways Tanguay - 38, 49 (69 Points) Fleischmann - 14, 26(45 games)(31 Points) Cole - 34, 65 (52 Points) Jokinen - 38, 39(52 Points) Laich - 54, 38 (48 Points) Vrbata - 22, 32 (48 Points) So all of these players are at or above the Wings average for giving up the body to block shots and take the puck away(aside from Fleischmann but he only played in 45). And I think if they wanted to come to the Wings for the right price they could add offense and do just as well defensively as other Wings. not many folks agree, but I think Alex Tanguay would be wonderful on Datsyuk's wing...sure he is not as good defensively, but how many players are as good defensively as Datsyuk? but we don't have to look too far back to comapre, take Kozlov for instance, he wasn't the best defending forward, but he didn't have to be, he played with Larionov and Fedorov, whose defensive skill would never being questioned. Tanguay would be on a top line with Dastyuk and either Zetterberg or Filppula, again, who are all very, very good on that side of the puck... and the Wings would welcome 70+ more points from the forward unit... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MGreenberg 105 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 not many folks agree, but I think Alex Tanguay would be wonderful on Datsyuk's wing...sure he is not as good defensively, but how many players are as good defensively as Datsyuk? but we don't have to look too far back to comapre, take Kozlov for instance, he wasn't the best defending forward, but he didn't have to be, he played with Larionov and Fedorov, whose defensive skill would never being questioned. Tanguay would be on a top line with Dastyuk and either Zetterberg or Filppula, again, who are all very, very good on that side of the puck... and the Wings would welcome 70+ more points from the forward unit... I wouldn't mind him either but I think some fans expect every forward to be Datsyuk/Zetterberg like when it comes to defense. The only problem is that you couldn't have Tanguay and Fil on Datsyuk's wings since Holmstrom is glued to one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 30, 2011 I would get Ryan Kesler. Since he's a Michigan boy, I'm sure he'd demand a trade to the Red Wings if Holland made the team's interest clear. :lol: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 30, 2011 I would get Ryan Kesler. Since he's a Michigan boy, I'm sure he'd demand a trade to the Red Wings if Holland made the team's interest clear. :lol: Yeah lets get Kesler then. Hudler and a pick should do it. Get er done Kenny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 957 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) I would get Ryan Kesler. Since he's a Michigan boy, I'm sure he'd demand a trade to the Red Wings if Holland made the team's interest clear. :lol: Oh ya I saw that trade on these boards already. We got Kesler for Hudler and 3rd. Edited May 30, 2011 by 13dangledangle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) Oh ya that trade on these boards already. We got Kesler for Hudler and 3rd. We did? Alright! Great start to the off season Kenny boy! That will hurt the Canucks in the Cup Final. Not having Kesler. I'm sure Hudler will help them. I'll really miss the pick we gave up. Edited May 30, 2011 by Hatethedrake! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 (Those are for Forwards only, no D included) Top 2 Wings Blocked Shots - Miller; 58 and Abdelkader; 39 (Wings Average 22) Top 2 Wings Takeaways - Datsyuk; 71 and Zetterberg; 54 (Wings Average 27) Name - Blocked shots, Takeaways Tanguay - 38, 49 (69 Points) Fleischmann - 14, 26(45 games)(31 Points) Cole - 34, 65 (52 Points) Jokinen - 38, 39(52 Points) Laich - 54, 38 (48 Points) Vrbata - 22, 32 (48 Points) So all of these players are at or above the Wings average for giving up the body to block shots and take the puck away(aside from Fleischmann but he only played in 45). And I think if they wanted to come to the Wings for the right price they could add offense and do just as well defensively as other Wings. Ideally, Laich would be my top choice, but we all know Kenny isn't going to grossly overpay anyone. We all know he will be overpaid. TFP reported Edmonton could pursue him this summer. He's from Saskatchewan, maybe he'd like to play closer to home? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MGreenberg 105 Report post Posted May 30, 2011 Ideally, Laich would be my top choice, but we all know Kenny isn't going to grossly overpay anyone. We all know he will be overpaid. TFP reported Edmonton could pursue him this summer. He's from Saskatchewan, maybe he'd like to play closer to home? I don't know what you would consider overpaid because I know it varies for a lot of people. For example say a player got an extension for a team for around two million and he was an average 20-30 point guy at the time but then after that contract is up, he had been playing at a 40-55 point guy, I wouldn't see the problem in giving him a a 500k to 1.5M raise especially if he would be an improvement over some other players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
