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#321 Shaman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 01:12 PM

Quick facts about FA that LGW posters seem oblivious to:

Discounts:
Players like Richards are willing to take a discount to play for a better team, but hes looking at 7-8 million depending on the team he signs for, hes not going to take a 20% pay cut to play for Detroit, sorry. Do I think Holland gives him a call? Sure, if only to drive his price up for other teams, but I dont see him coming to Detroit, and if he does, no way for less than 7 a year.

RFA:
Holland doesn't poach players, and players like Weber and Doughty are not the type teams walk away from even for multiple high picks, if the wings get them it'll mean players, prospects and picks going back to the respective trading partners. Personally again if I were Holland after the statement by Nashville management that they would match any offer given to Weber would offer him something outrageous so that Sutter could become in option in 2012, but Nashville won't let Weber go.

Grit:
Yes the wings need some, but come on guys, fighting and grit aren't always the same thing, and don't disguise your want for an enforcer by playing at the wings need for energy guys who are willing to go to the dirty parts of the ice or clear the front of the net.

Flavor of the months:
If the Wings don't pick up Wiz/konopka/etc and he has a bad season, I will bet everyone who wanted him will be deriding him next season, just saying.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#322 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 04:13 PM

Here's a scenario:

Let's say the Cap goes up to about $63.5M. That'll give Holland $22.6M before he signs anyone. Let's say he trade Hudler at the draft for some more pick(s), that then makes the Cap total available $24.5M. We all have our "Wish List" and most of us know that that's all it will be is a wish list, so considering the fact that they were a very good team (offensively anyhow) in the regular season, would anyone be that upset if Holland remained 'Status Quo' and just re-signed his own UFA's? Of course excluding Draper, Modano & Salei and just allowing the younger guys to come up and play. I know the general consensus is that Smith will/should spend another season in the Griffins line-up, but what if Holland just sign's Ericcson, Smith would be getting good ice time/experience up here anyway.

Anyhow, icing a similar team next season would kill two birds, it'll allow for plenty of room for a HUGE trade-line acquisition (if needed,) especially if there are some non-playoff teams with an upcoming UFA that is looking to dump him knowing they are going to lose him anyway. (ex. if Nashville is way out of it, they could do this with Suter if they feel they can't sign him anyhow.) It also saves a large amount of cap space for July 1st, 2012 which promises to have a better crop of UFA's available... Now, I am a huge Wisniewski advocate and would love to see him here, and in reality, even in this scenario they could throw $4M at him for a season and still have a lot left over for the deadline.. (which is what I am hoping. (of course you can put your Wish List d-man in place of mine.))

Anyhow, let's see how it looks with some Capgeek numbers... (please don't neg me if you don't agree, just voice your opinion, thanks!)

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.100m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Drew Miller ($0.950m)
/ Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($2.500m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,704,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $11,795,456

...I realize that is a very lean defensive corps, and like I said, Holland could always sign one D-Man to fill the top 6 and keep Smith in Grand Rapids. Also, I just gave some modest raises to the UFA's with the exception of Ericsson, giving consideration to the rumor he turned down $2M... I for one, hope that Holland at least adds ONE d-man from outside the organization, but I believe, up front, that this lineup cannot hurt the Wings considering all they are losing is Hudler's offense(orlack there of,) and that isn't much of a loss. But as you can see it leaves plenty of cap space for March or July...

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#323 Shaman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 04:46 PM

Here's a scenario:

Let's say the Cap goes up to about $63.5M. That'll give Holland $22.6M before he signs anyone. Let's say he trade Hudler at the draft for some more pick(s), that then makes the Cap total available $24.5M. We all have our "Wish List" and most of us know that that's all it will be is a wish list, so considering the fact that they were a very good team (offensively anyhow) in the regular season, would anyone be that upset if Holland remained 'Status Quo' and just re-signed his own UFA's? Of course excluding Draper, Modano & Salei and just allowing the younger guys to come up and play. I know the general consensus is that Smith will/should spend another season in the Griffins line-up, but what if Holland just sign's Ericcson, Smith would be getting good ice time/experience up here anyway.

