Ken Holland: Open to trade to replace Rafalski

[ashenhigh 9]

Yes, that's why you would trade for him, then let Ericsson go and sign Wiz as a FA. Campbell isn't "Drastically" over-paid, besides Markov he'd be the best defenseman on the UFA market this summer if he was. If Campbell was UFA this summer he'd get get $6+ mill easily. Christ, Bieksa is going to get about $5 mill lol

I'm not saying this trade is realistic, i know it won't happen but if it could i'd do it. Campbell has missed some time, but isn't injury prone imo.

Great post by Datsyerberger, I agree with everything. Especially the part that something like Hudler and a 2nd/3rd would get it done.

I'm shocked by this Brian Campbell idea...

Couple of things...

- He has a $7.1 million cap hit until the 2015-2016 season, that is 5 years not 3, with a NTC.

- His cap hit would make him the highest paid played on the team.

- He scored 5 points during the Blackhawks cup run, in 19 games. Brent Sopel scored 6.

- Rafalski has consistently outscored him each season with no friggan ligaments in his knee.

- Campbell's career year doesn't even top Rafalski's seasons at age 34, 35, and 36.

I don't even want to go on but the idea is bad, bad, bad. We need to dump Hudler yes, but this is not the solution. Having Hudler back next season would be a better option. Hoping for Hudler to return to form (2008) or possibly even reach a higher potential is a smarter move than pushing the panic switch, and helping out our division rivals. This trade does not help the wings. They will have better options.

If trading is the way to bring in an elite puck moving defensemen, lets shoot higher and use Filppula as bait. Hudler would be better used as a salary dump to move up in the draft then in a package for an drastically overpaid player.

[Guest stinky fish taco]

hopefully holland can find a GM dumb enough to give up something (anything) for hudler.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Well, I've already demonstrated that their cap numbers are roughly equal relative to age, prime Rafalski and prime Campbell are relatively close in terms of ability/role (#2 offensive d-man), they're both cup winners, and Campbell has shown to fit very well into a puck possession team. Given that a deal could probably include Hudler, which would ensure that we still have plenty of room to sign another d-man, giving us a D group of Lidstrom, Kronwall, Campbell, Stuart, Rightyshotgritty#3/4, Kindl, and whatever else is spare parts, and that Hudler and a 2nd is a cheap price for a d-man of Campbell's caliber, but realistic in this scenario, I'd like you to present an argument for why we're way off. Since I've already demonstrated the cap numbers, I suggest you start elsewhere.

For starters, it would cost us more than that for the simple fact we'd be dealing with Chi, so we're giving up more assets and taking on a NTC, which are just bad to have in todays cap world, without a player having ever played a game for your team and not knowing how they will meld... next, regardless of us "having" the cap space, an overpriced contract IS a problem, because it sets bad precidence ESPECIALLY going into an upcoming year where you have to renegotiate deals with BOTH Kronwall AND Stuart and, regardless of how you spin it, two major injuries in back to back years is a bad sign, call it injury prone or not, it takes its toll...

Also, just for the sake of pointing it out, Raffi at his prime is better than Campbell at his prime, so its not a trade off, its a poor comparison.

I'm shocked by this Brian Campbell idea...

Couple of things...

- He has a $7.1 million cap hit until the 2015-2016 season, that is 5 years not 3, with a NTC.

- His cap hit would make him the highest paid played on the team.

- He scored 5 points during the Blackhawks cup run, in 19 games. Brent Sopel scored 6.

- Rafalski has consistently outscored him each season with no friggan ligaments in his knee.

- Campbell's career year doesn't even top Rafalski's seasons at age 34, 35, and 36.

I don't even want to go on but the idea is bad, bad, bad. We need to dump Hudler yes, but this is not the solution. Having Hudler back next season would be a better option. Hoping for Hudler to return to form (2008) or possibly even reach a higher potential is a smarter move than pushing the panic switch, and helping out our division rivals. This trade does not help the wings. They will have better options.

