Changes in the offseason

[IllinoisRedWingsFan 49]

Decent team expect I can't see Kenny Boy offering Lids only $3 Million to stay. Even though he should take a cut I think. Also we need to move Hudler but no one wants him.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Kris Draper ($0.800m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.100m) / Chris Drury ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m)

James Wisniewski ($4.500m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,171,211; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,028,789

This lineup gives us 14 forwards and seven d. Allows us to sign both Wis and Pitkanen as well as add an experienced Chris Drury to anchor our third line centre position. These would be the lines i would run...

Fil- Dats- Homer

Bert- Z- Mule

Huds- Drury- Cleary

Abby- Helm- Eaves

Mursak

Draper

Lids- Wis

Stuart- Pitkanen

Kronwall- Kindl

Janik

Howie

Ozzy

PP1

Fil- Dats- Homer

Wiz Lids

PP2

Hudler- Z- Mule

Pitkanen Kronwall

What do you guys think?

[hooon 1,089]

Remember how astonishingly awful the Hudler-Modano-Cleary third line was? I'm not sure a Hudler-Drury-Cleary line would be any kind of improvement.

[kipwinger 8,524]

To take this in a different direction, can anyone make a case for Ian White and Niclas Wallin of the Sharks as possible alternatives to the defensive holes that need to be filled. Both are good, stay at home defenseman. The problems I see are these: 1. Neither can reproduce the kind of offensive numbers Rafalski put up, so that's lost. White was acquired in a trade for a first round pick so SJ is probably going to want to re-sign him. Wallin is at best a third pair guy, and makes 2.5 mil, so he'd have to come down a little bit (he's 36, so it's realistic) in order to take over the Ericsson role, but he was a stud in the playoffs (against us anyway).

Because they are on the west coast I really haven't seen either of them play enough for me to say anything about them either way. Any thoughts?

Edited June 9, 2011 by kipwinger

[Nyquistfan14 489]

Remember how astonishingly awful the Hudler-Modano-Cleary third line was? I'm not sure a Hudler-Drury-Cleary line would be any kind of improvement.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised. Hudler and Cleary did play well when together later in the season and i just feel Drury could be a perfect cheap fit for this team that needs a right handed faceoff man, a good shutdown player, that can also chip in offensively and move up in the lineup if injuries occur.

Decent team expect I can't see Kenny Boy offering Lids only $3 Million to stay. Even though he should take a cut I think. Also we need to move Hudler but no one wants him.

Lids is making 6 mill not 3 mill

[stevkrause 1,247]

To take this in a different direction, what are everyone's thoughts on Ian White and Niclas Wallin of the Sharks as possible alternatives to the defensive holes that need to be filled. Both are good, stay at home defenseman. The problems I see are these: 1. Neither can reproduce the kind of offensive numbers Rafalski put up, so that's lost. White was acquired in a trade for a first round pick so SJ is probably going to want to re-sign him. Wallin is at best a third pair guy, and makes 2.5 mil, so he'd have to come down a little bit (he's 36, so it's realistic) in order to take over the Ericsson role, but he was a stud in the playoffs (against us anyway).

Because they are on the west coast I really haven't seen either of them play enough for me to say anything about them either way. Any thoughts?

As you already touched on, Ian White will most likely be re-signed, but would be a good addition here, the only problem would be his price tag, he probably will get more than I'd be ok with us paying him, as for Wallin, also as you already touched on, he's a 3rd pairing at best and unless he came WAY down, he's not worth the money he'll want either... also, I'd much rather have Montador as our bottom pairing addition

[kipwinger 8,524]

As you already touched on, Ian White will most likely be re-signed, but would be a good addition here, the only problem would be his price tag, he probably will get more than I'd be ok with us paying him, as for Wallin, also as you already touched on, he's a 3rd pairing at best and unless he came WAY down, he's not worth the money he'll want either... also, I'd much rather have Montador as our bottom pairing addition

Yeah I like Montador a lot. He's a better fit, and comes from a very defensively responsible system which is always real positive for an FA pick up. With those third pair guys, it's about getting a lot of bang for the buck, which is why I was curious about the Wallin thing. But at similar prices you're absolutely right, Montador is the better choice.

[Guest Crymson]

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Kris Draper ($0.800m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.100m) / Chris Drury ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m)

James Wisniewski ($4.500m) / Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.800m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,171,211; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,028,789

I find it unlikely that, given the free agent pool, Drury will be bought out with only one year left on his deal.

I earnestly hope you do not actually want Joni Pitkanen at $5m per year. He's not worth it.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Crymson

[Nyquistfan14 489]

I find it unlikely that, given the free agent pool, Drury will be bought out with only one year left on his deal.

