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Thoughts on Joni Pitkanen


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#21 kipwinger

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 09:49 AM

It seems like the meaning of the phrase "playing physical" is changing. I couldn't find it but I remember reading an article where Jim Nill said that when they tell their players/prospects to play physical, they really mean playing tough on the puck first. Therefore, if a player wins a lot of his battles for the puck or just seems to have the puck a lot, then these days they play physical according to some. Posted Image



By this rationale Lidstrom and Kronwall are just as physical as one another, or Filpula and Stuart, considering they all battle hard for loose pucks and more often than not, come up with them. Staying on the puck and working hard on your assignments is not the same thing as a defenseman being physical. Shea Weber is physical, Kronwall and Stuart are both pretty physical, Ed Jovanovski is physical. Shane Doan is a very physical forward. Joni Pitkanen is not a physical hockey player, unless of course you change the meaning of "physical hockey player" to "hard working" hockey player. In which case you'd still have to convince me that Pitkanen meets the qualifications, but at least then I'd be able to walk around talking about how Henrik Zetterberg is the most physical player in hockey.

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#22 blueadams

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 03:27 PM

Seems like everyone agrees that he's not physical (I did read that he was in an NHL Draft Scouting report, btw...good guess). The guy from Carolina saying that he's worst defensively than Rafalski really puts it over the top for me though.

Bring on Jovanovski for a one year deal I guess. Maybe our top 6 forward signing will be a righty that can man the point on the PP.

#23 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 03:34 PM

Seems like everyone agrees that he's not physical (I did read that he was in an NHL Draft Scouting report, btw...good guess). The guy from Carolina saying that he's worst defensively than Rafalski really puts it over the top for me though.

Bring on Jovanovski for a one year deal I guess. Maybe our top 6 forward signing will be a righty that can man the point on the PP.

I wouldn't mind Jovanovski, but with an acquisition like him, we're hardly getting younger(Jovanovski turns 35 later this month). Who knows how much he has left in the tank. Ideally, Kevin Bieksa is my first choice, but we all know he will be overpaid by someone. Who knows if he's in Vancouver's future plans.
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#24 Konnan511

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 03:57 PM

Jovo and Hamrlik for one season or two. Develop our young D Prospects, go hard at next years FA market since it looks to be shaping up to be quite the big market.
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#25 Crymson

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 04:07 PM

Seems like everyone agrees that he's not physical (I did read that he was in an NHL Draft Scouting report, btw...good guess). The guy from Carolina saying that he's worst defensively than Rafalski really puts it over the top for me though.

Bring on Jovanovski for a one year deal I guess. Maybe our top 6 forward signing will be a righty that can man the point on the PP.


Why did you post such a broken "description" of Pitkanen?

#26 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 04:13 PM

Honestly,I don't know too much about him, alot of folks here get excited about him and alot don't. I've mentioned him before just based on stats and some of the positive stuff I have read on here, but I am reading more and more negative things and I am not liking it.... Honestly, I believe the Wings should sign Wiz, Jovo and Lids, then decide whether or not to pay Ericsson or let Kindl be our #6 guy and have someone else be #7...

I hear things negative and positive about everyone, nobody is 100% positive, there are always negatives about someone, but when the negatives start piling up and passing up the positives, then there may be a problem. The negs I hear about Wiz and Jovo are a little concerning, but I believe the positive things about them outweigh the negatives I have heard. If Holland can convince Ericsson to take 1 year at around $1.5M, Jovo 1 year around $2.5-$3M and Wiz $4-$4.5M, I think the D would be great: Lids, Stuart, Kronwall, Wisniewski, Jovo, Ericsson, Kindl...Add to that whomever they hire as new Asst. Coach, the Wings should have a much better defense than last season. That's about $15M of the possible $21.5M on D, leaving enough to re-sign Miller/Eaves/Goalie & bring up Mursak. (possibly Tanguay or Jokinen as well...)


So, to the topic at hand, after reading positive and negative things about him, I think the Wings should pass on Pitkanen. Especially if he is worse defensively than Rafalski was AND would cost over $5M...

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#27 Datsyerberger

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 04:18 PM

Pitkanen is an abysmal #1, but he plays much better if he's not "the guy", in my opinion. He seems to do better without the pressure and against weaker opposition. He's more of a fit on a contender than he is to try to build around.
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#28 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:58 PM

Why did you post such a broken "description" of Pitkanen?


