Hudler's Future

[eva unit zero 271]

Datsyuk was out several games at the end of March, and Franzen missed a few as well. In that time, Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank.

You may not come out and say he's a victim, but your constant whining about his lack of ice time and the poor quality of his linemates says it for you. Even in this post you're whining about LGW not hating Franzen as much as Hudler.

Here's a fact for you. Franzen had a pretty crappy year, hardly any goals the last two months of the season. And he still outscored Hudler by 18 goals. He scored just as many points as Hudler from February on. And he's better in other areas. Add that to his previous playoff performances and you're damn right it justifies his negatives. He's a far better player than Hudler and far more deserving of premium ice time and linemates.

You blamed Hudler's first half on Modano. Now you're blaming Franzen for kicking Hudler out of the top 6. Every single thing you sayabout him is about some great disservice being done to him either in how he's treated on the ice or how he's perceived by fans. The funny thing is you actually believe that Hudler was 'amazing' the second half of the season and Franzen was 'terrible', when Hudler scored 2 more points.

Like I said previously, it's not about Hudler. Not everyone can play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The guys that played with them more than Hudler, deserved it more than Hudler.

Well, if we divide it exactly in half it divides between January 7th and 8th. This places Hudler and Franzen with the following second-half stats:

Franzen 36 gp, 11g-12a-23pt

Hudler 37 gp, 7g-19a-26pt

So offensively, Hudler's second half was better. As for my comments about Franzen? In the last 32 games of the season, Franzen scored 2 goals. Hudler scored six in that time frame.

If I had the time to waste (maybe someone here does) we could go through and pick apart box scores to figure out which of Franzen's 55 points and Hudler's 37 were influenced by Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

[Buppy 1,720]

Well, if we divide it exactly in half it divides between January 7th and 8th. This places Hudler and Franzen with the following second-half stats:

Franzen 36 gp, 11g-12a-23pt

Hudler 37 gp, 7g-19a-26pt

So offensively, Hudler's second half was better. As for my comments about Franzen? In the last 32 games of the season, Franzen scored 2 goals. Hudler scored six in that time frame.

If I had the time to waste (maybe someone here does) we could go through and pick apart box scores to figure out which of Franzen's 55 points and Hudler's 37 were influenced by Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

So... the difference between amazing and terrible is 3 points. Yeah. I guess I shouldn't have estimated the 2nd half as 'from January on'; cheated poor, poor, abused little Hudler out of one entire point to his advantage. That makes all the difference in the world. Completely invalidates my point that you're judging the two players by different standards. Clearly, a two point difference isn't enough to say one player was amazing and one player terrible. But three points. My God, such a monumental disparity. 6 goals to 2 in the last 32 games. Well, obviously Franzen should be shot and Hudler elevated to sainthood. I mean, come on. Hudler scoring at nearly a 16 goal pace. Such scorching numbers are a great reason to displace a better all-around player with a career goals/game nearly twice as high.

Oh, and in the last 33 games of the season, Franzen scored 7 goals to Hudler's 6. And in the first 49: 21-4

It's not a secret that Franzen gets more ice time, and more time with better linemates. What you don't seem to grasp is that Franzen deserves it more. So do Filppula, Cleary, Bert, and Homer. They are all either better players or at least better suited to the role needed, which isn't always just offense.

So what if poor little Hudler's stats suffer. The team is better for it.

[Mitchmac33 103]

So... the difference between amazing and terrible is 3 points. Yeah. I guess I shouldn't have estimated the 2nd half as 'from January on'; cheated poor, poor, abused little Hudler out of one entire point to his advantage. That makes all the difference in the world. Completely invalidates my point that you're judging the two players by different standards. Clearly, a two point difference isn't enough to say one player was amazing and one player terrible. But three points. My God, such a monumental disparity. 6 goals to 2 in the last 32 games. Well, obviously Franzen should be shot and Hudler elevated to sainthood. I mean, come on. Hudler scoring at nearly a 16 goal pace. Such scorching numbers are a great reason to displace a better all-around player with a career goals/game nearly twice as high.

