Jonathan Ericsson's Value?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Are you aware that Salei made less than that this season and did arguably a better job? I think $1.5m is too much.

It's a tough argument to make, considering Salei had to fight for his roster spot with Kindl this season. And it's not because Kindl was playing awesome.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/03/ruslan_salei_jakub_kindl_compe.html

He didn't do a better job than Ericsson this season. In the playoffs Salei's value increased a little because of his experience (and even then Ericsson played over 2 more minutes per game), but the regular season he was a disappointment for a lot of the same reasons as people say about Ericsson. Bad turnovers, not physical as he should be, bad penalties. And doesn't have nearly the first pass that E does. Most of the time Salei just goes up the glass or ices the puck.

Salei's value was also less at the start of this season because he's a 36 year old D-man with a long history of injuries. Health is always a question mark with him, so he's not really the best measure of market value of Ericsson.

Also, to correct something mentioned earlier in the thread, Ericsson has said he hadn't started negotiating with Holland, so he doesn't know where mlive got the info that he had turned down a deal for $2 mill a year.

EDIT: And isn't there already a long thread about Ericsson?

Edited June 1, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Over 2 million? People suggesting 3 to 5 year contracts? Have you guys even watched a moment of this guy's career?

He has regressed every season since coming to the NHL and people want to give him a raise AND lock him up long term?

I am all for letting him walk, call me a hater or whatever the LGW term of the day is, but Ericsson has done absolutely nothing to warrant a sure spot on the roster.

He doesn't use his size, doesn't use his shot, is bad defensively and offensively, and is good for at least one monumental breakdown a game that results in a goal against.

The only positive thing anyone can say about him is his "potential", which is a completely meaningless word if you don't actually LIVE UP TO THAT POTENTIAL, which Ericsson has never, ever shown even the faintest signs of doing since the 08 playoffs.

Honestly why does ANYONE here like this guy still? For the price the OP is suggesting we could afford TWO equally bad Dman for the same price.

The most I would accept is 1 or 2 years at about 1.4 per. I'd rather he walk though. Let the Leafs overpay him.

Why so aggressive? Not sure where you are seeing all these people wanting to give him 2mil plus on these forums. looks to me about 99% say that he's only worth 1.5-1.7mil. slow your roll there. haha.

[hooon 1,089]

Why so aggressive? Not sure where you are seeing all these people wanting to give him 2mil plus on these forums. looks to me about 99% say that he's only worth 1.5-1.7mil. slow your roll there. haha.

Not trying to be aggressive, but the OP mentioned signing him for 3 years at 2.25. Another poster in this thread said to lock him up for 5 years.

These statements just baffle me. Ericsson hasn't done a single thing IMO to deserve anywhere near that kind of money or term.

Don't we already have enough players on our team that are "due for a breakout season"? Sometimes it just doesn't happen, and I believe that money could be put to far better use.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I do not want Ericsson for 2.25

I think he should take 1.25 and be happy with it.

Based on Hall Gill's deal there's no way in hell Ericsson should or would take 1.25 million (assuming his agent isn't mentally retarded). Ericsson's better offensively, younger, is a way better skater and has some upside compared to Gill. He was 4th on the Wings in mins played this season with 18:50 a game.

Considering that Holland already offered Ericsson's camp a multi-year 2 million per year contract it's pretty hilarious that you think he deserves 1.25.

[e_prime 1,936]

Considering that Holland already offered Ericsson's camp a multi-year 2 million per year contract it's pretty hilarious that you think he deserves 1.25.

I thought that this had been denied by both sides. Both the offer and the report that it had been turned down.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ken Holland's starting point was 2 million a season for Ericsson (according to Mlive). I assume that Holland knows what he's doing. *shrug*

I thought that this had been denied by both sides. Both the offer and the report that it had been turned down.

Denying that sort of rumour is standard operating procedure at this stage of negotiations.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Who would you compare him to in terms of quality? I am looking around the league to see what others in his talents get. Hal Gill is a good example, expect Ericsson has more speed, better offensive skills, and has upside. On the flip side, he's not as physical or as good along the boards. So... IMO, Ericsson has more value than Gill.

