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Aaron Rome


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#21 toby91_ca

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:24 PM

I'm well aware of what a charge is and I think they got the call wrong - It sure looked to me like he took more than 3 strides, also, Horton wasn't "watching his pass", he was checking to make sure he was onside and the hit was way later than "just a second" -

If you are well aware of what a charge is, then you know there is nothing in the rule or definition of a charge that says anything about 3 strides, I'm not sure where you are getting that. For fun, let's assume there was some rule about 3 strides, could you point out where in the video Rome took 3 strides to make the hit?

Maybe I'm thinking about a different hit.....the hit I saw has Rome skating backwards as Horton is carrying the puck through the middle of the ice in the neutral zone. Horton passes the puck and then Rome comes to a stop at the blue line to lay the hit on Horton. By my count, there were approximately ZERO strides.

Regarding checking to make sure he was onside....I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on that. He passed the puck ahead to a player receiving it just before the blue line. That player was a few strides ahead of him....there is no possible way he could have ever gone offside, so if he is checking to make sure he stays onside, he doesn't belong in the game of hockey, let alone playing at the NHL level.

Back to the actual suspension....4 games...wow, that surprised me. You have to believe that if it wasn't a star player from the Bruins that got hurt or if it was as star player from the Canucks making the hit, the suspension would have been less.

#22 F.Michael

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:35 PM

It's honestly pathetic that people are taken back so much by this hit. The hit was obviously late but besides it's timing it was a perfect open ice hit. There is a difference between coming from the blindside, and hitting someone head on when they're not paying attention. Should have been an interference penalty and nothing else. Rome led with the shoulder, you can''t punish someone for hitting too hard thats like suspending Datsyuk for stick handling too good. It sucks that Horton got hurt but next time he will be more aware when he is crossing the blue line.

Agreed.

Had this been Konstantinov on Lemieux circa 1997 - we'd all be seriously pissed if Vladdy were suspended.

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#23 Jersey Wing

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:39 PM

I said this last night.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and I'm confident in what I saw. Roam plants hit back leg and lunges forward, late, at Horton's head and neck area. He wasn't just skating along, he coiled a bit. I'm still saying this year and I'll amend my 40 games next year to 20, but this hit, TO ME, was particularly bad.

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#24 stevkrause

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:48 PM

It's unfortunate that you're so blindly attached to your point to the extent that you're willing to ignore clear video evidence. Horton kept his eyes on Lucic after making the pass. He was not attempting to ensure that he was still onside; he was watching Lucic, and in any event, Lucic had already entered the zone and was ahead of him. Further--in case you somehow weren't aware of this--hockey players need to keep their heads up.



Everyone in the hockey analysis world disagrees with your claim that it was a violation of rule 48.



Given that you're now insulting those who disagree with you, I think you're looking more for agreement with your ranting and less for any sort of actual discussion.



Note the portion in bold. That's why this suspension occurred. If Horton had fallen differently and not been injured, there would have been no suspension. If Horton had been injured and it had been Bieksa laying the hit, there would have been perhaps a one-game suspension. But since it's a depth defenseman who injured a star player, it's a long suspension.

Well, whatever.

I already said earlier in this thread that I may have gone over the top suggesting it carry over AND I think they got it right with what they handed out...

I've been playing hockey for over 23 years, but the reason players need to keep their heads up, is to protect themselves - This does not exonerate someone who threw a dirty hit, because the receiving player didn't follow the golden rule.

Specifically to rule 48, fine, that very specific rule, with its wording, does not apply here. It doesn't mean that it wasn't still a play that needs to be removed and/or isn't directly connected to that exact type of play...

There's no way Horton wasn't getting hurt on that hit - moot point.

Regardless of which side you're on, the league got the discipline on this one right.

Agreed.

Had this been Konstantinov on Lemieux circa 1997 - we'd all be seriously pissed if Vladdy were suspended.

different league, different rules - learn to evolve and play within them, simple as that.

If you are well aware of what a charge is, then you know there is nothing in the rule or definition of a charge that says anything about 3 strides, I'm not sure where you are getting that. For fun, let's assume there was some rule about 3 strides, could you point out where in the video Rome took 3 strides to make the hit?

