Hudler's Future

[eva unit zero 271]

Correct. I mean, look at Jimmy. Ask everyone what they think at this exact second and then ask what they think about Huds. It's 'what have you done for me lately?' in Hockeytown always.

Huds wasn't given credit for being one of the team's best players in the second half until he was scoring like crazy on Datsyuk's wing. And even then, it was "he only plays well with Datsyuk" so to argue "what do people think of him now is a loaded argument. Hudler's last 35 games were FAR better than Franzen's last 35. Hudler outplayed Franzen against Phoenix even before Franzen's injury, and was better against the Sharks. Yet Franzen gets "Oh, it's ok, he was injured" for the playoffs and in the regular season it's "he'll be awesome in the playoffs" while Hudler is "he's too small/slow" or if he was knocked down it's "damn weakling, replace him with (insert random big-bodied player here)" so it's not really fair. People think Franzen is an elite scoring winger because of what he can do sometimes in the playoffs or the streaks he has gone on. It's not true. Filppula is the team's third-best forward, and Franzen and Hudler are about equal in ability. Cleary is just behind them in the #6 spot.

You still haven't answered one of my questions. And that was, did Hudler only play 11 games in a top 6 role?

And Crymson beat me to it, people brought up the amazing run Franzen had in '08.

Do you really think it's possible that he could score 105 points? Really?

Hudler played maybe 15-20 games in a top-six role. And he scored nearly a point-per-game for a stretch of about 30 games. Only two other forwards on the team scored at/near a point-per-game for the entirety of their top-six time this season. Z and Dats. Franzen, Cleary, scored close to 0.7 PPG. Bert, Flip, Homer and Huds all had about 0.5 per game. Huds was the only one who played outside the top six most of the year. Even with his 30-game scoring slump where he played a considerable amount on the fourth line, he still ended up tied for seventh in team points in the regular season. Give him a chance in the top-six and he'll tear it up. Not 105 points, but I would put him down for third on the team if everyone stays healthy.

[cupforwings 138]

I think he can score 105 points? It's certainly possible he could do it, but I don't think it would happen. What I have said is that in the eleven games he played with Datsyuk, he was on pace for a 105 point season. That's not the same as me saying "I think he would keep up that scoring all year!" but you don't seem to be one for accuracy.

When have people mentioned stats to show support for Franzen? What stats?

No, it is absolutely impossible. There is a 0% chance that Hudler would reach 100 points ever in his career. The guy sucks. He was worthless virtually the whole season, and non-existent in the playoffs. The dumbest thing Babacock ever said was that Hulder would reach 70 pts this year. Go back to russia Hudler.

[Guest Crymson]

Huds wasn't given credit for being one of the team's best players in the second half until he was scoring like crazy on Datsyuk's wing. And even then, it was "he only plays well with Datsyuk" so to argue "what do people think of him now is a loaded argument. Hudler's last 35 games were FAR better than Franzen's last 35. Hudler outplayed Franzen against Phoenix even before Franzen's injury, and was better against the Sharks. Yet Franzen gets "Oh, it's ok, he was injured" for the playoffs and in the regular season it's "he'll be awesome in the playoffs" while Hudler is "he's too small/slow" or if he was knocked down it's "damn weakling, replace him with (insert random big-bodied player here)" so it's not really fair. People think Franzen is an elite scoring winger because of what he can do sometimes in the playoffs or the streaks he has gone on. It's not true. Filppula is the team's third-best forward, and Franzen and Hudler are about equal in ability. Cleary is just behind them in the #6 spot.

Hudler played maybe 15-20 games in a top-six role. And he scored nearly a point-per-game for a stretch of about 30 games. Only two other forwards on the team scored at/near a point-per-game for the entirety of their top-six time this season. Z and Dats. Franzen, Cleary, scored close to 0.7 PPG. Bert, Flip, Homer and Huds all had about 0.5 per game. Huds was the only one who played outside the top six most of the year. Even with his 30-game scoring slump where he played a considerable amount on the fourth line, he still ended up tied for seventh in team points in the regular season. Give him a chance in the top-six and he'll tear it up. Not 105 points, but I would put him down for third on the team if everyone stays healthy.

I'm sure it's easy for you to ignore the fact that Hudler got loads of PP time in the first half of the season and was able to produce pretty much nothing with it.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm sure it's easy for you to ignore the fact that Hudler got loads of PP time in the first half of the season and was able to produce pretty much nothing with it.

