Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

Hudler's Future


  • Please log in to reply
359 replies to this topic

#261 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 01 June 2011 - 06:53 AM

This pretty much sums up how I feel when eva unit zero is around a Hudler discussion.






Or this as well, just take your pick.



#262 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,004 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 02 June 2011 - 01:47 PM

I honestly think you all have blinders on when you watch Hudler. I'm not going to sit here and praise him as though he's the greatest player on the planet but sometimes I think I'm not watching the same game as the rest of you. I can see his faults and when he has s***ty games (which he certainly did this year) but the absolute refusal of the vast majority of posters on this site to give absolutely any credit where credit is due to Hudler is just flat out absurd. I just don't understand how most posters on this site can honestly feel as though they're watching things objectively.



I don't think Hudler is a bad player, but he's not worth his contract at his current production level and in order to elevate his point production you'd have to put him on one of the top two lines, but he doesn't have the skill set to match up well or defend against other teams' top six forwards. He can't play higher than the third line because he can't defend, so he's stuck no higher than the third. Unless he starts producing from there then he isn't worth the money he's paid and needs to go.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#263 brett

brett

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,023 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 02 June 2011 - 08:27 PM

trade huds to NYR for dubinsky. grit hard worker and scorer. WIN

Edited by brett, 02 June 2011 - 08:28 PM.


#264 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:17 PM

trade huds to NYR for dubinsky. grit hard worker and scorer. WIN


Something tells me Hudler's trade value isn't quite that good. An incredibly one-dimensional player who just had a poor year and is paid $3m will not fetch returns on the trade market. If he's traded, it won't be for any return; it'll be to free up the cap space he currently occupies.

#265 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

Bring Back The Bruise Bros

    RIP Probie

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,696 posts

Posted 02 June 2011 - 11:16 PM

trade huds to NYR for dubinsky. grit hard worker and scorer. WIN

I love Dubinsky. We've got to find a way to get him here. He's got a ton of potential. Hudler won't be enough to get him here, and the Rangers would be silly to trade him, anyway. He's a real smart player, both offensively and defensively.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 02 June 2011 - 11:16 PM.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#266 Datsyerberger

Datsyerberger

    "Dat's yer burger, Hank."

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,097 posts
  • Location:Pueblo, CO

Posted 02 June 2011 - 11:58 PM

I love Dubinsky. We've got to find a way to get him here. He's got a ton of potential. Hudler won't be enough to get him here, and the Rangers would be silly to trade him, anyway. He's a real smart player, both offensively and defensively.


He won't get here. The Rangers want to keep him. He's not UFA. That's pretty much the end of that.
If some bored artist wants to make me a signature, feel free to cut loose and do so.

Of course, I could get off my lame rear and do something.

#267 RockyMountainWingGal

RockyMountainWingGal

    RockyMountainWingGal

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,810 posts
  • Location:Denver, Colorado

Posted 03 June 2011 - 04:35 PM

Wow. This thread is still chugging along. Eva, I think you've broken a record for player defense threads. I can't figure your unwaivering loyalty to Huds but it is impressive. He should make you his agent.

I personally think his days are numbered as a red wing. If Holland can find a way to trade, waive, release him before his contract is up, he will.
New season, New start! May the force be with the Wings this time!

#268 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 04 June 2011 - 01:54 AM

Wow. This thread is still chugging along. Eva, I think you've broken a record for player defense threads. I can't figure your unwaivering loyalty to Huds but it is impressive. He should make you his agent.

I personally think his days are numbered as a red wing. If Holland can find a way to trade, waive, release him before his contract is up, he will.


I disagree. If Holland wanted to get rid of Hudler, he'd have been gone at the deadline because he was as hot at that point as any Wing was all season. Babcock wasn't using Hudler in a top-six role, so trading Hudler for a top-pairing shut-down defenseman and simply replacing Hudler internally in the bottom six with a grittier, more defensive forward like Miller or Draper would have happened. Holland, and perhaps even Babcock, think later December through the end of February is what they can expect from Hudler going forward. Not what they saw at the start of the year.
"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#269 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 04 June 2011 - 02:18 AM

I disagree. If Holland wanted to get rid of Hudler, he'd have been gone at the deadline because he was as hot at that point as any Wing was all season. Babcock wasn't using Hudler in a top-six role, so trading Hudler for a top-pairing shut-down defenseman and simply replacing Hudler internally in the bottom six with a grittier, more defensive forward like Miller or Draper would have happened. Holland, and perhaps even Babcock, think later December through the end of February is what they can expect from Hudler going forward. Not what they saw at the start of the year.


I think it's more accurate to say that they hoped Hudler's performance around the time of the trade deadline would continue. I imagine they thought he'd finally found his groove again. Then he cooled down, was quiet down the stretch, and was very mediocre in the playoffs.