You pretty much described how these two players are not alike.

That seems like a huge overpayment for a third-pairing defenseman who has shown absolutely no signs of progress over the last two seasons.

Well hopefully that will change with new assistant coach.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Hopefully his value is alot... so he doesn't re-sign.

[Guest Crymson]

Well hopefully that will change with new assistant coach.

No amount of coaching has anything to do with Ericsson's boneheaded mistakes and inabilities. Coaching is not responsible for his failure to be physical, nor his frequent defensive screw-ups--getting caught not skating, pinching at the blue-line at terrible times, leaving players wide open in awful areas, taking stupid penalties--nor his offensive inabilities--horrible shot selection, giving up breakaways due to mess-ups in the offensive zone, general inability to produce points--nor his general laziness. That's all on him.

Based on Hall Gill's deal there's no way in hell Ericsson should or would take 1.25 million (assuming his agent isn't mentally retarded). Ericsson's better offensively, younger, is a way better skater and has some upside compared to Gill. He was 4th on the Wings in mins played this season with 18:50 a game.

Considering that Holland already offered Ericsson's camp a multi-year 2 million per year contract it's pretty hilarious that you think he deserves 1.25.

Ericsson is worthless offensively and has mediocre worth defensively.

I, too, believe that the news about his contract was false. It would be unusual for both the player and the organization to deny a contract offer's existence.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ericsson is worthless offensively and has mediocre worth defensively.

lol

Man he's a polarizing player on these boards. I guess we have to have someone on the out there to hate now that Lilja, Lebda and Meech are gone.

[eva unit zero 271]

Based on Hall Gill's deal there's no way in hell Ericsson should or would take 1.25 million (assuming his agent isn't mentally retarded). Ericsson's better offensively, younger, is a way better skater and has some upside compared to Gill. He was 4th on the Wings in mins played this season with 18:50 a game.

Considering that Holland already offered Ericsson's camp a multi-year 2 million per year contract it's pretty hilarious that you think he deserves 1.25.

Ericsson scored 15 points to Gill's 9. Ericsson also had the opportunity to play with Rafalski all season, who scored 48 points in 63 games. Ericsson has better offensive tools, but he certainly doesn't put them to very good use. If Derek Meech is re-signed, and given a serious look, he would be a definite upgrade on Ericsson offensively. Physically there would be a loss, and Meech's defensive game is average. But he would be a much better value than Ericsson, so if the Wings signed a guy like Bieksa or Pitkanen, Meech's defensive and physical games would be far less important as his offensive skill replacing Rafalski on the PP would be his only potential effect on special teams, pending how Bieksa/Pitkanen/Kindl worked out for the PP and PK units.

Going off topic, thinking about the Meech idea makes me like it more and more. Bring in Pitkanen to replace Ericsson, Meech replaces Rafalski, Janik replaces Salei, and sign a top-six all-around forward like Brooks Laich, or even Tomas Kopecky (hey, he had SICK chemistry when Hudler centered him). This allows for Flip to be moved primarily to the wing, with Dats/Z/Laich up the middle and Flip/Homer, Huds/Cleary, and Franzen/Bertuzzi on the wings. A line of Franzen/Laich/Bertuzzi would be the first line on many teams and the second line on most if not all of the rest. Mursak/Helm/Eaves as the fourth line, with Abdelkader and Emmerton as the spares. Alternatively, swapping Eaves/Mursak and Homer provides much more speed to the top line, but Homer ends up in that situation where he's just out of place on a checking line. You could dress Emmerton or Abdelkader in Homer's place, but then you lose that PP presence. Swapping Cleary for Homer might work, but it leaves two of the team's slowest forwards on the same line.

