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#61 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:39 PM

Horton was watching his pass. As others have mentioned, he had passed forward to Lucic. If Lucic wasn't offside, then Horton certainly wasn't. And he wasn't in a helpless position--and note that players are often in helpless positions when they are hit legally--but rather simply took the hit far harder than he would otherwise because he stopped being aware of his surroundings. All hockey players must be aware of what's going on around them, else they risk being crushed. Had Horton seen the hit coming, chances are high that he would have taken it much more smoothly.


Great point. If someone isn't paying full attention to their surroundings I can hurt them. I'll have to remember that next time I'm driving near pedestrians. I mean sure I could have stopped in time but that chick crossing the street could have looked up too, so whatevs, am I right? :lol:
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#62 Barrie

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:15 PM

Good move by the NHL on the suspension.

Also I still can't believe there's people who say, "_____ didn't have their head up". Watch the replay, Horton was watching his winger, trying to stay onside, and preparing his next move to try and score a goal, he was playing the game. Hitting people when they are in a vulnerable position is not.

I heard something interesting today that the people who say, "players should keep their heads ups" are the ones who are making these life altering hits.
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#63 Crymson

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:19 PM

I can't believe Canucks fans are whining about a schlub like Rome being suspended. He severely concussed Boston's 2nd best forward on a pretty late hit. Horton had his head down so he won't get many sympathy cards for that.

The big point here is that it was a vicious hit to a defenceless player's head and the league's made it clear they want to eliminate those hits. Horton's got brain damage now. The long term effects may be mild but don't doubt that concussions like this can have long term repercussions.


The hit was to the area of the collarbone. It was the impact on the ice that gave Horton the concussion.

#64 plopster

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:20 PM

All I can say is what if that were Datsyuk on the ice....
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#65 Crymson

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:23 PM

Good move by the NHL on the suspension.

Also I still can't believe there's people who say, "_____ didn't have their head up". Watch the replay, Horton was watching his winger, trying to stay onside, and preparing his next move to try and score a goal, he was playing the game. Hitting people when they are in a vulnerable position is not.

I heard something interesting today that the people who say, "players should keep their heads ups" are the ones who are making these life altering hits.


Most big hits occur when players are in vulnerable positions. If a player is not in a vulnerable position, it is difficult to lay a big hit on him.

Horton was watching the play, yes, and trying to plan his next move, yes, but that doesn't make him immune to being hit. It's the job of all hockey players to (when they have the puck and soon after getting rid of it) both track the play and track their surroundings to avoid being crushed.

All I can say is what if that were Datsyuk on the ice....


We've been in this situation before. Remember Pronger in 2007?

In any event, I'm sure we'd be furious. It's much harder to be objective when it's a player from one's own team who is the victim.

Great point. If someone isn't paying full attention to their surroundings I can hurt them. I'll have to remember that next time I'm driving near pedestrians. I mean sure I could have stopped in time but that chick crossing the street could have looked up too, so whatevs, am I right? :lol:


Oh, give me a break. This is hockey, not a neighborhood. The hit was late, yes. But if it had been made one second earlier or when Horton had the puck, it'd have been completely legal, and it would have been Horton's fault for not keeping his head on a swivel.

#66 chrisdetroit

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:46 PM

Problem is, 4 games in the SCF is unprecedented. Certainly, the hit deserved a suspension. A game or 2 ok, but the remainder of the playoffs? Has it been done before? The league looks stupid because the suspensions seem to be arbitrary. If they want to crack down, fine. They should ramp up the level of suspensions but to go from what 1 game or zero games in the last hit like this to 4.

It makes no sense. And I am NOT defending the hit or the guy. I am questioning the way the league hands down suspensions.

Great point. If someone isn't paying full attention to their surroundings I can hurt them. I'll have to remember that next time I'm driving near pedestrians. I mean sure I could have stopped in time but that chick crossing the street could have looked up too, so whatevs, am I right? :lol:


Life is a little bit different than a hockey game. The guys on the ice know that they can hit or be hit. You are not seriously comparing a hockey game to running over a chick on the road are you?
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#67 Crymson

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:04 PM

Problem is, 4 games in the SCF is unprecedented. Certainly, the hit deserved a suspension. A game or 2 ok, but the remainder of the playoffs? Has it been done before? The league looks stupid because the suspensions seem to be arbitrary. If they want to crack down, fine. They should ramp up the level of suspensions but to go from what 1 game or zero games in the last hit like this to 4.

It makes no sense. And I am NOT defending the hit or the guy. I am questioning the way the league hands down suspensions.


Rome is a scrub who hit a star, so he's eligible for higher suspensions. When Chara hit Pacioretty, he was a star hitting a scrub, and that's probably why he got no suspension. If Chara had laid down this hit on Higgins, he'd have gotten one game.

