813 replies to this topic

[13dangledangle]

...."alongside Datsyuk"...

Well according to posts Ive seen, the key in signing players is to play alongside Datsyuk?? No s*** players put up good numbers playing with him, maybe he will center two lines this year.

Edited by 13dangledangle, 12 June 2011 - 11:18 PM.

[eva unit zero]

First, to replace Hudler I signed Nikolai Zherdev to one-year $1.75m, a slight pay-cut due to the fact that he is running out of options in the NHL, but I am willing to take a gamble on him. Also, knowing he would start the season playing alongside Datsyuk helped lure him here. I know a lot of people are sceptical about this signing just because of his lack of defensive ability, but let's be honest, was Hudler that much of a better defensive forward, hell no. And with Zherdev's offensive upside I'd take him in a heart beat, so I did. Put him on a line with Datsyuk and Filppula (two of the three most defensively aware forwards on the team) and not only would it make up for his lack of defense but it would help his defensive game watching these two guys working their asses off at both ends of the ice. Zherdev is more than capable of putting up 50-60 points on the top line with Pav and Fil.

You won't be getting Zherdev for less than $3m. As for the comparison to Hudler, the only thing Zherdev has on Jiri is speed. Put Hudler with Datsyuk and Filppula and you'll get 80+ points. And Hudler is a much harder worker and better backchecker WITHOUT needing to be "motivated" by playing with Datsyuk.

Then I went out and signed Tim Connolly to a three-year $4.5m per, to fill the void of a right-handed centerman we desperately need. I don't think it would be too much to think Connolly could put up 40-50 points in a third line role with Bert and Cleary.

Connolly hasn't matched his pre-contract production during his two-year contract. However, due to contract inflation and the fact that his salary from this past season is $4.5, much higher than it was in 2008-09 when he signed his 2-year, $9m deal, he will likely get closer to $5m.

Here are your forward lines, updated with Zherdev replaced and prices changed.

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m)
Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Tim Connolly ($5.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.850m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

I have always liked Connolly, and would love to see him on the Wings, but realistically - especially looking at that lineup - I don't see it happening. That would give the Wings seven forwards priced at $2.8m or higher.

Then I went out looking for two solid right-handed shots, one that could chip in offensively and help out on the power-play (replacement for Rafalski), and the other to give us a little more depth and help out on the penalty kill (replacement for Salei). So I signed James Wisniewski to a four-year $3.75m contract and Anton Babchuk to a one-year $1.8m contract, two perfect replacements to help out our team and give us a little more balance and depth on the back end. No, I don't think Wisniewski is going to completely fill the loss of Rafalski, but he can definitely help us out. He's not going to make that first breakout pass like Rafi could and there's not too many in the league that can but he brings just as much to the table in my opinion. He's a slight upgrade in size but much harder on the puck and can clear the front of the net as good as anyone and is not afraid to drop the gloves. Not to mention he can put up pretty reasonable numbers, he's not a quarterback on the power-play but can defintely help out if paired with Lidstrom which I would do for the first PP unit. As for Babchuk, I think he is an upgrade to Salei and would pair great with Ericsson. Babchuk is not quite the same stay at home style defenseman as Salei, he is a little more mobile and has a decent shot from the point.

Wisniewski won't be that cheap. He made $3.25m last year. Babchuk won't be that cheap. He made $1.4m last season. We're probably looking at $4.5m and $2.5m for those guys, respectively. So we'll figure that part in. As for the one-year deal for Babchuk, I don't think I see Holland doing that; if he signs a guy like Babchuk he'll go for at least two or three years. As for Ericsson, Babchuk would be coming in to replace him if he comes to town at all. So let's cut him out, and put in Doug Janik as the 7th, with Kindl taking Ericsson's 3rd pairing spot.

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Anton Babchuk ($2.500m)
Doug Janik ($0.513m)

So we've got a solid unit of defensemen, but again more expensive than you were expecting. Wiz won't replace Raffi, but he'll provide some solid offense and good physical play.

