359 replies to this topic

[Mors]

Biggest hit of Hudler's career was against his own teammate. Holland needs to put an end to this charade already.

[Flipper51]

I like the look, except for the fact that as mentioned earlier, Holmstrom breaks the bottom six. Assuming we lose Draper, Modano, and Miller and gain Mursak and Emmerton, these are the lines I would roll.

Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary
Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Abdelkader/Filppula/Bertuzzi
Mursak/Helm/Eaves

The top six forwards in ice time would be those you mentioned, but you have to make the lines work also. Trying to shoehorn Homer into that bottom six wrecks it.

You can also, of course, run with:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom
Hudler/Filppula/Cleary
Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi
Mursak/Helm/Eaves

I know this is almost 100 hundred percent not gona happen, but wouldn't simply scratching Homer make this team a lot better, and make line combos so much easier? Yes we lose his net front presence on the PP, but i believe that Mule should get back to doing that (2008 style) and Cleary is also very good at it. As well if we can get a guy like Brooks Laich I believe that he is someone that can play that role (I could be wrong about that though).

[Firehawk]

A player like Homer is invaluable. More than 90% of teams don't possess a player willing to get beaten to death in front of the net for tips. Buffugaly Googaly shoulda been picked up. That would be a nice replacement.

I am not for getting rid of Homer, nor do I think it would be a good thing for this team.

My sister ran into Hudler 2 nights ago at some bar (don't remember where she said it was). She went up and said she thought the wings played well and was sorry they lost. He was very appreciative, she said.

I asked if she said "why don't you shoot thef****** puck?" She didn't ask that though LOL

[Crymson]

He played 11 games with Datsyuk and Cleary, and led the team in scoring during that period. His offense was on pace for 105 points.

In the first 30 games of the season, he was not very effective. But he also was playing with Modano, who at almost no point this season has been effective, and whose play style does not work with Hudler's play style. One works on rushing and a quick shot, the other works on setting up an offense and trying to find or create a hole in the defense.

Hudler scored 12 points in 17 games before he played with Datsyuk. This isn't "no points in all games not played alongside Pavel Datsyuk" but rather that he was already doing well and then started doing much better when placed with Datsyuk, proving the idea that he could excel on the first line.

You're ignoring the fact that he's one of the most one-dimensional players in the league, even more so than Holmstrom. Holmstrom can at least cycle the puck, protect it and go to work in the corners. He can also hit, and does. Hudler can pass and shoot, and that's all. If you didn't notice, he was belted off the puck repeatedly throughout the course of the year, and it became an epidemic against the Sharks. Further, his speed is really only a tad better than Holmstrom's, and whereas Holmstrom is mediocre on defense, Hudler is absolutely horrible.

Hudler is a liability when he's playing more than a limited amount of minutes.

[Buppy]

A lot of people really seem to under-appreciate Homer's contributions.

He's still one of our best forwards working the puck in the corners. His vision, passing, and hockey sense are much better than he gets credit for. He's a great compliment to skill players like Pav, Hank, Flip, Hudler, and Mule.

With the roster we have, it's tough to find real good combinations, but it's not because of Homer. At least not to any greater extent than it is Hudler, Flip, Cleary, or Bert (and Modano this year). Flip and Cleary will fit in the bottom 6, but at the expense of their offense, and that also leaves a very slow and defensively weak top 6. Homer doesn't really work in the bottom 6 at all. Bert is mostly wasted too, though he could maybe bring some toughness. Hudler doesn't work very well, though he could add some scoring threat like he did with Helm and Maltby in 08.

You can replace any one of those guys with someone else and get line combinations that look better. We have 5 guys who need to be in the top 6 (at least for offense, and/or to earn their salary), but only 3 open spots.

We can get a 9th (like we tried to do with Modano, and Willy and Leino the year before) and try to build 3 lines. We can suffer some guys being in 'bad' spots, and juggle around depending on injuries and who's hot (like we did this year). We can try to move some guys for someone that 'fits' better, but likely at the cost of depth and flexibility.