But hey, feel free to twist it around in your head as much as you'd like.

#270 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 04 June 2011 - 03:11 AM

I think it's more accurate to say that they hoped Hudler's performance around the time of the trade deadline would continue. I imagine they thought he'd finally found his groove again. Then he cooled down, was quiet down the stretch, and was very mediocre in the playoffs.

But hey, feel free to twist it around in your head as much as you'd like.


Babcock suddenly dumping Hudler, who had the team's hottest scorer in February, to the fourth line for the last couple weeks because Franzen couldn't do anything offensively is not a matter of Hudler playing poorly. It's a matter of "f***, we 'need' Franzen to be in playoff mode." And it never happened. Hudler outplayed Franzen even after he was taken off of Datsyuk's wing and Franzen was put back there. And in the playoffs. Franzen was terrible for the last few months of the season including playoffs.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#271 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 04 June 2011 - 01:30 PM

Babcock suddenly dumping Hudler, who had the team's hottest scorer in February, to the fourth line for the last couple weeks because Franzen couldn't do anything offensively is not a matter of Hudler playing poorly. It's a matter of "f***, we 'need' Franzen to be in playoff mode." And it never happened. Hudler outplayed Franzen even after he was taken off of Datsyuk's wing and Franzen was put back there. And in the playoffs. Franzen was terrible for the last few months of the season including playoffs.

Cool story, but not actually what happened.

Fact is, the Wings lost a couple games, with Huds-Pav-Cleary not scoring (and a combined -4 against SJ) so the lines got juggled, just like every other 'hot' line we've had got broken up. The next game Hudler played with Flip and Franzen. For pretty much the rest of the season a lot of people were juggled around. Hudler spent plenty of time with Flip, Hank, Cleary and plenty of time with lesser players.

There's no conspiracy by the man to keep Hudler down. The Wings' goal is to win, not maximize Hudler's scoring stats. Hudler doesn't get the minutes some other players get because he doesn't deserve them as much. We have a lot of good players. A lot deserve more minutes and/or a better role than they get. But there's only so many minutes and so many spots. Hudler was 8th in ESTOI, just barely behind Homer. The 6 guys significantly above him all bring much more to the team, with the possible exception of Bert. Hudler isn't a victim.

#272 Konnan511

Konnan511

    #FreePulkkinen

  • HoF Booster
  • 10,338 posts
  • Location:Traverse City, Mi

Posted 04 June 2011 - 02:01 PM

I think it's more accurate to say that they hoped Hudler's performance around the time of the trade deadline would continue. I imagine they thought he'd finally found his groove again. Then he cooled down, was quiet down the stretch, and was very mediocre in the playoffs.

But hey, feel free to twist it around in your head as much as you'd like.


Babcock suddenly dumping Hudler, who had the team's hottest scorer in February, to the fourth line for the last couple weeks because Franzen couldn't do anything offensively is not a matter of Hudler playing poorly. It's a matter of "f***, we 'need' Franzen to be in playoff mode." And it never happened. Hudler outplayed Franzen even after he was taken off of Datsyuk's wing and Franzen was put back there. And in the playoffs. Franzen was terrible for the last few months of the season including playoffs.

Cool story, but not actually what happened.

Fact is, the Wings lost a couple games, with Huds-Pav-Cleary not scoring (and a combined -4 against SJ) so the lines got juggled, just like every other 'hot' line we've had got broken up. The next game Hudler played with Flip and Franzen. For pretty much the rest of the season a lot of people were juggled around. Hudler spent plenty of time with Flip, Hank, Cleary and plenty of time with lesser players.

There's no conspiracy by the man to keep Hudler down. The Wings' goal is to win, not maximize Hudler's scoring stats. Hudler doesn't get the minutes some other players get because he doesn't deserve them as much. We have a lot of good players. A lot deserve more minutes and/or a better role than they get. But there's only so many minutes and so many spots. Hudler was 8th in ESTOI, just barely behind Homer. The 6 guys significantly above him all bring much more to the team, with the possible exception of Bert. Hudler isn't a victim.

Classic Eva. I lol'd pretty hard at this sequence, and a lot at the bolded parts.
The Best Of BC
HankthaTank
- Squirrels, they hate to be thrown. / Why is the magical unicorn named Brian... Jedi - I just downloaded the "kids" book, "Go the F--k to Sleep" as narrated by Samuel L. Jackson on my kindle. I am now ready to be a daddy. / *Checks Router* No, I'm positive I didn't hit the "Wings Defense Sucks" button. Electrophile - I'm just glad the Wings were able to win despite the Curse of Brian. ACallToArms - I think Trey needs to put something about payroll tax and deferred income in his sig... Edicius - I'd rather [have] a soundbite of me saying "I like (man sausage)" rather than "I like Crosby".

#273 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 05 June 2011 - 12:31 AM

Cool story, but not actually what happened.