Oh, and in the last 33 games of the season, Franzen scored 7 goals to Hudler's 6. And in the first 49: 21-4

It's not a secret that Franzen gets more ice time, and more time with better linemates. What you don't seem to grasp is that Franzen deserves it more. So do Filppula, Cleary, Bert, and Homer. They are all either better players or at least better suited to the role needed, which isn't always just offense.

So what if poor little Hudler's stats suffer. The team is better for it.

It's funny that when someone presents something that has no way to dispute Eva just disappears.

[eva unit zero 271]

It's funny that when someone presents something that has no way to dispute Eva just disappears.

I disappeared? Over a response that only highlights my point? Franzen scored 11 goals in the second half. Five of them came in one game.

What does Johan Franzen do if he doesn't have an all-world center? Realistically? Franzen without a Datsyuk or Zetterberg scores what, about 20 goals on a full season? He certainly wouldn't get the "just being there" assists he got this season. You can forget 55 points. Do you really think Franzen would break 40 points playing third and fourth line all season? I don't think so.

[Buppy 1,720]

I disappeared? Over a response that only highlights my point? Franzen scored 11 goals in the second half. Five of them came in one game.

What does Johan Franzen do if he doesn't have an all-world center? Realistically? Franzen without a Datsyuk or Zetterberg scores what, about 20 goals on a full season? He certainly wouldn't get the "just being there" assists he got this season. You can forget 55 points. Do you really think Franzen would break 40 points playing third and fourth line all season? I don't think so.

And Hudler scored 10 goals in the whole season, and never dominated any game.

What is your point? That Franzen is better? I can agree with that.

[Lonewuhf 47]

I disappeared? Over a response that only highlights my point? Franzen scored 11 goals in the second half. Five of them came in one game.

What does Johan Franzen do if he doesn't have an all-world center? Realistically? Franzen without a Datsyuk or Zetterberg scores what, about 20 goals on a full season? He certainly wouldn't get the "just being there" assists he got this season. You can forget 55 points. Do you really think Franzen would break 40 points playing third and fourth line all season? I don't think so.

Just because Franzen was terrible for the majority of the season doesn't mean that Hudler wasn't terrible. They were both bad throughout most of the season/post-season.

What about Hudler this season? He put up a season that was, on the whole, second-line worthy. He did it by pulling out an amazing second half that LGW simply refuses to acknowledge.

Overall second-line worthy? You can't honestly believe this right?

Edited June 7, 2011 by Lonewuhf

[Datsyerberger 279]

Overall second-line worthy? You can't honestly believe this right?

Well, technically speaking that's probably true, though not really to the unrealistic expectations of this forum.

Hudler was around rank 150 at .51 PPG. This is definitely 2nd line territory in the NHL, though the lower chunk of 2nd liners that consists at least partly of 2nd/3rd tweeners.

While Hudler doesn't put on a defensive clinic by any stretch of the imagination, he probably (sadly) has more defensive commitment/skill than a fair number of people in that scoring range.

So yes, he was probably in 2nd line territory. That doesn't mean he's an ideal 2nd liner on a contender... just means that he meets the criteria. Wings fans should be looking for more depth in the top 9 so Hudler can operate on a 3rd scoring line sort of role, or for Hudler's play to improve significantly next year so he can fully hold down a 2nd line spot... he's not suited to a 3rd line checking role at all. Ideally, both happen.

[Mitchmac33 103]

I disappeared? Over a response that only highlights my point? Franzen scored 11 goals in the second half. Five of them came in one game.

What does Johan Franzen do if he doesn't have an all-world center? Realistically? Franzen without a Datsyuk or Zetterberg scores what, about 20 goals on a full season? He certainly wouldn't get the "just being there" assists he got this season. You can forget 55 points. Do you really think Franzen would break 40 points playing third and fourth line all season? I don't think so.

11>10

20>10

40>37

I take Franzen.