Next year, sign Ryan Suter to fill Lidstrom's spot. Homer retires, Bertuzzi and Hudler stick around, for probably a combined total of the same about $4.875 they make now. Helm gets a bump to around $2m on a fairly long deal. Abdelkader gets a small increase for a short deal. Stuart sticks around, again close to $4m, and Kronwall gets close to $6m. Osgood signs one last 1-year deal, pushing him through the 12-13 season and near or possibly past Sawchuk's career win numbers for both the Wings and overall.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ericsson scored 15 points to Gill's 9. Ericsson also had the opportunity to play with Rafalski all season, who scored 48 points in 63 games. Ericsson has better offensive tools, but he certainly doesn't put them to very good use. If Derek Meech is re-signed, and given a serious look, he would be a definite upgrade on Ericsson offensively. Physically there would be a loss, and Meech's defensive game is average. But he would be a much better value than Ericsson, so if the Wings signed a guy like Bieksa or Pitkanen, Meech's defensive and physical games would be far less important as his offensive skill replacing Rafalski on the PP would be his only potential effect on special teams, pending how Bieksa/Pitkanen/Kindl worked out for the PP and PK units.

Going off topic, thinking about the Meech idea makes me like it more and more. Bring in Pitkanen to replace Ericsson, Meech replaces Rafalski, Janik replaces Salei, and sign a top-six all-around forward like Brooks Laich, or even Tomas Kopecky (hey, he had SICK chemistry when Hudler centered him). This allows for Flip to be moved primarily to the wing, with Dats/Z/Laich up the middle and Flip/Homer, Huds/Cleary, and Franzen/Bertuzzi on the wings. A line of Franzen/Laich/Bertuzzi would be the first line on many teams and the second line on most if not all of the rest. Mursak/Helm/Eaves as the fourth line, with Abdelkader and Emmerton as the spares. Alternatively, swapping Eaves/Mursak and Homer provides much more speed to the top line, but Homer ends up in that situation where he's just out of place on a checking line. You could dress Emmerton or Abdelkader in Homer's place, but then you lose that PP presence. Swapping Cleary for Homer might work, but it leaves two of the team's slowest forwards on the same line.

Next year, sign Ryan Suter to fill Lidstrom's spot. Homer retires, Bertuzzi and Hudler stick around, for probably a combined total of the same about $4.875 they make now. Helm gets a bump to around $2m on a fairly long deal. Abdelkader gets a small increase for a short deal. Stuart sticks around, again close to $4m, and Kronwall gets close to $6m. Osgood signs one last 1-year deal, pushing him through the 12-13 season and near or possibly past Sawchuk's career win numbers for both the Wings and overall.

The Meech ship sailed long ago. He'll likely be playing in Europe next year.

Also, I'm not sure the solution to our problems is to switch Meech in for Ericsson and get smaller on the back end.

[Guest Crymson]

lol

Man he's a polarizing player on these boards. I guess we have to have someone on the out there to hate now that Lilja, Lebda and Meech are gone.

I detest him because he has shown his potential--he was good for a stretch of about 30 games in the first half of the season--but is apparently too boneheaded to keep it up. Maybe he has an anxiety problem?

[eva unit zero 271]

The Meech ship sailed long ago. He'll likely be playing in Europe next year.

Also, I'm not sure the solution to our problems is to switch Meech in for Ericsson and get smaller on the back end.

Smaller? Let's take a look.

Pitkanen (6-3, 213) would be replacing Ericsson (6-4, 218). That's a loss of one inch and five pounds. Not much of a change, especially given that Pitkanen is much more physical.

Meech (5-11, 200) replaces Rafalski (5-10, 194), which is a gain of one inch and six pounds. Meech is bigger and more physical.

Finally, in the #7 slot, Doug Janik (6-2, 211) replaces Ruslan Salei (6-1, 212), which is a gain of one inch but a loss of one pound. So to bring in the stay-at-home/PK specialist, there's no real change in size. The only difference is that Salei's physical game has seriously deteriorated over the past few years, making Janik the better option for a punishing depth defenseman.

So all three replacements are better physical players, who are basically the same size as their counterparts.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Could live with a 2 year deal for 1.4-1.5 or a 3 year deal for around 1.6-1.75

Wouldn't really want to go anything higher than that.

[Majsheppard 203]

Smaller? Let's take a look.

Pitkanen (6-3, 213) would be replacing Ericsson (6-4, 218). That's a loss of one inch and five pounds. Not much of a change, especially given that Pitkanen is much more physical.

