Latest Rumor: NHL Team Expected to Announce Rebranding in 2012

[chrisdetroit 189]

This was quoted from a member over at Chris Creamer's sport logo community. (Please do not blame me if you think its nonsense or not happening).Not sure how reliable this speculation actually is but if anyone wants to browse thru this thread please go ahead. http://boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?showtopic=80699

With that being said I thought it brought up some good discussion if it is in fact true. I honestly could say I have no idea on which team it would be. Later in the thread the OP states that a team is NOT relocating so that means a current team is going to "rebrand". My best guess would be Nashville or Carolina... What's everyone else's opinions?!

Southern teams:

Tampa - obviously they have won a Cup and they are improving

Carolina - I can't see a team with their name on the Cup changing their name

Washington - they have a big fan base

Atlanta - already in the process

Nashville - could be but they are relatively sucessful

Florida - Could be

My guess is Florida

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I was referring to Florida the market, as in the Panthers, not the state of Florida. TB is further north and has FAR more transplants than South beach does and, as you touched on, has done a tremendous job creating a viable franchise...

In regards to your second point, I think it might create a spark in the sports world, but not in the market locally, they seriously could not care less about hockey in Miami... look up the article with the TV ratings and see how many households Florida Panther games were watched in, it's down right embarrassing...

I'm not arguing that the hockey market in Miami isn't embarrassing....in fact, I was the one that initially inferred it in this thread. What I'm saying is that while the market isn't great, the team had pulled some decent attendance numbers during the 90's.

This isn't a matter of Miami not caring about hockey, because a little more than a decade ago their attendance numbers weren't how they've been since. Is it really so hard believe that a complete re-branding may create a short-term spark? If you can't see that based on the Panther's attendance numbers in the past then this debate isn't worth continuing.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Southern teams:

Tampa - obviously they have won a Cup and they are improving

Carolina - I can't see a team with their name on the Cup changing their name

Washington - they have a big fan base

Atlanta - already in the process

Nashville - could be but they are relatively sucessful

Florida - Could be

My guess is Florida

Many of us think of the South as being the teams you mentioned, but if you look at the league as a whole there are more teams... Dallas, Anaheim, Los Angeles. No way L.A., Dalas possible chance with new ownership on the way and a lack of a strong identity since the edge jerseys made there way into the leaguem and Anaheim is a mess so a slight chance there.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

While I tend to agree with some of these southern teams, Tampa Bay begs to differ.

Their management has done an excellent job well before Stevie showed up at running a profitable and viable franchise. Obviously, their Florida counterparts haven't had that kind of success, but saying it can't be done is far from accurate given TB's financial success.

Besides, all I said was "create a spark" (which it very-well could), I didn't claim they'd be the next Detroit.

The Ducks are a better model than Tampa Bay. Both have won a Cup but until recently TB has struggled with attendance, poor management and bad owners. The Ducks have had a far more consistent record of profitability, attendance and on-ice success.

[Datsyerberger 279]

The Ducks are a better model than Tampa Bay. Both have won a Cup but until recently TB has struggled with attendance, poor management and bad owners. The Ducks have had a far more consistent record of profitability, attendance and on-ice success.

Wrong.

The TBL had a good run of success from the early 00s until the lockout, and have picked up again this last season. Lets say 4-5 years.

The Ducks had an amazing run with Giggy pre lockout. Aside from that, 3 years or so post lockout. Again, let's say 4-5 years.

TBL's average attendance has been much higher during the 00s.

TBL's ticket prices have been higher during the 00s.

TBL's profits have been higher during the 00s.

ANA has had better ownership/management since the lockout. Until now.

Aside from that, TBL has had a fairly solid identity since their inception, whereas the Ducks are using a fragment of the name of a team used from a Disney film; said name fragment has led to constant tweaking of the colors and logo because it's an extremely uninspiring and unfit name for a major sports team.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The Ducks are a better model than Tampa Bay. Both have won a Cup but until recently TB has struggled with attendance, poor management and bad owners. The Ducks have had a far more consistent record of profitability, attendance and on-ice success.

Yet they've consistently been a profitable franchise....which is the one and only claim I made. While the brass in charge of the on-ice product since the lockout (dis-including this year) has been poor, the management in charge of running the business side of things has done a very good job considering the aforementioned.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

I'm taking this to mean a franchise with a solid business footing in place and one that has no intention of moving in the near future. If that is true, it eliminates some teams quickly.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Wrong.

The TBL had a good run of success from the early 00s until the lockout, and have picked up again this last season. Lets say 4-5 years.