When looking at the goalie situation, first Ozzie retires and I let Joey MacDonald walk. Now I'm looking for a decent goaltender for a reasonable price that can play 25 - 35 games when called upon. So I signed Brian Boucher to one-year $850k. Boucher is a decent back-up goaltender that can play well behind another solid goalie, he had a decent season last year but struggled in the playoffs when he was the number one guy. I think the pressure got to him a little but as long as Jimmy can stay healthy and on top of his game I think Boucher is very competent to play a solid 25+ games for us.

Osgood will likely return as the backup, but for minimal cap hit. As for Boucher, he put up a comparable performance to Pekka Rinne, and significantly outplayed both Marc-Andre Fleury and Antti Niemi. He faced 30 shots per game behind a weak and ineffective defense, yet managed to lead the team to the second round despite his coach's refusal to commit to his top goaltender, and the other two goalies on the team playing terrible hockey. Boucher would definitely be my choice for a backup if Osgood were to retire, but Osgood has already made clear his desire to return.

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.550m)

Well, there's your goaltending tandem. Howard should have a better year after the sophomore slump, and Osgood hopefully won't have a season-ending injury. Holland, of course, will sign a solid veteran like Joey Mac who is good enough to fill the backup role but will clear waivers, just in case. Unless McCollum, Pearce, or Larsson show that they are ready for the job.

So what does this do to the final cap hit?

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,492,044; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $7,956

Well, it cuts pretty close, but still fits. So it's possible to produce your roster at the likely cap hits for these guys, but I don't see it happening. Unless someone goes nuts on Big Rig, that would be the first place I would expect a cap-saving move made. He'd get $500k or so less, if not more, so Holland would have a bit of flexibility he wouldn't otherwise have with only a minor downgrade. It's also more likely Ericsson is re-signed than Babchuk is brought in.

[krsmith17]

You won't be getting Zherdev for less than $3m. As for the comparison to Hudler, the only thing Zherdev has on Jiri is speed. Put Hudler with Datsyuk and Filppula and you'll get 80+ points. And Hudler is a much harder worker and better backchecker WITHOUT needing to be "motivated" by playing with Datsyuk.

Well, I completely disagree with this, I know you're a Hudler fan, but come on now... Hudler is a much harder worker? I don't know if I'd go that far, Hudler has no heart what so ever... How many times do you see him back off from the puck in the corners or completely miss a pass because he is frightened to death to get hit... I would take anyone over Hudler but that's just me... I think he is garbage and hurts the team so much... As for getting Zherdev for no less than $3m... I know we'd be able to get him here for much less. His options are limited in the NHL, and I completely understand why people wouldn't want to take a chance on him but I would, I think he has unbelievable talent and in the right system with a great coach he become elite in this league... No one has to agree, just don't try to tell me I'm wrong, because no one knows for sure, he could come here and play 70 games with the Griffins or he can come here and play 82 with the Wings and put up huge numbers...

Well, it cuts pretty close, but still fits. So it's possible to produce YOUR roster at the likely cap hits for these guys, but I don't see it happening. Unless someone goes nuts on Big Rig, that would be the first place I would expect a cap-saving move made. He'd get $500k or so less, if not more, so Holland would have a bit of flexibility he wouldn't otherwise have with only a minor downgrade. It's also more likely Ericsson is re-signed than Babchuk is brought in.

Hahah my roster?? you just changed everything.... pretty sure that is your roster....

Edited by krsmith17, 13 June 2011 - 07:09 AM.

[kipwinger]

Well according to posts Ive seen, the key in signing players is to play alongside Datsyuk?? No s*** players put up good numbers playing with him, maybe he will center two lines this year.

I agree, apparently every underachiever on the team should be promoted to the first line. Giving a third or fourth liner more ice time and a chance to play with the best forward in hockey will CERTAINLY improve their offensive numbers, but at the end of the day you've still only got a third or fourth liner on your top line. Apparently everyone is forgetting about the fact that you've got to match up and play defense, as well as be able to contribute in critical situations (offensively and defensively) as well. Bad idea, and bad logic for anyone advancing it.

