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#641 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 01:17 PM

Here's what I saw when I read the cap numbers of that roster:



Just being honest.

hahaha "lolomgwtfbbq" :ph34r: :lol:

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#642 eva unit zero

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:24 PM

I'd never underestimate the power of a Jedi Master.

Let's offer six million for Weber or Doughty. What happens? The other teams match. We offer 6 mil for Burns. What happens? They don't match, we lose 4 first rounders and drastically overpaid for an above average defenseman.

Holland offers 6 mil (total) for two top 4 UFA DMen. What happens? We get two good DMen without giving up any assets. Plus, you're also assuming that the players we'd make offers for are of equal skill or better when in reality only one is. The rest are worst.


Burns is a UFA next year, not an RFA.

And my comparison was specifically Burns to Rafalski, as far as your "youth" comment.

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#643 Konnan511

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:52 PM


Burns is a UFA next year, not an RFA.

And my comparison was specifically Burns to Rafalski, as far as your "youth" comment.


Still doesn't take away from my overall point in regards to your "youth" comment.
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#644 eva unit zero

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:19 PM

Still doesn't take away from my overall point in regards to your "youth" comment.


Wait, do you mean this one?


If he's replacing a player who made similar money and was similar skill or worse, but ten to fifteen years older... why not? Because? You underestimate the power of the... Ken Holland.


I don't see how your statement has any relation to what I said at all, other than the fact that you brought up Holland coming up with alternatives to trying to sign Weber or Doughty; which isn't the point because that brings RFA into the argument. Burns is currently signed and turns UFA next summer. It's like dropping Rafalski for Ehrhoff. What do you lose? He's younger, cheaper, less injured, better player (right now) so why would Holland not make that move with Rafalski retiring? Tell me PLEASE what your logic is on this?
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#645 krsmith17

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:45 AM

I know a lot of people are going to hate some of these signings but they all make sense to me, and right now I am Ken Holland so this is what the team would look like next season. Feel free to bash any of my moves but quite frankly I don't care what all the know-it-all, wanna-be GM's think, just throwing some ideas out there...

My main goal was to find some solid right-handed shots to add to the line-up. I think it really hurts us having a team 95% left-handed shots, especially on the powerplay and in the faceoff circle...

So let's get to it....

Up front I started out with Draper and Modano retiring. Then I resigned Eaves to a reasonable $850k ($100k raise), let Miller walk and traded Hudler for a prospect and a late round 2011 draft pick.

First, to replace Hudler I signed Nikolai Zherdev to one-year $1.75m, a slight pay-cut due to the fact that he is running out of options in the NHL, but I am willing to take a gamble on him. Also, knowing he would start the season playing alongside Datsyuk helped lure him here. I know a lot of people are sceptical about this signing just because of his lack of defensive ability, but let's be honest, was Hudler that much of a better defensive forward, hell no. And with Zherdev's offensive upside I'd take him in a heart beat, so I did. Put him on a line with Datsyuk and Filppula (two of the three most defensively aware forwards on the team) and not only would it make up for his lack of defense but it would help his defensive game watching these two guys working their asses off at both ends of the ice. Zherdev is more than capable of putting up 50-60 points on the top line with Pav and Fil.
Then I went out and signed Tim Connolly to a three-year $4.5m per, to fill the void of a right-handed centerman we desperately need. I don't think it would be too much to think Connolly could put up 40-50 points in a third line role with Bert and Cleary.

So my Forward Lines look something like this...

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($1.750m)
Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Tim Connolly ($4.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.850m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

I think they're solid looking lines with a lot of chemistry and depth... Mursak and Emmerton would be our first call-ups and could possibly be inserted into some sort of rotation involving Abdelkader, Eaves and possibly Holmstrom... If Holmstrom were the odd man out I would have Cleary up in his slot with Hank and Mule, bump Abby up with Connolly and Bert and Mursak with Helm and Eaves, another solid option in my opinion...


On the back end I started out with Rafalski retiring, letting Salei walk, Lidstrom resigning a possible final one-year $6m contract, and Ericsson resigning at a reasonable three-year $2.2m per contract.