If trading is the way to bring in an elite puck moving defensemen, lets shoot higher and use Filppula as bait. Hudler would be better used as a salary dump to move up in the draft then in a package for an drastically overpaid player.

Someone else with some sense... I was starting to feel alone here..

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I would like to know what makes you think that deal could get done?

Nothing. As I said in a post right after:

Either way, I don't anticipate this is a move we would ever see, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't love for it to happen

Just because I don't think it'll happen doesn't mean I wouldn't want it to.

[Majsheppard 203]

Nothing. As I said in a post right after:

Just because I don't think it'll happen doesn't mean I wouldn't want it to.

Fair enough, and I would love to see it happen too. Usually those picks are harder to get than established players though...

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Fair enough, and I would love to see it happen too. Usually those picks are harder to get than established players though...

But it's what makes the off season fun, Buzz Killington

[ashenhigh 9]

For starters, it would cost us more than that for the simple fact we'd be dealing with Chi, so we're giving up more assets and taking on a NTC, which are just bad to have in todays cap world, without a player having ever played a game for your team and not knowing how they will meld... next, regardless of us "having" the cap space, an overpriced contract IS a problem, because it sets bad precidence ESPECIALLY going into an upcoming year where you have to renegotiate deals with BOTH Kronwall AND Stuart and, regardless of how you spin it, two major injuries in back to back years is a bad sign, call it injury prone or not, it takes its toll...

Also, just for the sake of pointing it out, Raffi at his prime is better than Campbell at his prime, so its not a trade off, its a poor comparison.

Someone else with some sense... I was starting to feel alone here..

Funny you said that... I actually just posted something very similar over at HF:

"I could argue against everything you said, but I'll only do this paragraph.

Yes Datsyuk is a steal. But the idea is, that if Campbell is a Red Wing, his terrible contract is going to be used as bargaining power for an agent in contract negotiations. There is not a prayer Holland could have in justifying a Campbell's salary in RFA /UFA discussions.

He is clearly overpaid. He isn't even the #2 guy on his own team, with that cap hit.

What happens next season when Stuart's and Kronwall's deals expire? How is Holland going to tell Kronwall that his cap hit should be around 3.5 million while Campbell is robbing Illitch of 7.1 each season?

Brian Rafalski circa 2007 with that contract was worth it, Brian Campbell in present times with that NTC and a 5 year long 7 million contract... no way jose."

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Fair enough, and I would love to see it happen too. Usually those picks are harder to get than established players though...

The thing about a message board is everyone is going to want something different, and people are going to think each other's suggestions are insane. At the end of the day I'd WANT to see Holland add some kind of young, blue chip defender to the system. While that's almost certainly not going to occur, I'm also not going to settle for signing an old, worn-out defender who might help us for the next 1-2 years. At least, not until it actually happens. I'll have a small semblance of hope for an impact move that I'd prefer until it doesn't happen, and then when it doesn't I'll make the best out of what Holland actually snatches up.

I have a ton of faith in Holland, but I also feel that this is a critical time for the Red Wings' future. With Rafalski and Lidstrom (potentially) out and Kronwall and Stuart being 30+ years old, I'd think a young defender would be of the utmost concern. Guys like Kindl and Smith could develop (some might think Almqvist and Marshall too), but I'm not entirely sold on them. Either way, I hope that whatever he does can help the team fill the offensive void left by Raffi's departure.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

Get it done, Kenny.

Edited May 25, 2011 by 10 Minute Misconduct

[wingsownnhl43 14]

He's not even overpaid. Unless Rafalski was in 07-08, because that's what his contract is comparable to. If Rafalski was overpaid then and we won a cup, then let's overpay some more players.

Of course, many posters here don't understand that cap number isn't the real figure that matters, the percentage of cap space a contract occupies is.

