Hudler's Future

[mmamolo 287]

Sorry for having a difference of opinion, I watched every game this year and since he came back from the injury was nothing special. He certainly was not one of our best forward nor did he look like hwas working hard (especially in the playoffs) of course on here apparently we don't allow others to have their own opinions. Cleary is the most overrated player by LGW

also my 2nd statement was meant about hudler

You can have a difference of opinion all you want; no one will stop you or ever say you can't. But at the same time all the posters who are reading your ridiculous comment about Cleary being trash can be of the opinion that your initial opinion is just about the stupidest, most uninformed comment they've ever read. You saying that you watched every game this year as some sort of back up as to why Cleary has 'progressively gotten worse' is a load of crap. Personally, I hope this 'progression' continues because that means he'll continue to bust his ass every shift, fill any role he's asked, and have another career year in goals and points.

This, I took it as him saying that the Wings were holding back his "talent". You have to earn that top line spot. Since his return he has not shown he deserves to be there, and I bet he still thinks he deserves to start on the first line.

And I still say this was about money, he was on a Stanley Cup winning team so he thought that automatically earned him more money. Again, you need to prove your worth both on the ice and monetarily. Just my take on him.

Wow, talk about putting words into someone's mouth. This is a perfect example of people reacting emotionally to Hudler leaving for the KHL and projeting their anger on to him as opposed to being objective about the situation. Nothing in his comments even suggested your interpretation let alone did he actually say that.

Well, then let him go to another team where he can develop to the level he wants to be at. He is not gonna be that player here. See ya later Hudler! I hope beyond hope that he goes somewhere and becomes a great player. He just isn't gonna do that here, he has been given chances from line 1 to line 4, he stunk... Give it up, it's over, let go, nobody listen's to techno...

You sound like an angry, jealous girlfriend who saw her boyfriend innocently talking to another girl and is throwing a fit. 'Well, if you like her so much why don't you just go date her and have sex with her you ******* cause you're never gettin any of THIS again!'

You guys need to get over this crap

[HankthaTank 1,100]

cool story. can you answer the question?

the answer is he wasn't terrible. next question?

[Guest stinky fish taco]

the answer is he wasn't terrible. next question?

that's subjective.

the question was: was he injured? anything?

[HankthaTank 1,100]

the question was: was he injured? anything?

that's presumptive

the true one maybe: who wasn't at the end of this season?

Edited May 19, 2011 by HankthaTank

[HankthaTank 1,100]

That title belongs to Eaves or Stuart.

Edited May 19, 2011 by HankthaTank

[WizardOfOz30 1,886]

Wow, talk about putting words into someone's mouth. This is a perfect example of people reacting emotionally to Hudler leaving for the KHL and projeting their anger on to him as opposed to being objective about the situation. Nothing in his comments even suggested your interpretation let alone did he actually say that.

Yes I have interpreted his comments differently. I had a problem with him going to the KHL before I read those comments because he is the one that signed a contract with the Wings and chose not to honor it. He was an RFA if I recall, and since the Wings didn't give him what he felt he was worth and instead of agreeing to the arbitration and playing the next season with the Wings he took off for more money.

I don't claim to understand the business side of hockey as far as the contracts and RFA agreements, I do not know how long he is signed with us. But if he could have just stuck with the Wings for that season, maybe requested a trade or tried to earn himself the spot on the team that he wanted things I might feel differently.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Yes I have interpreted his comments differently. I had a problem with him going to the KHL before I read those comments because he is the one that signed a contract with the Wings and chose not to honor it. He was an RFA if I recall, and since the Wings didn't give him what he felt he was worth and instead of agreeing to the arbitration and playing the next season with the Wings he took off for more money.

I don't claim to understand the business side of hockey as far as the contracts and RFA agreements, I do not know how long he is signed with us. But if he could have just stuck with the Wings for that season, maybe requested a trade or tried to earn himself the spot on the team that he wanted things I might feel differently.

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand you crucify him for leaving because, according to your interpretation, he felt he deserved more respect and more ice-time when he hadn't earned it. On the other, you crucify him for wanting more money. It seems like you're just looking for reasons to hate the guy.