It's not like it'll matter anyway. Ballard is waiting in the wings, and perhaps Hamhuis will return.

Edited by Crymson, 07 June 2011 - 06:04 PM.


#68 e_prime

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:10 PM

I can think of one thing that we all agree on: The league needs to fix this. One way or the other.

I feel like the league piece-mealed Rule 48 together to placate the masses.
Concussions and such have leapt to the forefront of everyone's minds, so as a league let's make sure it seems like we're doing something.


48.1 Illegal Check to the Head A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principal point of contact is not permitted.


Why can't we just ban checks to the head? Would that be so wrong?

Hit a guy in the head whether it be non-intentionally or purposeful and you get a major.
Sort out the severity of intention... have an off-ice official review the hit.
(Either the way that goals are reviewed or an additional official trained to make these types of calls. You've got five minutes, bub. Make it good.)

If the contact with the head was not the principal point of contact the player returns to the ice after serving the major.
If the contact with the head is deemed the principal point of contact the player receives a game misconduct and is subject to supplemental discipline.

(Of course, supplemental discipline is a completely different beast. ;) )

Note: I'm assuming that you all understand what I mean by this which is different than a player being hit in the head in a different circumstance. Example: Player A goes to deliver a hit, Player B lowers his lowers his head or extends his body out causing the head to be hit.

EDIT: I'll try to dig up some video to support what I mean.

Problem is, 4 games in the SCF is unprecedented. Certainly, the hit deserved a suspension. A game or 2 ok, but the remainder of the playoffs? Has it been done before? The league looks stupid because the suspensions seem to be arbitrary. If they want to crack down, fine. They should ramp up the level of suspensions but to go from what 1 game or zero games in the last hit like this to 4.

It makes no sense. And I am NOT defending the hit or the guy. I am questioning the way the league hands down suspensions.


Well... I hope Shanny's ready to do some work. 'Cuz I think we'd all like that answer. :ph34r:

Edited by e_prime, 07 June 2011 - 06:15 PM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#69 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

The hit was to the area of the collarbone. It was the impact on the ice that gave Horton the concussion.

There's no way you or anyone can really have any idea as to what exactly gave Horton the concussion.

Bert got one by turning his head and hitting his chin as he ran into Heatley.

When you get hit that hard and your brain gets rattled that much, the hit alone and head snap certainly could've caused it as much as the impact to the ice.

#70 Vladifan

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:36 PM

The hit was to the area of the collarbone. It was the impact on the ice that gave Horton the concussion.


You say your responses are objective. How do you know that the impact from the ice gave him the concussion? You don't. You are making an assumption that cannot be proven.

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#71 sleepwalker

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:38 PM

Problem is, 4 games in the SCF is unprecedented. Certainly, the hit deserved a suspension. A game or 2 ok, but the remainder of the playoffs? Has it been done before? The league looks stupid because the suspensions seem to be arbitrary. If they want to crack down, fine. They should ramp up the level of suspensions but to go from what 1 game or zero games in the last hit like this to 4.

It makes no sense. And I am NOT defending the hit or the guy. I am questioning the way the league hands down suspensions.



Life is a little bit different than a hockey game. The guys on the ice know that they can hit or be hit. You are not seriously comparing a hockey game to running over a chick on the road are you?


Of course he is, lol. Why not? These Stanley Cup final threads just seem to be a magnet for idiotic comparison. Hell, just the other day we had someone compare Burrows little finger bite to rape and pedophilia...

Edited by sleepwalker, 07 June 2011 - 06:40 PM.


#72 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:02 PM

All I can see is that the NHL is now handing out suspensions based the result of a particular action. The hit was late...I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. It's interference, that's all. The problem is that there was an unfortunate outcome to that hit. If Horton would have stood up and continued the game, there would have been only a penalty. I don't agree with any statement that calls for and/or supports a suspension. Although he is hurt, Horton was partly to blame for the incident because, as was stated by others here, he should have been paying more attention to what was going on. Hockey is a tough sport...at least it used to be. If the league fills up with a bunch of ******* that are looking for protection from the rule book, there will be more injuries than anyone can count. Just because head shots are the new concentration point, they are not going away. You still have to watch and protect yourself. And, no, I'm not defending head shots. Slashing, tripping, cross checking and holding still result in a penalty, but they still happen. The NHL, I believe, went with political correctness in their crack down on head shots. Now, they are bowing to public pressure to punish those who injure others, whether intentional or not. Some players need to put on their big girl panties and realize what sport they are playing. This is not the NBA, folks.
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#73 Datsyerberger

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:36 PM

Decided I'd illustrate this:

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A: Horton is entering the neutral zone and examining his options, Rome is just ahead of the red line, skating back into defensive position. Ho-hum

B: Horton looks over at his winger option, sees him opening up along the boards. He accelerates a little to the left as he enters the circle to put him more squarely between the 2 Nucks d-men. Rome still chugging along. He's ready to pass. The dotted black line indicates the direction in which Horton's head is turned.