Anyhow, icing a similar team next season would kill two birds, it'll allow for plenty of room for a HUGE trade-line acquisition (if needed,) especially if there are some non-playoff teams with an upcoming UFA that is looking to dump him knowing they are going to lose him anyway. (ex. if Nashville is way out of it, they could do this with Suter if they feel they can't sign him anyhow.) It also saves a large amount of cap space for July 1st, 2012 which promises to have a better crop of UFA's available... Now, I am a huge Wisniewski advocate and would love to see him here, and in reality, even in this scenario they could throw $4M at him for a season and still have a lot left over for the deadline.. (which is what I am hoping. (of course you can put your Wish List d-man in place of mine.))

Anyhow, let's see how it looks with some Capgeek numbers... (please don't neg me if you don't agree, just voice your opinion, thanks!)

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.100m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Drew Miller ($0.950m)
/ Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($2.500m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,704,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $11,795,456

...I realize that is a very lean defensive corps, and like I said, Holland could always sign one D-Man to fill the top 6 and keep Smith in Grand Rapids. Also, I just gave some modest raises to the UFA's with the exception of Ericsson, giving consideration to the rumor he turned down $2M... I for one, hope that Holland at least adds ONE d-man from outside the organization, but I believe, up front, that this lineup cannot hurt the Wings considering all they are losing is Hudler's offense(orlack there of,) and that isn't much of a loss. But as you can see it leaves plenty of cap space for March or July...

No way this roster makes the playoffs.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#324 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:06 PM

No way this roster makes the playoffs.

I don't see why not. Up front you really only lose Hudler, and I don't think Mursak can do any worse than Hudler did, and really, with Modano's injury I don't see Emmerton hurting us either. I do acknowledge the D is pretty green, but like I said, if you wanna add Wisniewski instead of promoting Smith, then that would cretainly be an upgrade, espeially if Wiz scores 50 plus points again, but other than that, this team should make the playoffs easily, win their division maybe, conference probably not, but come January/February Holland has $11M to acquire some high-end talent to help in the playoffs...

Which part would you change? Maybe Emmerton or Ericsson...I am not sure, but I would hate for Holland to blow his "cap load" on UFA's outside the organization and not have the team gel. At least we know (with the exception of Emmerton) that this team can pay well together, well enough to make the playoffs in my opinion...

That being said, I do maintain that it would be nice to acquire Jokinen up front, re-sign Lids/Miller/Eaves and sign Wiz and Pitkanen. Back-up goalie is a toss up, I just threw MacDonald in there, but as long as it's a back-up for less than $1M, because Howard will probably get 60-65 starts, and who wants to pay a goalie over a million to start less than 20 games?

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#325 TheOwl

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:15 PM

I don't see why not. Up front you really only lose Hudler, and I don't think Mursak can do any worse than Hudler did, and really, with Modano's injury I don't see Emmerton hurting us either. I do acknowledge the D is pretty green, but like I said, if you wanna add Wisniewski instead of promoting Smith, then that would cretainly be an upgrade, espeially if Wiz scores 50 plus points again, but other than that, this team should make the playoffs easily, win their division maybe, conference probably not, but come January/February Holland has $11M to acquire some high-end talent to help in the playoffs...

Which part would you change? Maybe Emmerton or Ericsson...I am not sure, but I would hate for Holland to blow his "cap load" on UFA's outside the organization and not have the team gel. At least we know (with the exception of Emmerton) that this team can pay well together, well enough to make the playoffs in my opinion...

That being said, I do maintain that it would be nice to acquire Jokinen up front, re-sign Lids/Miller/Eaves and sign Wiz and Pitkanen. Back-up goalie is a toss up, I just threw MacDonald in there, but as long as it's a back-up for less than $1M, because Howard will probably get 60-65 starts, and who wants to pay a goalie over a million to start less than 20 games?