Rafalski's cap hit in 07-08 as a matter of percentage: 10.7%

Campbell's contract under a $63m cap hit: 11.2%

0.5% difference, equal to $315,000 under the current cap. If the cap rises $4m in the next 2 years (a rise well under average for a 2 year span since the cap's institution), Campbell's contract would equal 10.6% of our cap hit at the same age Rafalski joined the Wings and occupied 10.7% of the cap. And Campbell's contract carries him to the same age at which Rafalski retired--actually, I think a year younger(while putting up 48 points in 63 games, mind).

Given that they're close in skill sets, Campbell fills a hole at a much lower asset price than alternatives and a roughly equal cap price over the course of his contract. He's not my #1 option by any means, but he'd probably be the easiest to acquire for the relative talent level. Hudler and a pick/prospect probably gets that done if Bowman has any intentions of moving Campbell for cap space (and they need cap space, and they're paying a d-man for a level of play that doesn't fit the role on their team...)

Main downside is he's a lefty shot, but we can still pick up a 2nd pair quality righty shot gritty guy... you know, the sort available in FA right now.

And sorry guys, but conference/division doesn't have near the impact it does on trades in the post-cap world as compared to pre-cap. Plenty of big in-division deals have gone down post-cap.

This could quite possibly be the worst idea I have ever seen on LGW.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Ashen, I'm just going to summarize what I posted in response to that at HF:

Kronwall at $3.5m? :carrot: :banana: :band:

I didn't really get that sufficiently out of my system there. Better emoticons here.

[Majsheppard 203]

Well what do you think it would take to acquire a top three draft pick, keeping in mind that our prospects are pretty good and I don't think Holland will want to part with them.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Get it done, Kenny.

Yeah for sure, he should find a way to bring Ginger's girl here for like public relations or something. Him? Nahhhhh

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Get it done, Kenny.

He was 15th on the Hawks in scoring that playoff run. But yeah, let's make him the highest paid player on the Red Wings and help out the Blackhawks while doing so. Blackhawk fans will be blasting Chelsea Dagger all summer if we trade for Campbell.

Edited May 25, 2011 by wingsownnhl43

[Datsyerberger 279]

Well what do you think it would take to acquire a top three draft pick, keeping in mind that our prospects are pretty good and I don't think Holland will want to part with them.

Something like our 1st, Tatar, Smith, Pulkinnen, and a 5th... considering all of the teams with a top 3 pick are looking at an almost surefire blue chip guy and don't want any of our old crap.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

He was 15th on the Hawks in scoring that playoff run. But yeah, let's make him the highest paid player on the Red Wings and help out the Blackhawks while doing so. Blackhawk fans will be blasting Chelsea Dagger all summer if we traded for Campbell.

I lol'd. That's actully a catchy tune.

But a back end of

Lids - Stuart

Campbell - Kronwall

Wiz - Kindl

would be nice. or a cheap UFA defenseman for Kindl.

[Crashnburnluder 385]

Please stop talking about trading for Campbell, I don't want Holland reading and getting any ideas.

The Hawks have cap problems and he is one of the reasons why. Why would we ever take away there cap problems by making them ours...?

Edited May 25, 2011 by Crashnburnluder

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Well what do you think it would take to acquire a top three draft pick, keeping in mind that our prospects are pretty good and I don't think Holland will want to part with them.

An overpayment on the Red Wings' part, to be sure. But really, I don't what else they can really do to get a quality player without doing that. If we're consistently good, we'll still be picking late. The team's gotten some nice surprises out of late rounds in the past, but scouting has improved and it's hard to rely on that anymore. I'm not advocating selling the farm, but I also thing we've got very solid forward depth, and questionable depth on defense. If we have to move some offensive assets for something on the back end, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Jesusberg

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

Please stop talking about trading for Campbell, I don't want Holland reading and getting any ideas.

The Hawks have cap problems and he is one of the reasons why. Why would we ever take away there cap problems by making them ours...?

I'd only trade for Campbell if it included Hudler from our end. As Hudler isn't a $3 mill a year player either.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I lol'd. That's actully a catchy tune.

But a back end of

Lids - Stuart

Campbell - Kronwall

Wiz - Kindl

would be nice. or a cheap UFA defenseman for Kindl.

