kipwinger 8,520 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 Yeah but wouldn't it be smart of Holland to send an offer sheet on someone like Weber (not expecting to sign him) and force Nashville to pony up and spend more of their cap on him than they really want, in essence using money to sign him that they would like to use to sign Suter next year? Sort of like what San Jose did last year with Chicago and Jalmerson. In the end they had to pay way too much to keep him and ended up losing players they likely would have liked to keep. There's more than one reason to send offer sheets to guys. That said, I tend to agree with everyone here who suggests there's no way that the Wings outbid Nashville for Weber without breaking the bank, which would be dumb and not a good idea in the long run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwedeLundin77 460 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) So Holland says he's not going to be stupid and waste vital assets on RFAs. The GMs of said RFAs say they'll match any and all offers. Yet, the realists on LGW are the ones who need to check their heads? Careful on the generalization. Nashville's GM, David Poile, stated that he would match any offer sheet for Shea Weber. It could be assumed that a lot of GM's would do this, but let's not assume anything's impossible like some LGW'ers do. There is a difference between impossible and improbable. Being unrealistic is stating that we will trade Hudler for Ovechkin.... Unrealistic is not saying there is a chance (even if it is minimal) that an offer sheet is submitted if we lose Lidstrom as well. And also, classic to many arguments of this nature, people immediately put words in my mouth as I never directly stated we would send offer sheets to these players. Is it impossible to trade for the rights to Bogo or so on? No. Especially in the case of my original post on this topic... I stated that with Atlanta moving, some of their RFA's may not want to move with the team to icy Winnipeg and the uncertainty that lies within the organization (management, coaching, etc). People seem to just bounce back to the Shea Webber scenario. Edited May 31, 2011 by SwedeLundin77 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwedeLundin77 460 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 I think the vast majority here would agree with me... also realism ≠ pessimism There are plenty of UFA and trade options to discuss, so why dilute realistic discussions with impossible scenarios? Well were at it, lets discuss the option of trading Howard for Ryan Miller straight up... come on now... Classic example of blowing up my original point. You're saying trying to trade for an RFA or send an offer sheet is equal to a ridiculous trade? Come on now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 Classic example of blowing up my original point. You're saying trying to trade for an RFA or send an offer sheet is equal to a ridiculous trade? Come on now. You never mentioned trading for one of them in your original post... you said to sign them to an offer sheet. Those are COMPLETELY different things... and I was just using that as an example of how going out of the realm of reality just for the sake of something to talk about is not relevant, I was not comparing the two, don't take my words out of context, just because you're grasping at straws here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 Anything is possible... some people seem to forget this. Has Holland had any interest in doing this thus far? No. Certainly, certain circumstances could arise that make this kind of move a possibility for ANY team. Losing Rafalski and possibly losing Lidstrom also, are such circumstances. If you think, given these scenarios, that sending an offer sheet to an RFA is impossible/improbable, then you may need to check your head. Anything is not possible. This is elementary school where we tell the idiots that. Hudler for ovechkin is not possible. Detroit signing Weber this offseason is not possible. Is it possible that Detroit will target any RFAs this summer? No. Holland said he won't. Anything is not possible. You sound like rotoworld or bleacherreport who say Weber or Doughty or Bogo are on our radar. And yes, even if we had 20mil+ to spend in the offseason, even if we lost Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Zetterberg, it is improbable, nay, Impossible, that the Wings would sign any RFAs. Holland doesn't play that game. 1 stevkrause reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwedeLundin77 460 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 Anything is not possible. This is elementary school where we tell the idiots that. Hudler for ovechkin is not possible. Detroit signing Weber this offseason is not possible. Is it possible that Detroit will target any RFAs this summer? No. Holland said he won't. Anything is not possible. You sound like rotoworld or bleacherreport who say Weber or Doughty or Bogo are on our radar. And yes, even if we had 20mil+ to spend in the offseason, even if we lost Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Zetterberg, it is improbable, nay, Impossible, that the Wings would sign any RFAs. Holland doesn't play that game. For the last flipping time, I never said "offer sheet" in my original post. It was meant that we would obtain them by some means, and that means could be a trade, which is POSSIBLE. Not grasping at straws, I only mentioned offer sheet after the first unobservant person