I totally agree. The Wings would easily make the play-offs with the roster above. Rafalski was a liability for most of the season. He's slow, pinched way to often, and gave up way too many odd-man rushes. Replacing him with almost anyone in the system would be a positive step forward. Brad Stuart could replace him on the powerplay. The Wings spend way too much money on a team of mediocre defense-men. The Wings were awful defensively 80% of the season. Why spend 1/3 of the cap on defense if the defense sucks? If the Wings can't get one of the UFA Canuck defense men, they should hang onto the cap money, and spend it on a forward (5 million/yr). Wings need another top 6 forward. The defense will sort itself out, we spend enough on D.

#326 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:18 PM

I don't see why not. Up front you really only lose Hudler, and I don't think Mursak can do any worse than Hudler did, and really, with Modano's injury I don't see Emmerton hurting us either. I do acknowledge the D is pretty green, but like I said, if you wanna add Wisniewski instead of promoting Smith, then that would cretainly be an upgrade, espeially if Wiz scores 50 plus points again, but other than that, this team should make the playoffs easily, win their division maybe, conference probably not, but come January/February Holland has $11M to acquire some high-end talent to help in the playoffs...

Which part would you change? Maybe Emmerton or Ericsson...I am not sure, but I would hate for Holland to blow his "cap load" on UFA's outside the organization and not have the team gel. At least we know (with the exception of Emmerton) that this team can pay well together, well enough to make the playoffs in my opinion...

That being said, I do maintain that it would be nice to acquire Jokinen up front, re-sign Lids/Miller/Eaves and sign Wiz and Pitkanen. Back-up goalie is a toss up, I just threw MacDonald in there, but as long as it's a back-up for less than $1M, because Howard will probably get 60-65 starts, and who wants to pay a goalie over a million to start less than 20 games?


I think this line-up would make the playoffs however I don't think it would get very far. I like your idea of keeping Cap space for next summer where both Weber and Suter may be available as UFAs. Ideally, Weber would be the perfect player to replace Nick when he retires. If Weber signs a long term deal with Nashville then it will be harder for them to lock up Suter. If he is available on July 1st, 2012 then the Wings would be in a great position to sign him with Nick coming off the books. If the Preds can manage to keep both Weber and Suter (which I think they will) then Kenny would have to explore other options. Maybe Yandle is a UFA by then.

I just can't see the Wings going with a bottom D pairing of Kindl and Smith for this season. They would likely have to spread it out more. Nick, Kronwall and Stuart would have to be split up. With Ericsson, Kindl and Smith playing with 1 of them. Janik as the #7 guy does not excite me. A vet dman in the Salei mold would likely be signed.

My favourite part of your post is Hudler being gone. I just can't see Kenny being inactive on July 1st where this will most likely be Nick's last season. This doesn't mean he going to be stupid and throw gobs of cash at the wrong players. Just that staying the same doesn't seem to be what Kenny has been saying since the Wings were eliminated.
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#327 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:25 PM

I totally agree. The Wings would easily make the play-offs with the roster above. Rafalski was a liability for most of the season. He's slow, pinched way to often, and gave up way too many odd-man rushes. Replacing him with almost anyone in the system would be a positive step forward. Brad Stuart could replace him on the powerplay. The Wings spend way too much money on a team of mediocre defense-men. The Wings were awful defensively 80% of the season. Why spend 1/3 of the cap on defense if the defense sucks? If the Wings can't get one of the UFA Canuck defense men, they should hang onto the cap money, and spend it on a forward (5 million/yr). Wings need another top 6 forward. The defense will sort itself out, we spend enough on D.

do we really NEED a top 6 forward? I do not know exactly where the Wings finished in offensive numbers last season but losing Hudler and Modano and replacing them with Mursak and Emmerton (along with gving full time jobs to Miller and Eaves) shouldn't really affect their offensinve productoin considering the top 6 wold pretty much be entact from last year...

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi, Cleary & Holmstrom...basically....

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#328 Shaman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

I don't see why not. Up front you really only lose Hudler, and I don't think Mursak can do any worse than Hudler did, and really, with Modano's injury I don't see Emmerton hurting us either. I do acknowledge the D is pretty green, but like I said, if you wanna add Wisniewski instead of promoting Smith, then that would cretainly be an upgrade, espeially if Wiz scores 50 plus points again, but other than that, this team should make the playoffs easily, win their division maybe, conference probably not, but come January/February Holland has $11M to acquire some high-end talent to help in the playoffs...