It's blueadams, man. Shoot first, ask questions later.

#29 kipwinger

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:42 AM

Honestly,I don't know too much about him, alot of folks here get excited about him and alot don't. I've mentioned him before just based on stats and some of the positive stuff I have read on here, but I am reading more and more negative things and I am not liking it.... Honestly, I believe the Wings should sign Wiz, Jovo and Lids, then decide whether or not to pay Ericsson or let Kindl be our #6 guy and have someone else be #7...

I hear things negative and positive about everyone, nobody is 100% positive, there are always negatives about someone, but when the negatives start piling up and passing up the positives, then there may be a problem. The negs I hear about Wiz and Jovo are a little concerning, but I believe the positive things about them outweigh the negatives I have heard. If Holland can convince Ericsson to take 1 year at around $1.5M, Jovo 1 year around $2.5-$3M and Wiz $4-$4.5M, I think the D would be great: Lids, Stuart, Kronwall, Wisniewski, Jovo, Ericsson, Kindl...Add to that whomever they hire as new Asst. Coach, the Wings should have a much better defense than last season. That's about $15M of the possible $21.5M on D, leaving enough to re-sign Miller/Eaves/Goalie & bring up Mursak. (possibly Tanguay or Jokinen as well...)


So, to the topic at hand, after reading positive and negative things about him, I think the Wings should pass on Pitkanen. Especially if he is worse defensively than Rafalski was AND would cost over $5M...



You had me right up until you didn't. I"m going to be very disappointed if the Wings sign Tanguay or Jokinen. What better way to spend money and add absolutely no toughness or physical play up front. Remember that Sharks series? Do you realistically think that Alex Tanguay or Jussi Jokinen would have made one bit of difference in that one? I know they score (so please don't list off a bunch of numbers to me), but we scored last year, and the year before, we always have plenty of scoring up front. We don't have size, toughness, or depth in the top six. Please, please, please, sign Brooks Laich, Erik Cole, or make an offer sheet for Andrew Ladd. Anything other than another 190 lb. European forward.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#30 blueadams

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:28 AM

Why did you post such a broken "description" of Pitkanen?


Just stop talking to me dude.

#31 stillwater

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:05 PM

Just stop talking to me dude.



Please, just stop "talking".

#32 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 03:31 PM

You had me right up until you didn't. I"m going to be very disappointed if the Wings sign Tanguay or Jokinen. What better way to spend money and add absolutely no toughness or physical play up front. Remember that Sharks series? Do you realistically think that Alex Tanguay or Jussi Jokinen would have made one bit of difference in that one? I know they score (so please don't list off a bunch of numbers to me), but we scored last year, and the year before, we always have plenty of scoring up front. We don't have size, toughness, or depth in the top six. Please, please, please, sign Brooks Laich, Erik Cole, or make an offer sheet for Andrew Ladd. Anything other than another 190 lb. European forward.

I hear you, but if you have been a Wings fan for any amount of time, you know then that Holland doesn't sign players with toughness and physical play up front. Hopefully he addresses that on the D with JOvo and or Wizzer, but (and I begged and begged for Ladd last off season) Holland is not gonna sign that type of forward. To Holland, a top six forawrd IS a 190lb. European. I hate it, but thats how it is... Holland wants scoring from his top 6 and even though he is not a Euro, Tanguay and/or Jokinen would provide that...SOFT, yes, but history dictates that we just aren't gonna see Laich, Cole or Ladd.... Of course that would be Crow I would gladly and happily eat if Holland did sign someone of that nature! But by all means, Holland, PLEASE prove me otherwise! PLEASE!!!!

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#33 blueadams

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 03:40 PM

Please, just stop "talking".


Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to click my thread...to read through my thread...and to respond to my thread?

No.

STFU.

#34 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to click my thread...to read through my thread...and to respond to my thread?

No.

STFU.


No... but at the rate you create "New threads" (really just the same crap recycled in hopes of a more positive response), it's sorta hard to ignore.

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#35 blueadams

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:30 PM

No... but at the rate you create "New threads" (really just the same crap recycled in hopes of a more positive response), it's sorta hard to ignore.