[SwedeLundin77]

Is it just me, or does EVERYTHING eva says get inflated and overblown?

Hulder 80+ points?!?!

Zherdev to command over 3 million?!?!

Connolly to command around 5 million?!?!


You, my friend, are off your rocker if you think any of the above three are possible.

[krsmith17]

Is it just me, or does EVERYTHING eva says get inflated and overblown?

Hulder 80+ points?!?!

Zherdev to command over 3 million?!?!

Connolly to command around 5 million?!?!


You, my friend, are off your rocker if you think any of the above three are possible.

Lol couldn't agree more...

Hudler - 40-50 points would be GREAT for HIM this season in my opinion...

Zherdev - can easily be signed for around the $2m range... completely understand some people not wanting him but I still think he could be a great addition...

Connolly - I think $4.5m is pretty generous, wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo resign him for $4m....

[Majsheppard]

I actually think hiring the right coaches is far more important than signing players as of right now... and it just got harder losing MacLean. The last thing I want is Babcock-esk coaches coming in, we need coaches that can coach the players how to play Red Wings hockey so Babs can continue doing his thing well.

[dirtydangles]

I actually think hiring the right coaches is far more important than signing players as of right now... and it just got harder losing MacLean. The last thing I want is Babcock-esk coaches coming in, we need coaches that can coach the players how to play Red Wings hockey so Babs can continue doing his thing well.

THIS. I agree sooooo much with this. I'm so nervous to see who we get. Ideally we'd keep MacLean and pick up Hitch (not likely) but I'd love to see Jiri Fischer or Cheli get a shot because as you said, they would know "Red Wings hockey" and the organization. I want somebody with either extensive experience like Hitch or extensive experience within the Red Wings organization.

As for the players, I think that there is a big step to take this offseason. Wiz could be perfect. I like the spark he would provide on the back end, which has been pretty quite of recent years. He, Kronwall, Abby, Helm would keep other teams in check with their physical play for the most part. I want Burns so bad, as i have stated many times, but I know its a stretch. Other than that, I thought Zherdev could be a real steal for this team. He has the tools required to put big points up, just needs the motivation to be there, which I think guys do get from coming to Detroit.

[Crymson]

Neither Chris Chelios nor Jiri Fischer will be vaulting immediately into an NHL assistant coaching job. It would likely be a disaster if they did. One does not put people at that level to learn coaching, as the a tends to suffer when its coaches must learn on the fly.

Well, I completely disagree with this, I know you're a Hudler fan, but come on now... Hudler is a much harder worker? I don't know if I'd go that far, Hudler has no heart what so ever...

Hudler is a harder worker than Zherdev, yes, and he doesn't have Zherdev's terrible attitude. And if you've been around for oh so long, as you claim, you'll know what I generally think about Hudler.

Edited by Crymson, 13 June 2011 - 12:27 PM.

[Majsheppard]

THIS. I agree sooooo much with this. I'm so nervous to see who we get. Ideally we'd keep MacLean and pick up Hitch (not likely) but I'd love to see Jiri Fischer or Cheli get a shot because as you said, they would know "Red Wings hockey" and the organization.

I don't like the idea of Fischer. He really wasn't great at "Red Wings Hockey" when he was here. That is to say he wasn't a hockey genius. He was a hard worker and a great guy, but I like our coaches to be encyclopedias of hockey knowledge and success. I would like them to only pick former players when they have already proven themselves with significant coaching experience. Remember, even Gretzky sucked as a coach.

Gallant and Boughner would be my first choice, but then again I don't know what they really are looking for...