And I say that as someone who is not a big Hudler fan, but because of his play on the ice, not because of the 2% of what happens off the ice that we as fans are exposed to.

[achildr1 255]

I feel like this thread is going to be a lot like the San Jose Photoshop war thread. All of LGW vs one guy (in that case, Grypho. Who contributed phenominally I might add.)

So, Eva, I'm going to throw my first stone.

Hudler, like a rabid puppy, needs to find a new home. If there is a player on our team who doesn't fit the Red Wing mold, its The Happy Hoodlum. Where do I start? He took off in the middle of his contract, is a one dimensional player, cannot play physically, how old is he now?, is too expensive to play on the bottom two lines, is too streaky to play in the top two lines, is a complementary player at best, was a healthy scratch several times (deserved to be), and was 4 minutes away from be Leino 2.0 this season. He's basically everything we hate about Franzen except he's 4'11".

[mmamolo 287]

Yes I have interpreted his comments differently. I had a problem with him going to the KHL before I read those comments because he is the one that signed a contract with the Wings and chose not to honor it. He was an RFA if I recall, and since the Wings didn't give him what he felt he was worth and instead of agreeing to the arbitration and playing the next season with the Wings he took off for more money.

I don't claim to understand the business side of hockey as far as the contracts and RFA agreements, I do not know how long he is signed with us. But if he could have just stuck with the Wings for that season, maybe requested a trade or tried to earn himself the spot on the team that he wanted things I might feel differently.

Interpreting comments is one thing but being completely off base with what someone says is another. People on this board have looked for a reason to hate him since he went to the KHL simply because he went to the KHL. Using these comments as fuel to that fire is just another example. I personally don't care if you hate the guy or not but if you're going to hate him you should do yourself the service of at least doing it for the right reasons. If you don't understand the business side of hockey or even how the situation unfolded between Hudler, the Wings and the KHL then maybe, just maybe, you're reacting inappropriately to the fact the Hudler went to the KHL and didn't play for the Wings because you obviously don't understand what really happened.

The Wings couldnt fit him under the cap that year and Hudler left for the KHL with their blessing and the intent to honor the arbitrator's contract upon returning to the NHL. Had he stayed with the Wings that year Holland would have had to move other players from the roster in order to keep him.

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand you crucify him for leaving because, according to your interpretation, he felt he deserved more respect and more ice-time when he hadn't earned it. On the other, you crucify him for wanting more money. It seems like you're just looking for reasons to hate the guy.

And I say that as someone who is not a big Hudler fan, but because of his play on the ice, not because of the 2% of what happens off the ice that we as fans are exposed to.

So many people on this board grasp at straws when looking for reasons to hate him. If you want to hate him for his streaky play, his slow foot speed, his size, his roster spot, his lack of production this season, his cap hit then so be it. But when a player exercises his right to arbitration, then with the blessing of his team's management goes to the KHL only to return to the NHL to honor the SPC he signed with the NHL team the only reason other reason people hate him is because they're being emotional. If you hate him for the hockey player he is and you don't think he fits on the Wings then cool, so be it.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Interpreting comments is one thing but being completely off base with what someone says is another. People on this board have looked for a reason to hate him since he went to the KHL simply because he went to the KHL. Using these comments as fuel to that fire is just another example. I personally don't care if you hate the guy or not but if you're going to hate him you should do yourself the service of at least doing it for the right reasons. If you don't understand the business side of hockey or even how the situation unfolded between Hudler, the Wings and the KHL then maybe, just maybe, you're reacting inappropriately to the fact the Hudler went to the KHL and didn't play for the Wings because you obviously don't understand what really happened.

The Wings couldnt fit him under the cap that year and Hudler left for the KHL with their blessing and the intent to honor the arbitrator's contract upon returning to the NHL. Had he stayed with the Wings that year Holland would have had to move other players from the roster in order to keep him.

So many people on this board grasp at straws when looking for reasons to hate him. If you want to hate him for his streaky play, his slow foot speed, his size, his roster spot, his lack of production this season, his cap hit then so be it. But when a player exercises his right to arbitration, then with the blessing of his team's management goes to the KHL only to return to the NHL to honor the SPC he signed with the NHL team the only reason other reason people hate him is because they're being emotional. If you hate him for the hockey player he is and you don't think he fits on the Wings then cool, so be it.