You can't build a perfect roster that's guaranteed a Cup. Every option has its pros and cons.

[eva unit zero]

A lot of people really seem to under-appreciate Homer's contributions.

He's still one of our best forwards working the puck in the corners. His vision, passing, and hockey sense are much better than he gets credit for. He's a great compliment to skill players like Pav, Hank, Flip, Hudler, and Mule.

With the roster we have, it's tough to find real good combinations, but it's not because of Homer. At least not to any greater extent than it is Hudler, Flip, Cleary, or Bert (and Modano this year). Flip and Cleary will fit in the bottom 6, but at the expense of their offense, and that also leaves a very slow and defensively weak top 6. Homer doesn't really work in the bottom 6 at all. Bert is mostly wasted too, though he could maybe bring some toughness. Hudler doesn't work very well, though he could add some scoring threat like he did with Helm and Maltby in 08.

You can replace any one of those guys with someone else and get line combinations that look better. We have 5 guys who need to be in the top 6 (at least for offense, and/or to earn their salary), but only 3 open spots.

We can get a 9th (like we tried to do with Modano, and Willy and Leino the year before) and try to build 3 lines. We can suffer some guys being in 'bad' spots, and juggle around depending on injuries and who's hot (like we did this year). We can try to move some guys for someone that 'fits' better, but likely at the cost of depth and flexibility.

You can't build a perfect roster that's guaranteed a Cup. Every option has its pros and cons.

It's like I keep saying. Homer is not a top-six forward, but he has to be on a scoring line because otherwise he is useless. So we put him in a spot where he can succeed and help his line out. Homer has the largest disparity between his actual ability and his effectiveness that I have ever seen from a hockey player. This is mainly because of the chemistry he and Dats have developed; and that is why he has to be on Dats' line next season.
The fourth line has to be Mursak/Helm/Eaves. It keeps the same attitude as Draper/Helm/Eaves and has the speed and grit. I'd rather have Abby on the fourth line, but that line combo is too good a combination to split. Maybe move up Helm, stick in Emmerton on the bottom line. But that doesn't work so well because while Emmerton can play some D, he's not really gritty.

So put it together like this:

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Cleary/Zetterberg/Hudler
Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Emmerton

That puts Homer on a line that has been proven to work, the second and third line work, and the fourth line worked great with Draper so it should work as well with Mursak. Emmerton is a good enough all-around player that he can step in pretty much anywhere, although I might shift Abby down to the fourth line if Helm went out.

[cusimano_brothers]

His future is behind him; but, he still has those swell memories, as well as longings of what might have been.

[Heroes of Hockeytown]

Homer is sometimes an anchor at even strength, but he's still capable of producing there. Do note the Wings' game-winners in Games 5 and 6 against the Sharks. He was more effective than any of the other Wings' forwards not named Zetterberg and Datsyuk in that series.

[Flipper51]

It's like I keep saying. Homer is not a top-six forward, but he has to be on a scoring line because otherwise he is useless. So we put him in a spot where he can succeed and help his line out. Homer has the largest disparity between his actual ability and his effectiveness that I have ever seen from a hockey player. This is mainly because of the chemistry he and Dats have developed; and that is why he has to be on Dats' line next season.
The fourth line has to be Mursak/Helm/Eaves. It keeps the same attitude as Draper/Helm/Eaves and has the speed and grit. I'd rather have Abby on the fourth line, but that line combo is too good a combination to split. Maybe move up Helm, stick in Emmerton on the bottom line. But that doesn't work so well because while Emmerton can play some D, he's not really gritty.

So put it together like this:

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Cleary/Zetterberg/Hudler
Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Emmerton

That puts Homer on a line that has been proven to work, the second and third line work, and the fourth line worked great with Draper so it should work as well with Mursak. Emmerton is a good enough all-around player that he can step in pretty much anywhere, although I might shift Abby down to the fourth line if Helm went out.

