Hudler's Future

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler is too small, doesn't skate hard enough at times, and this past year has looked out of place. Often times he would have an open shot and would pass it off. Come on! I don't want that crap on the second line. I'll take Jagr, Cole, Jokinen, Laich, Mursak, etc. over Huds. If you're going to be as small as Hudler, you needt o be able to make it up with foot speed and strength. He lacks both of these, which makes him expendable and overpaid at 2.8 million. Even if he does not get traded this season, he will not be re-signed, because his greedy midget fingers will be grabbing for more money, even though he hasn't acheived enough to even make what he does now.

Hudler makes up for it with skill. He produced as much last year as Andrew Cogliano, Scott Gomez, Michael Frolik, and many others. Those guys have the speed or size you mention. Yet Hudler keeps up. Based on that logic, he'd be a star player if he were a fast skater. As for the cap hit, you may want someone who provides more; but he's not overpaid. Neither is Filppula, who many seem to be turning against recently. They're paid like second line forwards and thats what they are.

You can't prorate and extrapolate a player's numbers. It doesn't work like that.

Perhaps I should have pro-rated Vrbata to Hudler's ice time; because that's what he would be getting. Hence why it makes sense to compare their per-minute scoring.

[Mitchmac33 103]

Hudler makes up for it with skill. He produced as much last year as Andrew Cogliano, Scott Gomez, Michael Frolik, and many others. Those guys have the speed or size you mention. Yet Hudler keeps up. Based on that logic, he'd be a star player if he were a fast skater. As for the cap hit, you may want someone who provides more; but he's not overpaid. Neither is Filppula, who many seem to be turning against recently. They're paid like second line forwards and thats what they are.

Are you finally admitting that hudler isn't a star? lol

Edited June 21, 2011 by Mitchmac33

[uk_redwing 495]

Perhaps I should have pro-rated Vrbata to Hudler's ice time; because that's what he would be getting. Hence why it makes sense to compare their per-minute scoring.

Yes. It's such fine logic. Using the same logic Aaron Downey was on pace to score 240 points in the 2008/2009 season if he played every game on 1st line minutes by using his per-minute scoring.

2 points in 12 minutes of ice time. Double that for 1st line minutes and times by lets say 80, cos he can't play every game at that pace cos it's not fair on the opposition, and you get a final points total of the season of 240 for Aaron Downey.

Put him in the HOF!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Yes. It's such fine logic. Using the same logic Aaron Downey was on pace to score 240 points in the 2008/2009 season if he played every game on 1st line minutes by using his per-minute scoring.

2 points in 12 minutes of ice time. Double that for 1st line minutes and times by lets say 80, cos he can't play every game at that pace cos it's not fair on the opposition, and you get a final points total of the season of 240 for Aaron Downey.

Put him in the HOF!

Aaron Downey for U.S. President. :usaflag:

Or Canadian Prime Minister.

Or hell, why not both?

Edited June 22, 2011 by SouthernWingsFan

[eva unit zero 271]

Yes. It's such fine logic. Using the same logic Aaron Downey was on pace to score 240 points in the 2008/2009 season if he played every game on 1st line minutes by using his per-minute scoring.

2 points in 12 minutes of ice time. Double that for 1st line minutes and times by lets say 80, cos he can't play every game at that pace cos it's not fair on the opposition, and you get a final points total of the season of 240 for Aaron Downey.

Put him in the HOF!

Downey played a couple of games. Hudler played about 80% of Vrbata's ES time, and closer to 65-70% PP time. That's not a huge adjustment in pro-rating at ES. On the PP, sure, but Hudler scored more than 2/3 of his points at ES.

And your Downey argument is off... first-line ice time is closer to 18 minutes, but your resulting total of 240 is correct because you apparently suck at math. However, Downey was also pretty bad defensively (worse than average for the AHL even!) ... and he would have been off the ice a lot due to penalties... so even with those kind of scoring numbers, the Wings would be shorthanded a ton a la the Dead Wings days, except without their "star" on the ice. And when he WAS on the ice, his slow skating and defensive lack of awareness would lead to an advantage for the other team when they had the puck.

He might score 240 points, but would he even be the team's best player? I don't think so. I'd take Dats and Z at 80-90 points before Downey at 240, if we're only adjusting scoring numbers.