And if a guy like Eaves can score 13 goals (btw 13>10) than yes I think Franzen could score more than 20 goals playing 3rd/4th line minutes

Oh, and if Franzen doesn't score those five goals, detroit loses that game.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Mitchmac33

[kipwinger 8,522]

Well, technically speaking that's probably true, though not really to the unrealistic expectations of this forum.

Hudler was around rank 150 at .51 PPG. This is definitely 2nd line territory in the NHL, though the lower chunk of 2nd liners that consists at least partly of 2nd/3rd tweeners.

While Hudler doesn't put on a defensive clinic by any stretch of the imagination, he probably (sadly) has more defensive commitment/skill than a fair number of people in that scoring range.

So yes, he was probably in 2nd line territory. That doesn't mean he's an ideal 2nd liner on a contender... just means that he meets the criteria. Wings fans should be looking for more depth in the top 9 so Hudler can operate on a 3rd scoring line sort of role, or for Hudler's play to improve significantly next year so he can fully hold down a 2nd line spot... he's not suited to a 3rd line checking role at all. Ideally, both happen.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, second line worthy? He's a WINGER with ten goals, -7 defensively (against third liners), and about 13 min. TOI. Boy what a clinic he put on. He's not even close to as good as our own second line wingers who weren't even as close to as good, as every other quality second line (on competitive teams. What good does is it to compare them to terrible teams). The worst of our top line wingers is probably Holmstrom with 18 goals, 19 assists, -6 (largely against first and second liners) and 14 min. TOI. Tomas Holmstrom is also 11 years older than Jiri Hudler. As a matter of fact Hudler hardly as better offensive numbers than Eaves or Miller, and Hudler plays on the Power Play and had more games played. But let's keep telling ourselves he's quality because he's got better offensive numbers than whoever plays on Edmonton, or Florida, or the Islanders' third lines.

I honestly cannot figure this forum out. It baffles me. You take a guy, who had a not very impressive year, against not very impressive players (relative to first and second line players), and with essentially no responsibilities, and he turns in a pretty mediocre year. Which is fine, Jiri Hudler is a mediocre player, so I'm ok with it up to this point. Here comes the part that gets me. You people want to give him MORE ice time, MORE responsibilities defensively, and a LARGER portion of the ice time in critical situations (something skewed in favor of top six forwards and top four defensemen). And why, I might ask? Because two years ago he scored 20 more points. HAHAHAHA. Apparently, I've lost my mind for thinking this is a terrible idea.

[Datsyerberger 279]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, second line worthy? He's a WINGER with ten goals, -7 defensively (against third liners), and about 13 min. TOI. Boy what a clinic he put on. He's not even close to as good as our own second line wingers who weren't even as close to as good, as every other quality second line (on competitive teams. What good does is it to compare them to terrible teams). The worst of our top line wingers is probably Holmstrom with 18 goals, 19 assists, -6 (largely against first and second liners) and 14 min. TOI. Tomas Holmstrom is also 11 years older than Jiri Hudler. As a matter of fact Hudler hardly as better offensive numbers than Eaves or Miller, and Hudler plays on the Power Play and had more games played. But let's keep telling ourselves he's quality because he's got better offensive numbers than whoever plays on Edmonton, or Florida, or the Islanders' third lines.

I honestly cannot figure this forum out. It baffles me. You take a guy, who had a not very impressive year, against not very impressive players (relative to first and second line players), and with essentially no responsibilities, and he turns in a pretty mediocre year. Which is fine, Jiri Hudler is a mediocre player, so I'm ok with it up to this point. Here comes the part that gets me. You people want to give him MORE ice time, MORE responsibilities defensively, and a LARGER portion of the ice time in critical situations (something skewed in favor of top six forwards and top four defensemen). And why, I might ask? Because two years ago he scored 20 more points. HAHAHAHA. Apparently, I've lost my mind for thinking this is a terrible idea.

Like I said, statistically, he's among the bottom half of 2nd liners in the NHL, and level of play wise, some of those players with similar scoring to him are as hot and cold and defensively crappy as he was last year.