Then I went out looking for two solid right-handed shots, one that could chip in offensively and help out on the power-play (replacement for Rafalski), and the other to give us a little more depth and help out on the penalty kill (replacement for Salei). So I signed James Wisniewski to a four-year $3.75m contract and Anton Babchuk to a one-year $1.8m contract, two perfect replacements to help out our team and give us a little more balance and depth on the back end. No, I don't think Wisniewski is going to completely fill the loss of Rafalski, but he can definitely help us out. He's not going to make that first breakout pass like Rafi could and there's not too many in the league that can but he brings just as much to the table in my opinion. He's a slight upgrade in size but much harder on the puck and can clear the front of the net as good as anyone and is not afraid to drop the gloves. Not to mention he can put up pretty reasonable numbers, he's not a quarterback on the power-play but can defintely help out if paired with Lidstrom which I would do for the first PP unit. As for Babchuk, I think he is an upgrade to Salei and would pair great with Ericsson. Babchuk is not quite the same stay at home style defenseman as Salei, he is a little more mobile and has a decent shot from the point.

So my Defense Lines look something like this...

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / James Wisniewski ($3.750m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($2.200m) / Anton Babchuk ($1.800m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Like the forwards, my main goal was to pair guys that I think would complement each others style of play, would mesh well together, as well as looking for balance in the pairings.


When looking at the goalie situation, first Ozzie retires and I let Joey MacDonald walk. Now I'm looking for a decent goaltender for a reasonable price that can play 25 - 35 games when called upon. So I signed Brian Boucher to one-year $850k. Boucher is a decent back-up goaltender that can play well behind another solid goalie, he had a decent season last year but struggled in the playoffs when he was the number one guy. I think the pressure got to him a little but as long as Jimmy can stay healthy and on top of his game I think Boucher is very competent to play a solid 25+ games for us.

So the goalies look like this...

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.825m)


CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,692,044; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,807,956

I think this team is capable of not only making the playoffs but as long as we're relatively healthy we can win it all in 2012. We still have a little flexibility with $2.8m in cap space to make a move at the trade deadline if necessary.



#646 hockey23

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 11:24 AM

--Reply to krsmith17--

-No thanks to Connolly. $4.5M is too much for someone who has only played in 70 games one time since the lockout.
-I'm not a fan of Zherdev at all, and I highly doubt Holland would even consider him
-We will not get Wisniewski for $3.75M
-A Babchuk-Ericsson pairing would cause every LGW'er to gouge their eyes out within the first month of the season.

#647 Crymson

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 11:27 AM

Edit: Meh, screw it; I'm not going to spend time responding to the idea of those signings.

Edited by Crymson, 12 June 2011 - 11:31 AM.


#648 krsmith17

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 01:11 PM

HAHAHAHAHA F*CKIN HILARIOUS....

God Damn Trolls have nothing good to say about any ideas....

--Reply to hockey23--

-Yes Tim Connolly has only played in 70 games one time since the lockout but you failed to mention that he has 250 points in 302 games since the lockout (0.828 points per game). Which isn't bad playing on a team like the Sabres. He was also playing on the top line for the majority of his time in Buffalo and you can argue that his points per game won't be as high playing on our third line but he also won't be playing against top players in the league all the time. He can easily put up 40-50 points, that along with the fact that he's a right-handed centerman that we desperately need I think he's well worth $4.5m.
Let's look at a comparable cap hit on our team shall we... Johan Franzen's cap hit is $500k less ($3,954,545) but his salary for the 2011-12 season is $750k more ($5,250,000)... Seems how you're so fascinated with passed numbers, since the lockout Franzen has played in 395 games and put up 219 points (0.554), (significantly lower than Connolly wouldn't you say?) and yes his point totals are getting higher, but his injuries are becoming more frequent meaning, like Connolly neither are expected to play a full 82 games...

-Honestly, I don't really care who is or isn't a fan of Zherdev, the guy would put up big numbers on a line with Datsyuk and that's all I care about. Can you or anyone honestly say you were a huge fan of Hossa? I doubt it, he's an offensively gifted player like Zherdev and before he came here he lacked on the defensive side of the game like Zherdev. He was put on a line with Datsyuk for the better part of the year and he flourished in his role and began to quickly learn defense playing alongside the best defensive forward in the world...

-I'd love to know how you are so confident we would not be able to sign Wisniewski for $3.75m? Because no players have come here or any other team for discounts at a real chance to win the cup... Not to mention it being his home state, so he was more than like a Wings fan growing up. And remember, I did have $2.8m in left over cap so if he wanted $4-4.25m I say we still go for it, he's a good defenseman with a lot of upside...