Of course, why not take Jiri Hudler from February 11th of this year? He scored a goal and 2 assists in only 15:23. Push that to 18:00 over 80 games, and we've got 94 goals and 187 assists for 281 points, with a +187 rating. Not quite Franzen's Feb 2nd performance, which works out to 390 goals, 390 points, +234. Niiiice.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Downey played a couple of games. Hudler played about 80% of Vrbata's ES time, and closer to 65-70% PP time. That's not a huge adjustment in pro-rating at ES. On the PP, sure, but Hudler scored more than 2/3 of his points at ES.

And your Downey argument is off... first-line ice time is closer to 18 minutes, but your resulting total of 240 is correct because you apparently suck at math. However, Downey was also pretty bad defensively (worse than average for the AHL even!) ... and he would have been off the ice a lot due to penalties... so even with those kind of scoring numbers, the Wings would be shorthanded a ton a la the Dead Wings days, except without their "star" on the ice. And when he WAS on the ice, his slow skating and defensive lack of awareness would lead to an advantage for the other team when they had the puck.

He might score 240 points, but would he even be the team's best player? I don't think so. I'd take Dats and Z at 80-90 points before Downey at 240, if we're only adjusting scoring numbers.

Of course, why not take Jiri Hudler from February 11th of this year? He scored a goal and 2 assists in only 15:23. Push that to 18:00 over 80 games, and we've got 94 goals and 187 assists for 281 points, with a +187 rating. Not quite Franzen's Feb 2nd performance, which works out to 390 goals, 390 points, +234. Niiiice.

Just imagine what Derek Roy could have done with the amount of Ice Time Hudler had! He played 300 less minutes and only finished two points behind him! Hemsky or Bouchard or Malone would have loved to have Hudlers ice time, they were all above Hudler .5 PPG. Imagine what Crosby could have done with how much ice time Hudler had as well! OMG, think of all the prorated possibilities!

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Just imagine what Derek Roy could have done with the amount of Ice Time Hudler had! He played 300 less minutes and only finished two points behind him! Hemsky or Bouchard or Malone would have loved to have Hudlers ice time, they were all above Hudler .5 PPG. Imagine what Crosby could have done with how much ice time Hudler had as well! OMG, think of all the prorated possibilities!

Yes, it gets aggravating. I used to try to reason with him, but I choose to just ignore it now.

Anyhow, how about Hudler to Edmonton for Theo Peckham?

Edited June 22, 2011 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I hate how people jump on hate/love bandwagons on this site. A guy has 1 "bad" year and everyone wants him shipped out. Hudler is a good player that has skill and is young and has an "ok" contract. Do I expect more from him? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean I want to ship out every player who has struggled in Detroit. If we did things that way, we would've gotten rid of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Osgood, Howard, Franzen and never signed guys like Bertuzzi and Cleary. People have "off" years and sometimes there's other things that the fans don't know that affect players. Remember a guy named Teemu Selanne before the lockout? If not, you should go research his stats and then you may understand that often times there are underlying issues (I'm not saying that Hudler has injuries, but there could be other issues at play).

[WingZNut13 99]

I hate how people jump on hate/love bandwagons on this site. A guy has 1 "bad" year and everyone wants him shipped out. Hudler is a good player that has skill and is young and has an "ok" contract. Do I expect more from him? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean I want to ship out every player who has struggled in Detroit. If we did things that way, we would've gotten rid of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Osgood, Howard, Franzen and never signed guys like Bertuzzi and Cleary. People have "off" years and sometimes there's other things that the fans don't know that affect players. Remember a guy named Teemu Selanne before the lockout? If not, you should go research his stats and then you may understand that often times there are underlying issues (I'm not saying that Hudler has injuries, but there could be other issues at play).

^THIS

I think a lot of the reason people hate Hudler is because it was so easy to yell at him throughout the season. It seemed to me that he never made the transition form the KHL. But regardless of the player, there is always going to be someone who doesn't agree. With a player like Hudler, it's easy to jump on the "I hate Hudler and I want him GONE!" bandwagon because he came from the KHL with all these expectations. As for those who love him, they either see some potential most are missing or they have some sick sort of man crush. (for ladies, it's not sick) IMHO, I think he has the potential to be great forward and HUGE asset to this franchise. However, if we can get rid of him for someone who has proven they can put points on the sheet, then I think it's worth it. Kenny can't always focus on what he might turn into. He has a huge cap space and the opportunity to make this franchise great this season. Hudler could turn out to be a 50-65 point guy next season, no one is going to know, unless you can read the future then I would like ya to tell me when we Sidney Crosby is going to retire so I can start to plan the party. Kenny is going to have some interesting decisions to make come July 1st.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Yes, it gets aggravating. I used to try to reason with him, but I choose to just ignore it now.