I didn't ignore it. I recognized that he as doing poorly. He was also removed from the PP after ten games or so and then put back on once he improved his play. But I point again to the Franzen example. The Wings don't have a shortage of offensively skilled players, yet Franzen was eating up PP time at the end of the season and not scoring.

[Mitchmac33 103]

I didn't ignore it. I recognized that he as doing poorly. He was also removed from the PP after ten games or so and then put back on once he improved his play. But I point again to the Franzen example. The Wings don't have a shortage of offensively skilled players, yet Franzen was eating up PP time at the end of the season and not scoring.

So you'd rather have a not scoring Hudler than a not scoring Franzen on the PP?

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Eva, your arguments for Franzen vs Hudler are inherently flawed. Both were subpar for long stretches this season. The difference is that Franzen has demonstrated the ability to bring it and simply take games over, putting the team on his back, especially in the playoffs. Even during the 11-game stretch where Hudler flourished with Datsyuk and Cleary, he was not the single-handed force that Franzen has been.

Franzen was not good the last third of the season, that's true. But that was a slump for him and when he plays to the best of his ability, his game is better than Hudler's best in every area but passing. I believe that if you polled everybody on this forum, you would be the only one who would rather have Hudler than Franzen.

[Guest Crymson]

Eva, your arguments for Franzen vs Hudler are inherently flawed. Both were subpar for long stretches this season. The difference is that Franzen has demonstrated the ability to bring it and simply take games over, putting the team on his back, especially in the playoffs. Even during the 11-game stretch where Hudler flourished with Datsyuk and Cleary, he was not the single-handed force that Franzen has been.

Franzen was not good the last third of the season, that's true. But that was a slump for him and when he plays to the best of his ability, his game is better than Hudler's best in every area but passing. I believe that if you polled everybody on this forum, you would be the only one who would rather have Hudler than Franzen.

Let's not forget that Franzen is faster, better defensively, more physical, and far more difficult to knock off the puck.

[Guest Crymson]

Lol... even national sports writers have taken notice of Hudler.

Once again, the NHL playoffs continue without the Red Wings, who were ousted from the postseason in the second round by the Sharks for a second consecutive year.

This begs the question: What has to happen for Detroit to remain in -- or in some eyes, return to -- Stanley Cup contention?

While the urge for some may be "blow it up and start over," the Sporting News' Craig Custance argues otherwise. Here are a few suggestions for the Wings' to stay contenders:

1. Convince Nicklas Lidstrom to return for one more year.

2. Hire Bob Boughner to replace McCrimmon.

3. Resist the temptation to go young.

4. Trade Jiri Hudler.

Let's dig a bit deeper into Custance's third and fourth tips. Part of the reason the Wings shouldn't go young is because they can't, at least that's according to senior vice president and Hall-of-Famer Jimmy Devellano.

Jimmy D: "When you talk about the Red Wings farm system, you have to cut the Red Wings slack in this respect. We never get a high draft pick. When we were in our glory years, we were trading picks. Not only did we not get early picks, we were trading. Because of that you don't have a big supply of young players coming. That's because we've done a lot of winning."

And as for No. 4, well ...

Custance: "Holland has to find a way to get Hudler’s $2.875 million cap hit off the books for next season. With the salary cap expected to creep north of $60 million next season, Holland would have flexibility in free agency if he found a trade partner for Hudler. Hudler had 10 goals in 73 regular-season games and was useless in the playoffs. A few extra million goes a long way for Holland, who can usually find a free agent willing to sign at a reasonable price to try and win in Detroit."

[e_prime 1,936]

[sarcasm] We can trade both of them... [/sarcasm]

...but we all know who will get more in return value.

[brett 1,029]

trade bait. capable of putting up 60pts a season even though he hasnt

trade with the rangers for prust, del zotto and biron

Edited May 22, 2011 by brett

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Let's not forget that Franzen is faster, better defensively, more physical, and far more difficult to knock off the puck.

Like I said, every area except for passing.

[Konnan511 1,736]

That near 3mil in cap space of Hudlers could go towards a highly effective top 4 DMan or a speedy winger capable of hitting and sniping.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

That near 3mil in cap space of Hudlers could go towards a highly effective top 4 DMan or a speedy winger capable of hitting and sniping.

Yup. I don't think holland will get great trade value for Hudler, but even a salary dump trade could free up the money to be put to better use.

[Guest Crymson]

I think Hudler's main change since '09 has been in his attitude, and I really have no respect for that.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I think Hudler's main change since '09 has been in his attitude, and I really have no respect for that.

And what, pray tell, might that be?