-A Babchuk-Ericsson pairing would cause every LGW'er to gouge their eyes out within the first month of the season. Hahaha I'd love to hear the explanation of this one... let me guess... another Ericsson hater... Both are young guys (27 years old) so they're bound to make mistakes, but they both also have a lot of upside... So if it doesn't work out split them up, there are countless ways to pair the 7 defenseman...

Keep complaining about everything fella's, I'd hate to have your negativity... I feel for you, I really do... actually not all that much.....

#649 Datsyerberger

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 01:31 PM

HAHAHAHAHA F*CKIN HILARIOUS....

God Damn Trolls have nothing good to say about any ideas....

--Reply to hockey23--

-Yes Tim Connolly has only played in 70 games one time since the lockout but you failed to mention that he has 250 points in 302 games since the lockout (0.828 points per game). Which isn't bad playing on a team like the Sabres. He was also playing on the top line for the majority of his time in Buffalo and you can argue that his points per game won't be as high playing on our third line but he also won't be playing against top players in the league all the time. He can easily put up 40-50 points, that along with the fact that he's a right-handed centerman that we desperately need I think he's well worth $4.5m.
Let's look at a comparable cap hit on our team shall we... Johan Franzen's cap hit is $500k less ($3,954,545) but his salary for the 2011-12 season is $750k more ($5,250,000)... Seems how you're so fascinated with passed numbers, since the lockout Franzen has played in 395 games and put up 219 points (0.554), (significantly lower than Connolly wouldn't you say?) and yes his point totals are getting higher, but his injuries are becoming more frequent meaning, like Connolly neither are expected to play a full 82 games...

-Honestly, I don't really care who is or isn't a fan of Zherdev, the guy would put up big numbers on a line with Datsyuk and that's all I care about. Can you or anyone honestly say you were a huge fan of Hossa? I doubt it, he's an offensively gifted player like Zherdev and before he came here he lacked on the defensive side of the game like Zherdev. He was put on a line with Datsyuk for the better part of the year and he flourished in his role and began to quickly learn defense playing alongside the best defensive forward in the world...

-I'd love to know how you are so confident we would not be able to sign Wisniewski for $3.75m? Because no players have come here or any other team for discounts at a real chance to win the cup... Not to mention it being his home state, so he was more than like a Wings fan growing up. And remember, I did have $2.8m in left over cap so if he wanted $4-4.25m I say we still go for it, he's a good defenseman with a lot of upside...

-A Babchuk-Ericsson pairing would cause every LGW'er to gouge their eyes out within the first month of the season. Hahaha I'd love to hear the explanation of this one... let me guess... another Ericsson hater... Both are young guys (27 years old) so they're bound to make mistakes, but they both also have a lot of upside... So if it doesn't work out split them up, there are countless ways to pair the 7 defenseman...

Keep complaining about everything fella's, I'd hate to have your negativity... I feel for you, I really do... actually not all that much.....


Uhhh. Okay, I personally agree with you about Connolly. I like Connolly. However, I'd rather us a (scoring) winger than a (playmaking) center. We have the latter in droves; the former, not so much. I think a team who needs a good center more will be more willing to pay Connolly. I wouldn't mind taking him for the right price... however, aforementioned needy teams will likely pay him more.

Now to the bolded: lololololol no, not even close. Many people here were fans of Hossa beforehand, self included. And he was certainly not a defensive bum before he came here. Hossa was recognized as one of the best backchecking wingers in the league and had a solid record of Selke votes before ever coming to the Wings. On top of that, he's far more offensively skilled and consistent than Zherdev, and a much harder worker. Zherdev has major attitude and commitment issues. They're very different... I suggest you do more research.

We won't get Wiz for 3.75. Actually, at this point I don't think we'll get him at all; last I read Montreal was rumored to be focusing on re-signing him and Markov. In any case, if he goes FA he'll get more than that and I'm not sure I'd want him anyhow (good offense, but he's got a lot of baggage). But even with baggage, if there's one thing that GMs pay for consistently, it's offense, particularly offense from the blueline. He'll get more than he probably should. Also, just because he's from Michigan doesn't mean he likes it and wants to come back. I'm from Florida and haven't missed a day apart from it. Not everyone likes where they come from.

A Babchuk and Ericsson pairing WOULD cause everyone to gauge their eyes out. I'm all for bringing Babchuk in for the right price and I don't mind Ericsson, either. However, aside from them both preferring the right side of the ice (afaik), a pairing of those two would be brutal. Kronwall - Babchuk, Lidstrom - Ericsson, Stuart - Kindl? That's better.