Fact is, the Wings lost a couple games, with Huds-Pav-Cleary not scoring (and a combined -4 against SJ) so the lines got juggled, just like every other 'hot' line we've had got broken up. The next game Hudler played with Flip and Franzen. For pretty much the rest of the season a lot of people were juggled around. Hudler spent plenty of time with Flip, Hank, Cleary and plenty of time with lesser players.

There's no conspiracy by the man to keep Hudler down. The Wings' goal is to win, not maximize Hudler's scoring stats. Hudler doesn't get the minutes some other players get because he doesn't deserve them as much. We have a lot of good players. A lot deserve more minutes and/or a better role than they get. But there's only so many minutes and so many spots. Hudler was 8th in ESTOI, just barely behind Homer. The 6 guys significantly above him all bring much more to the team, with the possible exception of Bert. Hudler isn't a victim.


Franzen returned to the lineup against Anaheim. That game and the next game (the SJ game you mention) the HDC line played together sporadically as well as Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom seeing a good amount of ice. Marleau's goal that made it 3-1 was scored with the Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom line out.

And the thing is... you say "Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank." No he didn't. Filppula was a common linemate, Franzen and Cleary occassionally, and Abdelkader, Miller, and Eaves all too often. I have never said Hudler is a victim. But I will again use Franzen as an example. People use the fact that Franzen whips out amazing playoff performances to justify his negatives. What about Hudler this season? He put up a season that was, on the whole, second-line worthy. He did it by pulling out an amazing second half that LGW simply refuses to acknowledge. So what do you say? Is the ability to do something enough, even if you don't do it? The Franzen example says yes. The Hudler example says no. Pick one and make a decision.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#274 brett

brett

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,023 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 05 June 2011 - 01:26 AM

He won't get here. The Rangers want to keep him. He's not UFA. That's pretty much the end of that.


Ill settle for prust then.

#275 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 05 June 2011 - 01:55 AM

Franzen returned to the lineup against Anaheim. That game and the next game (the SJ game you mention) the HDC line played together sporadically as well as Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom seeing a good amount of ice. Marleau's goal that made it 3-1 was scored with the Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom line out.

And the thing is... you say "Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank." No he didn't. Filppula was a common linemate, Franzen and Cleary occassionally, and Abdelkader, Miller, and Eaves all too often. I have never said Hudler is a victim. But I will again use Franzen as an example. People use the fact that Franzen whips out amazing playoff performances to justify his negatives. What about Hudler this season? He put up a season that was, on the whole, second-line worthy. He did it by pulling out an amazing second half that LGW simply refuses to acknowledge. So what do you say? Is the ability to do something enough, even if you don't do it? The Franzen example says yes. The Hudler example says no. Pick one and make a decision.

Datsyuk was out several games at the end of March, and Franzen missed a few as well. In that time, Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank.

You may not come out and say he's a victim, but your constant whining about his lack of ice time and the poor quality of his linemates says it for you. Even in this post you're whining about LGW not hating Franzen as much as Hudler.

Here's a fact for you. Franzen had a pretty crappy year, hardly any goals the last two months of the season. And he still outscored Hudler by 18 goals. He scored just as many points as Hudler from February on. And he's better in other areas. Add that to his previous playoff performances and you're damn right it justifies his negatives. He's a far better player than Hudler and far more deserving of premium ice time and linemates.

You blamed Hudler's first half on Modano. Now you're blaming Franzen for kicking Hudler out of the top 6. Every single thing you sayabout him is about some great disservice being done to him either in how he's treated on the ice or how he's perceived by fans. The funny thing is you actually believe that Hudler was 'amazing' the second half of the season and Franzen was 'terrible', when Hudler scored 2 more points.

Like I said previously, it's not about Hudler. Not everyone can play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The guys that played with them more than Hudler, deserved it more than Hudler.

#276 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:27 AM

Datsyuk was out several games at the end of March, and Franzen missed a few as well. In that time, Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank.

You may not come out and say he's a victim, but your constant whining about his lack of ice time and the poor quality of his linemates says it for you. Even in this post you're whining about LGW not hating Franzen as much as Hudler.

Here's a fact for you. Franzen had a pretty crappy year, hardly any goals the last two months of the season. And he still outscored Hudler by 18 goals. He scored just as many points as Hudler from February on. And he's better in other areas. Add that to his previous playoff performances and you're damn right it justifies his negatives. He's a far better player than Hudler and far more deserving of premium ice time and linemates.

You blamed Hudler's first half on Modano. Now you're blaming Franzen for kicking Hudler out of the top 6. Every single thing you sayabout him is about some great disservice being done to him either in how he's treated on the ice or how he's perceived by fans. The funny thing is you actually believe that Hudler was 'amazing' the second half of the season and Franzen was 'terrible', when Hudler scored 2 more points.