Some people (1) are tied to the Red Wings emotionally for life a lot more than individual players are and (2) probably are all about honoring the length of your contracts.

I'm sure these people probably get that individuals switch teams/jobs or whatever all the time and that you can waive no trade clauses or leave early or whatever, but they probably still stand for the 2 things I said regardless.

It's neither right or wrong, bad or good.

Probably just best to leave it at that instead of cherry picking people for why they dislike somebody or dislike a concept.

[WizardOfOz30 1,886]

Interpreting comments is one thing but being completely off base with what someone says is another. People on this board have looked for a reason to hate him since he went to the KHL simply because he went to the KHL. Using these comments as fuel to that fire is just another example. I personally don't care if you hate the guy or not but if you're going to hate him you should do yourself the service of at least doing it for the right reasons. If you don't understand the business side of hockey or even how the situation unfolded between Hudler, the Wings and the KHL then maybe, just maybe, you're reacting inappropriately to the fact the Hudler went to the KHL and didn't play for the Wings because you obviously don't understand what really happened.

The Wings couldnt fit him under the cap that year and Hudler left for the KHL with their blessing and the intent to honor the arbitrator's contract upon returning to the NHL. Had he stayed with the Wings that year Holland would have had to move other players from the roster in order to keep him.

So many people on this board grasp at straws when looking for reasons to hate him. If you want to hate him for his streaky play, his slow foot speed, his size, his roster spot, his lack of production this season, his cap hit then so be it. But when a player exercises his right to arbitration, then with the blessing of his team's management goes to the KHL only to return to the NHL to honor the SPC he signed with the NHL team the only reason other reason people hate him is because they're being emotional. If you hate him for the hockey player he is and you don't think he fits on the Wings then cool, so be it.

I guess the easiest way to put it is that I think Hudler played pretty good the year we won the Cup, but I don't think it was good enough to demand a better place on the team and more money. Then when he returned he did not perform well at all, so my biggest reason for wanting him gone is because I feel that his play has been very sub-par this past season. My emotional reasons are still there as far as the way interpreted his leaving, but regardless of that he is not some phenomenal player that helps make this team better. If he thinks he's got more talent then maybe he needs to find another team that will allow him to play that way because he sure isn't showing it with the Wings.

[mmamolo 287]

Some people (1) are tied to the Red Wings emotionally for life a lot more than individual players are and (2) probably are all about honoring the length of your contracts.

I'm sure these people probably get that individuals switch teams/jobs or whatever all the time and that you can waive no trade clauses or leave early or whatever, but they probably still stand for the 2 things I said regardless.

It's neither right or wrong, bad or good.

Probably just best to leave it at that instead of cherry picking people for why they dislike somebody or dislike a concept.

I would imagine that the majority of people on this board are tied to the Wings emotionally. I know I am. However, I do think that you should be able to view situations, such as Hudler's, objectively despite your emotionally attachment. At the time I wanted him to stay as much as the next fan but when he left I found out the circumstances (mostly because I was emotionally invested in the team and I wanted to know what happened) but I based my opinion on the facts not my emotions. Having blind hatred for the guy because he didn't do what you wanted him to do is a little immature in my opinion. That's not meant as an insult but more as a description of how a lot of the Hudler Haters come across on these boards.

At the end of the day I'm 'cherry picking' why people hate the guy because a lot of the time it's being presented as one thing when in actuality it's another. As I said in the previous post if you hate the guy for how he plays then so be it. Hell, I don't even care if you hate the guy for leaving for the KHL but don't try to justify it with all kinds of inaccurate facts about the situation. If you want to hate him simply because he left and you wanted him to stay, even though that's 100% an emotional reaction that's fine too, but when people start shooting out all kinds of garbage that misrepresent the situation and condratict the scenario that's not cool. Everyone can obviously have their opinions and those opinions can be based on whatever the hell they want. But if people are going to fill this board with opinions and contradictory justifications other posters (such as myself) are going to respond by calling them on it and I think that's fair. If I did that I would imagine someone would call me on my s***.