C: At this point, the puck is coming off Horton's stick. He keeps his eye on his winger in preparation to accelerate, making sure he'll be onsides. Rome, meanwhile, is just starting to adjust his stride, away from position (one that will put him between the net and Horton as well as leave him open to cover his side on a dump in) and on a course that will take him across the blue line, towards his partner. The yellow lines indicate Horton's likely field of vision.

D: Horton is just starting his stride and turning his head back towards the middle of the ice. Rome is adjusting himself and is starting his lateral movement.

E: At this point, Horton is probably 2-3 steps into his acceleration. Rome is on roughly his second lateral stride. Rome is just outside of Horton's vision, on his blindside. If Horton notices him at all, it's in his peripheral and he hasn't really figured out what's going on yet. The black lines indicate they're both accelerating.

F: Point where contact begins. At this point, Rome has both adjusted his skating and then made two strong lateral pushes plus another stride or two worth of gliding east-west into Horton's path. Horton has taken 3 strides, in the middle of #4, probably noticing Rome far too late as he enters his vision. Contact is made more or less with the full of Rome's body into Horton's left chest/collar bone area. The green line indicates Rome's overall trajectory during this sequence.


So there are multiple things in play here. Horton is reasonably safe; he assessed Rome's position, looked over to make his pass, kept his head up a moment to check onsides. In that moment, Rome slid into his blindside and began to adjust his own stride. Horton glides a couple steps' worth at this point, then begins to accelerate as he begins to turn his head back. At this point, he figures he's safe as he's already glided a couple strides worth after his pass, Rome wasn't close enough to make contact at this point. Horton begins to accelerate forwards as his vision returns to the middle of the ice, but doesn't notice Rome as Rome is fully in his blindside at this point. Rome's lateral steps begin not only after the puck has left Horton's stick, but after Horton's glided a little. Their accelerations begin at roughly the same point. By the time they make contact, Horton has made 3 to 4 accelerating strides and Rome has made an adjustment, 2 lateral strides and another 1-2 strides worth of gliding as he braces for the hit, moving fully east-west by the time of contact.

Ultimately, Rome creeps into Horton's blindside and begins to accelerate towards Horton well after the puck is off Horton's stick. Horton begins to accelerate, the puck at his winger by now and Rome is just beginning his own stride at that point. He has another stride or two plus a little more distance worth of gliding to decide to ease up on the hit, though he's already put himself in a stride that will bring him out of position. Probably subconsciously realizing he's already begun to take himself out of position, he continues accelerating towards Horton even though Horton has traversed most of the Canucks half of the neutral zone since releasing the puck. Even though Horton's vision returns, at this point Rome is well into his blindside and Horton doesn't likely see him until it's too late to do anything. Not only does Rome not back off the hit, but he even puts follow through into it.

This play contains:

1. East-west blindside hit, though it wasn't targeting the head, it was a blindside that caused injury.

2. Extremely late, not enough so to be totally away from the play but well after the puck is gone from Horton.

3. Possible charging, as Rome accelerates laterally into the hit and towards Horton. There's no doubt he did so with intent of violent contact.

4. Possible headhunting, or at least very stupid decision making, as Rome put himself out of position to make this hit and followed through either because he realized he'd put himself in a dumb spot, or because his intent was to demolish Horton.

5. Resulting injury. Unbraced contact at high speed, the very likely concussion was probably sustained at impact due to the sudden G force acceleration and whiplash, rather than when he hit the ice (he was probably already out by that point). Doesn't really help matters with the above 4 conditions.

All of this adds up to a long suspension. I think the NHL got it right.
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#74 ENuck

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:59 PM

I can't believe Canucks fans are whining about a schlub like Rome being suspended. He severely concussed Boston's 2nd best forward on a pretty late hit. Horton had his head down so he won't get many sympathy cards for that.

The big point here is that it was a vicious hit to a defenceless player's head and the league's made it clear they want to eliminate those hits. Horton's got brain damage now. The long term effects may be mild but don't doubt that concussions like this can have long term repercussions.


Horton was not defenseless, his head should have been up and aware of his surroundings after he made the pass. Horton seem to get hurt when his head hit the ice not from the actual hit which seemed to start from the upper body up to the chin - Rome had barely a second a full lateral speed to change course. Let's also not forget also it all began with Thornton chirping relentlessly at Rome on the bench. A one game suspension would have been acceptable, and it would be a shame that a player who has no history of head hunting or intending to inflict serious injury on opponents could miss an opportunity to celebrate every NHL players dream moment with his teammates. Rome's hit was late.

btw I had no idea Horton has been diagnosed with brain damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlUPYZo02YE
All said I hope there are no long term effects to Horton.