I kind of hope he at least gets paid by Hudler somehow. Otherwise... What a waste of life, you know?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I kind of hope he at least gets paid by Hudler somehow. Otherwise... What a waste of life, you know?

Everyone's got their favorite players, but i've never seen anything like it. I'll admit if John Erskine was on this team, i'd try to sneak him on the 1st pairing with Lidstrom when I compile my lines!

Edited June 22, 2011 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[eva unit zero 271]

Everyone's got their favorite players, but i've never seen anything like it. I'll admit if John Erskine was on this team, i'd try to sneak him on the 1st pairing with Lidstrom when I compile my lines!

The big difference is that Hudler's most effective on the first or second line with other skilled offensive players. Erskine's role and skill set doesn't work as a partner for Lidstrom. Kronwall maybe, Kindl definitely, but not Lidstrom. You guys laugh because I support Hudler and think "He puts Hudler there because of his hard-on for him." No, it's because that's where he best helps the team. Just as making a fourth line with Helm as the center, despite the fact he's much better than a fourth liner, makes the most sense because the Wings' lineup features the pieces for three scoring lines and one checking line. Helm is about perfect for that checking line.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

^THIS

I think a lot of the reason people hate Hudler is because it was so easy to yell at him throughout the season. It seemed to me that he never made the transition form the KHL. But regardless of the player, there is always going to be someone who doesn't agree. With a player like Hudler, it's easy to jump on the "I hate Hudler and I want him GONE!" bandwagon because he came from the KHL with all these expectations. As for those who love him, they either see some potential most are missing or they have some sick sort of man crush. (for ladies, it's not sick) IMHO, I think he has the potential to be great forward and HUGE asset to this franchise. However, if we can get rid of him for someone who has proven they can put points on the sheet, then I think it's worth it. Kenny can't always focus on what he might turn into. He has a huge cap space and the opportunity to make this franchise great this season. Hudler could turn out to be a 50-65 point guy next season, no one is going to know, unless you can read the future then I would like ya to tell me when we Sidney Crosby is going to retire so I can start to plan the party. Kenny is going to have some interesting decisions to make come July 1st.

Ya, but what do we get for someone like Hudler at the cap hit we have him at? I mean he's a 2-3 line player and it seems like we want him to be a 1st line player. Now I can see why people are upset with Hudler as he is not filling his potential but I think some people are putting way too high of expectations on him, sure he is a skilled player but he's definitely no superstar and is still relatively young so we can still evaluate him and if he continues to underperform than we have options to replace him.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

The big difference is that Hudler's most effective on the first or second line with other skilled offensive players. Erskine's role and skill set doesn't work as a partner for Lidstrom. Kronwall maybe, Kindl definitely, but not Lidstrom. You guys laugh because I support Hudler and think "He puts Hudler there because of his hard-on for him." No, it's because that's where he best helps the team. Just as making a fourth line with Helm as the center, despite the fact he's much better than a fourth liner, makes the most sense because the Wings' lineup features the pieces for three scoring lines and one checking line. Helm is about perfect for that checking line.

I just don't think he works out HERE. In another system elsewhere? There's a possibility. Look at Leino. He's thriving in Philly and is due for quite a raise. Some players just plain don't work out in particular systems. He's had plenty of chances here though, and we both know that.

[eva unit zero 271]

I just don't think he works out HERE. In another system elsewhere? There's a possibility. Look at Leino. He's thriving in Philly and is due for quite a raise. Some players just plain don't work out in particular systems. He's had plenty of chances here though, and we both know that.

Leino is playing first line ice time on Briere's wing. That's "thriving". Hudler scored like a monster when he played time with Datsyuk or later in a short period with Zetterberg. Yet that's "he can't play without a star player" so I am wondering what exactly is going through your head. You want Hudler to "thrive" the way Leino is?

Hudler has much more natural talent and better work ethic than Leino. He has chemistry with both Dats and Z. Give him time on the wing with one of them and see what happens! Hudler's scoring numbers this season, even with his long dry spell, still placed him in the "second line forward" range. That shows you how absolutely sick his second half was.

Of course now we'll get to the argument of "Well, he spent a lot of his second half with Dats or Z." should bring you to the conclusion of: SO WHAT? HE SCORED, RIGHT? I DON'T CARE IF HIS LINEMATES ARE THE LITTLE CAESAR'S GUY AND THE NOID!