There's one on the front page right now...alongside 20 others that you could read. I don't like listening to you complain. So, please, just click one of the other 20 threads to bless with your opinion.

#36 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:00 PM

Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to click my thread...to read through my thread...and to respond to my thread?

No.

STFU.


Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to read my post...? and respond to my post?

No.

Edited by CaliWingsNut, 07 June 2011 - 10:00 PM.

Figures don't lie, but liars sure figure. - Mark Twain


#37 Datsyerberger

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:40 PM

I hear you, but if you have been a Wings fan for any amount of time, you know then that Holland doesn't sign players with toughness and physical play up front. Hopefully he addresses that on the D with JOvo and or Wizzer, but (and I begged and begged for Ladd last off season) Holland is not gonna sign that type of forward. To Holland, a top six forawrd IS a 190lb. European. I hate it, but thats how it is... Holland wants scoring from his top 6 and even though he is not a Euro, Tanguay and/or Jokinen would provide that...SOFT, yes, but history dictates that we just aren't gonna see Laich, Cole or Ladd.... Of course that would be Crow I would gladly and happily eat if Holland did sign someone of that nature! But by all means, Holland, PLEASE prove me otherwise! PLEASE!!!!


Uhhh, Bert? The guy's built like a mac truck and while he's not "Old Bert" he still throws his weight around a bit. Canadian boy.

Cleary? Only 6'0, but 210 lbs of bulk in that 6'0, another Canadian boy who throws his weight around.

Abdelkader? 6'2, 215, throws his weight around. Michigan kid, that's pretty much south Ontario amirite?

Franzen.. okay, big, not gritty. Swede. Plays like a big Swede.

Anyhow, wingers are where Holland DOES add his size, often via FA. On the other hand, our centers are tiny. And our D are shrimps, too.. most are either small or not gritty by any stretch of the imagination. But if there is any one place I do expect Holland to add size via FA (whether it's aggressive size like Bert, or passive size like Hossa), it's on the wing.
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#38 stillwater

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 01:35 AM

There's one on the front page right now...alongside 20 others that you could read. I don't like listening to you complain. So, please, just click one of the other 20 threads to bless with your opinion.


Best advice ever ... ignore 'blueadams' threads, and coming from blueadams.

Why you haven't been banished, I don't understand.

#39 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:07 AM

I hear you, but if you have been a Wings fan for any amount of time, you know then that Holland doesn't sign players with toughness and physical play up front. Hopefully he addresses that on the D with JOvo and or Wizzer, but (and I begged and begged for Ladd last off season) Holland is not gonna sign that type of forward. To Holland, a top six forawrd IS a 190lb. European. I hate it, but thats how it is... Holland wants scoring from his top 6 and even though he is not a Euro, Tanguay and/or Jokinen would provide that...SOFT, yes, but history dictates that we just aren't gonna see Laich, Cole or Ladd.... Of course that would be Crow I would gladly and happily eat if Holland did sign someone of that nature! But by all means, Holland, PLEASE prove me otherwise! PLEASE!!!!



I wish I could disagree with anything you've said here, but sadly, you're probably right. I do still think Wiz or Bieksa are the best options on the back end. But Laich or Ladd are mostly just wishful thinking. I'm still knocking on wood until mid july though.

Uhhh, Bert? The guy's built like a mac truck and while he's not "Old Bert" he still throws his weight around a bit. Canadian boy.

Cleary? Only 6'0, but 210 lbs of bulk in that 6'0, another Canadian boy who throws his weight around.

Abdelkader? 6'2, 215, throws his weight around. Michigan kid, that's pretty much south Ontario amirite?

Franzen.. okay, big, not gritty. Swede. Plays like a big Swede.

Anyhow, wingers are where Holland DOES add his size, often via FA. On the other hand, our centers are tiny. And our D are shrimps, too.. most are either small or not gritty by any stretch of the imagination. But if there is any one place I do expect Holland to add size via FA (whether it's aggressive size like Bert, or passive size like Hossa), it's on the wing.


However, you bring up a good point with Bert and Hossa. We drafted Franzen and Abdelkader though. And Cleary was sort of a reclaimation thing, nobody knew he'd turn out like he did. But still, very valid point.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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