Very good forward lines if only we could replace that third line center spot with a guy like Brooks Laich

[eva unit zero]

Very good forward lines if only we could replace that third line center spot with a guy like Brooks Laich

Abdelkader is not actually far behind Laich in offensive ability. They scored almost the same goals-per-minute rate at even strength, and Laich had a higher assist rate largely due to playing on the second line of an offensively powerful team while Abdelkader was primarily a fourth-liner. Abby is also more physical than Laich, and three years younger. Abdelkader has displayed chemistry with Franzen and Bertuzzi, showing that it can be a good "power" line if needed. So I don't think adding Laich is a necessary move.

[GoWings1905]

Hudler and Ericsson for Bogo? I love Huds and I'd bite for that but isn't Ericsson a free agent now? Not to highjack the thread but he breeds to be gone one way or another.

I don't know where the original poster came up with that proposed Bogosian deal, but there is no chance in hell Atlanta would do that.

I would love to see Bogosian acquired over the summer, but it would take Filppula, a pick and prospect to even get the Thrashers interested. Hudler and Ericsson would get Holland laughed at.

Edited by GoWings1905, 15 May 2011 - 10:19 PM.

[eva unit zero]

I don't know where the original poster came up with that proposed Bogosian deal, but there is no chance in hell Atlanta would do that.

I would love to see Bogosian acquired over the summer, but it would take Filppula, a pick and prospect to even get the Thrashers interested. Hudler and Ericsson would get Holland laughed at.

I wouldn't mind having Bogosian, but he is probably the most overrated player on this board. He's already had a couple of serious injuries and he has not really shown himself to be anything special. He's got some decent offensive skills and can play physical but is not that good on the back end. You could get Mike Green ($5.25m) or go for Bogo (RFA, coming off $3.75m EL contract) for probably the same or similar assets. Green is about five years older than Bogosian. They play basically similar styles.

[RockyMountainWingGal]

Hudler is NOT a top 6 forward folks. Replay game 7 if you have any doubt about that. The guy was a healthy scratch for half of the playoff games this year (and many of the regular season games) - for a good reason. I think I'm going with Babs on this one.....

[eva unit zero]

Hudler is NOT a top 6 forward folks. Replay game 7 if you have any doubt about that. The guy was a healthy scratch for half of the playoff games this year (and many of the regular season games) - for a good reason. I think I'm going with Babs on this one.....

He was a healthy scratch for one playoff game. One.

He was scratched for a few games early in the season, and missed a few near the end with the flu.

If Hudler was given the same kind of leeway Franzen gets on poor performance, he would never have been scratched.

[RockyMountainWingGal]

He was a healthy scratch for one playoff game. One.

He was scratched for a few games early in the season, and missed a few near the end with the flu.

If Hudler was given the same kind of leeway Franzen gets on poor performance, he would never have been scratched.

Heh my bad - thought he was scratched for 3 PO games - guess I'm not noticing him out there.

I'll give you that Franzen gets a healthy dose of leeway, but when on him game, Mule is a totally different level of player than Hudler can ever be.

Nothing personal against the guy, but he has been with the Wings organization long enough to figure he is never going to be a top 1-2 line guy. Personally, I'd rather experiment with someone else, and let him get a fresh shot at it somewhere else....

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Heh my bad - thought he was scratched for 3 PO games - guess I'm not noticing him out there.

I'll give you that Franzen gets a healthy dose of leeway, but when on him game, Mule is a totally different level of player than Hudler can ever be.

Nothing personal against the guy, but he has been with the Wings organization long enough to figure he is never going to be a top 1-2 line guy. Personally, I'd rather experiment with someone else, and let him get a fresh shot at it somewhere else....

This is where Holland's loyalty hurts the team, in my opinion. He's had plenty of chances to prove himself since he came back, and I don't believe he showed he can play at the level he used to on a regular basis. Hopefully Holland recognizes this and we can experiment with someone else.