You argue Hudler doesn't work in the Wings' system. He scored 31 points in 43 games to close out the season, so that's probably wrong. Look, I get that you don't like him because he's small. That's fine. But making s*** up about how well a player is playing because you either don't know what you are talking about or don't care how well the player is actually doing? That's ridiculous. If you want to say that Hudler doesn't play well in the Wings' system because of his slump, then the same can apply to Franzen. Ship him out for a 4th rounder. See how silly that sounds? Both guys are worth much more, and neither are likely to be traded unless a good offer comes up.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Downey played a couple of games. Hudler played about 80% of Vrbata's ES time, and closer to 65-70% PP time. That's not a huge adjustment in pro-rating at ES. On the PP, sure, but Hudler scored more than 2/3 of his points at ES.

And your Downey argument is off... first-line ice time is closer to 18 minutes, but your resulting total of 240 is correct because you apparently suck at math. However, Downey was also pretty bad defensively (worse than average for the AHL even!) ... and he would have been off the ice a lot due to penalties... so even with those kind of scoring numbers, the Wings would be shorthanded a ton a la the Dead Wings days, except without their "star" on the ice. And when he WAS on the ice, his slow skating and defensive lack of awareness would lead to an advantage for the other team when they had the puck.

He might score 240 points, but would he even be the team's best player? I don't think so. I'd take Dats and Z at 80-90 points before Downey at 240, if we're only adjusting scoring numbers.

Of course, why not take Jiri Hudler from February 11th of this year? He scored a goal and 2 assists in only 15:23. Push that to 18:00 over 80 games, and we've got 94 goals and 187 assists for 281 points, with a +187 rating. Not quite Franzen's Feb 2nd performance, which works out to 390 goals, 390 points, +234. Niiiice.

You cannot be this dense. I refuse to believe it.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

You cannot be this dense. I refuse to believe it.

Like I said, he's probably getting paid a relatively princely sum by Hudler's agent or something. Because who would waste their time like that?

[eva unit zero 271]

You cannot be this dense. I refuse to believe it.

There are one of two possible reasons for you to have said that. Either you think I don't get the point of the Downey comparison, or that I really think Hudler can score 94 goals and 281 points in one season.

It seems more like you're being ignorant in failing to see my point that ridiculously huge differences in time/games/etc ruin that kind of comparison, but relatively small differences such as those between Hudler's TOI and Vrbata's TOI are not the kind that make a comparison irrelevant.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

There are one of two possible reasons for you to have said that. Either you think I don't get the point of the Downey comparison, or that I really think Hudler can score 94 goals and 281 points in one season.

It seems more like you're being ignorant in failing to see my point that ridiculously huge differences in time/games/etc ruin that kind of comparison, but relatively small differences such as those between Hudler's TOI and Vrbata's TOI are not the kind that make a comparison irrelevant.

*Sigh*

Looks like I was dead wrong. You are this dense and brick-headed, and I am done even trying to remotely communicate how dense and brick-headed you are about your favorite player(s) because you will not even consider listening to anybody about how dense and brick-headed you are about your favorite player(s).

Edited June 23, 2011 by SouthernWingsFan

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Pfft - what the hell are you smoking?

Peckham's too rugged - too tough - stands up for his teammates - is a respectable #5/#6 Dman...We sure as hell don't need that!

You know what, you're right. Bring Brett Lebda back, Ken

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Yes, it gets aggravating. I used to try to reason with him, but I choose to just ignore it now.

Anyhow, how about Hudler to Edmonton for Theo Peckham?

Edmonton is the last team that needs Hudler, but this deal would be amazing IMO.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Edmonton is the last team that needs Hudler, but this deal would be amazing IMO.

Well they do need to fill up some cap space. Not sure whether Edmonton is tossing his name around or not.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Evidently Brian Burke has said he's willing to discuss his first 3 picks for an established player that can help the Leafs now. If "established...help now" doesn't scream for Kenny to trade Huds off to Toronto, I don't know what does.

[Rivalred 630]

Am I the only one who thinks Blake Wheeler would do well here and could fill the missing spark?

Edited June 23, 2011 by Rivalred

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Am I the only one who thinks Blake Wheeler would do well here and could fill the missing spark?

I could definitely see Wheeler here. Where would you project him to play in the lineup? I'd say third line with some spot duty on the second line.