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Berry

Let's summarize...

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So let's summarize a little bit what we said during these gloomy weeks...

In order to have a stanley cup potential, the wings need:

- a 2nd line center/winger who can score and handle the puck well (Richard'd be perfect)

- a 25 minutes solid Dman (Weber is a dream...), 2 if Lids retires

- Eaves, Drapes (min salary) back and a solid 3rd line Dman (similar to Salei)

- trade flip or hudler

- keep Joey Mac

The lines would be:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Brad Richards ($7.000m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,767,044; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $432,956

Isn't it a dream team??? Up to you guys....

Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

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Kindl and Smith on the 3rd pair is a nightmare actually.

We're not throwing an offer sheet to Weber. And we're not spending that kind of money on a forward (Richards).

And if it's a dream, why would you trade Filppula instead of Hudler?

Edited by Nevermind

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2 solid UFA defensemen, 1 UFA #6/7 dman

Lidstrom - UFA

Kronwall - UFA

Stuart - Kindl/UFA

UFA/Kindl

or

1 very good UFA defenseman, Ericsson, UFA #6/7

Kronwall - UFA

Lidstrom - Ericsson

Stuart - Kindl/UFA

UFA/Kindl

or

1 very good UFA defenseman, Smith, UFA #6/7

Kronwall - UFA

Lidstrom - Smith/Kindl

Stuart - Kindl/Smith

UFA

or 2 good UFA dmen, Smith or Ericsson, UFA #6/7, trade Kindl

Lidstrom - UFA

Kronwall - UFA

Stuart - Smith

UFA

Possibly add a scoring winger to any of those scenarios if cap permits:

Hudler - Datsyuk - Cleary

Franzen - Zetterberg - UFA

Bertuzzi - Filppula - Holmstrom

Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves

Draper/Miller/Emmerton/Whoever

if cap or availability doesn't permit:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Bertuzzi - Filppula - Franzen

Hudler - Helm - Cleary

Emmerton - Abdelkader - Eaves

Draper/Miller/Whoever

Note that one of the UFA d-men can be acquired in a trade rather than UFA if available.

I personally find defense scenario #2 the most realistic and viable, which probably (hopefully) means add a winger as well. However, if Smith impresses enough, I think Kindl moving is the best option if a cup chase is the idea. Wasting Kindl as a #7 isn't good for value, Smith - Kindl pairing would be a train wreck, and Smith and Kindl on different pairings spreads our defense a bit thin unless A: one of Smith or Kindl is amazing, B: the d-man we acquire for top pairing is incredibly good, or preferably C: both.

I also feel:

Kronwall - Stuart

Lidstrom - Smith

UFA - Kindl

is viable if Smith is impressive enough.

Edited by Datsyerberger

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Kindl and Smith on the 3rd pair is a nightmare actually.

We're not throwing an offer sheet to Weber. And we're not spending that kind of money on a forward (Richards).

And if it's a dream, why would you trade Filppula instead of Hudler?

This.... :thumbup:

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blueadams, is that you?

I'm pretty sure it's the same poster from the way they post and from the content, layout and general train of thought of past posts, but either way... here goes -

DRINK!!!!!

:beerbuddy: :chug: :chug: :drunk: :drunk: :beerbuddy:

Edited by stevkrause

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I'm changing this post because when I wrote the old one I was being a total dick. I don't agree with your projected team, I would go so far as to say that I STRONGLY disagree with your ideas about the building of this team. That said, you're probably still a pretty cool dude, and there's probably no reason for me to have replied earlier in the manner I did. See below for the reasons that I disagree with your projected lineup, and have a good one Berry.

Edited by kipwinger
stevkrause likes this

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1. It is not a very good long term strategy for you to have over half your cap space tied up in five players.

2. It is a TERRIBLE strategy to have two rookies for a third defensive pairing, something that you've suggested here, and would probably be unavoidable if you had half your cap space invested in five players.

3. You suggest promoting Jiri Hudler to the first line (which includes 5 or 6 more minutes of ice time) when he was incapable of playing quality defense last year with 5 less minutes of ice time, against third liners instead of first. Tell me how effective he's going to be against Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan or Sedin, Sedin, Burrows or Thornton, Marleau, heatly/setoguchi/clowe. I realize that on the first line Hudler will score more, so will every team we play against.

4. Filpula does play defense, you want to trade him?

5. Your third line of Bertuzzi and Holmstrom is essentially made of two wingers who do the exact same thing on the ice with Helm thrown in the middle for some reason. They are also probably the oldest, slowest, and lowest scoring third line in hockey even with helm (because you've hamstrung him by putting him on the ice with REALLY old, slow, guys).