Which part would you change? Maybe Emmerton or Ericsson...I am not sure, but I would hate for Holland to blow his "cap load" on UFA's outside the organization and not have the team gel. At least we know (with the exception of Emmerton) that this team can pay well together, well enough to make the playoffs in my opinion...

That being said, I do maintain that it would be nice to acquire Jokinen up front, re-sign Lids/Miller/Eaves and sign Wiz and Pitkanen. Back-up goalie is a toss up, I just threw MacDonald in there, but as long as it's a back-up for less than $1M, because Howard will probably get 60-65 starts, and who wants to pay a goalie over a million to start less than 20 games?

Reasons why I don't see them making a playoffs with that roster are:
Losses not covered:

1. Defensive/PK hole of the last couple seasons
2. PP/ES points from Rafalski
3. Loss of secondary scoring

No Depth:
As evidenced by the last couple years, injuries are on an up swing, and say what you want about Hudler, any loss of secondary scoring will hurt. This fact would be compounded by the fact that this roster has almost no (proven) scoring depth outside the first two lines besides Cleary (I don't see Bert on the third line). So if anyone in the first two lines goes down, especially Z or D the wings will be in dire straights, especially with the loss of offense provided by Rafi.

Salary cap going up/Central getting tougher: Every team willing to spend will have a buffer to spend, and if the wings don't other teams in the central will. Couple this with every team aside from Columbus coming into next season better than last season, its not going to be a cake walk for the Wings.

Bottom line is Detroit has a solid core, but there are holes in the roster that if not addressed could mean the Wings will struggle to make the playoffs come next April.


do we really NEED a top 6 forward? I do not know exactly where the Wings finished in offensive numbers last season but losing Hudler and Modano and replacing them with Mursak and Emmerton (along with gving full time jobs to Miller and Eaves) shouldn't really affect their offensinve productoin considering the top 6 wold pretty much be entact from last year...

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi, Cleary & Holmstrom...basically....


Homer at least is a year older, Zetterberg save for last season has is normal mid season back injury, Flip, Franzen, Bert and Cleary all have a bad habit of disapearing for long periods. I think adding scoring somewhere in the roster (front end or back end) would be a good thing.

Edited by Shaman464, 29 May 2011 - 05:32 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#329 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:33 PM

I think this line-up would make the playoffs however I don't think it would get very far. I like your idea of keeping Cap space for next summer where both Weber and Suter may be available as UFAs. Ideally, Weber would be the perfect player to replace Nick when he retires. If Weber signs a long term deal with Nashville then it will be harder for them to lock up Suter. If he is available on July 1st, 2012 then the Wings would be in a great position to sign him with Nick coming off the books. If the Preds can manage to keep both Weber and Suter (which I think they will) then Kenny would have to explore other options. Maybe Yandle is a UFA by then.

I just can't see the Wings going with a bottom D pairing of Kindl and Smith for this season. They would likely have to spread it out more. Nick, Kronwall and Stuart would have to be split up. With Ericsson, Kindl and Smith playing with 1 of them. Janik as the #7 guy does not excite me. A vet dman in the Salei mold would likely be signed.

My favourite part of your post is Hudler being gone. I just can't see Kenny being inactive on July 1st where this will most likely be Nick's last season. This doesn't mean he going to be stupid and throw gobs of cash at the wrong players. Just that staying the same doesn't seem to be what Kenny has been saying since the Wings were eliminated.

agreed, I think if Holland added Wiz or even if he wanted a Jovo type player that would at least make Kindl battle Smith for the 6th spot... I am all for another top 6 guy, but is it absolutely needed considering where the Wings were offensively last season? Mursak is at least equal to Hudler and giving Miller/Eaves full time jobs can only be a positive thing... the 13th forward can be anyone really, I just threw Emmerton there because I think he is out of options to Grand Rapids...