Meech (5-11, 200) replaces Rafalski (5-10, 194), which is a gain of one inch and six pounds. Meech is bigger and more physical.

It seems Meech is gone. I think we used up all his patience.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Ericsson scored 15 points to Gill's 9. Ericsson also had the opportunity to play with Rafalski all season, who scored 48 points in 63 games. Ericsson has better offensive tools, but he certainly doesn't put them to very good use. If Derek Meech is re-signed, and given a serious look, he would be a definite upgrade on Ericsson offensively. Physically there would be a loss, and Meech's defensive game is average. But he would be a much better value than Ericsson, so if the Wings signed a guy like Bieksa or Pitkanen, Meech's defensive and physical games would be far less important as his offensive skill replacing Rafalski on the PP would be his only potential effect on special teams, pending how Bieksa/Pitkanen/Kindl worked out for the PP and PK units.

<snip>.

Aside from his 3+ seasons with the Griffins and the training camps every season, he's played 126 regular season games with the Red Wings (Ericsson, for reference has played 37 more games).

Don't you think the Wings have given him a serious look at this point?

[Guest Heaten]

Over 2 million? People suggesting 3 to 5 year contracts? Have you guys even watched a moment of this guy's career?

He has regressed every season since coming to the NHL and people want to give him a raise AND lock him up long term?

I am all for letting him walk, call me a hater or whatever the LGW term of the day is, but Ericsson has done absolutely nothing to warrant a sure spot on the roster.

He doesn't use his size, doesn't use his shot, is bad defensively and offensively, and is good for at least one monumental breakdown a game that results in a goal against.

The only positive thing anyone can say about him is his "potential", which is a completely meaningless word if you don't actually LIVE UP TO THAT POTENTIAL, which Ericsson has never, ever shown even the faintest signs of doing since the 08 playoffs.

Honestly why does ANYONE here like this guy still? For the price the OP is suggesting we could afford TWO equally bad Dman for the same price.

The most I would accept is 1 or 2 years at about 1.4 per. I'd rather he walk though. Let the Leafs overpay him.

Yet he was 2nd best on the team among defensemen in the +/- category....

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yet he was 2nd best on the team among defensemen in the +/- category....

I know. It's staggering that Babcock would keep putting him out there almost 19 minutes a night, when Ericsson is singlehandedly responsible for giving up a goal in every single game.

[brett 1,029]

go away ericsson, if you dont want to be here 100% we sure as s*** dont want you.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

go away ericsson, if you dont want to be here 100% we sure as s*** dont want you.

Ericsson on re-signing:

"I know there will probably be more money somewhere else, but my first priority is here. I really like it here, and hopefully things will work out here."

http://www.freep.com/article/20110602/SPORTS05/106020452/1053/sports05

What's next, Ericsson kicks puppies too?

Edited June 2, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[Guest blueadams]

I hope he and Holland come to an agreement because I think E is a solid dman (and future #4). Hal Gill just got $2.25 million, so Ericsson should be worth around the same, but has more upside. So if Holland can get a 3 yr deal done, that would be ideal. How about 3 years for $8 million?

How about $0.00 as a value. He's a liability defensively, and he doesn't contribute offensively. Gotta do one of the two to be worth something.

[hooon 1,089]

Yet he was 2nd best on the team among defensemen in the +/- category....

Oh the old +/- stat. Its like the go-to stat when the player doesn't have anything else worth praising.

Wasn't Lidstrom a minus player this year? Does that make E better than him defensively? No.

I'm basing my opinion on the quality of his play, by watching the games night in and night out, rather than using ONE subjective statistic that doesn't actually prove anything about his game.

I have yet to hear a single rational reason as to why we SHOULD keep him. What does he bring to the team that can't be very easily replaced?

Edited June 2, 2011 by hooon

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

I see Ericcson going to either the NYR or Toronto. Let them have him...

[Guest Crymson]

Yet he was 2nd best on the team among defensemen in the +/- category....

Yes, and watching him play made it very obvious that it was Rafalski who was responsible for it.

Also, LOL again @ giving Ericsson nearly $3m per year.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Crymson