In regards to negativity.. well, personally, I'd rather be realistic and be happy when my expectations are exceeded than be foolishly optimistic and face likely disappointment.

Edited by Datsyerberger, 12 June 2011 - 01:32 PM.

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#650 hockey23

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 01:53 PM

HAHAHAHAHA F*CKIN HILARIOUS....

God Damn Trolls have nothing good to say about any ideas....

--Reply to hockey23--

-Yes Tim Connolly has only played in 70 games one time since the lockout but you failed to mention that he has 250 points in 302 games since the lockout (0.828 points per game). Which isn't bad playing on a team like the Sabres. He was also playing on the top line for the majority of his time in Buffalo and you can argue that his points per game won't be as high playing on our third line but he also won't be playing against top players in the league all the time. He can easily put up 40-50 points, that along with the fact that he's a right-handed centerman that we desperately need I think he's well worth $4.5m.
Let's look at a comparable cap hit on our team shall we... Johan Franzen's cap hit is $500k less ($3,954,545) but his salary for the 2011-12 season is $750k more ($5,250,000)... Seems how you're so fascinated with passed numbers, since the lockout Franzen has played in 395 games and put up 219 points (0.554), (significantly lower than Connolly wouldn't you say?) and yes his point totals are getting higher, but his injuries are becoming more frequent meaning, like Connolly neither are expected to play a full 82 games...

Connolly isn't a bad suggestion, but I just think $4.5M is too much when our needs are defense and scoring wingers. Also, Holland has recently said that the top 6 to top 9 forwards are set, so I don't think it's realistic.

-Honestly, I don't really care who is or isn't a fan of Zherdev, the guy would put up big numbers on a line with Datsyuk and that's all I care about. Can you or anyone honestly say you were a huge fan of Hossa? I doubt it, he's an offensively gifted player like Zherdev and before he came here he lacked on the defensive side of the game like Zherdev. He was put on a line with Datsyuk for the better part of the year and he flourished in his role and began to quickly learn defense playing alongside the best defensive forward in the world...


Datsyerberger basically covered this. Hossa was considered a perfect fit with the Wings because of his great two-way play. He's nothing like Zherdev.

-I'd love to know how you are so confident we would not be able to sign Wisniewski for $3.75m? Because no players have come here or any other team for discounts at a real chance to win the cup... Not to mention it being his home state, so he was more than like a Wings fan growing up. And remember, I did have $2.8m in left over cap so if he wanted $4-4.25m I say we still go for it, he's a good defenseman with a lot of upside...


It's just based on reports and speculation, but everything I have read leads me to believe that he'll get $4.5+. Also, the cap could be $62.2M so that $2.8M in space would become $1.5M.

-A Babchuk-Ericsson pairing would cause every LGW'er to gouge their eyes out within the first month of the season. Hahaha I'd love to hear the explanation of this one... let me guess... another Ericsson hater... Both are young guys (27 years old) so they're bound to make mistakes, but they both also have a lot of upside... So if it doesn't work out split them up, there are countless ways to pair the 7 defenseman...


Ericsson and Babchuk are not strong defensively and are prone to turnovers. I would be scared every time those 2 came on the ice. Splitting them up would require one of them to essentially be a top-4 d-man and play against other teams' top 2 lines. That might be even worse.

#651 Buppy

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 02:15 PM

...
--Reply to hockey23--

-Yes Tim Connolly has only played in 70 games one time since the lockout but you failed to mention that he has 250 points in 302 games since the lockout (0.828 points per game). Which isn't bad playing on a team like the Sabres. He was also playing on the top line for the majority of his time in Buffalo and you can argue that his points per game won't be as high playing on our third line but he also won't be playing against top players in the league all the time. He can easily put up 40-50 points, that along with the fact that he's a right-handed centerman that we desperately need I think he's well worth $4.5m.
...

-Honestly, I don't really care who is or isn't a fan of Zherdev, the guy would put up big numbers on a line with Datsyuk and that's all I care about. Can you or anyone honestly say you were a huge fan of Hossa? I doubt it, he's an offensively gifted player like Zherdev and before he came here he lacked on the defensive side of the game like Zherdev. He was put on a line with Datsyuk for the better part of the year and he flourished in his role and began to quickly learn defense playing alongside the best defensive forward in the world...