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#330 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:33 PM

do we really NEED a top 6 forward? I do not know exactly where the Wings finished in offensive numbers last season but losing Hudler and Modano and replacing them with Mursak and Emmerton (along with gving full time jobs to Miller and Eaves) shouldn't really affect their offensinve productoin considering the top 6 wold pretty much be entact from last year...

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi, Cleary & Holmstrom...basically....


Holmstrom and Bertuzzi are not legit top 6 forwards anymore. This is why Babs said recently the team needs another top 6 guy. Holmstrom plays with Datsyuk basically because he can't play with anyone else at even strength. Bert has good chemistry with Z and Mule so they should not be split up. Bert will score 10 goals in 20 games and then score 1 in the next 30. Holmstrom only adds value on the PP with his net presence. We need to be better 5 on 5. Harder to play against. Franzen is the only sniper we have on the wing which scares teams. It would be nice to have another guy like Hossa was for us in 2009. Especially if Mule gets injured which he does alot of the time. Mursak may eventually be the guy who will become that scoring winger. However he is just a rookie and will need time to adjust to the league. We need a guy now who can take advantage of Dats and Z's playmaking abilities and score goals.
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#331 Buppy

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:40 PM

I don't see why not. Up front you really only lose Hudler, and I don't think Mursak can do any worse than Hudler did, and really, with Modano's injury I don't see Emmerton hurting us either. I do acknowledge the D is pretty green, but like I said, if you wanna add Wisniewski instead of promoting Smith, then that would cretainly be an upgrade, espeially if Wiz scores 50 plus points again, but other than that, this team should make the playoffs easily, win their division maybe, conference probably not, but come January/February Holland has $11M to acquire some high-end talent to help in the playoffs...

Which part would you change? Maybe Emmerton or Ericsson...I am not sure, but I would hate for Holland to blow his "cap load" on UFA's outside the organization and not have the team gel. At least we know (with the exception of Emmerton) that this team can pay well together, well enough to make the playoffs in my opinion...

That being said, I do maintain that it would be nice to acquire Jokinen up front, re-sign Lids/Miller/Eaves and sign Wiz and Pitkanen. Back-up goalie is a toss up, I just threw MacDonald in there, but as long as it's a back-up for less than $1M, because Howard will probably get 60-65 starts, and who wants to pay a goalie over a million to start less than 20 games?

Keep in mind that the cap is a cumulative daily calculation, and savings can be banked for later use. $11M in free space would translate to around $50M in free space at the deadline. There's no possible way we could use even close to that much, so you're essentially just wasting it.

For a team like the Wings that actually makes money, saving anything more than $2-3M would be horribly, horribly wasteful. If you want to save money for next summer, then just give 1 year deals this summer. You pay a premium, but that's better than throwing it away.

#332 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:41 PM

agreed, I think if Holland added Wiz or even if he wanted a Jovo type player that would at least make Kindl battle Smith for the 6th spot... I am all for another top 6 guy, but is it absolutely needed considering where the Wings were offensively last season? Mursak is at least equal to Hudler and giving Miller/Eaves full time jobs can only be a positive thing... the 13th forward can be anyone really, I just threw Emmerton there because I think he is out of options to Grand Rapids...


Emmerton will be given every chance to make the team however he is in a similar spot which Ritola was in last Training Camp. If he is not good enough then he will be gone. I'm 50/50 on whether he makes the team or not. It's hard to judge the wings scoring prowess in the playoffs because of Franzen's injury. If he's healthy, I think we beat the Sharks. But he wasn't and we didn't so woulda, coulda, shoulda...

This is why I think we need some insurance in case Mule does down with another injury. Think back to 2009 when Mule went down early in the season and we had Hossa as our ace in the hole. It would be nice to have that again. Mursak's speed is much needed so I will be happy to replace Hudler with that element. I don't mind having both Eaves and Miller on the team. Their work ethic and PK prowess make them useful. I see Miller as the 13th forward and maybe Emmerton as the 14th if he makes the team.