[eva unit zero]

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Well, I completely disagree with this, I know you're a Hudler fan, but come on now... Hudler is a much harder worker? I don't know if I'd go that far, Hudler has no heart what so ever... How many times do you see him back off from the puck in the corners or completely miss a pass because he is frightened to death to get hit... I would take anyone over Hudler but that's just me... I think he is garbage and hurts the team so much... As for getting Zherdev for no less than $3m... I know we'd be able to get him here for much less. His options are limited in the NHL, and I completely understand why people wouldn't want to take a chance on him but I would, I think he has unbelievable talent and in the right system with a great coach he become elite in this league... No one has to agree, just don't try to tell me I'm wrong, because no one knows for sure, he could come here and play 70 games with the Griffins or he can come here and play 82 with the Wings and put up huge numbers...

Hahah my roster?? you just changed everything.... pretty sure that is your roster....

Ok, I did make two changes in swapping out Zherdev for Hudler, removing Ericsson for Janik, and swapping Ozzie for Boucher (Ozzie will probably be back, and Boucher is a downgrade with a higher salary anyway). But you can put Zherdev back if you think he'll get Hudler's hit or lower. Which means the only difference is Janik for Ericsson, and Kindl is not unlikely to vault past Ericsson on the depth chart this season if E returns. So that roster is, in effect, your roster. MY roster? That would look significantly different if I could pick any UFAs to add on at likely prices, and players to dump.

I don't like the idea of Fischer. He really wasn't great at "Red Wings Hockey" when he was here. That is to say he wasn't a hockey genius. He was a hard worker and a great guy, but I like our coaches to be encyclopedias of hockey knowledge and success. I would like them to only pick former players when they have already proven themselves with significant coaching experience. Remember, even Gretzky sucked as a coach.

Gallant and Boughner would be my first choice, but then again I don't know what they really are looking for...

Fischer has been managing the team's prospects for years in what is effectively a coaching role. Some of the players he has been involved with? Jan Mursak and Cory Emmerton.

He's been in this position for three years now. I would argue that he is more than ready for an assistant coaching job.

As for the argument that he wasn't great at "Red Wings Hockey", Jiri was a skilled puck mover and one of the best skaters in the league. Combining that with a guy who had his size and strength is a scary proposition. The only problem is that he joined the team right out of juniors at age 19. He was dominant in juniors simply from his size and speed, so his game wasn't as developed as it could have been - or he would have been the top pick. It took him a few years before he really started putting those tools together into a solid, cohesive game. And that was when the heart failure happened. He was on pace to clear 30 points that season despite limited PP time. Fischer had developed into a solid shut-down defenseman and his offense was coming out; he was a physical force and he was faster than 98% of the league's forwards. Fischer would probably be a Norris candidate right now, possibly even a winner.

[Rice]

How can anyone believe Hudler is an 80-point player?

Do you know how many players in the entire NHL had 80 points or more last year? Nine. Both Sedins, St. Louis, Perry, Stamkos, Iginla, Ovechkin, Zetterberg, and Selanne.

Yep, Hudler stacks right up with those guys!

[dirtydangles]

id go bats*** if somehow holland managed to bring Wiz and Burns here next year. We already had a discussion about Burns and the issues associated with a trade for him, so no need for that again. But I just read an article posted at the top of the site saying that Wiz is the best option for the Wings as long as we can get him at a reasonable price. I like that he has a mean streak, brings character to our team in that sense. I'd be down with Kindl staying up next year as the 6th dman if ericsson is lost-I think Kindl has a lot of potential and was just trying to stay out of everyone's way last season.

Coaching:
Babs
Gallant (O)
Hitch (D)

[Hatethedrake!]

How can anyone believe Hudler is an 80-point player?

Do you know how many players in the entire NHL had 80 points or more last year? Nine. Both Sedins, St. Louis, Perry, Stamkos, Iginla, Ovechkin, Zetterberg, and Selanne.

Yep, Hudler stacks right up with those guys!

I don't even think Hudler himself believes he is an 80 point player.

[Crymson]

id go bats*** if somehow holland managed to bring Wiz and Burns here next year. We already had a discussion about Burns and the issues associated with a trade for him, so no need for that again. But I just read an article posted at the top of the site saying that Wiz is the best option for the Wings as long as we can get him at a reasonable price. I like that he has a mean streak, brings character to our team in that sense. I'd be down with Kindl staying up next year as the 6th dman if ericsson is lost-I think Kindl has a lot of potential and was just trying to stay out of everyone's way last season.

