77 replies to this topic

[Berry]

So let's summarize a little bit what we said during these gloomy weeks...


In order to have a stanley cup potential, the wings need:

- a 2nd line center/winger who can score and handle the puck well (Richard'd be perfect)

- a 25 minutes solid Dman (Weber is a dream...), 2 if Lids retires

- Eaves, Drapes (min salary) back and a solid 3rd line Dman (similar to Salei)

- trade flip or hudler

- keep Joey Mac

The lines would be:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Brad Richards ($7.000m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,767,044; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $432,956

Isn't it a dream team??? Up to you guys....

[Nevermind]

Kindl and Smith on the 3rd pair is a nightmare actually.

We're not throwing an offer sheet to Weber. And we're not spending that kind of money on a forward (Richards).

And if it's a dream, why would you trade Filppula instead of Hudler?

Edited by Nevermind, 07 June 2011 - 04:41 AM.

[Datsyerberger]

2 solid UFA defensemen, 1 UFA #6/7 dman

Lidstrom - UFA
Kronwall - UFA
Stuart - Kindl/UFA
UFA/Kindl

or

1 very good UFA defenseman, Ericsson, UFA #6/7

Kronwall - UFA
Lidstrom - Ericsson
Stuart - Kindl/UFA
UFA/Kindl

or

1 very good UFA defenseman, Smith, UFA #6/7

Kronwall - UFA
Lidstrom - Smith/Kindl
Stuart - Kindl/Smith
UFA

or 2 good UFA dmen, Smith or Ericsson, UFA #6/7, trade Kindl

Lidstrom - UFA
Kronwall - UFA
Stuart - Smith
UFA

Possibly add a scoring winger to any of those scenarios if cap permits:

Hudler - Datsyuk - Cleary
Franzen - Zetterberg - UFA
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Holmstrom
Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves
Draper/Miller/Emmerton/Whoever

if cap or availability doesn't permit:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Franzen
Hudler - Helm - Cleary
Emmerton - Abdelkader - Eaves
Draper/Miller/Whoever

Note that one of the UFA d-men can be acquired in a trade rather than UFA if available.

I personally find defense scenario #2 the most realistic and viable, which probably (hopefully) means add a winger as well. However, if Smith impresses enough, I think Kindl moving is the best option if a cup chase is the idea. Wasting Kindl as a #7 isn't good for value, Smith - Kindl pairing would be a train wreck, and Smith and Kindl on different pairings spreads our defense a bit thin unless A: one of Smith or Kindl is amazing, B: the d-man we acquire for top pairing is incredibly good, or preferably C: both.

I also feel:

Kronwall - Stuart
Lidstrom - Smith
UFA - Kindl

is viable if Smith is impressive enough.

Edited by Datsyerberger, 07 June 2011 - 05:56 AM.

[stevkrause]

blueadams, is that you?

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

Kindl and Smith on the 3rd pair is a nightmare actually.

We're not throwing an offer sheet to Weber. And we're not spending that kind of money on a forward (Richards).

And if it's a dream, why would you trade Filppula instead of Hudler?

This....

[stevkrause]

blueadams, is that you?

I'm pretty sure it's the same poster from the way they post and from the content, layout and general train of thought of past posts, but either way... here goes -







DRINK!!!!!

Edited by stevkrause, 07 June 2011 - 09:06 AM.

[kipwinger]

I'm changing this post because when I wrote the old one I was being a total ****. I don't agree with your projected team, I would go so far as to say that I STRONGLY disagree with your ideas about the building of this team. That said, you're probably still a pretty cool dude, and there's probably no reason for me to have replied earlier in the manner I did. See below for the reasons that I disagree with your projected lineup, and have a good one Berry.

Edited by kipwinger, 07 June 2011 - 10:32 AM.

[wingsdiehard13]

There is a very, very slim chance that Richards signs here. That being said, there is absolutely no chance Shea Weber will be a Red Wing. If you don't understand why, refer to the post Datsyerberger made last week.

[ComradeWasabi]

We really needed a new thread for this. None of the others were at all applicable. Thanks man.

[kipwinger]

1. It is not a very good long term strategy for you to have over half your cap space tied up in five players.
2. It is a TERRIBLE strategy to have two rookies for a third defensive pairing, something that you've suggested here, and would probably be unavoidable if you had half your cap space invested in five players.
3. You suggest promoting Jiri Hudler to the first line (which includes 5 or 6 more minutes of ice time) when he was incapable of playing quality defense last year with 5 less minutes of ice time, against third liners instead of first. Tell me how effective he's going to be against Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan or Sedin, Sedin, Burrows or Thornton, Marleau, heatly/setoguchi/clowe. I realize that on the first line Hudler will score more, so will every team we play against.
4. Filpula does play defense, you want to trade him?
5. Your third line of Bertuzzi and Holmstrom is essentially made of two wingers who do the exact same thing on the ice with Helm thrown in the middle for some reason. They are also probably the oldest, slowest, and lowest scoring third line in hockey even with helm (because you've hamstrung him by putting him on the ice with REALLY old, slow, guys).

Conclusion: In the post cap world, you can't just throw a six or seven million dollar all-star into as many positions as you can and expect to be a better team overall. You can't afford it in the long run and still develop talent. You also can't afford it in the short run and have a third or fourth line capable of playing against teams who do develop talent. Ken Holland likes to say that in the post cap world it's about getting more out of the guys that you aren't paying much, rather than paying a bunch for really good guys (obviously not verbatim).