I'm all for signing Wisniewski but I watched Jovo and he looks done to me. Wiz is just entering his prime and may get even better than he is now.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#333 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:43 PM

Reasons why I don't see them making a playoffs with that roster are:
Losses not covered:

1. Defensive/PK hole of the last couple seasons
2. PP/ES points from Rafalski
3. Loss of secondary scoring

No Depth:
As evidenced by the last couple years, injuries are on an up swing, and say what you want about Hudler, any loss of secondary scoring will hurt. This fact would be compounded by the fact that this roster has almost no (proven) scoring depth outside the first two lines besides Cleary (I don't see Bert on the third line). So if anyone in the first two lines goes down, especially Z or D the wings will be in dire straights, especially with the loss of offense provided by Rafi.

Salary cap going up/Central getting tougher: Every team willing to spend will have a buffer to spend, and if the wings don't other teams in the central will. Couple this with every team aside from Columbus coming into next season better than last season, its not going to be a cake walk for the Wings.

Bottom line is Detroit has a solid core, but there are holes in the roster that if not addressed could mean the Wings will struggle to make the playoffs come next April.




Homer at least is a year older, Zetterberg save for last season has is normal mid season back injury, Flip, Franzen, Bert and Cleary all have a bad habit of disapearing for long periods. I think adding scoring somewhere in the roster (front end or back end) would be a good thing.

Makes sense, but having $11M available, if someone out of the top 6 were to go down again for an extended period, there is always a trade option. I am just saying it is possible that Mursak steps in and out performs Hudler's offense and having MIller and Eaves full time could only help really. I really didn't make line combos, just added players on the capgeek calculator. I think Z, Bert and Franz play great together as well as Fil, Dats and Homer. Cleary with Helm and Eaves sounds like a nice line too.

I do agree though, a nice top 6 guy would be very nice, but that would pretty much mean you either say goodbye to Miller or risk Emmerton to waivers(which may not be that big of loss IF someone claimed him.) IMO, Miller has earned more than a 13th forward position, but I am not Holland or Babcock, so who knows. I know they have high hopes or Mursak, so they may try him at different lines to see who he gels with before they designate him to the 13th spot... (then again I think they had the same hopes for Leino and he never really gelled with anyone...)

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#334 Shaman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:50 PM

Makes sense, but having $11M available, if someone out of the top 6 were to go down again for an extended period, there is always a trade option. I am just saying it is possible that Mursak steps in and out performs Hudler's offense and having MIller and Eaves full time could only help really. I really didn't make line combos, just added players on the capgeek calculator. I think Z, Bert and Franz play great together as well as Fil, Dats and Homer. Cleary with Helm and Eaves sounds like a nice line too.

I do agree though, a nice top 6 guy would be very nice, but that would pretty much mean you either say goodbye to Miller or risk Emmerton to waivers(which may not be that big of loss IF someone claimed him.) IMO, Miller has earned more than a 13th forward position, but I am not Holland or Babcock, so who knows. I know they have high hopes or Mursak, so they may try him at different lines to see who he gels with before they designate him to the 13th spot... (then again I think they had the same hopes for Leino and he never really gelled with anyone...)

Well, a trade isn't just about cap space, any other team will be asking for pieces (prospects, picks and or players), thats the best advantage to picking up pieces in FA, not having to give up anything other than cap space.

Miller is a great 12/13th forward, and I really like him, Emmerton seems to be the one who has to earn his spot. My contention is that addition to points will come from the back end, where competition for spots isn't there, especially with Holland not wanting to bring up players from GR too quickly. If the Wings add a guy upfront I would be very happy, but they NEED to add someone on the back end.
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#335 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:52 PM

Emmerton will be given every chance to make the team however he is in a similar spot which Ritola was in last Training Camp. If he is not good enough then he will be gone. I'm 50/50 on whether he makes the team or not. It's hard to judge the wings scoring prowess in the playoffs because of Franzen's injury. If he's healthy, I think we beat the Sharks. But he wasn't and we didn't so woulda, coulda, shoulda...

This is why I think we need some insurance in case Mule does down with another injury. Think back to 2009 when Mule went down early in the season and we had Hossa as our ace in the hole. It would be nice to have that again. Mursak's speed is much needed so I will be happy to replace Hudler with that element. I don't mind having both Eaves and Miller on the team. Their work ethic and PK prowess make them useful. I see Miller as the 13th forward and maybe Emmerton as the 14th if he makes the team.

