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ShakeyWalton

Who has better future: Blues or Wings?

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In case some people don't recognize me, I'm a Blues fan that has spent some time on your forum because I like to talk hockey with knowledgeable fans. I also would like to say that your team deserves a ton of credit for that spirited battle in the Sharks series. I know it sucks to lose (look what team I follow), but you should take consolation that the Sharks are run-down and about to be taken out permanently.

Back to the topic at hand. Every year Blues fans say that the Wings dominance is coming to an end because they're getting older, Lidstrom will soon be finished, lack of goaltending, etc, but it never happens. I have to think that my team is going to have a big year, and if Berglund, Oshie, Petro, Shattenkirk, and Halak take the next step, look out. We also have a Russian coming in named Tarasenko that's been hyped like no future Blue I've ever seen before. Our future truly is as bright as ever.

On the down side, Oshie has off-ice issues, Perron may not be back, and I'm not sold on Halak personally. What I would like to know is how you fans feel about your current personnel and the farm system. Will the NHL continue to see Detroit dominate, or are they running out of gas?

Just curious to hear what you guys have to say and maybe how you feel about the Blues and their future.

YMHC likes this

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Blues have ownership issues. Prime #1 right there is why they do not currently have a brighter future than the Wings. The Ilitches are rocksteady. Checketts and Co. want out of St Louis. Actually, there is where Hulsizer and Reinsdorf should be at.

Blues have sold out every game at the 19,150 seat Scottrade Center, despite missing the playoffs this year. Definite fan support there.

Steal of the year on offloading Erik Johnson and Jay McClement for Shattenkirk and Stewart. If I had $150 million, i'd buy the blues. Certainly have a good future ahead of them now. Better than the Wings? Not at all.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/teams/STL?year=2011

Almost 15 Million in Cap Room this year and average team age of 25-26. Until they get a big time foundation who is willing to use up that 15 mil smartly, the Blues Go Nowhere.

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Just curious to hear what you guys have to say and maybe how you feel about the Blues and their future.

I'm not adding anything based on fact, but this is already the toughest division in the NHL. A few years back, the Blues made the playoffs 25 years in a row, and I'd like to ask to see something before I give them the respect of the next 'up and coming team.'

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I'm not a Nostradamus, but I think Hiei wrote some good points.

For the last few years Blues have been in a "bubble". They haven't made the playoffs, but they also haven't sucked enough to get the highest draft picks á la Penguins, Blackhawks and Capitals. If and when Blues rise to be a contender again they can be proud of doing it without getting Crosbys, Ovechkins and Kanes for free.

Rick D likes this

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meh at this point I won't be sold on the Blues having a bright future until they actually do something

i've been hearing about the Blues up and coming team for years and they haven't even been making the playoffs

Edited by ricky0034

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I really like the Blues players and Davidson in the front office. It does start at the top though, and if it is unstable, that could end up posing a problem with stability in direction with the team. That said, I'm pretty sure that St. Louis has the best young team in the league that's full of depth, variety of skill sets, and potential. The Stewart trade was golden and even if Johnson becomes a #1 guy, the Blues will still have gotten fair value.

Do they have a better future than the Wings? I think that answer would start at the top in Ilitch. As long as he's alive he's shown that he's willing to spend to the cap every year and allow the front office to ice the team they deam best. That kind of confidance, trust, and financial support is part of why we stay at the top of the heap. In terms of pure, up-and-coming talent, the Blues do look to have the better future. That said, we would still have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall for ten more years, the kind of champion veteran talent the Blues can't provide. Having those players to bring along our wealthy farm system is invaluable and key to our success. The Blues and Wings have very different organizational dynamics but in theory, should both have very bright futures.

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I'd say their future is the brightest I've ever seen it with their current GM's abilities. I mean he pretty much roofied and raped the colorado gm earlier this year...and the org. is obviously good at drafting outside the top 10 of the first rd...I mean look at Oshie and Tarasenko. Speaking of him, I wonder what it would take for the wings to get him...he's the ******* ****.

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For what its worth, in my pre season rankings, I had St. Louis right behind Detroit in the division sitting at 4th in the west. I actually LOVE what is going on in St. Louis. I think it was an accident that they didn't make the playoffs this year.

I feel that the position where St. Louis is right now, they are prone to lapses because they are more of a newly functioning team. But soon its all going to click, and when it does (sooner rather than later) St. Louis will be quite a formidable opponent. So, I think the pieces are all in the right place - and last year was more of a blooper. They took a step back from the year before and that is typical of teams right on the cusp of being legit. In my opinion - they need to add 1 marquee forward to the mix, but I have no idea of your available cap space.