I earnestly hope you do not actually want Joni Pitkanen at $5m per year. He's not worth it.

Drury is being bought out by the rangers so thats why i suggested him. And with all the cap space we would have left who would you sign instead of Pitkanen?

Edit: I would give that money to either Pitkanen, Bieksa, or Erhoff. Actually most preferably Erhoff

Edited June 9, 2011 by Flipper51

[eva unit zero 271]

Remember how astonishingly awful the Hudler-Modano-Cleary third line was? I'm not sure a Hudler-Drury-Cleary line would be any kind of improvement.

The problems with the Hudler/Modano/Cleary line were as follows:

1) All three players had terrible starts to the season; the fact they were all on a line together only magnified this.

2) The Hudler/Modano combination working was extremely unlikely. Modano's offensive style was to take the puck on a rush and get off a quick shot, and possibly a second shot, which didn't work while with Hudler's average speed. Hudler worked best on long-term puck possession in the zone setting up a high-quality shot, which is something that didn't work well with Modano's tendency to take a shot whenever he had a clear line. Cleary, meanwhile, was having serious trouble handling the puck (I think he may have been injured) and this led to complete ineffectiveness from that line. Hudler and Cleary were very effective together when together with any other center. Drury is much more similar to the team's current centers in offensive style than Modano, so the chances of that line working well would be much greater. Especially with Hudler and Cleary likely to have better starts to their seasons.

[greenrebellion 415]

No Ian White, guy doesn't have any heart or desire.

One thing I recall from watching him in the Wings/Sharks series is he had an opportunity to block a shot and he turns away from it in order to avoid being hit, it ends up resulting in a pivotal Wings goal. He was consistently brutal defensively in that series and was on the ice for all four goals against in one of the Wings games.

[kipwinger 8,524]

No Ian White, guy doesn't have any heart or desire.

One thing I recall from watching him in the Wings/Sharks series is he had an opportunity to block a shot and he turns away from it in order to avoid being hit, it ends up resulting in a pivotal Wings goal. He was consistently brutal defensively in that series and was on the ice for all four goals against in one of the Wings games.

Fair enough. Like I said, I haven't really seen them too much, but sounds like trouble.

[Guest Crymson]

Drury is being bought out by the rangers so thats why i suggested him. And with all the cap space we would have left who would you sign instead of Pitkanen?

Edit: I would give that money to either Pitkanen, Bieksa, or Erhoff. Actually most preferably Erhoff

You're right about Drury, apparently. I just read the article about it.

As for Pitkanen, management is hardly a matter of, "Oh, there may not be anyone much better this season, so let's overpay somebody for years to come." No thanks on Pitkanen. He's awful defensively and is only above-average offensively.

[eva unit zero 271]

You're right about Drury, apparently. I just read the article about it.

As for Pitkanen, management is hardly a matter of, "Oh, there may not be anyone much better this season, so let's overpay somebody for years to come." No thanks on Pitkanen. He's awful defensively and is only above-average offensively.

It's not just "there's not many other guys at his level this year" but moreover, it's "there's not many guys at his level for the next three years".

Next summer defensive FAs include Suter, Burns, Coburn, Liles, Carle, Coliacovo among others. The summer after features Enstrom, Edler, Vlasic, Leopold, Lydman, Whitney.

The Wings see Kronwall and Stuart go UFA next summer, plus Lidstrom if he doesn't retire. Hudler, Bert, and Homer UFA plus Helm and Abby RFA. So a defense of Kronwall, Suter, Pitkanen, Kindl, Smith, and some random #3rd pair guy for less than $1.5m doesn't sound ok heading into 2012-13? If we're lucky, maybe we can get one of the second-tier guys who plays solid defense and has a good physical game, like Lydman or Whitney, to replace "some guy" on my roster here. I'd say that brings it to a pretty solid unit. Lydman is probably the best bet, because he's the oldest but he's shown to be durable and consistent. Mark Streit is the same age and probably a better player, but has had serious injury issues and might even be retired by then if they continue. Streit is not a physical player, yet has missed 130 games since the lockout, including all of last season, while Lydman is a very physical player and has only missed 44.

Lydman is also an excellent shot blocker - something the Wings desperately need. Only five players blocked more shots last season, and Beachemin while blocking more had a lower blocks-per-game rate. A couple of defensemen talked about as potential acquisitions are also productive shot blockers; Roman Hamrlik, Matt Carle, Anton Babchuk, and Ian White were all top-30 in total shots blocked. Going further into the top 60, and you get Tomas Kaberle, Andrej Meszaros, Jay Bouwmeester, Braydon Coburn, and Joni Pitkanen.