I guess the easiest way to put it is that I think Hudler played pretty good the year we won the Cup, but I don't think it was good enough to demand a better place on the team and more money. Then when he returned he did not perform well at all, so my biggest reason for wanting him gone is because I feel that his play has been very sub-par this past season. My emotional reasons are still there as far as the way interpreted his leaving, but regardless of that he is not some phenomenal player that helps make this team better. If he thinks he's got more talent then maybe he needs to find another team that will allow him to play that way because he sure isn't showing it with the Wings.

If you're biggest reason for wanting him gone is his sub-par play then that's cool. That's just not what was said in the first place. If you hate the guy simply for leaving, regarless of the circumstances, that's fine too. I'm not here to try and change your mind. Personally I'm not trying to say he should stay. I never said he was some 'phenomenal player' in the first place. Im just saying that in terms of your emotional hatred for the guy maybe if you had all the facts you would have understood why it played out the way it did.

[WizardOfOz30 1,886]

If you're biggest reason for wanting him gone is his sub-par play then that's cool. That's just not what was said in the first place. If you hate the guy simply for leaving, regarless of the circumstances, that's fine too. I'm not here to try and change your mind. Personally I'm not trying to say he should stay. I never said he was some 'phenomenal player' in the first place. Im just saying that in terms of your emotional hatred for the guy maybe if you had all the facts you would have understood why it played out the way it did.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth that was just my way of explaining it. I know sometimes I do just have an emotional hate for a player for no other reason than I saw something that they did that rubbed me the wrong way. With Hudler it was the contract issue that made me a little more "irrational" because I believe that when you make an agreement you stick with it whether you're happy about it or not. If you can change something about it then make another agreement. I felt that the Wings may have "agreed" to him going to the KHL simply because it was the best option for the team, not because they actually approved of it.

I think I sound like I can't make up my mind about him. I seem to have quite a few issues with Hudler, thanks for the therapy working that out.

Edited May 19, 2011 by WizardOfOz30

[mmamolo 287]

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth that was just my way of explaining it. I know sometimes I do just have an emotional hate for a player for no other reason than I saw something that they did that rubbed me the wrong way. With Hudler it was the contract issue that made me a little more "irrational" because I believe that when you make an agreement you stick with it whether you're happy about it or not. If you can change something about it then make another agreement. I felt that the Wings may have "agreed" to him going to the KHL simply because it was the best option for the team, not because they actually approved of it.

I think I sound like I can't make up my mind about him. I seem to have quite a few issues with Hudler, thanks for the therapy working that out.

At least you're reasonable about - probably more so than I would have been had I been in your shoes. I get it though, I mean people rub me the wrong way all the time. Ultimately you're right though, the Wings only did agree to it because it benefitted them due to their cap problem. Had they had the room to fit Hudler under the cap there's no way they would have been as accomodating. I don't think any team would really be approving of that situation unless they ultimately had no choice. Really, the Wings had to do it and had to welcome him back with open arms so that they didn't lose the him as an asset. If they made it known they disapproved he maybe never would have come back or if he did come back they would have had to trade him and gotten nothing in return. When he was coming back he had value because he was coming off of a productive year in the KHL and before that a productive year in the NHL. It would have been tough to swallow to get a late round draft pick, or worse waiving him, because Wings Management publicly showed their displeasure with the move to the KHL.

[Guest Shoreline]

So many people on this board grasp at straws when looking for reasons to hate him. If you want to hate him for his streaky play, his slow foot speed, his size, his roster spot, his lack of production this season, his cap hit then so be it. But when a player exercises his right to arbitration, then with the blessing of his team's management goes to the KHL only to return to the NHL to honor the SPC he signed with the NHL team the only reason other reason people hate him is because they're being emotional. If you hate him for the hockey player he is and you don't think he fits on the Wings then cool, so be it.

I agree completely.

That being said, he impressed me early on in the season, but I didn't like the way it ended, season and playoffs.

[Guest Crymson]

I agree completely.

That being said, he impressed me early on in the season, but I didn't like the way it ended, season and playoffs.