decided to interpret that out of my post. Holland does not always do what he says he will. He is a smart GM, and will consider ALL AVENUES when the need arises or the opportunity presents itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) For the last flipping time, I never said "offer sheet" in my original post. It was meant that we would obtain them by some means, and that means could be a trade, which is POSSIBLE. Not grasping at straws, I only mentioned offer sheet after the first unobservant person decided to interpret that out of my post. Holland does not always do what he says he will. He is a smart GM, and will consider ALL AVENUES when the need arises or the opportunity presents itself. Well now that Winnipeg is looking to be a lock, we should target their RFA's. Perhaps some of them may not want to stay now that the team is relocating and perhaps the team won't battle as hard to keep them if an offer sheet comes in. Zach Bogosian - $3,375,000 Andrew Ladd - $2,350,000 Blake Wheeler - $2,200,000 Anthony Stewart - $632,500 I wouldn't mind picking off any of these guys. Most notably Bogo, but he may be one player that Winnipeg will not let go, of course. Adding in any of the listed forwards would be good for the Wings as I think they'd fit in nicely and add a little size, youthful enthusiasm, and scoring depth. What do you think, folks? Edited May 31, 2011 by stevkrause Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwedeLundin77 460 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 I'll eat crow on that one. My point still stands that anything is possible and all the naysayers who want to say that it CAN'T can go stick their heads in the sand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I'll eat crow on that one. My point still stands that anything is possible and all the naysayers who want to say that it CAN'T can go stick their heads in the sand. Oh, I'll never say it can't... it's perfectly legal by the CBA. I just say it won't, for reasons also supported by the CBA (ability to match offer sheets, player having to accept offer sheets, ability to protect players from offer sheets with team-elected salary arbitration... etc) It's more likely a RFA is traded in any case, whether the GM's name is Holland or not. 1. The team with the player usually gets a better deal than the compensatory picks--or one more suited to their needs--via trade 2. The team making the trade gets to choose what assets they send out, and obviously the trade guarantees they get the player (rather than another team potentially offer sheeting him first, or the current team matching). Edited May 31, 2011 by Datsyerberger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Grayne Wetzky Report post Posted May 31, 2011 Wings need to let this offseason go. There's not enough out there. Save it for Matt Carle in 2012. He's my sleeper fantasy pick next year. 50 - 60 pt defenseman next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 Wings need to let this offseason go. There's not enough out there. Save it for Matt Carle in 2012. He's my sleeper fantasy pick next year. 50 - 60 pt defenseman next year. ...how many points did Wisniewski have last season again? Andrew Ladd has always been a favorite of mine. I remember when he was in Chicago I was hoping the Wings would pull something to get him. Fast forward to this year, I didn't know he may $2.3M, it would probably cost at least $3M for him to even consider an offer sheet from any team, and that is too steep in draft pick compensation for him...oh well... My wish list still remains: Wisniewski, Pitkanen (although he'd be pretty expensive,) J. Jokenin and/or Tanguay. (and Maybe a cheap Jovo to replace the greedy Ericsson) Jokenin(Tanguay) - Datsyuk - Filppula Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Franzen Cleary - Helm - Eaves Miller - Abdelkader - Holmstrom Mursak Lidstrom - Wisniewski Kronwall - Pitkanen Stuart - Jovo Kindl Howard Legace ( I put him down, because all we really need is a competent cheap back-up, and I happen to personally know he would sign for the absolute minimum, MINIMUM!) If PItkanen would prove too expensive, then maybe Anton Babchuk who would be considerably cheaper... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted June 1, 2011 ...how many points did Wisniewski have last season again? Andrew Ladd has always been a favorite of mine. I remember when he was in Chicago I was hoping the Wings would pull something to get him. Fast forward to this year, I didn't know he may $2.3M, it would probably cost at least $3M for him to even consider an offer sheet from any team, and that is too steep in draft pick compensation for him...oh well... My wish list still remains: Wisniewski, Pitkanen (although he'd be pretty expensive,) J. Jokenin and/or Tanguay. (and Maybe a cheap Jovo to replace the greedy Ericsson) Jokenin(Tanguay) - Datsyuk - Filppula Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Franzen Cleary - Helm - Eaves Miller - Abdelkader - Holmstrom Mursak Lidstrom - Wisniewski Kronwall - Pitkanen Stuart - Jovo Kindl Howard Legace ( I put him down, because all we really need is a competent cheap back-up, and I happen to personally know he would sign for the absolute minimum, MINIMUM!) If PItkanen would prove too expensive, then maybe Anton Babchuk who would be considerably cheaper... Pitkanen sucks for what he brings to the table. He can move the puck on the power play, and that's about it. He's horrendous defensively. Even 'Canes fans and bloggers will admit this. Legace is terrible. That's why he currently has no job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 Pitkanen sucks for what he brings to the table. He can move the puck on the power play, and that's about it. He's horrendous defensively. Even 'Canes fans and bloggers will admit this. He's not a shut-down guy, but he's far from 'horrendous' defensively. Better than Rafi, Ericsson or Salei. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 Pitkanen sucks for what he brings to the table. He can move the puck on the power play, and that's about it. He's horrendous defensively. Even 'Canes fans and bloggers will admit this. Legace is terrible. That's why he currently has no job. Legace is far from terrible... 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 Bring Legace back! 1 year, 750K. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 Being unrealistic is stating that we will trade Hudler for Ovechkin.... Unrealistic is not saying there is a chance (even if it is minimal) that an offer sheet is submitted if we lose Lidstrom as well. No, being unrealistic is stating that Washington will trade Ovechkin for Hudler. Holland BETTER ******* trade Hudler for Ovechkin if offered. Don't have the cap space? Make it. Waive Bertuzzi. Trade Stuart for a veteran stay-at-home guy and a decent pick. Between those three and the replacing players, the cap should be even or close to. Now we only need to get Washington to bite on an Ovechkin for Hudler deal. Would be even better if Hudler could be brought back as a UFA after Bert and Homer walk. Now back to your regularly scheduled reality. 1 WingZNut13 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingZNut13 99 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 I say let people wish for what they dream of. What's it gonna hurt? If anything, it keeps the suicide rate down. On the other hand, I think staying in the organization would be a smart move for this season and hit the market next season. Do what we can in the organization, if we have to go out of it, do it. Save the money and look for a UFA next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 I say let people wish for what they dream of. What's it gonna hurt? If anything, it keeps the suicide rate down. On the other hand, I think staying in the organization would be a smart move for this season and hit the market next season. Do what we can in the organization, if we have to go out of it, do it. Save the money and look for a UFA next season. The Wings have millions under the cap to replace Rafalski, and the only returning defensemen signed are Kronwall, Stuart, and Kindl. They WILL be picking someone up to replace Rafalski on the blueline, whether it be a forward signing and a forward trade for a defenseman, or a defenseman signing, or both. And that doesn't even factor in Lidstrom, Ericsson, and Salei. Lids likely returns, Salei is gone, and Ericsson is probably gone given his reported salary demands. So perhaps the Wings pick up two of the UFA defensemen available, say Pitkanen and Ehrhoff, and have a stocked blueline going forth. Lidstrom retires the same year Kronwall's deal expires, so Kronner's raise is covered by Nick's hit, and then a lesser defenseman (Smith?) is signed or brought in to fill the vacancy. Holmstrom also is likely retired at that point, opening up a good chunk of change up front which isn't terribly necessary for raises except for potentially Hudler, but could be used for a new acquisition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finnish Wing 110 Report post Posted June 1, 2011 I see Pitkanen and Jokinen ending up in a same team. That way they can execute that "Karpat"-tactic on the PP. They're good childhood friends as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Holmstrom also is likely retired at that point, opening up a good chunk of change up front which isn't terribly necessary for raises except for potentially Hudler, but could be used for a new acquisition. I wasn't aware that you had such a well-developed sense of humor, eva. Edited June 2, 2011 by Crymson 1 e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted June 2, 2011 I see Pitkanen and Jokinen ending up in a same team. That way they can execute that "Karpat"-tactic on the PP. They're good childhood friends as well. whats karpat????? sounds cool Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted June 2, 2011 I wasn't aware that you had such a well-developed sense of humor, eva. So Hudler doesn't get a raise beyond his current deal if he hits a completely reasonable target of 60 points? Now you're getting a little silly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted June 2, 2011 So Hudler doesn't get a raise beyond his current deal if he hits a completely reasonable target of 60 points? Now you're getting a little silly. One-dimensional roleplayers don't get huge contracts. Of course, you seem incapable of understanding that Hudler is either one-dimensional or a roleplayer. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted June 2, 2011 One-dimensional roleplayers don't get huge contracts. Are we watching the same league? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted June 2, 2011 So Hudler doesn't get a raise beyond his current deal if he hits a completely reasonable target of 60 points? Now you're getting a little silly. Silly is, with Helm and Kronwall also on expiring contracts, Hudler is the raise you're worried about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