All of those guys are ahead of the Wings' leader, Niklas Kronwall. Brad Stuart would have posted a higher total than Bouwmeester and Coburn with equal games played.

As for the mention of Ian White now and earlier in the thread, and whether or not you want to spend money on him; Derek Meech has a very similar skill set to White, although he isn't quite as effective a shot-blocker. Then again, not many are. Meech could be a sub-$1m alternative to Ian White.

[Datsyerberger 279]

It's not just "there's not many other guys at his level this year" but moreover, it's "there's not many guys at his level for the next three years".

Next summer defensive FAs include Suter, Burns, Coburn, Liles, Carle, Coliacovo among others. The summer after features Enstrom, Edler, Vlasic, Leopold, Lydman, Whitney.

On the other hand, even though there's not many in any year, it's a quality thing. This year's crop all has serious risks.

Pitkanen: Defensive questions, drive/determination questions

Wiz: Dumb penalties, lazy defense, personality questions

Bieksa: Consistency, penalties, price (if Nucks even let him go)

Ehrhoff: Probably safest bet, defensive questions but offense arguably worth it

and so on

Burns, Suter, Enstrom, and Edler are all way more attractive than those options. 2 each year. I think that 3/4 of those will sign with their current teams but I hope Detroit throws serious money at any of them that reaches FA. Some of the secondary options in those years are as good or almost as good as the primary options this year.

[eva unit zero 271]

On the other hand, even though there's not many in any year, it's a quality thing. This year's crop all has serious risks.

Pitkanen: Defensive questions, drive/determination questions

Wiz: Dumb penalties, lazy defense, personality questions

Bieksa: Consistency, penalties, price (if Nucks even let him go)

Ehrhoff: Probably safest bet, defensive questions but offense arguably worth it

and so on

Burns, Suter, Enstrom, and Edler are all way more attractive than those options. 2 each year. I think that 3/4 of those will sign with their current teams but I hope Detroit throws serious money at any of them that reaches FA. Some of the secondary options in those years are as good or almost as good as the primary options this year.

Enstrom and Edler are the most attractive options... so of course they're a couple of years away. Lydman, Suter, Burns are the only other guys I would put on the level of the four guys you listed.

There are other UFAs I didn't list in those years (such as Gonchar); I simply listed those who were younger and fit what the Wings will or should be looking for at that point.

[Buppy 1,720]

We really only need 2 FA dmen, Janik is a perfectly serviceable 7th dman and this 2nd year of his deal was a 1 way contract, so I'm pretty sure they're going to carry him as their depth dman...

I know the bigger names (Bieksa, Wisniewski, Ehrhoff, etc) are the ones everyone is really clamoring about, but I know Kenny will do the right thing about that 1-4 dman addition, it's the bottom pairing that I REALLY have my heart set on and that's Steve Montador - Shouldn't cost us more than 2m TOPS, is incredibly solid defensively, physical, good shot and kills penalties... not a whole lot of offensive upside and maybe isn't the fastest guy in the world, but makes good decisions and his positioning make up for it (once again, keep in mind, we're talking for the bottom pairing)... I also think he'd be the EXACT type of pairing partner to allow Kindl to really flourish, as they're styles really compliment each other well... (one stay at home, other offensive minded, one is smooth and moves the puck, not too physical, the other is more bruising, clears the crease and will get nasty when needed)

I'd rather have Meech for a 7th. I really have no idea why everyone seems to love Janik so much...

That said; Montador, Eminger, Harrison, Hejda, SOB, and even Salei are all solid bottom pair guys. We should have plenty of room to add two of them and not worry about borderline NHLers at all. Not sure what the natural side is for all those guys (or Kindl for that matter). My preference would be one naturally opposite Kindl, and one (or both I guess) comfortable either side.

[Buppy 1,720]

On the other hand, even though there's not many in any year, it's a quality thing. This year's crop all has serious risks.

Pitkanen: Defensive questions, drive/determination questions

Wiz: Dumb penalties, lazy defense, personality questions

Bieksa: Consistency, penalties, price (if Nucks even let him go)

Ehrhoff: Probably safest bet, defensive questions but offense arguably worth it

and so on

Burns, Suter, Enstrom, and Edler are all way more attractive than those options. 2 each year. I think that 3/4 of those will sign with their current teams but I hope Detroit throws serious money at any of them that reaches FA. Some of the secondary options in those years are as good or almost as good as the primary options this year.