Maybe I'm thinking about a different hit.....the hit I saw has Rome skating backwards as Horton is carrying the puck through the middle of the ice in the neutral zone. Horton passes the puck and then Rome comes to a stop at the blue line to lay the hit on Horton. By my count, there were approximately ZERO strides.

Regarding checking to make sure he was onside....I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on that. He passed the puck ahead to a player receiving it just before the blue line. That player was a few strides ahead of him....there is no possible way he could have ever gone offside, so if he is checking to make sure he stays onside, he doesn't belong in the game of hockey, let alone playing at the NHL level.

Back to the actual suspension....4 games...wow, that surprised me. You have to believe that if it wasn't a star player from the Bruins that got hurt or if it was as star player from the Canucks making the hit, the suspension would have been less.

The more I watch the video, the more I can see your argument on the charge, there are 2 clear strides (backwards, or forwards, each distinct motion still counts) but the 3rd one is murky... I'll admit when I'm wrong and on this account, I may be - however, I disagree completely on the "watching the pass" BS, you can even see Horton check the line and the linesman as he enters... he was in a helpless position and that hit needs to be given up, no matter how you cut it.

Back to the suspension as well - they got it right, period. The one area the league needs to improve upon is consistency, because I agree that had it not been a star, it probably wouldn't have been so harsh, and that's wrong - The same rules, should apply to all players.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#25 evilzyme

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:02 PM

I've seen Kronner hit harder and have the same effect on people. Not to say Kronner should be suspended for a lot of his open ice hits but come on now, some of y'all need to take your homer blinders off. That hit wasn't as bad as it seemed, watch the replay. If it wasn't for the injury and stretcher which was most likely to prevent any worst conditions, I doubt this would be looked at just like many other members have stated.

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#26 dteowner

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:04 PM

It took me several views of the clip to really get a good handle on what happened, and I've got to admit I've switched sides because of it. First off, the 3 stride thing mentioned in the thread is wrong. Rome took 2 "steps" to come to a halt and then drove (kinda jumped) into Horton. No strides at all. Second, it's pretty borderline to call it a blindside hit. I understand "blindside" to mean something roughly perpendicular to the shoulders. Rome comes in at a 45. If Horton is looking forward instead of admiring his pass, he sees Rome coming. That's not blindside. The point of impact looks to be something close to shoulder-to-collarbone, so I'm not sure you can even say it's a blow to the head. Horton probably took more damage from bouncing the back of his head off the ice than the actual hit, but that's certainly conjecture.

The puck's long gone, so it's interference. We've seen 5 minute interference calls, and this one probably qualifies given the nastiness. So we've got that. The hit is undeniably illegal.

Add it all up and you've got an illegal hit (which negates any Chara comparisons), and you could spin a pretty good case for "intent to injure". Although it's not "right", you've got a scrub taking out a star, which will tip the scales some. I come up with 1 game, maybe 2 max. 4 games seems excessive to me.

#27 F.Michael

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:08 PM

different league, different rules - learn to evolve and play within them, simple as that.

I beg to differ - with an exception on the rules.

Playoff hockey has always been fast paced - hard hitting - intense hockey...It's that way today as it was years ago.

This is/was my concern when the whole cracking down on head shots began; not that it doesn't have it's merits, but when a good number of impartial viewers such as myself see this as a clean hit (albeit a tad late - hence the intereference pen) yet an injury had occurred - there'll be the looming chance of a suspension.

Wasn't blindsided, wasn't from behind, no charging...If an injury hadn't taken place we wwouldn't be having this discussion...The league is suspending Rome more for the injury than the hit IMO.

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#28 stevkrause

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:12 PM

I beg to differ - with an exception on the rules.

Playoff hockey has always been fast paced - hard hitting - intense hockey...It's that way today as it was years ago.

This is/was my concern when the whole cracking down on head shots began; not that it doesn't have it's merits, but when a good number of impartial viewers such as myself see this as a clean hit (albeit a tad late - hence the intereference pen) yet an injury had occurred - there'll be the looming chance of a suspension.

