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10/11 Hockeyfights.com awards voting...


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#21 e_prime

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:27 PM

I'll never understand you folk that don't get the idea that the Wings could use a guy who'll drop the gloves with some regularity during the season. One guy taking a penalty here and there while giving the opposing team something to think about when it comes to taking liberties with our players certainly isn't going to cost us in the win column. AND HELL, I'm not even talking about a guy that JUST fights.

Hell, I'll even throw this little nugget out there for you to ponder over.

Seguin is healthy scratched last night in favor of Thorton. Sure, he might not be on the scorers sheet in the way of points... but I tell you what... his presence was felt and it certainly helped spark some team-mates and get some opposing players off their game.
QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#22 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:53 PM

I'll never understand you folk that don't get the idea that the Wings could use a guy who'll drop the gloves with some regularity during the season. One guy taking a penalty here and there while giving the opposing team something to think about when it comes to taking liberties with our players certainly isn't going to cost us in the win column. AND HELL, I'm not even talking about a guy that JUST fights.

Hell, I'll even throw this little nugget out there for you to ponder over.

Seguin is healthy scratched last night in favor of Thorton. Sure, he might not be on the scorers sheet in the way of points... but I tell you what... his presence was felt and it certainly helped spark some team-mates and get some opposing players off their game.

I think a lot of it is because some of the posters on here only watch the Wings. While this is fine, I don't see how someone can make a valid argument for or against an enforcer if they don't watch the other 29 teams in the league outside of their games with the Wings.

#23 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:07 PM

Anyone else disappointed with D.J. King? In the first couple years coming out of the lockout, he was arguably one of the better scrappers in the NHL. He looked like a shell of his former self this past season. I doubt Washington keeps him around.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 07 June 2011 - 09:07 PM.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#24 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:21 PM

Wooooooo no enforcement!!! :drunk: :colorbounce:

#25 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:04 PM

Anyone else disappointed with D.J. King? In the first couple years coming out of the lockout, he was arguably one of the better scrappers in the NHL. He looked like a shell of his former self this past season. I doubt Washington keeps him around.


Freak injuries have ruined his career.

This guy was well on his way to being top dog in the NHL.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#26 Shaman

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:29 PM

How many of the recent cups have come without an enforcer on the team? I'll save you the time- the answer is zero.

To continue in this vain:

How many of the recent cups (in the last ten years) have come without Hasek on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won when they have had a GF-GA differential under +50? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without McCarty on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without Maltby on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since Pronger moved to the eastern conference? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since the Coyotes started to play good hockey consistently? Zero

How many cups have the wings won recently when they have not played exactly 6 games in the first round? Zero



Not to teach anyone here any science, but theres an old saying: "Correlation does not imply causation"

Edited by Shaman464, 07 June 2011 - 10:31 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#27 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:38 PM

To continue in this vain:

How many of the recent cups (in the last ten years) have come without Hasek on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won when they have had a GF-GA differential under +50? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without McCarty on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won recently without Maltby on the team? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since Pronger moved to the eastern conference? Zero

How many cups have the Wings won since the Coyotes started to play good hockey consistently? Zero

How many cups have the wings won recently when they have not played exactly 6 games in the first round? Zero



Not to teach anyone here any science, but theres an old saying: "Correlation does not imply causation"

If you've read my posts concerning this topic before, I have never implied causation. The post was in response to a poster saying the Wings had the most cups despite being the worst enforcing team. I intended the comment to be slightly ridiculous because the poster's claim was ridiculous.

I think most posters here can see I wasn't implying the Wings need an enforcer, especially if you see my first post in this thread. Now you obviously are anti-enforcer and only enter these threads to pick away at pro-enforcer arguments. What is your view on the subject of worst enforcing team?

Edit- I don't want bring up science, but my post was using a counter-example to disprove the claim implied by the poster. Therefore, showing the Wings weren't the worst enforcing team in the years they won the cup is sufficient to disprove the implied claim that the Wings win the most cups while having the worst enforcing team.

Edited by WorkingOvertime, 07 June 2011 - 10:53 PM.


#28 Shaman

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:43 PM

If you've read my posts concerning this topic before, I have never implied causation. The post was in response to a poster saying the Wings had the most cups despite being the worst enforcing team. I intended the comment to be slightly ridiculous because the poster's claim was ridiculous.

I think most posters here can see I wasn't implying the Wings need an enforcer, especially if you see my first post in this thread. Now you obviously are anti-enforcer and only enter these threads to pick away at pro-enforcer arguments. What is your view on the subject of worst enforcing team?

I think in the Post lock out NHL and with the instigator penalty carrying an enforcer is not something the Wings need to do in order to be successful and though they keep voting us the worst enfocring team that shouldn't be taken as 'softest team'. I believe that the wings need some grit, but, since the wings will never lead the NHL in fights no matter how gritty the Wings are the pro-enforcer community will always see the Wings as soft.

Edited by Shaman464, 07 June 2011 - 10:44 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#29 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:54 PM

Freak injuries have ruined his career.

This guy was well on his way to being top dog in the NHL.

Broke his hand a while back didn't he? Messed up his thumb as well. Played in 16 games this past year. He's only 26. Hopefully he finds a home this summer and rebounds next year.

On a separate note, I'm personally pulling for Brian McGrattan to get a spot on an NHL roster next year. He had a great year in the AHL last year in Syracuse (Anaheim's AHL Affiliate). Got to meet him and talked with him and he said he was pretty confident he could find a spot somewhere in the NHL next year. His skating has improved quite a bit and he showed a touch of offense in the minors last year. Hopefully he returns :thumbup:

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 07 June 2011 - 10:54 PM.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#30 Never_Retire_Steve

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:05 PM

This has been the case for this organization a lot over the last decade and I used to hate it. The fact is though that the skilled players on this team have gotten a lot tougher/more experienced and don't need as much "protection" as they did previously.