Regardless of how much better those guys are than what's available this year, they can't help us this year. We need someone this year who can fill Rafi's spot...PP QB, preferably (but not absolutely) RH shot, leading the breakout. Bieksa doesn't really fit, but maybe compensates in other areas. The other three (and maybe add Kaberle, Markov, and Babchuk to that list) would fill our need.

We have fantastic flexibility in the next few years. We could add any one of those guys for even the high-end of their market value and fill the rst of the roster with quality role players and still have the freedom to go after Burns or Suter next year. Nor do we have to offer a long-term deal. Make a two year offer at a little higher rate and then we have the ability to go after Enstrom or Edler the year after next.

[13dangledangle 965]

Im nervous of all the things Ive read this offseason of Lidstrom. It sounds like he doesnt really want to come back-or know he does...same thing to me!-The back end without Lids is offence without???

Edited June 10, 2011 by 13dangledangle

[Konnan511 1,736]

Only on LGW would Drury be signed for under 1.5mil.

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

Just bored with too much time on my hands.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Brad Richards ($6.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)

/ Drew Miller ($0.800m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($2.000m) / Ed Jovanovski ($3.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Ty Conklin ($1.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $62,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,767,044; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$267,044

[stevkrause 1,247]

I'd rather have Meech for a 7th. I really have no idea why everyone seems to love Janik so much...

That said; Montador, Eminger, Harrison, Hejda, SOB, and even Salei are all solid bottom pair guys. We should have plenty of room to add two of them and not worry about borderline NHLers at all. Not sure what the natural side is for all those guys (or Kindl for that matter). My preference would be one naturally opposite Kindl, and one (or both I guess) comfortable either side.

Meech has already stated that it's probably time for him to move on and he's a FA... Janik is already signed for another year and this year of his deal is a one way deal, it's not a matter of preference, it's a pretty cut and dry issue by the contract who is more likely to be the 7th dman this fall...

I'd be ok with Hejda as well, but I, but out of that list, I think Montador is the best fir here...

[dirtydangles 1,328]

A lot of people are talking about tweaking here and there but in reality we need to make a big move. We need to bring in guys that can help us beat SJ, Vancouver on a regular basis. I see this being a trade for a young top pairing dman and a big ufa signing (richards). otherwise its gonna be another second round exit to a team that is bigger and younger. Our team is good to cruise through the regular season on top but when the playoffs come, we don't have the ability to compete with larger and younger teams when it counts.

[xtrememachine1 795]

A lot of people are talking about tweaking here and there but in reality we need to make a big move. We need to bring in guys that can help us beat SJ, Vancouver on a regular basis. I see this being a trade for a young top pairing dman and a big ufa signing (richards). otherwise its gonna be another second round exit to a team that is bigger and younger. Our team is good to cruise through the regular season on top but when the playoffs come, we don't have the ability to compete with larger and younger teams when it counts.

I'm not so sure a big move is needed because "we don't have ability to compete with larger and younger teams". A big move this offseason will be necessary if Lidstrom retires, but aside from that I don't think we are required to make a HUGE move. IMO, if we win Game 7, we're playing in the Finals right now. Let's face it, the Wings were on a hot streak and the Sharks finished their season losing 7 of their last 9 games. I don't feel like major moves are necessary, but having said that I would like to see them make some moves that address some flaws, like PK, back up goaltending, powerplay QB and a top 6 forward. While Richards would solve the last two issues and *I* would try to sign him, I don't expect it to happen and those problems can be addressed without making big moves.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I'm not so sure a big move is needed because "we don't have ability to compete with larger and younger teams". A big move this offseason will be necessary if Lidstrom retires, but aside from that I don't think we are required to make a HUGE move. IMO, if we win Game 7, we're playing in the Finals right now. Let's face it, the Wings were on a hot streak and the Sharks finished their season losing 7 of their last 9 games. I don't feel like major moves are necessary, but having said that I would like to see them make some moves that address some flaws, like PK, back up goaltending, powerplay QB and a top 6 forward. While Richards would solve the last two issues and *I* would try to sign him, I don't expect it to happen and those problems can be addressed without making big moves.

Agreed... short of a big TRADE there are no FA worth making a big signing over, a mid-high end such as Wiz or Bieksa if they can be had for reasonable price, but high end, no. Richards is not even what we really need, just another passer... if we're looking up front, we need to go sniper, not play maker

[Kerjuxaxaxa 6]

Agreed... short of a big TRADE there are no FA worth making a big signing over, a mid-high end such as Wiz or Bieksa if they can be had for reasonable price, but high end, no. Richards is not even what we really need, just another passer... if we're looking up front, we need to go sniper, not play maker

Sniper for which line?