I feel that I do a pretty good job of evaluating teams. Last year I predicted the stanely cup finals in my bracket (Chi VS #8 seed Philly) and this year my bracket had the first 8 matchups perfect along with a TB VS Boston conference final with TB losing in the SC finals.

No doubt in my mind St. Louis is better than Chicago next year. The wild card is Nashville. Nashville has always been an enigma to me and I can't seem to figure them out (I had them upsetting Van). My head tells me St. Louis will be 2nd in the central next year.

I would like to say this as well - I think there is a very REAL possibility that Detroit has a dissapointing season next year. Paired with the immense amount of FA we have the following season and an almost certainty that Lids will be gone in the next 2 years - Detroit will be a hugely different team in the next 2 years. We will be forced to make some major roster decisions (something we do NOT do very often) and we will have a lot of salary cap room to delegate. That's scary because no one knows if the right options will even be available for us to make the right moves we want to make - assuming we even KNOW what the right moves are!

Point being, I would not be suprised one bit if St. Louis was 1st in the central in the next 1 - 3 years.

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Agreed with a lot of other points. The Blues have a good up and coming team, but they aren't quite there yet. It starts with their management. I did like the move to get Stewart, IMO the Blues cleaned up in that trade.

As far as comparing them with the Wings, its just hardly relevant. The teams are so different and have completely different needs going forward. Literally for the past decade, everyone has said the Wings are old and will soon be done, and it has never happened. In 1 or 2 seasons when we have a huge defensive overhaul, the Wings will likely be at their most vulnerable, but I have a lot of trust in our management and leadership.

While the Wings have to deal with a much more subtle transition, the Blues are attempting to take that next giant step, which can be very difficult.

Certainly the Blues have more work ahead of them than the Wings do in terms of being able to ice a playoff-ready team, but I don't the Blues are too far off.

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I disagree with anyone thinking St. Louis is finishing 2nd in our division next season. Only way that happens if us (Detroit)somehow stink it up all year long. Chicago and Nashville will no doubt be just as good as this year if not better.

Back to the topic at hand. Both clubs have bright futures. Seeing the Blues makes the playoffs 2 years ago was nice but this year was sort of a mis-step. Like mentioned earlier I think it comes down to an ownership issue where Detroit owns...

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The Blues have a solid young team, but they're still missing a couple pieces. With the Johnson trade, they'll need a couple new D prospects - guys who could either play opposite Pietrangelo or fill the #3 role. The results of the biggest trade of 2010/2011 will play out over the next 2-3 years, but St. Louis has the edge for now.

The fact that Chicago tanked long enough to draft a winning team isn't going to help the Blues in their push to regain their contender status. And Nashville is going to be around for some time as long as Rinne sticks around and Trotz has them playing the lock.

The Wings maintain the edge for now because of depth and experience. The prospects still in our pipeline show no indication that the Wings have a shortage of younger guys with potential. The Central is a very tough division with Chicago having a pretty good team again, and Columbus becoming competitive enough to steal games and be pesky. IMO, the Blues still have some important decisions to make in the next few years before they will contend again.

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See, I take the side of the argument that I don't think Chicago is worth a damn. They barely squeaked into the playoffs this year (don't care about them almost coming back in their series) and I don't see them in the playoffs next year.

I think a lot of what carried them in the regular season was the pride they had that everyone was expecting to see them bomb from the previous season. Which in reality - they clearly did.

Next season, they won't be considered the defending stanley cup champions so they don't have that to play for anymore. I think they'll finish last in the central. 10 wins ahead of edmonton.

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When the St. Louis Blues consistently make the playoffs, that will be a step toward improvement. Then we can talk about winning the cup. Until then, it's another team that has a lot of higher valued prospects and no winning strategy formulated. I don't see what's to be impressed by with that.

Edited by Shoreline

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Blues took a great step in the right direction this year, that's for sure. Their drafting has been terrible, though. 5 picks in the top 45 in 2007, and they botched all of theme except Perron. They got a nice pick in Rundblad two drafts ago. Their last draft, though was probably the best they've had since 2003. Schwartz, Tarasenko look real nice. Gardiner might project to a decent player if he matures as a player over the next couple years in college. Beach has a chance of being an effective PF if he gains some muscle. The wildcard is Wannstrom, if he develops like he could, he could be a star, but he flopped this past season in his stint in the SEL. Next season will give us a great indication if he is going to step up, or step down.