I'm not sure if you're remembering correctly, because he was indisputably the worst forward on the team in the first half of the season.

[Guest Shoreline]

I'm not sure if you're remembering correctly, because he was indisputably the worst forward on the team in the first half of the season.

Eh, he had a bad first few months and I'm sure I wondered what the f*** he was doing out there, but he picked up his game before the new year until about the All Star break and impressed me quite a bit with the opportunities he created, which surely he had every bit of a chance of doing being on the power play fairly often. After that, things got worse and I'm much harder on the boys come clutch (i.e. late late season / early playoffs) time. Without a doubt, if he doesn't pick up his game next season, gtfo. There was no excuse for the floating he was doing at the end of the season and into playoffs, no defending him for coming from the KHL and being snakebitten that late.

[eva unit zero 271]

Yet you think he can score 105 points over 82 games if he played with Datsyuk, who btw has topped out at 97.

I think he can score 105 points? It's certainly possible he could do it, but I don't think it would happen. What I have said is that in the eleven games he played with Datsyuk, he was on pace for a 105 point season. That's not the same as me saying "I think he would keep up that scoring all year!" but you don't seem to be one for accuracy.

I'm a little confused. Hudler only played 11 games in a top 6 role?

Also, you mention stats to support Hudler from previous seasons, yet when people show stats to support franzen you disregard them.

When have people mentioned stats to show support for Franzen? What stats?

[Guest Crymson]

I think he can score 105 points? It's certainly possible he could do it, but I don't think it would happen. What I have said is that in the eleven games he played with Datsyuk, he was on pace for a 105 point season. That's not the same as me saying "I think he would keep up that scoring all year!" but you don't seem to be one for accuracy.

So you've finally admitted that said 11-game sample is meaningless as an overall indicator. Thank you.

When have people mentioned stats to show support for Franzen? What stats?

His streak in '08 was mentioned. Hudler has never come close to topping that.

[sputman 1,268]

hudler's new facebook group

[mmamolo 287]

I agree completely.

That being said, he impressed me early on in the season, but I didn't like the way it ended, season and playoffs.

Yeah, I mean there were definitely stretches of this year that I didn't like for him either. He had some decent and good stretches though that I don't think people on this board want to give him fair credit for. Obviously his had his 25ish game production streak where 11 of those games were played with Datsyuk. But he had other stretches where at least he competed. In an off year if you're not going to score you at least need to compete. I think what was frustrating about him was his inconsistency this year.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I think what was frustrating about him was his inconsistency this year.

Correct. I mean, look at Jimmy. Ask everyone what they think at this exact second and then ask what they think about Huds. It's 'what have you done for me lately?' in Hockeytown always.

[mmamolo 287]

Correct. I mean, look at Jimmy. Ask everyone what they think at this exact second and then ask what they think about Huds. It's 'what have you done for me lately?' in Hockeytown always.

ALthough most people do think that way I don't. It takes a lot to change my opinion on people/players. It takes a lot for me to believe a player is awesome (more than just a flash in the pan) and it takes a lot for me to believe a player turns to s***. That being said I can definitely understand how confidence in players goes up and down like crazy.

[Datsyerberger 279]

If we can't get some sort of value of him (read: better value than we got for Leino, who sucked worse at the time than Hudler did this season), then I'd be okay with keeping him. But honestly, I don't think he really fits anywhere in Babcock's current line schema and that's not a good thing when you're eating $2.8m in cap space, so I don't expect him to be back. Honestly, I'd rather not see a forward come back in such a trade. Give me a pick/prospect/d-man.

[Mitchmac33 103]

I think he can score 105 points? It's certainly possible he could do it, but I don't think it would happen. What I have said is that in the eleven games he played with Datsyuk, he was on pace for a 105 point season. That's not the same as me saying "I think he would keep up that scoring all year!" but you don't seem to be one for accuracy.

When have people mentioned stats to show support for Franzen? What stats?

You still haven't answered one of my questions. And that was, did Hudler only play 11 games in a top 6 role?

And Crymson beat me to it, people brought up the amazing run Franzen had in '08.

Do you really think it's possible that he could score 105 points? Really?