Wasn't blindsided, wasn't from behind, no charging...If an injury hadn't taken place we wwouldn't be having this discussion...The league is suspending Rome more for the injury than the hit IMO.

you're probably right about the reasoning behind the suspension, but I don't think it makes this hit any more "ok"... it was a dirty hit and warranted the punishment it got.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#29 jeff48109

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:14 PM

It took me several views of the clip to really get a good handle on what happened, and I've got to admit I've switched sides because of it. First off, the 3 stride thing mentioned in the thread is wrong. Rome took 2 "steps" to come to a halt and then drove (kinda jumped) into Horton. No strides at all. Second, it's pretty borderline to call it a blindside hit. I understand "blindside" to mean something roughly perpendicular to the shoulders. Rome comes in at a 45. If Horton is looking forward instead of admiring his pass, he sees Rome coming. That's not blindside. The point of impact looks to be something close to shoulder-to-collarbone, so I'm not sure you can even say it's a blow to the head. Horton probably took more damage from bouncing the back of his head off the ice than the actual hit, but that's certainly conjecture.

The puck's long gone, so it's interference. We've seen 5 minute interference calls, and this one probably qualifies given the nastiness. So we've got that. The hit is undeniably illegal.

Add it all up and you've got an illegal hit (which negates any Chara comparisons), and you could spin a pretty good case for "intent to injure". Although it's not "right", you've got a scrub taking out a star, which will tip the scales some. I come up with 1 game, maybe 2 max. 4 games seems excessive to me.


that's what i think too. i don't think the head bore the brunt of the hit, and it was the head bouncing off the ice that probably did more damage, which can happen even from a clean hit. i'm not suggesting that this hit is clean, but he definitely was late. it's a late hit with really bad consequences.

i'm wondering if this may or may not move the league closer to banning all hits to the head. i remember reading an article where Lidstrom he isn't in favor of that, because then you'd have players just skating with their heads down all the time.

#30 F.Michael

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:15 PM

you're probably right about the reasoning behind the suspension, but I don't think it makes this hit any more "ok"... it was a dirty hit and warranted the punishment it got.

Well - this is where you - me - and others agree to disagree ;)

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#31 taxijim

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:20 PM

To me thats just a late,late hit.....the puck was way up the side boards & Horton had nothing to do with the play anymore. I feel if they would have severely punished these types of hits earlier in the last few years there would be a lot fewer concussed players today.....once a guy gets rid of the puck he is out of the play & it shouldn't be open season on him.....most of Scott Stevens hits were of this nature & it should have been stopped then,instead of being praised. Now a lot of key players are getting concussions & a lot of them never return to their original selves on the ice. I like a hard hit as much as the next guy, but these Torres kinda hits have to be stopped or the game will become like UFC in nature.

#32 Mitchmac33

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:21 PM

you're probably right about the reasoning behind the suspension, but I don't think it makes this hit any more "ok"... it was a dirty hit and warranted the punishment it got.


I'm gonna have to agree. It doesn't matter what the reason the NHL suspended him, either for the hit or the injury. They go hand in hand for me. Rome makes an illegal hit which knocks Horton out of the playoffs, he deserves to miss as well. People are saying, "well if horton was looking forward..." But I've yet to see someone flip it. Had Rome not stepped up and made a late hit, none of this is going on either.

#33 Din758

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:24 PM

I think the league got it right. Clear violation of the rule.

Eventhough most of you wont agree with this next statement, I believe it is OK to take Rome out for the rest of the playoffs as he is not an impact player for VAN and he will be easily replaced by your pick of the remaining Van D-men. This suspension also protects Rome himself against retaliation and possible injury to himself. Rome doesnt seem like a bad guy, just a fast play in a fast game.

I just cant wait for next season when Shanny is calling the shots, then I wont have to read the countless threads on s***ty disciplinary rulings on LGW as Im sure most of you will be more supportive of Shanny than Campbell.
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#34 F.Michael

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:26 PM

To me thats just a late,late hit.....the puck was way up the side boards & Horton had nothing to do with the play anymore. I feel if they would have severely punished these types of hits earlier in the last few years there would be a lot fewer concussed players today.....once a guy gets rid of the puck he is out of the play & it shouldn't be open season on him.....most of Scott Stevens hits were of this nature & it should have been stopped then,instead of being praised. Now a lot of key players are getting concussions & a lot of them never return to their original selves on the ice. I like a hard hit as much as the next guy, but these Torres kinda hits have to be stopped or the game will become like UFC in nature.