As I pointed out, I wouldn't want him on my second line with his level of play last year (but I'm also a spoiled Wings fan). He just meets criteria. I also don't want to give him more anything unless he earns it, so don't put words in my.. uh.. text box.. thing.

[kipwinger 8,522]

Haha, fair enough man. Like I said, he's a mediocre player with a mediocre season. He hasn't earned, nor does he deserve more of anything, FOR THOSE WHO KEEP SAYING HE SHOULD BE ON ONE OF OUR TOP TWO LINES. Also, I saw that "eva unit zero" (if that is your real name) commented on Hudler's "amazing" second half performance which "was, on the whole, second-line worthy" but which "LGW simply refuses to acknowledge". Below is a link to Hudler's season splits, a statistical analysis which is easy to find for anyone who wants to know what they are talking about.

http://espn.go.com/n...120/jiri-hudler

Before the All-Star break: 4 goals, 14 assists, -5.

After the All-Star break: 6 goals, 13 assists, -2

Playoffs: 1 goal, 2 assists, -1.

Simply AMAZING second half. He totally caught fire.

NOTE to Eva: Acknowledged. Jiri was by the slimmest margin better in the second half than he was in the first. Also, his first half performance was one of the worst one the team. P.P.S. You can learn to verify the accuracy of your claims by using the internet, a thing which provides you with all sorts of proof that your wild conjectures are true, and sometimes helps to prove that other people's wild conjectures are false.

Edited June 7, 2011 by kipwinger

[hockey23 79]

Haha, fair enough man. Like I said, he's a mediocre player with a mediocre season. He hasn't earned, nor does he deserve more of anything, FOR THOSE WHO KEEP SAYING HE SHOULD BE ON ONE OF OUR TOP TWO LINES. Also, I saw that "eva unit zero" (if that is your real name) commented on Hudler's "amazing" second half performance which "was, on the whole, second-line worthy". Below is a link to Hudler's season splits, a statistical analysis which is easy to find for anyone who wants to know what they are talking about.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/splits/_/id/2120/jiri-hudler

Before the All-Star break: 4 goals, 14 assists, -5.

After the All-Star break: 6 goals, 13 assists, -2

Playoffs: 1 goal, 2 assists, -1.

Simply AMAZING second half. He totally caught fire.

There were 49 games before all star break and 33 afterwards. Clearly the all star break is not the half way point. Huds put up 31 pts in his last 43 regular season games, which is only 2 games off of the actual 41 game half way point. He had a nice second half, even if his numbers were inflated by playing with Datsyuk, so at least give him some credit for a good stretch where he was earning his $2.9 mil.

[kipwinger 8,522]

There were 49 games before all star break and 33 afterwards. Clearly the all star break is not the half way point. Huds put up 31 pts in his last 43 regular season games, which is only 2 games off of the actual 41 game half way point. He had a nice second half, even if his numbers were inflated by playing with Datsyuk, so at least give him some credit for a good stretch where he was earning his $2.9 mil.

Which is why I showed you his playoff totals, which were over the coarse of the ten games he played in the post season. I figure that once you combine the pre All-Star totals with the second half, and include the playoffs, you'll notice he still only had 4 more pts. in roughly the same amount of games, give or a take a couple. It's still a long way off from being an "AMAZING" second half that us peons at LGW "refuse to acknowledge".

[hockey23 79]

Which is why I showed you his playoff totals, which were over the coarse of the ten games he played in the post season. I figure that once you combine the pre All-Star totals with the second half, and include the playoffs, you'll notice he still only had 4 more pts. in roughly the same amount of games, give or a take a couple. It's still a long way off from being an "AMAZING" second half that us peons at LGW "refuse to acknowledge".

It seems like you're arguing more about the definition of the second half of the season than the fact that Hudler put up 31 pts in 43 games. Call it whatever you want, but this is clearly what eva was referring to.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Here's hoping he's working on his game of hockey this off-season.