Coaching:
Babs
Gallant (O)
Hitch (D)

I agree that Kindl has a lot of potential. I think that people need to be a bit more patient with his development. He's still transitioning to the NHL.

He's got good speed, he's smart, and he makes good passes. I think that once he adds some bulk and learns to shoot at the NHL level, he'll be a solid second-pairing defenseman. Maybe he'll surprise us all and be even better than that.

[Konnan511]

I agree that Kindl has a lot of potential. I think that people need to be a bit more patient with his development. He's still transitioning to the NHL.

He's got good speed, he's smart, and he makes good passes. I think that once he adds some bulk and learns to shoot at the NHL level, he'll be a solid second-pairing defenseman. Maybe he'll surprise us all and be even better than that.

Kindl was -8 in his first 8 NHL games. In his next 40 he was +2. I'm confident Kindl is ready for the NHL.

[eva unit zero]

Lol couldn't agree more...

Hudler - 40-50 points would be GREAT for HIM this season in my opinion...

Hudler scored 37 points this past season and people considered it a terrible season for him. Three points would have made the difference?

Zherdev - can easily be signed for around the $2m range... completely understand some people not wanting him but I still think he could be a great addition...

Of all of the players in the league, Zherdev is one of the most widely known for having attitude problems stemming from an over-inflated sense of self worth. He's also perfectly willing to sign in the KHL, and hasn't shown too much interest in winning a Cup ahead of getting paid.

Connolly - I think $4.5m is pretty generous, wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo resign him for $4m....

Connolly has been scoring at just shy of a point per game for years, and made $4.5m the past two seasons. Hard argument for a pay cut on a guy his age, unless you think his injury history should mean pay cut at age 30 when he's still a top line center.

How can anyone believe Hudler is an 80-point player?

Do you know how many players in the entire NHL had 80 points or more last year? Nine. Both Sedins, St. Louis, Perry, Stamkos, Iginla, Ovechkin, Zetterberg, and Selanne.

Yep, Hudler stacks right up with those guys!

I said if you assume Zherdev would score 50-60 points with Flip and Dats, then Hudler could potentially score 80 with a full season alongside Datsyuk. Given Hudler's proven chemistry and history with Dats, I don't think that's as far fetched as you think it might be. I didn't say it made him an elite player. I said he would be significantly more productive than Zherdev in the same situation. That's pretty much common sense, isn't it?

Edited by eva unit zero, 14 June 2011 - 02:17 PM.

[Kerjuxaxaxa]

I don't think Connolly is a good option. As Buffalo experts said, he's good at PK only.

[Konnan511]

Hudler scored 37 points this past season and people considered it a terrible season for him. Three points would have made the difference?



Of all of the players in the league, Zherdev is one of the most widely known for having attitude problems stemming from an over-inflated sense of self worth. He's also perfectly willing to sign in the KHL, and hasn't shown too much interest in winning a Cup ahead of getting paid.



Connolly has been scoring at just shy of a point per game for years, and made $4.5m the past two seasons. Hard argument for a pay cut on a guy his age, unless you think his injury history should mean pay cut at age 30 when he's still a top line center.




I said if you assume Zherdev would score 50-60 points with Flip and Dats, then Hudler could potentially score 80 with a full season alongside Datsyuk. Given Hudler's proven chemistry and history with Dats, I don't think that's as far fetched as you think it might be. I didn't say it made him an elite player. I said he would be significantly more productive than Zherdev in the same situation. That's pretty much common sense, isn't it?

Obviously not. Zherdev would out produce Hudler in that situation.

[kipwinger]

Tim Connolly? Hudler vs. Zherdev? At some point are we going to talk about anybody who A) Actually meets the "top six" qualification that Babcock mentioned. B) Doesn't require that we speculate for days on end whether their extremely marginal professional success is worth the peanuts you apparently want to pay for a free agent.