As for the WIngs. They have Sheahan, Smith, Pulkkinen, Aubry, Callahan, Jarnkrok, Mursak, and the list goes on for players that are destined for the NHL.

Edit: Just realized Rundblad was traded for a mid first round pick, which turned into Teresanko. I know the Blues are D heavy, but that trade was easily won by the Sens.

Edited by Konnan511

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Blues took a great step in the right direction this year, that's for sure. Their drafting has been terrible, though. 5 picks in the top 45 in 2007, and they botched all of theme except Perron. They got a nice pick in Rundblad two drafts ago. Their last draft, though was probably the best they've had since 2003. Schwartz, Tarasenko look real nice. Gardiner might project to a decent player if he matures as a player over the next couple years in college. Beach has a chance of being an effective PF if he gains some muscle. The wildcard is Wannstrom, if he develops like he could, he could be a star, but he flopped this past season in his stint in the SEL. Next season will give us a great indication if he is going to step up, or step down.

As for the WIngs. They have Sheahan, Smith, Pulkkinen, Aubry, Callahan, Jarnkrok, Mursak, and the list goes on for players that are destined for the NHL.

Edit: Just realized Rundblad was traded for a mid first round pick, which turned into Teresanko. I know the Blues are D heavy, but that trade was easily won by the Sens.

First of all, I wanted to thank everyone for their time in this thread. It gets old seeing all the biased answers on Blues boards I frequent. For example, Tarasenko is the most over-hyped player I can remember in my 20 years of following the team. The guy is being seen as a savior before he has even played a game in North America.

Konnan, I have to take exception to your comment about botching the 2007 draft, Perron excluded. Taking Lars Eller 13th enabled us to acquire a starting goaltender via trade (Halak). Ian Cole was our 18th pick, and he is expected to be a very physical 3rd or 4th d-man in the Jackman mold. We took Simon Hjalmarsson 39th and he's a bust. Aaron Palushaj was the 44th selection and we flipped him for D'Agostini, who had a very good year last season (46 points in 81 games).

I don't care if the players we traded bust or not. We basically have Perron, Halak, D'Agostini, and Cole out of our top 5 picks from a draft 4 years ago. A 1st line player, starting goalie, 2nd/3rd line player, and big, physical defenseman. Not sure if much more can be asked from a draft, honestly.

I'm also curious how you declare Ottawa the winner of the Rundblad/Tarasenko swap before either has played a game?

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The Blues have more talent within their young system. However, the Wings have both a good team now and very solid talent in the system as well (not as much depth as the Blues, but definitely upper half of the league). Seeing as the Wings are both good now and look to be good in the future, I'm giving this to the Wings until the Blues actually do something instead of just have something.

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For the Blues to take that next step and start making the playoffs they need one of their young guys to step up and become the kind of leader who scores that last second game-winning or tying goal. The kind of leader who wins that playoff deciding gaming through strength of will. If we're comparing them to a young team lead by young players I'd say Toews is the comparable. When the Hawks were missing the playoffs this year he was the player who drove them back into it.

A bunch of young, talented guys isn't worth much if there isn't enough leadership in the room. Know what I mean? I'm not a big follower of the blues so I'll ask the OP: who's that guy in St. Louis?

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I draw hesitation from all of the hysteria people on here like to draw from our prospects.

Fact is guys, we think our prospects are uber sweet and every other team's are s***ty because of two reasons:

1) we hear of our guys all the time, and can watch them play

2) we never hear of other team's prospects, and never watch them play.

Remember how people freaked the s*** out because we lost Matthias, then Quincy, and then Ritola? People acted like we just gave away the next Eric Lindros, Bobby Orr and Peter Forsberg.

I don't know what the average age of these boards are, but it seems like most people here are so young they think every average prospect turns into Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

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For the Blues to take that next step and start making the playoffs they need one of their young guys to step up and become the kind of leader who scores that last second game-winning or tying goal. The kind of leader who wins that playoff deciding gaming through strength of will. If we're comparing them to a young team lead by young players I'd say Toews is the comparable. When the Hawks were missing the playoffs this year he was the player who drove them back into it.

A bunch of young, talented guys isn't worth much if there isn't enough leadership in the room. Know what I mean? I'm not a big follower of the blues so I'll ask the OP: who's that guy in St. Louis?