-I'd love to know how you are so confident we would not be able to sign Wisniewski for $3.75m? Because no players have come here or any other team for discounts at a real chance to win the cup... Not to mention it being his home state, so he was more than like a Wings fan growing up. And remember, I did have $2.8m in left over cap so if he wanted $4-4.25m I say we still go for it, he's a good defenseman with a lot of upside...

-A Babchuk-Ericsson pairing would cause every LGW'er to gouge their eyes out within the first month of the season. Hahaha I'd love to hear the explanation of this one... let me guess... another Ericsson hater... Both are young guys (27 years old) so they're bound to make mistakes, but they both also have a lot of upside... So if it doesn't work out split them up, there are countless ways to pair the 7 defenseman...

Keep complaining about everything fella's, I'd hate to have your negativity... I feel for you, I really do... actually not all that much.....

Hossa was a premier 2-way forward well before he came here, and I'd wager most people here were pretty big fans. I'd like Zherdev at your price; I think we can afford the gamble, but he doesn't comapre to Hossa at all.

Not a big fan of Connolly. He may be a RH center but he sucks on faceoffs. I'd rather someone more physical for a third line center and I'm not sure how well he fits the roster moving forward. He costs a bit much, but we're in good shape so that's not a huge deal. There are better options. A depth player like Adam Hall would give us a decent RH faceoff guy if we really think we need it.

Wis and Babchuk won't likely come that cheap, but you have room to spare. I'd like both guys.

#652 krsmith17

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 02:17 PM

Okay, first of all I'm not saying that Connolly in particular is the guy we "need" but we do need more right-handed shooters up front mainly a centerman. This has been pointed out many many times and is very evident when it comes to defensive faceoffs. How many times can you remember in the past couple seasons us losing draws in the defensive zone and the puck ending up in the back of the net. No, I'm not saying getting a solid right-handed centerman would eliminate this problem but it would definitely help us out a lot. So yes it is a need for our team.

All I have to say about the Hossa/Zherdev thing is that maybe my opinion on is a little biased because I have never been a fan, even when he did play here for a year I never liked him and was happy to see him go to Chicago. I am not a huge fan of Zherdex either but for you to say that Hossa is far more offensively skilled isn't completely true, I'd definitely give him a bit of an edge but Zherdev is 6 years younger and hasn't had quite the opportunitiy as Hossa to play with a lot elite players. Yes he has put up a lot of solid numbers over the years but there is not all that much difference in the numbers Hossa put up when he first came into the league with Ottawa, who were a great hockey team at the time to the numbers Zherdev put up when he came into the league with Columbus, a terrible hockey team. I'm not trying to argue that Zherdev is or ever will be as good as Hossa but I think Zherdev can put up huge numbers alongside Datsyuk.

Your last two points were pointless seems how I said previously that there is more money in the bank to spend on him and I would spend a little extra on him and as for the pairings like I said previously there are countless combinations but you or no one else can say for sure the combination would not work for certain...

I'm not going to be disappointed if this doesn't happen, probably because I don't expect this team to happen, it's just what I would do if I were Ken Holland, read the title of this topic pal...

#653 krsmith17

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 02:26 PM

Why the hell do people continuously say "unrealistic"... this is a topic, for people to throw ideas out there, to make a few moves to our current roster. It is very unlikely that Holland trades Hudler before July 1, but yet pretty much every single person wants him gone, and have made that move in their roster. Who cares what is and what isn't realistic, have fun with it, stop being so damn negative towards everyone...

#654 Crymson

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 05:55 PM

HAHAHAHAHA F*CKIN HILARIOUS....

God Damn Trolls have nothing good to say about any ideas....


The fact that we disagree with your ideas does not make us trolls. And if we disagree with many ideas, perhaps it's because we feel that they are all bad ideas. Presenting a drove of ideas does not automatically mean that any of them are good ideas.

Excellent start (sarc) to your first day on the boards, by the way. You've been around less than 12 hours, and already you're making utterly false claims and insulting those who disagree with you.

Edited by Crymson, 12 June 2011 - 06:02 PM.


#655 hooon

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 06:53 PM

Why the hell do people continuously say "unrealistic"... this is a topic, for people to throw ideas out there, to make a few moves to our current roster. It is very unlikely that Holland trades Hudler before July 1, but yet pretty much every single person wants him gone, and have made that move in their roster. Who cares what is and what isn't realistic, have fun with it, stop being so damn negative towards everyone...