Conclusion: In the post cap world, you can't just throw a six or seven million dollar all-star into as many positions as you can and expect to be a better team overall. You can't afford it in the long run and still develop talent. You also can't afford it in the short run and have a third or fourth line capable of playing against teams who do develop talent. Ken Holland likes to say that in the post cap world it's about getting more out of the guys that you aren't paying much, rather than paying a bunch for really good guys (obviously not verbatim).

Edited by kipwinger

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Babcock already said what we need...a top pairing defenseman and a top six forward.

More realistic than the OP - Fill in the big blanks with Selanne and Jovanovski. Fill in the 13th forward spot with Eaves, Miller, or Draper. Fill in the backup goalie spot with Osgood, MacDonald, Larsson or Nabakov.

2012 Stanley Cup Champions.

*Selanne*-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Filppula-Cleary

Mursak-Helm-Abdelkader

*Eaves/Miller/Draper*

Lidstrom-*Jovanovski*

Kronwall-Stuart

*Ericsson/Smith*-Kindl

Janik

Howard

*Osgood/MacDonald/Larsson/Nabakov*

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Babcock already said what we need...a top pairing defenseman and a top six forward.

More realistic than the OP - Fill in the big blanks with Selanne and Jovanovski. Fill in the 13th forward spot with Eaves, Miller, or Draper. Fill in the backup goalie spot with Osgood, MacDonald, Larsson or Nabakov.

2012 Stanley Cup Champions.

*Selanne*-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Filppula-Cleary

Mursak-Helm-Abdelkader

*Eaves/Miller/Draper*

Lidstrom-*Jovanovski*

Kronwall-Stuart

*Ericsson/Smith*-Kindl

Janik

Howard

*Osgood/MacDonald/Larsson/Nabakov*

And do what with the remaining ~8 million in cap space?

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I think a better title for this thread would be, "Let's summarize what I want for next season.

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Kindl and Smith on the 3rd pair is a nightmare actually.

We're not throwing an offer sheet to Weber. And we're not spending that kind of money on a forward (Richards).

And if it's a dream, why would you trade Filppula instead of Hudler?

I agree... Weber and Richard will never make the team... too much money. Do not forget that including Lids, we have 20 M to spend.

Flip has proven multiple times that he is not able to play as a 2nd line center (that was Holland's goal). We need a skilled center in order to allow Z and Pav to play together... Huds was great 2 seasons ago.. maybe next year he'll be back in shape.

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Babcock already said what we need...a top pairing defenseman and a top six forward.

More realistic than the OP - Fill in the big blanks with Selanne and Jovanovski. Fill in the 13th forward spot with Eaves, Miller, or Draper. Fill in the backup goalie spot with Osgood, MacDonald, Larsson or Nabakov.

2012 Stanley Cup Champions.

*Selanne*-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Filppula-Cleary

Mursak-Helm-Abdelkader

*Eaves/Miller/Draper*

Lidstrom-*Jovanovski*

Kronwall-Stuart

*Ericsson/Smith*-Kindl

Janik

Howard

*Osgood/MacDonald/Larsson/Nabakov*

replace the much aged and often broken Rafalski, and get stronger and deeper up front by adding the much aged and often broken Selanne and Jovanovski? Am I missing something?

Travis likes this

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replace the much aged and often broken Rafalski, and get stronger and deeper up front by adding the much aged and often broken Selanne and Jovanovski? Am I missing something?

Yeah, I don't know what's up with all the Selanne and Jovanovski love. I understand that they are both talented players, but both are in the twilight of their careers - I really don't think that's the direction the Wings should be going in. They've got a real opportunity to add some youth to the roster. I understand the free agent class is thin, but I'd really hate to see them get older.

13dangledangle likes this

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Yeah, I don't know what's up with all the Selanne and Jovanovski love. I understand that they are both talented players, but both are in the twilight of their careers - I really don't think that's the direction the Wings should be going in. They've got a real opportunity to add some youth to the roster. I understand the free agent class is thin, but I'd really hate to see them get older.

Not to mention the fact that both of those guys cost a lot, and because they are old you can't count on any kind of production over the long run. Jovanovski makes six million dollars and put up 14 pts. in 50 games last year. Why in the hell would you pay him six for that when you could pay Wisniewski, Bieksa, or Erhoff 4.5-5 for 70-82 games and 50 pts. And those guys are all 27-30 years old. Same for Selanne, admittedly he had an awesome season last year, no doubt about it, but the dude is 40 years old. Anybody really want to take a chance that he'll do anything like that again. No to mention the fact that we've already got Holmstrom (38), Bertuzzi (36), Draper (39), Lidstrom (41), Osgood (36), all potentially playing huge roles for next year's team. Or in the case of Lidstrom and Bertuzzi and Holmstom DEFINITELY playing huge roles on next year's team. Now we want to count on Selanne and Jovanovski to be healthy and play a championship level too? Not this guy.

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And do what with the remaining ~8 million in cap space?