[eva unit zero]

Heh my bad - thought he was scratched for 3 PO games - guess I'm not noticing him out there.

I'll give you that Franzen gets a healthy dose of leeway, but when on him game, Mule is a totally different level of player than Hudler can ever be.

Nothing personal against the guy, but he has been with the Wings organization long enough to figure he is never going to be a top 1-2 line guy. Personally, I'd rather experiment with someone else, and let him get a fresh shot at it somewhere else....

Hudler's performance with Datsyuk over an eleven-game stretch this season far exceeded anything Franzen has been able to display outside of the occasional game. Think about it for a second; Franzen played this season mostly with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and when he was with Filppula, Flip was playing the best hockey of his career (whether Mule was on the ice or not) and yet Franzen posted worse numbers than Hudler did two seasons ago playing mostly third line time with far less offensively skilled players. Take away Franzen's five-goal game, and it's an even larger disparity. Once Hudler broke his slump, he was scoring points at a much higher rate than Franzen ever has, even before he linked up with Datsyuk. Different type of player maybe. But Hudler, not Franzen, is the one with the higher offensive peak. And if Babs puts him on Dats' or Z's line this season full-time, you'll see that.

This is where Holland's loyalty hurts the team, in my opinion. He's had plenty of chances to prove himself since he came back, and I don't believe he showed he can play at the level he used to on a regular basis. Hopefully Holland recognizes this and we can experiment with someone else.

Hudler had plenty of chances? To start the year, Hudler was put with the worst possible match of anyone capable of playing center in the organization. Completely clashing play styles led to both players having poor starts, in addition to Hudler having more trouble than expected re-acclimating to NHL speed while Modano either couldn't or wouldn't play the Wings' system. Hudler eventually broke his slump, in part to line shuffling and more ice time available due to injuries, as well as being placed with players he had known chemistry with such as Filppula and Helm. Once that happened, he was on pace for the 70 points Babcock expected, and while the Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary line was together he was on pace for over 100. So I'm not sure exactly what you're expecting, but after that first thirty games he was one of the team's top four forwards and playing at least as well as he did in 08-09.

[Crymson]

Hudler's performance with Datsyuk over an eleven-game stretch this season far exceeded anything Franzen has been able to display outside of the occasional game.

This is a totally nonsensical statement. First, do you remember when Franzen scored 20 goals in the last six weeks of the '08 season? Yeah, Hudler hasn't done anything like that. And yeah, you're talking here about 11 games. I have absolutely no doubt that you'd call that insufficient data if you were talking about anyone besides Hudler.

Also, I'll repeat what I said before: Hudler is utterly one-dimensional, more so even than Homer.

[Casey]

So Hudler can produce, as long as he's paired with arguably the best playmaker in the league.

Stick anyone on Datsyuk's wing and they'll produce. I'm not going to give Hudler a first-line spot since that may be the only place he can produce.

[eva unit zero]

So Hudler can produce, as long as he's paired with arguably the best playmaker in the league.

Stick anyone on Datsyuk's wing and they'll produce. I'm not going to give Hudler a first-line spot since that may be the only place he can produce.

He produced at a rate that would produce 30 goals and 75 assists in 82 games. Franzen has only once performed that well offensively; the 09-10 playoffs. Who was he playing with? He also produced points at a higher rate than Datsyuk did while they were together.

Deal with it. When Hudler is placed in a top-six role, he excels. This has been the case time and time again. How well would the Sedin twins do on a checking line? Not well? How about Crosby? Savard? Kovalchuk? Kane? Thornton? None of these guys would do well on a checking line with checking line wingers/center. They might score some points, but not at their current level. Why do you expect Hudler to do so well? People around here say I think he's some kind of otherwordly talent; yet I'm not the one who expects such ridiculousness from him. I fully realize that playing in a checking role will limit your offense, unlike many here.