Like I said previously, it's not about Hudler. Not everyone can play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The guys that played with them more than Hudler, deserved it more than Hudler.


Well, if we divide it exactly in half it divides between January 7th and 8th. This places Hudler and Franzen with the following second-half stats:

Franzen 36 gp, 11g-12a-23pt
Hudler 37 gp, 7g-19a-26pt

So offensively, Hudler's second half was better. As for my comments about Franzen? In the last 32 games of the season, Franzen scored 2 goals. Hudler scored six in that time frame.

If I had the time to waste (maybe someone here does) we could go through and pick apart box scores to figure out which of Franzen's 55 points and Hudler's 37 were influenced by Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#277 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 05 June 2011 - 04:00 AM

Well, if we divide it exactly in half it divides between January 7th and 8th. This places Hudler and Franzen with the following second-half stats:

Franzen 36 gp, 11g-12a-23pt
Hudler 37 gp, 7g-19a-26pt

So offensively, Hudler's second half was better. As for my comments about Franzen? In the last 32 games of the season, Franzen scored 2 goals. Hudler scored six in that time frame.

If I had the time to waste (maybe someone here does) we could go through and pick apart box scores to figure out which of Franzen's 55 points and Hudler's 37 were influenced by Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

So... the difference between amazing and terrible is 3 points. Yeah. I guess I shouldn't have estimated the 2nd half as 'from January on'; cheated poor, poor, abused little Hudler out of one entire point to his advantage. That makes all the difference in the world. Completely invalidates my point that you're judging the two players by different standards. Clearly, a two point difference isn't enough to say one player was amazing and one player terrible. But three points. My God, such a monumental disparity. 6 goals to 2 in the last 32 games. Well, obviously Franzen should be shot and Hudler elevated to sainthood. I mean, come on. Hudler scoring at nearly a 16 goal pace. Such scorching numbers are a great reason to displace a better all-around player with a career goals/game nearly twice as high.

Oh, and in the last 33 games of the season, Franzen scored 7 goals to Hudler's 6. And in the first 49: 21-4

It's not a secret that Franzen gets more ice time, and more time with better linemates. What you don't seem to grasp is that Franzen deserves it more. So do Filppula, Cleary, Bert, and Homer. They are all either better players or at least better suited to the role needed, which isn't always just offense.

So what if poor little Hudler's stats suffer. The team is better for it.

#278 Mitchmac33

Mitchmac33

    Come on son!

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 427 posts

Posted 06 June 2011 - 08:21 PM

So... the difference between amazing and terrible is 3 points. Yeah. I guess I shouldn't have estimated the 2nd half as 'from January on'; cheated poor, poor, abused little Hudler out of one entire point to his advantage. That makes all the difference in the world. Completely invalidates my point that you're judging the two players by different standards. Clearly, a two point difference isn't enough to say one player was amazing and one player terrible. But three points. My God, such a monumental disparity. 6 goals to 2 in the last 32 games. Well, obviously Franzen should be shot and Hudler elevated to sainthood. I mean, come on. Hudler scoring at nearly a 16 goal pace. Such scorching numbers are a great reason to displace a better all-around player with a career goals/game nearly twice as high.

Oh, and in the last 33 games of the season, Franzen scored 7 goals to Hudler's 6. And in the first 49: 21-4

It's not a secret that Franzen gets more ice time, and more time with better linemates. What you don't seem to grasp is that Franzen deserves it more. So do Filppula, Cleary, Bert, and Homer. They are all either better players or at least better suited to the role needed, which isn't always just offense.

So what if poor little Hudler's stats suffer. The team is better for it.


It's funny that when someone presents something that has no way to dispute Eva just disappears.

#279 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 06 June 2011 - 10:52 PM

It's funny that when someone presents something that has no way to dispute Eva just disappears.


I disappeared? Over a response that only highlights my point? Franzen scored 11 goals in the second half. Five of them came in one game.

What does Johan Franzen do if he doesn't have an all-world center? Realistically? Franzen without a Datsyuk or Zetterberg scores what, about 20 goals on a full season? He certainly wouldn't get the "just being there" assists he got this season. You can forget 55 points. Do you really think Franzen would break 40 points playing third and fourth line all season? I don't think so.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#280 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:07 AM

I disappeared? Over a response that only highlights my point? Franzen scored 11 goals in the second half. Five of them came in one game.

What does Johan Franzen do if he doesn't have an all-world center? Realistically? Franzen without a Datsyuk or Zetterberg scores what, about 20 goals on a full season? He certainly wouldn't get the "just being there" assists he got this season. You can forget 55 points. Do you really think Franzen would break 40 points playing third and fourth line all season? I don't think so.

And Hudler scored 10 goals in the whole season, and never dominated any game.

What is your point? That Franzen is better? I can agree with that.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users