#75 number9

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:00 PM

Great point. If someone isn't paying full attention to their surroundings I can hurt them. I'll have to remember that next time I'm driving near pedestrians. I mean sure I could have stopped in time but that chick crossing the street could have looked up too, so whatevs, am I right? :lol:


....no

#76 Never_Retire_Steve

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:18 PM

I don't really understand rule 48. I mean to me these are the hits that are dangerous, it is clearly from Horton's "blindside" and caused an injury. Is this not what the rule was put in place to prevent? I agree with a lot of you saying that it really wasn't that bad of a hit but to me these are the types of hits that the NHL is trying to get rid of to protect the players.


#77 Mitchmac33

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:05 PM

Problem is, 4 games in the SCF is unprecedented. Certainly, the hit deserved a suspension. A game or 2 ok, but the remainder of the playoffs? Has it been done before? The league looks stupid because the suspensions seem to be arbitrary. If they want to crack down, fine. They should ramp up the level of suspensions but to go from what 1 game or zero games in the last hit like this to 4.

It makes no sense. And I am NOT defending the hit or the guy. I am questioning the way the league hands down suspensions.



I think part of the reason they made such a stand on this is because they missed suspending burrows. They miss that and he goes out and pots 2 goals including the ot winner. I think they are definitely trying to compensate for that. But I do think they suspension length is worthy.

#78 Datsyerberger

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:44 PM

I think part of the reason they made such a stand on this is because they missed suspending burrows. They miss that and he goes out and pots 2 goals including the ot winner. I think they are definitely trying to compensate for that. But I do think they suspension length is worthy.


Not only that, but new group trying to make a new impression. They may be trying to send the message "we won't not suspend you just because it's the playoffs". I hope that's the case, and I also hope they go for "we won't not suspend you just because you're a star player or an important player on a star's team".
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#79 eva unit zero

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 12:08 AM

I agree with you on this. Yes it was a tad late..barely. was not a shot to the head. I think some people need to "re-watch" the video a little more close and not have the hate on for the nucks when watching. I think if any 1-2 games...thats it. But thats just me.

well there you go. 4 games.


You need to watch the video again. Rome hits Horton in the head or at least very close to the head, in a manner which suggests that he was targeting the head. 4 games is just fine. Bruins should be happy he got anything, though, given their previous arguments this season about what suspensions should be for head hunting.

It's honestly pathetic that people are taken back so much by this hit. The hit was obviously late but besides it's timing it was a perfect open ice hit. There is a difference between coming from the blindside, and hitting someone head on when they're not paying attention. Should have been an interference penalty and nothing else. Rome led with the shoulder, you can''t punish someone for hitting too hard thats like suspending Datsyuk for stick handling too good. It sucks that Horton got hurt but next time he will be more aware when he is crossing the blue line.


Hitting someone hard head on is fine. What Rome did is hit Horton from the blind side, completely east-west hit while Horton was moving north-south. He also targeted Horton's head, and hit him well after Horton had passed the puck.


I hope Rome comes back and makes another sweet hit like that.Glad someone is keeping the old school hockey spirit alive.Horton should keep his head up.


The hit was illegal. However, Horton made it far worse on himself by completely zoning out. This is uncharacteristic of a hockey player to do, because they know that it will often lead to them being freight-trained.


You two seriously need to learn how to play hockey. I get that you like watching huge hits, but that's not a good hit. That's an illegal hit, and an unsafe hit. Even if Horton has his head up and looking forward, he's just looped around the neutral zone and he's barely moving at that point, so Rome still wastes him.

It was not charging. Not a chance.


He jumped into the hit. That's TEXTBOOK charging.

Horton was watching his pass. As others have mentioned, he had passed forward to Lucic. If Lucic wasn't offside, then Horton certainly wasn't. And he wasn't in a helpless position--and note that players are often in helpless positions when they are hit legally--but rather simply took the hit far harder than he would otherwise because he stopped being aware of his surroundings. All hockey players must be aware of what's going on around them, else they risk being crushed. Had Horton seen the hit coming, chances are high that he would have taken it much more smoothly.


Horton was in a helpless position regardless of whether he was looking at Rome, Lucic, or the hot dog guy. Sometimes a guy just gets flattened. And if the hit is late, and to the head, it might cause injury, and it might get a guy suspended.
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#80 jollymania

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 01:57 AM

The people using the word blindside in this thread are ridiculous, they should put a word in the rule called peripheral vision to help people who haven't played figure out that just because a guy comes across to hit another doesn't mean if their head is up they cant see the guy. One of the first things I was taught in hockey was to use my peripheral vision to avoid hits. When they come from the angle Cooke did, then yes that is blindside, but when the guy making the hit comes BLATANTLY form in front of a guy, if they have their head up they will see him.
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