I'm all for signing Wisniewski but I watched Jovo and he looks done to me. Wiz is just entering his prime and may get even better than he is now.

I see your points on all of that. Question is, is there a "Hossa" out there for Holland to sign/acquire, or are the likes Tanguay/Jokinen pretty much the closest thing the secondary scoring you are referring to? Either of which I would welcome here and would probably score 30+ goals playing with Dats and Flip on the first line... but I really cannot find a Hossa-type UFA out there (outside of Richards) so someone would have to be traded for and in reality who would someone want off our team in exchange for their pure sniper without raping our prospects?

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#336 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 05:57 PM

Makes sense, but having $11M available, if someone out of the top 6 were to go down again for an extended period, there is always a trade option. I am just saying it is possible that Mursak steps in and out performs Hudler's offense and having MIller and Eaves full time could only help really. I really didn't make line combos, just added players on the capgeek calculator. I think Z, Bert and Franz play great together as well as Fil, Dats and Homer. Cleary with Helm and Eaves sounds like a nice line too.

I do agree though, a nice top 6 guy would be very nice, but that would pretty much mean you either say goodbye to Miller or risk Emmerton to waivers(which may not be that big of loss IF someone claimed him.) IMO, Miller has earned more than a 13th forward position, but I am not Holland or Babcock, so who knows. I know they have high hopes or Mursak, so they may try him at different lines to see who he gels with before they designate him to the 13th spot... (then again I think they had the same hopes for Leino and he never really gelled with anyone...)


I like Miller's work ethic and Pk ability. He has the right attitude for a player and he gives it all every shift he is out there. However if I have to sacrifice a player with his salary to get the top 6 scoring winger I need to improve my team then I do it. Guys like Miller can be replaced fairly easily whether it be in a cheap UFA signing late in the summer or off the waiver wire (which is where we acquired Miller). Top 6 scoring wingers are hard to replace. Have we replaced Hossa yet? Nope. Now Kenny will not sign a guy for the sake of signing a guy. He has to be the proper kind of player at the proper price. Kenny is very good at managing the Cap and he will make the right decision. If we just lose Hudler and don't sign anyone, I am fine with that. However if he expect to match the Sharks or Canucks' depth going forward, we need more bullets in the chamber to fire at them than we currently have. The Sharks depth was better than our depth and this is the main reason why they beat us for the second year in a row. Like Kenny says, he has to find a way to be 1 goal better than they are.

I see your points on all of that. Question is, is there a "Hossa" out there for Holland to sign/acquire, or are the likes Tanguay/Jokinen pretty much the closest thing the secondary scoring you are referring to? Either of which I would welcome here and would probably score 30+ goals playing with Dats and Flip on the first line... but I really cannot find a Hossa-type UFA out there (outside of Richards) so someone would have to be traded for and in reality who would someone want off our team in exchange for their pure sniper without raping our prospects?


Please don't say 'raping our prospects.' :lol: I agree that there is no Hossa to be had in UFA or maybe even in a trade. Maybe guys like Carter and Semin are available but likely not. Carter is a centre anyway. I don't like the idea of paying 2nd tier wingers 1st tier money. This ties in with Kenny being very good at managing the Cap. Maybe Kenny does nothing and then gives the whole 'we're keeping our Cap space and may do something at the deadline' company line. Kenny will explore and try to improve this team. But if nothing makes sense than he may stand pat. It's much harder now with the parity in the league, most teams think they have a shot at being a playoff team and or winning the Cup. Some teams need to spend to reach the Salary Floor. Teams would likely want Filppula in any trade first and foremost. I think Kenny would deal him for the right player but not just for any player.
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#337 Shaman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 06:02 PM

What the wings need is a couple guys to play in the top 9 for the next 2-3 years, after that the Wings have a great crop of forwards that will be ready to play in the NHL. Until then there is a need for a couple stop gaps.
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#338 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 06:03 PM

Here's a scenario:

Let's say the Cap goes up to about $63.5M. That'll give Holland $22.6M before he signs anyone. Let's say he trade Hudler at the draft for some more pick(s), that then makes the Cap total available $24.5M. We all have our "Wish List" and most of us know that that's all it will be is a wish list, so considering the fact that they were a very good team (offensively anyhow) in the regular season, would anyone be that upset if Holland remained 'Status Quo' and just re-signed his own UFA's? Of course excluding Draper, Modano & Salei and just allowing the younger guys to come up and play. I know the general consensus is that Smith will/should spend another season in the Griffins line-up, but what if Holland just sign's Ericcson, Smith would be getting good ice time/experience up here anyway.

Anyhow, icing a similar team next season would kill two birds, it'll allow for plenty of room for a HUGE trade-line acquisition (if needed,) especially if there are some non-playoff teams with an upcoming UFA that is looking to dump him knowing they are going to lose him anyway. (ex. if Nashville is way out of it, they could do this with Suter if they feel they can't sign him anyhow.) It also saves a large amount of cap space for July 1st, 2012 which promises to have a better crop of UFA's available... Now, I am a huge Wisniewski advocate and would love to see him here, and in reality, even in this scenario they could throw $4M at him for a season and still have a lot left over for the deadline.. (which is what I am hoping. (of course you can put your Wish List d-man in place of mine.))

Anyhow, let's see how it looks with some Capgeek numbers... (please don't neg me if you don't agree, just voice your opinion, thanks!)

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.100m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Drew Miller ($0.950m)
/ Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($2.500m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,704,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $11,795,456

...I realize that is a very lean defensive corps, and like I said, Holland could always sign one D-Man to fill the top 6 and keep Smith in Grand Rapids. Also, I just gave some modest raises to the UFA's with the exception of Ericsson, giving consideration to the rumor he turned down $2M... I for one, hope that Holland at least adds ONE d-man from outside the organization, but I believe, up front, that this lineup cannot hurt the Wings considering all they are losing is Hudler's offense(orlack there of,) and that isn't much of a loss. But as you can see it leaves plenty of cap space for March or July...

Not a bad idea. UFA signings this off-season look weak for both forward and defense. The only player (other than Hudler) that I wouldn't mind trading is Franzen, and this is due to his contract (I can't imagine the Mule's body in five years, and ten more seasons is too much IMO). Assuming Hudler is traded and the Wings promote from within only we could have.
Flip- Dats- Homer
Mule- Z- Cleary
Tatar- Abby- Bert
Eaves- Helm- Mursak
Tardif

Lids- Smith
Kronner- Kindl
E- Stuart

Howard
J. Mac

While the D certainly needs at least one UFA/trade signing, the offense doesn't look terrible. I would be happy with Holland keeping some cap-space assuming a trade is made sometime throughout the season. IMO letting Tatar play the first ~20 games would be great for his game, and the Wings can always trade and send him back to GR if needed. I'd sign Wiz and possibly a backup (although J. Mac played well enough), and then see what holes need to be filled throughout the season.

#339 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 06:06 PM

Kronwall 385 games 181 pts Stuart 795 games 284 pts
Lidstrom 1494 games 1108 pts Smith nil
Kindl 51 games 4 pts Ericsson 163 games 33 pts.

Edited by Andy Pred 48, 29 May 2011 - 06:14 PM.

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#340 Shaman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 06:10 PM

Kronwall Stuart
Lidstrom Smith
Kindl Ericsson

This is one of the weakest top 6 in the NHL. Lids is still a #1, but no ones a #2, Stuart would be 3.5, so would Kronwall, so they are great together, Smith isn't ready, he needs one more season in GR before I would even think about him in the NHL, and Kindl/Ericsson... oh my, the GA. Bringing in wisniewski, and or pitkanen would add another 3/4 defenseman to the wings, and if you get both, and let Ericsson walk, well, honestly I would say the Defense is that much stronger.

Lidstrom-Wiz
Kronwall-Pitkanen
Stuart-Kindl
Janik

That looks a lot more solid to me.

Edited by Shaman464, 29 May 2011 - 06:14 PM.

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