I would have to say Stewart will be that guy and have an absolute monster season. Stew will be to my team what Shanny was in the early 90's for us. Backes is this type of player as well, he just hasn't been surrounded by much to work with. Backes would be a monster on Detroit. Berglund probably advances to another level this season; I'm thinking 75 points.

Just to make sure you guys don't think I'm blowing smoke and pumping up the Blues with blinders on, I am not sold on Halak as a starting goalie, I think Oshie is overrated, seriously believe Perron could be finished, and am not buying into the Tarasenko hype without seeing him play in North America.

To the poster that asked about Tarasenko, it's all but certain he's here for training camp in September.

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I would have to say Stewart will be that guy and have an absolute monster season. Stew will be to my team what Shanny was in the early 90's for us. Backes is this type of player as well, he just hasn't been surrounded by much to work with. Backes would be a monster on Detroit. Berglund probably advances to another level this season; I'm thinking 75 points.

Just to make sure you guys don't think I'm blowing smoke and pumping up the Blues with blinders on, I am not sold on Halak as a starting goalie, I think Oshie is overrated, seriously believe Perron could be finished, and am not buying into the Tarasenko hype without seeing him play in North America.

To the poster that asked about Tarasenko, it's all but certain he's here for training camp in September.

I don't think you're blowing smoke because I can honestly say your team has at least 5 players I'd kill to get on the Wings:

--Stewart (will only get better and power forwards don't exactly grow on trees)

--Taransekco (I was hoping he'd somehow fall to the Wings last year... now I just wish he was with our org so he'd mesh with Dats)

--Berglund (he's great and he's so damn young!)

--Alex Pietrangelo (tons of talent and room to grow his game)

--Backes (stud! imagine what he could do on Datsyuk's wing!)

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I draw hesitation from all of the hysteria people on here like to draw from our prospects.

Fact is guys, we think our prospects are uber sweet and every other team's are s***ty because of two reasons:

1) we hear of our guys all the time, and can watch them play

2) we never hear of other team's prospects, and never watch them play.

Remember how people freaked the s*** out because we lost Matthias, then Quincy, and then Ritola? People acted like we just gave away the next Eric Lindros, Bobby Orr and Peter Forsberg.

I don't know what the average age of these boards are, but it seems like most people here are so young they think every average prospect turns into Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

I was never one of those people. There are a select few on this board that closely follows ALL prospects around the league. And I watch the U16/17/18/20 champiuonships and catch a lot of CHL games and read A LOT of scouting reports on all players (usually only the top 50 and top 50 or so draft prospects). I'll never claim to be a great scout, but myself and a few around here do study prospects.

I would have to say Stewart will be that guy and have an absolute monster season. Stew will be to my team what Shanny was in the early 90's for us. Backes is this type of player as well, he just hasn't been surrounded by much to work with. Backes would be a monster on Detroit. Berglund probably advances to another level this season; I'm thinking 75 points.

Just to make sure you guys don't think I'm blowing smoke and pumping up the Blues with blinders on, I am not sold on Halak as a starting goalie, I think Oshie is overrated, seriously believe Perron could be finished, and am not buying into the Tarasenko hype without seeing him play in North America.

To the poster that asked about Tarasenko, it's all but certain he's here for training camp in September.

I'm nearly positive you know more about your prospects than all of us combined, but sometimes outsiders who do study a plethora of prospects can give an objective analysis. I don't believe you are blowing smoke up anyone's bums. The only thing I think that the Blues F'd up on was trading away Rundblad. I do love that they raped the Avs in that trade this season, though :).

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I don't think you're blowing smoke because I can honestly say your team has at least 5 players I'd kill to get on the Wings:

--Stewart (will only get better and power forwards don't exactly grow on trees)

--Taransekco (I was hoping he'd somehow fall to the Wings last year... now I just wish he was with our org so he'd mesh with Dats)

--Berglund (he's great and he's so damn young!)

--Alex Pietrangelo (tons of talent and room to grow his game)

--Backes (stud! imagine what he could do on Datsyuk's wing!)

Steen is another guy that the Wings would probably love to have. He's not somebody that hockey fans would instantly think is a tough player, but he's nails, and the hardest worker you will ever see.

Shattenkirk is frequently compared to Rafalski and rightfully so. I can't believe we pulled off that trade with Colorado. I might have done Johnson for him straight-up, and most certainly would have traded EJ for Stewart alone.

Let me also say that I'm shocked Rafalski is calling it quits. I have to think Lidstrom goes another year, but if he doesn't, major changes on your blue-line. Wonder how Holland addresses this?

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