[Datsyerberger 279]

It seems like you're arguing more about the definition of the second half of the season than the fact that Hudler put up 31 pts in 43 games. Call it whatever you want, but this is clearly what eva was referring to.

Yep, there's no denying that Hudler had a very good half without doing a lot of twisting to support such a negative argument. There's also no denying he blew goats the first half. Good with the bad, and all that.

[blgillett 48]

i think Huds will be gone before the start of the season for a late round pick that will help us sign a forward

[LeftWinger 4,953]

i think Huds will be gone before the start of the season for a late round pick that will help us sign a forward

This is my wish, I hope to maybe see Holland trade Hudler and our first to maybe scoot up a few spots in the draft, but you are probably right, he will get us a 4th or 5th rounder, which is fine, so long as the Hudler experiment is OVER!!!

[Datsyerberger 279]

This is my wish, I hope to maybe see Holland trade Hudler and our first to maybe scoot up a few spots in the draft, but you are probably right, he will get us a 4th or 5th rounder, which is fine, so long as the Hudler experiment is OVER!!!

Wouldn't trade Hudler for that low of value unless we have deals lined up that require clearing his cap space. If we don't, better to keep him than to send him out for that low an asset.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Wouldn't trade Hudler for that low of value unless we have deals lined up that require clearing his cap space. If we don't, better to keep him than to send him out for that low an asset.

Well ya, as much as I dislike him, I wouldn't think Holland would trade him just because, only if he had to clear more cap or roster space. You did notice that I first said I would like to see him trade Hudler and our first to move up a smidgen in the draft...is he worth that? Not sure, but ya, if there are no UFA forwards in the mix, I can see him hanging around and playing out his contract OR being dealt at the deadline for someone...

[Konnan511 1,736]

Hudler has the potential to be a 60+ point guy. I'd rather use his money and a couple mil to find a consistent winger who you know will put up 20-25+ goals a season without worry.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Overall second-line worthy? You can't honestly believe this right?

It depends on which Hudler you're talking about. If we're talking about the guy from December-February or about the guy who posted 57pts in 08/09 then yes he's worthy of being on the top six. Obviously this season was terrible for him but he's still young and still very talented. The hope is that conditioning this summer will get him back to where he was before he left for Russia. Right now his trade value is too low to make it worth trading him. He still has the tools to get back to where he was two years ago.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

This is my wish, I hope to maybe see Holland trade Hudler and our first to maybe scoot up a few spots in the draft, but you are probably right, he will get us a 4th or 5th rounder, which is fine, so long as the Hudler experiment is OVER!!!

Hudler's cap hit is 2.85 mil this coming season and he'll be a UFA next summer... Trading a guy with Hudler's contract, talent and past NHL point totals for a 4th or 5th rounder would be legally retarded.

Hudler's value as a hockey asset is worth more than a 4th round pick to the Wings. If he plays as poorly next season as he did this season then his value is probably even less than a 4th rounder. But many players in his situation recover from an off year like this. The upside is still to big to jettison him as an asset unless the offer's better than a crappy pick.

[legaleaglewingsfan 75]

DISCLAIMER

I have not read through the entire thread.

I have been reading all about how its going to be hard to move Hudler, and he is a waste of a spot, etc. Can we not just assign him to AHL and if someone grabs him don't they owe us picks? Even if they dont isnt that a way to rid ourselves of his salary and open a spot to be used in a more productive way? Just a question, please dont jump me if its a stupid one, I was just curious.

[e_prime 1,936]

DISCLAIMER

I have not read through the entire thread.

I have been reading all about how its going to be hard to move Hudler, and he is a waste of a spot, etc. Can we not just assign him to AHL and if someone grabs him don't they owe us picks? Even if they dont isnt that a way to rid ourselves of his salary and open a spot to be used in a more productive way? Just a question, please dont jump me if its a stupid one, I was just curious.

If we waive him and he is claimed we do not receive any compensation.

If the Wings are really that desperate to get rid of Hudler, he would be traded for some sort of pick and not just given away.