Yeah, but we could have

Lids- Stuart

Ehrhoff/Bieksa- Kronwall

Wiz- KIndl

for $1-2 million more than what Campbell makes.... Also, how hard do you think it will be to trade Hudler? We don't need to take on a $7.1 million player to unload him. That part is just puzzling. If Holland chooses to move him, he will do so easily. There are plenty of teams that would be willing to take a flier on him. Especially after what happened to Ville Leino.

Edited May 25, 2011 by wingsownnhl43

[cjm502 165]

Trading for Campbell, what a sick joke

[pucktividi 472]

Sign UFA right handed D man...Wiz,Bieksa,Brewer;send Hudler+1rd pick to Devils for Parise then in 2012 sign Suter via free agency if Nick is gonna hang them up

[Datsyerberger 279]

send Hudler+1rd pick to Devils for Parise

Does Holland have footage of Lou Lam flirting with guys in a bathroom stall or something?

[ashenhigh 9]

I lol'd. That's actully a catchy tune.

But a back end of

Lids - Stuart

Campbell - Kronwall

Wiz - Kindl

would be nice. or a cheap UFA defenseman for Kindl.

I don't think you understand the concept of "future" or have not seen Campbell play since 2007.

5 years. NTC clause. $7.1 cap hit.

-He had 27 points this year, oh but he had injuries this year....

-He had 38 points last year, oh but he had injuries that year....

Well he had 5 points in 19 games in the Blackhawks Stanley Cup run.

I'm sorry, but you are so off if you think the Red Wings are going to bring in a guy, with a 7.1 cap hit, who was outscored by 4 defensemen on his own team, where is upside is supposed to be his scoring.

Brian Campbell's contract is probably the worst next to Dipietro's.

[Guest Crymson]

Green is a very good offensive defenseman. Not sure he'd be worth what he would cost in a trade though. Especially with Wisniewski, Ehrhoff, and Bieksa as UFA who can fill the same slot.

Green is a 13th forward who happens to play along the blue line.

I lol'd. That's actully a catchy tune.

But a back end of

Lids - Stuart

Campbell - Kronwall

Wiz - Kindl

would be nice. or a cheap UFA defenseman for Kindl.

Campbell is atrociously overpaid and sucks in the defensive end. He was also very mediocre in the offensive category this season. No.

Yes, that's why you would trade for him, then let Ericsson go and sign Wiz as a FA. Campbell isn't "Drastically" over-paid, besides Markov he'd be the best defenseman on the UFA market this summer if he was. If Campbell was UFA this summer he'd get get $6+ mill easily. Christ, Bieksa is going to get about $5 mill lol

I'm not saying this trade is realistic, i know it won't happen but if it could i'd do it. Campbell has missed some time, but isn't injury prone imo.

Great post by Datsyerberger, I agree with everything. Especially the part that something like Hudler and a 2nd/3rd would get it done.

I'll say it again: Campbell is paid more than Rafalski and brings less to the table. He had a whopping 27 points to Rafalski's 48, and he played in more games. So, if I have it straight, you want to TRADE ASSETS for an obscenely overpaid defenseman who will cost more than Rafalski and will bring less to the table. And you want to acquire somebody whom the Hawks would be thrilled to give up.

I don't get it. I really don't.

Hudler and something (pick, prospect) for Brian Campbell. Much more realistic than anything else I've seen suggested here.

Things to consider:

Campbell has roughly the same impact on the cap as a matter of percentage that Rafalski did when the Wings signed him. Both have NTCs.

Their offensive skill sets are very close; Campbell is a bit larger and a little more well-rounded.

Campbell's offensive skillset is considerably inferior to that of Rafalski. He has only once outscored the latter, despite being five years younger; even this year, when Rafalski was dealing with numerous injuries, he outscored Campbell by 20 points despite playing fewer games. Further, Campbell is mediocre defensively.

AND HE HAS POSSIBLY THE WORST CONTRACT IN THE LEAGUE.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Crymson