#31 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:17 PM

This has been the case for this organization a lot over the last decade and I used to hate it. The fact is though that the skilled players on this team have gotten a lot tougher/more experienced and don't need as much "protection" as they did previously.

Classic examples from this past season include Edmonton and the Islanders. The Oilers have promising young guys like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi. They've got plenty of big guys around them to handle anyone who's gonna run at them. Steve MacIntyre, Theo Peckham, Jim Vandermeer, etc. I'm sure Edmonton will keep MacIntyre around next year as well. The Islanders have promising young guys like Tavares, Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau. They surrounded them with guys to handle all the rough stuff. Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka, Matt Martin, Michael Haley, etc. If the Isles don't keep Gillies and/or Konopka around for next year, rest assured they will get guys similar to them to protect the youngsters. Yzerman had Probert, Kocur, Gallant, etc. Gretzky had Semenko. It's always been the case that promising young players are protected by "enforcers".

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 07 June 2011 - 11:18 PM.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#32 redwingfan19

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:38 PM

I don't care if it's a Brad Norton type, I want to see players held accountable when our guys get run.
You may not like tough hockey, but it's winning hockey.

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#33 Hiei

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:44 PM

I'm with RF19. I'm tired of Howard being the prime enforcer on this team.


We need someone who can handle a pass and make a decent pass or shoot and not back down from a fight.



I'm tired of running into these damn goon squads that keep running our players, and these other teams that play tough but ham it up and dive in the playoffs (then again, if that gets you to the Western Conference Final...)

"Hit em with your purse, ya *****!" - Random Wings fans shouting at Franziska


#34 sputman

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 05:54 AM

Regular fighting isn't really part of the Wings philosophy.

Given that, is Ericsson's relatively limited fighting just a lack of willingness for him, or perhaps instructions to keep it down? I swear I remember him being more of a hothead in GR than he ever has been here, and that's generally not a switch that's flipped on/off without good reason. Is it simply possible that the Wings org doesn't really want a lot of fighting?

Remember, for good or ill the PP is our enforcer.


the power play has to be really good consistently or we'll just be humiliated. i don't necessarily want an enforcer, but i can't honestly imagine how we would have faired against any of the two teams in the finals. it's ***-for-tat and i don't think our team is all that capable of that. (hey that rhymes).

did you see daniel sedin go bananas on ference the last game? sent them both off for 10 minutes. nice trade, eh? who on our team could annoy the piss out of somebody like that?

that's more of what i want...an annoyer, who can yap and hit!

and fight.

:satisfied:
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#35 Reds4Life

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:12 AM

This is very important, because you know, hockeyfights.com basically determine who wins the Cup every year.

#36 uk_redwing

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:34 AM

This is very important, because you know, hockeyfights.com basically determine who wins the Cup every year.


Good job no one said it was important then, isn't it?

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#37 e_prime

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:01 AM

I think in the Post lock out NHL and with the instigator penalty carrying an enforcer is not something the Wings need to do in order to be successful and though they keep voting us the worst enfocring team that shouldn't be taken as 'softest team'.


Honestly, I could care less what most of the knuckledraggers over there think. Most of them rag on Jack Edwards for being over the top when calling a fight but then gush like fountain of praise when the enforcer of their fancy has a decent bout and decry other comments that give their guy one less punch scored.

...but saying worst enforcing doesn't equate to softest over there is wrong. In their eyes it's exactly what that award means.

I believe that the wings need some grit, but, since the wings will never lead the NHL in fights no matter how gritty the Wings are the pro-enforcer community will always see the Wings as soft.


So, what kind of grit are you looking for? Or do we already have it?

Also, I don't think most of the pro-enforcers here on this site want the Wings to ice a team of goons, so lets not get silly about what people want. :cool:
QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#38 stevkrause

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:15 AM

wow, this thread took a turn I never would have expected! An enforcer debate?!? on LGW?!?!

:yowza:

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#39 Never_Retire_Steve

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:17 AM

Classic examples from this past season include Edmonton and the Islanders. The Oilers have promising young guys like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi. They've got plenty of big guys around them to handle anyone who's gonna run at them. Steve MacIntyre, Theo Peckham, Jim Vandermeer, etc. I'm sure Edmonton will keep MacIntyre around next year as well. The Islanders have promising young guys like Tavares, Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau. They surrounded them with guys to handle all the rough stuff. Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka, Matt Martin, Michael Haley, etc. If the Isles don't keep Gillies and/or Konopka around for next year, rest assured they will get guys similar to them to protect the youngsters. Yzerman had Probert, Kocur, Gallant, etc. Gretzky had Semenko. It's always been the case that promising young players are protected by "enforcers".


Ya, which is why I don't think we really need one. Datsyuk and Zetterberg have shown that they can handle the rough stuff since they have gotten older and if need be, we do have guys that are willing to drop the gloves.


#40 stevkrause

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:37 AM

Classic examples from this past season include Edmonton and the Islanders. The Oilers have promising young guys like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi. They've got plenty of big guys around them to handle anyone who's gonna run at them. Steve MacIntyre, Theo Peckham, Jim Vandermeer, etc. I'm sure Edmonton will keep MacIntyre around next year as well. The Islanders have promising young guys like Tavares, Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau. They surrounded them with guys to handle all the rough stuff. Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka, Matt Martin, Michael Haley, etc. If the Isles don't keep Gillies and/or Konopka around for next year, rest assured they will get guys similar to them to protect the youngsters. Yzerman had Probert, Kocur, Gallant, etc. Gretzky had Semenko. It's always been the case that promising young players are protected by "enforcers".

how did Edmonton and NY finish in the standings last year? refresh my memory...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.






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