[Konnan511 1,736]

Yup. I don't think holland will get great trade value for Hudler, but even a salary dump trade could free up the money to be put to better use.

It'd be nice to get a second rounder for him, but a 3rd and 5th is something Hakan could do wonders with. A change of scenery would allow Hudler to put up great numbers, he just won't be able to do it here.

I think Hudler's main change since '09 has been in his attitude, and I really have no respect for that.

I don't believe that, unless you mean in the first half of the season he was a bigger ***** than Filppula and refused to compete. After he was benched in the playoffs he finally started showing some heart. Too little, too late, though.

[Guest Crymson]

And what, pray tell, might that be?

My, my. Someone's hostile to just about everyone today. Is something wrong?

What's different is that he's no longer willing to play the scrappy, high-energy style that is necessary if he's to score with his size. He floats.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Crymson

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

My, my. Someone's hostile to just about everyone today. Is something wrong?

What was hostile about my comment? You call him out for his attitude, and I have no idea what has changed in that regard. So I simply asked what you thought it was. Dear me.

What's different is that he's no longer willing to play the scrappy, high-energy style. He floats.

I don't remember him ever being scrappy. In 08 and 09 he was a little guy who could make plays and do the litle things necessary. Now I simply think that he has been figured out due to teams knowing his tendencies a lot more compared to previous years, he is small, and he has had trouble adjusting back into the cramped size of NHL rinks (which also plays into his size and speed and his tendencies being easier to understand by the opposition). Due to this adversity he has just had a very frustrating year. Can he come back? No idea. But I really don't see it as a lack of attitude. In fact I think his problems are simply being put into more focus now that Detroit's depth isn't where it used to be and he is being relied on more to make things happen out there.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I don't believe that, unless you mean in the first half of the season he was a bigger ***** than Filppula and refused to compete. After he was benched in the playoffs he finally started showing some heart. Too little, too late, though.

I don't either.

Honestly I think Hudler was working his ass off out there. Trying to play physical. Ultimately I think he's just too damn small and slow. Maybe he'd be okay if it were one of the two, but not both. I held out hope he'd be this crafty little sniper, but he hasn't done enough to justify his salary. Maybe he will be somewhere, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen on the Wings.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I don't either.

Honestly I think Hudler was working his ass off out there. Trying to play physical. Ultimately I think he's just too damn small and slow. Maybe he'd be okay if it were one of the two, but not both. I held out hope he'd be this crafty little sniper, but he hasn't done enough to justify his salary. Maybe he will be somewhere, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen on the Wings.

I think if we traded him to a team that he could get constant top 6 foward minutes, maybe he'd be able to produce. Leino type situation. Maybe he'll work out to be a decent forward in a different system, but I don't see it working out here.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I think if we traded him to a team that he could get constant top 6 foward minutes, maybe he'd be able to produce. Leino type situation. Maybe he'll work out to be a decent forward in a different system, but I don't see it working out here.

I honestly think he could be a 70+ point player...just not on the Wings. Kind of like Leino and kind of how Kopecky and what's his name....that defenseman who was a flash in the pan....Quincey! Except Hudler actually has a good skill set, it just doesn't translate here well.

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

I don't either.

Honestly I think Hudler was working his ass off out there. Trying to play physical. Ultimately I think he's just too damn small and slow. Maybe he'd be okay if it were one of the two, but not both. I held out hope he'd be this crafty little sniper, but he hasn't done enough to justify his salary. Maybe he will be somewhere, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen on the Wings.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I honestly think he could be a 70+ point player...just not on the Wings. Kind of like Leino and kind of how Kopecky and what's his name....that defenseman who was a flash in the pan....Quincey! Except Hudler actually has a good skill set, it just doesn't translate here well.

Some guys just don't work well in our system. Plain and simple. Some guys flourish in our system, and the second they get traded/leave via free agency, their careers go downhill. (See: Martin Lapointe, Mathieu Dandenault, Sergei Fedorov). Others just don't pan out well here.

[Guest Crymson]

I honestly think he could be a 70+ point player...just not on the Wings. Kind of like Leino and kind of how Kopecky and what's his name....that defenseman who was a flash in the pan....Quincey! Except Hudler actually has a good skill set, it just doesn't translate here well.

Though we're quick to forget it here, Quincey went downhill after that one good season. He wasn't so good in his second season with L.A., and he was absolutely hated by Avalanche fans this season.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Though we're quick to forget it here, Quincey went downhill after that one good season. He wasn't so good in his second season with L.A., and he was absolutely hated by Avalanche fans this season.

Downhill very very fast in his second season with the Avs.