The only person here that is being negative here is you. Calling people "fuc*ing trolls" and insulting anyone who disagrees with you is far more negative than someone pointing out that your ideas are a tad unrealistic.


Perhaps it would help to actually do some research on the players you are attempting to discuss, instead of presenting completely false information as fact, and insulting those who point out the ridiculousness of some of your ideas.
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#656 krsmith17

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 07:55 PM

The fact that we disagree with your ideas does not make us trolls. And if we disagree with many ideas, perhaps it's because we feel that they are all bad ideas. Presenting a drove of ideas does not automatically mean that any of them are good ideas.

Excellent start (sarc) to your first day on the boards, by the way. You've been around less than 12 hours, and already you're making utterly false claims and insulting those who disagree with you.



No, you're right the fact that you disagree with my ideas does not make you trolls, what makes you trolls is all you do is disagree with what people have to say. It didn't matter what suggestions I had made you were going to find something wrong with every player and that was it, that's what guys like yourself do. Internet tough guys... You seen that it was my first day on the board so you assume I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, news for ya, I have been on these boards for years reading a lot of the same s*** from the same people. I finally write something and all you have to say is how terrible my ideas are... kinda sad that you're so naive to think you know it all. I've been huge into hockey and one of the biggest Wings fans for over 20 years but hey what do I know...

If I had said...... you would have said......
Brad Richards... No way Ken Holland signs him, he's asking for $7-9m...
Ed Jovanovski... Not a chance, he's way overpaid and getting too old...
J.S. Giguere... LMAO. Did you see the season he had in Toronto last year?...
Andrei Markov... No way, way too injury prone...

anyone can come up with all the negatives... doesn't mean they're right though... All these guys can have a huge upside, just like every player I mentioned. But if you don't like them, that's cool....

The only person here that is being negative here is you. Calling people "fuc*ing trolls" and insulting anyone who disagrees with you is far more negative than someone pointing out that your ideas are a tad unrealistic.


Perhaps it would help to actually do some research on the players you are attempting to discuss, instead of presenting completely false information as fact, and insulting those who point out the ridiculousness of some of your ideas.


Do some research? I have all kinds of facts in my posts so don't give me that s***. The only thing that I said that may have been false was what I said about Hossa not being strong defensively before he came to the Wings and the only reason I said that was because as I already pointed out I never liked him as a player. Pretty much the same as people don't like Zherdev so they say he has bad work ethic and is a cancer in the room... I'd love to know what Zherdev has done for people to think this... Oooh rumors... okay that makes sence then... I have heard on several occasions that Dan Cleary has an attitude and thinks he's better than everyone, but I personally know the guy pretty well and he's one of the most down to earth guys you could meet... but yeah, rumors... must be true...

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I like a good debate as much as the next guy, but when people come out just blatantly say no there's no way that can happen and s*** like that it just pisses me off, especially when all people are doing is coming up with their dream scenario for 2011-12 Red Wings roster... Fact is, we can easily get all the players I mentioned, I'm not saying that is what "the real" Ken Holland is going to do because there is less than 1% chance he will get all 5 guys I mentioned but that IS what I would do... I guess you're all lucky I'm not the GM...

*** By the way none of this is directed specifially at either of you just all the board junkies on here that have nothing better to do in life than look at the negative side of everything...

#657 dirtydangles

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 08:14 PM

i mentioned zherdev 2-3 weeks ago and got ripped apart...

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#658 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 09:02 PM

i mentioned zherdev 2-3 weeks ago and got ripped apart...


i didnt rip ya mate, i think getting him and Sergei Kostitsyn from the Preds would be good. Put them on Pavs wings as the second line.
"What are you guys doing?" Reggie Dunlop
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#659 Crymson

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 09:32 PM

No, you're right the fact that you disagree with my ideas does not make you trolls, what makes you trolls is all you do is disagree with what people have to say. It didn't matter what suggestions I had made you were going to find something wrong with every player and that was it, that's what guys like yourself do. Internet tough guys...


I guess you've gotten to know me very well in your 12 hours on the board. Something tells me, though, that if you queried people about my general state of mind, they probably wouldn't describe me as a negative person when it comes to the Wings.

You seen that it was my first day on the board so you assume I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, news for ya, I have been on these boards for years reading a lot of the same s*** from the same people.