Stealing Selanne from ANA wouldn't be cheap.

replace the much aged and often broken Rafalski, and get stronger and deeper up front by adding the much aged and often broken Selanne and Jovanovski? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are, smart arse.

You're missing the complete lack of better options we're going to have in the FA market this off-season.

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Not to mention the fact that both of those guys cost a lot, and because they are old you can't count on any kind of production over the long run. Jovanovski makes six million dollars and put up 14 pts. in 50 games last year. Why in the hell would you pay him six for that when you could pay Wisniewski, Bieksa, or Erhoff 4.5-5 for 70-82 games and 50 pts. And those guys are all 27-30 years old. Same for Selanne, admittedly he had an awesome season last year, no doubt about it, but the dude is 40 years old. Anybody really want to take a chance that he'll do anything like that again. No to mention the fact that we've already got Holmstrom (38), Bertuzzi (36), Draper (39), Lidstrom (41), Osgood (36), all potentially playing huge roles for next year's team. Or in the case of Lidstrom and Bertuzzi and Holmstom DEFINITELY playing huge roles on next year's team. Now we want to count on Selanne and Jovanovski to be healthy and play a championship level too? Not this guy.

How do ppl not understand this!?

Signing a good veteran to a one year contract vs. signing a mediocre young player to a long-term contract.

...In both cases, you get a good player for next year. In one case, you get a shot to replace him with a long-term addition from next season's better FA class. In the other case, you're stuck with the mediocre player and his overpriced salary for the next 5 years.

You tell me, bud. You tell me.

hockey23 likes this

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Sure, Jovo made $6.5M last year, but this year he will be signing somewhere to try for a Cup, his career is winding down fast. Will he get more than $1M? Of course, but he won't get $6.5M again. I would be ok with Holland paying him $2.5M, maybe $3M, but anything more than that, someone will be overpaying him.

Lets summarize: RE-Sign Lids/Miller/Eaves, trade Hudler, sign a top six scoring winger, sign Wiz, sign Jovo and if Ericsson wants more than $2M then let him go and find another UFA d-man for $2M or less...sign a solid, back up goalie... Hire a GREAT defensive coach...Raise 12th Stanley Cup...

Edited by LeftWinger

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...In both cases, you get a good player for next year. In one case, you get a shot to replace him with a long-term addition from next season's better FA class. In the other case, you're stuck with the mediocre player and his overpriced salary for the next 5 years.

Weird, I agree with this guy. He's right, though. Given the crop (or lack thereof) of UFAs this year, it may be better to sign a couple older-but-still-good guys to a 1 year deal than to blow our wads (of cash, obviously) on guys with large holes in their game (Wiz, Pitkanen, etc), spend the longer term bucks next year (when/if) Lidstrom is gone.

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Weird, I agree with this guy. He's right, though. Given the crop (or lack thereof) of UFAs this year, it may be better to sign a couple older-but-still-good guys to a 1 year deal than to blow our wads (of cash, obviously) on guys with large holes in their game (Wiz, Pitkanen, etc), spend the longer term bucks next year (when/if) Lidstrom is gone.

Everyone has holes in their game, nobody is perfect. Regarding Wiz, the positives outweigh the negatives, even if you are counting points, he has gotten better 7, 10, 26, 24, 36, 51 points. But all this talk about untimely penalties and bad penalties, he only topped 100 PIM's once and has only had over 50 one other time, the other years were less than 40. Last season he played the most games he ever played, most minutes on ice and he only had 38 PIM's. 7 of is 10 goals were PP goals. Wiz fills a huge need for the Wings, he is everything that Hollland "says" he needs on the defense. Let's see if he signs him.

I agree with your one year idea, epsecially in the case of Jovo, but more-so in Ericsson, if Ericsson wants that big payday, maybe Holland can convince him to sign a one year $2M with the incentive that if he meets certain totals and goals he will get that larger longer term contract. In Wiz's case, I think he is worth tying up $4M-$4.5M for 3-4 years. Even if Lids retires next season and Holland pursues Suter (if not already re-signed by Nashville) The "D" looks very nice for a few years to come with Stuart, Wiz, Kronner and Suter (hopefully) as the top four, with Kindl and Smith as #'s 5/6. We have the money now, spend it on a few one year contracts and re-load for the long run next off-season when we have even MORE money with Holmstrom and Bertuzzi coming off the books (although it will take a pretty good chunk to re-sign Kronner and Stuart)

Then again, Lids just may come back next year too....

Edited by LeftWinger

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Summary:

Rafalski retired to become closer to god (ohh... that's right... he's old and broken too). Modano retires after not fitting in. Osgood should retire after going almost 2 years (by the time next season comes around) without a single shutout. Lidstrom comes back.

Holland will sign someone 2 weeks after the draft because no one else wanted them. He also potentially trades Big E, Salei, or Hudler for replacements during / shortly after the draft. Miller could be traded too, but I sorta expect him back.

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