2 things...

Reduce the size of both the shoulder, and elbow pads thus making them resemble what players wore in the 1970's/1980's.

Hip checking needs to make a strong comeback (although we'll most likely see a sharp increase in knee injuries).

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#35 stevkrause

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:29 PM

Well - this is where you - me - and others agree to disagree ;)

fair enough and in all honesty, if this hit takes place in the neutral zone, I'd be more in agreement with your line of thought... granted, I'd still think it was a questionable hit, but not dirty, but entering the zone is a very vulnerable position when you don't have the puck, as you are forced to pay attention to so many other variables(stay onside, make sure the puck isn't turned over and you have to go the other way real quick, where the play is going, whether the puck is getting dumped, or carried deeper, etc...)

On any note, I personally think the league got it right and as touched on earlier, I really wish they'd apply the same rules to all players, regardless of their star status...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#36 Vladifan

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:33 PM

I added this to the game thread, but I think it fits pretty much here too.

http://www.vancouver...3011/story.html

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#37 stevkrause

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:33 PM

2 things...

Reduce the size of both the shoulder, and elbow pads thus making them resemble what players wore in the 1970's/1980's.

Hip checking needs to make a strong comeback (although we'll most likely see a sharp increase in knee injuries).

Now these 2 points, you and I could not agree on more!

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#38 deadlakes

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 02:18 PM

What an absolute joke he got 4 games for the hit. Horton shouldnt have been admiring his pass. Horton had his head down. Not a blindside hit. 2 minutes for interference. Thats it.

#39 esteef

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 02:20 PM

Horton knows the d are back so how the hell does he not look up? I guess he assumed the d were backing up into the zone. Plus I think he was looking to maybe get a pass back from Lucic right away and not so much looking to be onsides or admiring his pass. A little late maybe but it's really hard to see if contact was to the head or not. Looks like another case of injury determining punishment. Oh well...

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#40 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 02:28 PM

Horton was watching his own pass. His head was up, he was skating forward, and he was watching the player he'd just passed to. Rome's hit was late by only a second, perhaps even a bit less. The hit wasn't from Horton's blindside, and it wasn't a hit to Horton's head. The damage was done by the manner in which Horton hit the ice.

The penalty was for interference. It was not a charge. A charge is when a player takes more than three strides toward another before hitting the latter. Watch the replay.

In any event, Rome has no history of suspension, and because the hit didn't violate the blindside rule and wasn't a hit to the head, I doubt he'll get more than one game. That Horton got so badly injured is just bad luck; many players have taken that hit and gotten back up.

You don't think it was from the blindside? To me it looked like a lateral blindside hit where the head was the principal point of contact.


As I said another thread, this is a situation where Horton was watching his pass, but because he's about to gain the zone he's likely watching to stay onsides. When the pass is on his teammate's stick, you can see Horton start to accelerate into the zone. Yes he should've had better awareness, but this isn't as simple as "keep your head up kid." He's trying to stay onside and the hit was late. As Doug Weight said, after the puck is gone like that you start to relax and make the next move.

Horton knows the d are back so how the hell does he not look up? I guess he assumed the d were backing up into the zone. Plus I think he was looking to maybe get a pass back from Lucic right away and not so much looking to be onsides or admiring his pass. A little late maybe but it's really hard to see if contact was to the head or not. Looks like another case of injury determining punishment. Oh well...

esteef

With the video review they counted it at 29 frames after the puck leaves Horton's stick. 30 frames of video is a full second. The NHL apparently uses up to a half a second as a sort of buffer as to what's not late.

2 things...

Reduce the size of both the shoulder, and elbow pads thus making them resemble what players wore in the 1970's/1980's.

Hip checking needs to make a strong comeback (although we'll most likely see a sharp increase in knee injuries).

Absolutely agree.

Shanny should make guys where shoulder pads like his. :P

You shouldn't see knee injuries as long as the guys do it right and don't go Lebda submarine style.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 07 June 2011 - 02:25 PM.






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