Whatever.

I finally write something and all you have to say is how terrible my ideas are... kinda sad that you're so naive to think you know it all. I've been huge into hockey and one of the biggest Wings fans for over 20 years but hey what do I know...


I doubt it, though I'm conflicted as to whether to deem you an alias account or someone who just doesn't watch much hockey.

If I had said...... you would have said......
Brad Richards... No way Ken Holland signs him, he's asking for $7-9m...
Ed Jovanovski... Not a chance, he's way overpaid and getting too old...
J.S. Giguere... LMAO. Did you see the season he had in Toronto last year?...
Andrei Markov... No way, way too injury prone...


You make excellent points about why most of those players would not be good signings. Richards will want a long-term contract at a high price; Markov is too injury-prone and will want too much money; Giguere had a horrible season, and, more importantly, we do not need another starting goalie, let alone one who is expensive and who is willing to bad-mouth his teammates in public. I think Jovanovski could be a decent option if he were willing to take a substantial cut in pay, though he's not my first choice.

That said, I don't see your point.

anyone can come up with all the negatives... doesn't mean they're right though... All these guys can have a huge upside, just like every player I mentioned. But if you don't like them, that's cool....


I think they'd be poor fits for the team.


Do some research? I have all kinds of facts in my posts so don't give me that s***. The only thing that I said that may have been false was what I said about Hossa not being strong defensively before he came to the Wings and the only reason I said that was because as I already pointed out I never liked him as a player. Pretty much the same as people don't like Zherdev so they say he has bad work ethic and is a cancer in the room... I'd love to know what Zherdev has done for people to think this... Oooh rumors... okay that makes sence then... I have heard on several occasions that Dan Cleary has an attitude and thinks he's better than everyone, but I personally know the guy pretty well and he's one of the most down to earth guys you could meet... but yeah, rumors... must be true...


Your "error" on Hossa was more likely due to you being a know-it-all. Zherdev has been named as a locker-room cancer by newspeople on each team he's been on, and his antics in Philadelphia in this last season were well-documented. They are not rumors.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I like a good debate as much as the next guy



No, you don't.

*** By the way none of this is directed specifially at either of you just all the board junkies on here that have nothing better to do in life than look at the negative side of everything...


... such as those who disagree with your ideas?

#660 Never_Retire_Steve

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 09:46 PM

I agree with this. Of course a GM has plans for when certain guys will be replaced and the contract length reflects that. Rafi retiring really put a dent in us. I hate the fact that we have so much wiggle room. Its fun to dream, but its going to end up being disappointing when Holland doesn't make any big splashes. I was happy with the extra cap we had plus the cap going up, i didn't really want 6 mill from rafi. Thats way too much to play with, so too many options. I think Holland wanted to make one or two changes this offseason to make next years easier. Now he has to be careful making rash decisions, decisions which I think would be exciting but kinda stupid in the long run (all the trades i propose are pretty rash). The more changes you make the more unpredictable the result will be. The timelines for guys moving on are kinda screwed by this a bit, Kenny prolly had some sort of plan worked out that now has to be completely rethought. Lids not knowing yet if he is gonna return makes it a little harder too.



Rafalski's decision didn't screw the Wings other than to throw a wrench into their roster for next season, and make the FA season more important. But his retirement means they should have a defenseman of similar skill level signed past next season going INTO next season. Previously, Lidstrom (if retained), Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart would all have turned UFA next summer. That's potential for complete turnover and possibly serious destruction of the defensive unit. Rafalski's retirement plus significant cap space now means the Wings can easily avoid that scenario.


I don't think it would be such a big deal if it wasn't for Lidstroms future being so much in doubt. Having Rafalski and Lidstrom leave within the next two years really hurts us because now we have to replace our top 2 Dmen (this is something that is not easily done). No one will ever replace Lidstrom and it's hard enough to replace your #1 Dman but when you have to replace #1 and #2 things get a lot tougher in the short term.

Those days are gone. Holland was one, if not the first, to use long contracts for a salary cap benefit. Now since New Jersey, Philly and Chicago ruined it by going to extremes, long term contracts are less attractive. I bet we'll see fewer long term contracts this season.


I'm not so sure they are and it's really hard to see the effectiveness of the contracts right now. We will have to wait another 5-10 years to see how they have done. I can already see a couple failures or failures to be in some contracts (DiPietro, maybe Kovalchuk)






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