Edited by kipwinger, 07 June 2011 - 10:33 AM.

[blueadams]

Babcock already said what we need...a top pairing defenseman and a top six forward.

More realistic than the OP - Fill in the big blanks with Selanne and Jovanovski. Fill in the 13th forward spot with Eaves, Miller, or Draper. Fill in the backup goalie spot with Osgood, MacDonald, Larsson or Nabakov.

2012 Stanley Cup Champions.

*Selanne*-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Filppula-Cleary
Mursak-Helm-Abdelkader
*Eaves/Miller/Draper*

Lidstrom-*Jovanovski*
Kronwall-Stuart
*Ericsson/Smith*-Kindl
Janik

Howard
*Osgood/MacDonald/Larsson/Nabakov*

[wingsdiehard13]

Babcock already said what we need...a top pairing defenseman and a top six forward.

More realistic than the OP - Fill in the big blanks with Selanne and Jovanovski. Fill in the 13th forward spot with Eaves, Miller, or Draper. Fill in the backup goalie spot with Osgood, MacDonald, Larsson or Nabakov.

2012 Stanley Cup Champions.

*Selanne*-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Filppula-Cleary
Mursak-Helm-Abdelkader
*Eaves/Miller/Draper*

Lidstrom-*Jovanovski*
Kronwall-Stuart
*Ericsson/Smith*-Kindl
Janik

Howard
*Osgood/MacDonald/Larsson/Nabakov*

And do what with the remaining ~8 million in cap space?

[Crymson]

I think a better title for this thread would be, "Let's summarize what I want for next season.

[Berry]

Kindl and Smith on the 3rd pair is a nightmare actually.

We're not throwing an offer sheet to Weber. And we're not spending that kind of money on a forward (Richards).

And if it's a dream, why would you trade Filppula instead of Hudler?

I agree... Weber and Richard will never make the team... too much money. Do not forget that including Lids, we have 20 M to spend.

Flip has proven multiple times that he is not able to play as a 2nd line center (that was Holland's goal). We need a skilled center in order to allow Z and Pav to play together... Huds was great 2 seasons ago.. maybe next year he'll be back in shape.

[Blueliner]

blueadams, is that you?

That's exactly what I was going to write.

[kipwinger]

Babcock already said what we need...a top pairing defenseman and a top six forward.

More realistic than the OP - Fill in the big blanks with Selanne and Jovanovski. Fill in the 13th forward spot with Eaves, Miller, or Draper. Fill in the backup goalie spot with Osgood, MacDonald, Larsson or Nabakov.

2012 Stanley Cup Champions.

*Selanne*-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Filppula-Cleary
Mursak-Helm-Abdelkader
*Eaves/Miller/Draper*

Lidstrom-*Jovanovski*
Kronwall-Stuart
*Ericsson/Smith*-Kindl
Janik

Howard
*Osgood/MacDonald/Larsson/Nabakov*

replace the much aged and often broken Rafalski, and get stronger and deeper up front by adding the much aged and often broken Selanne and Jovanovski? Am I missing something?

[Travis]

replace the much aged and often broken Rafalski, and get stronger and deeper up front by adding the much aged and often broken Selanne and Jovanovski? Am I missing something?

Yeah, I don't know what's up with all the Selanne and Jovanovski love. I understand that they are both talented players, but both are in the twilight of their careers - I really don't think that's the direction the Wings should be going in. They've got a real opportunity to add some youth to the roster. I understand the free agent class is thin, but I'd really hate to see them get older.

[kipwinger]

Yeah, I don't know what's up with all the Selanne and Jovanovski love. I understand that they are both talented players, but both are in the twilight of their careers - I really don't think that's the direction the Wings should be going in. They've got a real opportunity to add some youth to the roster. I understand the free agent class is thin, but I'd really hate to see them get older.

Not to mention the fact that both of those guys cost a lot, and because they are old you can't count on any kind of production over the long run. Jovanovski makes six million dollars and put up 14 pts. in 50 games last year. Why in the hell would you pay him six for that when you could pay Wisniewski, Bieksa, or Erhoff 4.5-5 for 70-82 games and 50 pts. And those guys are all 27-30 years old. Same for Selanne, admittedly he had an awesome season last year, no doubt about it, but the dude is 40 years old. Anybody really want to take a chance that he'll do anything like that again. No to mention the fact that we've already got Holmstrom (38), Bertuzzi (36), Draper (39), Lidstrom (41), Osgood (36), all potentially playing huge roles for next year's team. Or in the case of Lidstrom and Bertuzzi and Holmstom DEFINITELY playing huge roles on next year's team. Now we want to count on Selanne and Jovanovski to be healthy and play a championship level too? Not this guy.

[blueadams]

And do what with the remaining ~8 million in cap space?

Stealing Selanne from ANA wouldn't be cheap.

replace the much aged and often broken Rafalski, and get stronger and deeper up front by adding the much aged and often broken Selanne and Jovanovski? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are, smart arse.

You're missing the complete lack of better options we're going to have in the FA market this off-season.

[esteef]

We need 3 more Datsyuks.

esteef