The Ducks had an amazing run with Giggy pre lockout. Aside from that, 3 years or so post lockout. Again, let's say 4-5 years.

TBL's average attendance has been much higher during the 00s.

TBL's ticket prices have been higher during the 00s.

TBL's profits have been higher during the 00s.

ANA has had better ownership/management since the lockout. Until now.

Aside from that, TBL has had a fairly solid identity since their inception, whereas the Ducks are using a fragment of the name of a team used from a Disney film; said name fragment has led to constant tweaking of the colors and logo because it's an extremely uninspiring and unfit name for a major sports team.

Just because I don't support talking out of one's ass:

Average attendances

Pre lockout (starting 00-01)

TBL: 16,248

ANA: 13,169

Post lockout

TBL: 18,057

ANA: 15,874

Total:

TBL: 17,328

ANA: 14,973

The Ducks only finished ahead of the Bolts once in this entire stretch, 2 years after their cup win (08-09), when TBL was in their 4th season of abysmal management. TBL finished 21, Ducks 17th.

In fact, here's the record of those 10 years by attendance rank (starting with 00-01, descending to 10-11):

TBL--ANA

25th--28th

20th--30th

16th--26th

12th*--24th

2nd---24th

3rd---20th*

8th---15th+

21st--17th

21st--24th

18th--26th

*=cup year, +=post-cup year (TBL's post cup year was during the lockout)

Speak with knowledge, my friends.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Datsyerberger

[stevkrause 1,247]

I'm not arguing that the hockey market in Miami isn't embarrassing....in fact, I was the one that initially inferred it in this thread. What I'm saying is that while the market isn't great, the team had pulled some decent attendance numbers during the 90's.

This isn't a matter of Miami not caring about hockey, because a little more than a decade ago their attendance numbers weren't how they've been since. Is it really so hard believe that a complete re-branding may create a short-term spark? If you can't see that based on the Panther's attendance numbers in the past then this debate isn't worth continuing.

It was over 1.5 decades ago by this point... they haven't cared about that team down there since the early to mid 90's...

It's not hard to believe that it MIGHT generate a glimmer of a spark, but just like clicking two rocks together in the middle of a downpour may generate a spark, that spark is short lived and you'll never start a fire... it'd be a sideshow if anything...

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Just because I don't support talking out of one's ass:

Average attendances

Pre lockout (starting 00-01)

TBL: 16,248

ANA: 13,169

Post lockout

TBL: 18,057

ANA: 15,874

Total:

TBL: 17,328

ANA: 14,973

The Ducks only finished ahead of the Bolts once in this entire stretch, 2 years after their cup win (08-09), when TBL was in their 4th season of abysmal management. TBL finished 21, Ducks 17th.

In fact, here's the record of those 10 years by attendance rank (starting with 00-01, descending to 10-11):

TBL--ANA

25th--28th

20th--30th

16th--26th

12th*--24th

2nd---24th

3rd---20th*

8th---15th+

21st--17th

21st--24th

18th--26th

*=cup year, +=post-cup year (TBL's post cup year was during the lockout)

Speak with knowledge, my friends.

I'll side step the fact that you've approached this with the grace and tact of a 15 year old with Asperger Syndrome. (And we can ignore the fact that "knowledge" isn't the same thing as the ability to type a word into google and hit enter)

And what about on-ice success and management? Tampa Bay lags behind Anaheim there. Does everyone forget the ownership BS that's gone on in TB over the last decade?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I'll side step the fact that you've approached this with the grace and tact of a 15 year old with Asperger Syndrome. (And we can ignore the fact that "knowledge" isn't the same thing as the ability to type a word into google and hit enter)

And what about on-ice success and management? Tampa Bay lags behind Anaheim there. Does everyone forget the ownership BS that's gone on in TB over the last decade?

He addressed that.

The TBL had a good run of success from the early 00s until the lockout, and have picked up again this last season. Lets say 4-5 years.

The Ducks had an amazing run with Giggy pre lockout. Aside from that, 3 years or so post lockout. Again, let's say 4-5 years.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I'll side step the fact that you've approached this with the grace and tact of a 15 year old with Asperger Syndrome.

24 year old with Asperger's Syndrome. Close enough. f*** tact, give me 'fact'.

(And we can ignore the fact that "knowledge" isn't the same thing as the ability to type a word into google and hit enter)

Already had a good idea of the attendance figures, hence my estimation in the 1st post. 2nd post I used a bookmarked site to verify my numbers (most of which I keep track of fairly well mentally, go go gadget Aspergers). Guess I'm used to slapping people around with figures when they make (poor) assumptions.

And what about on-ice success and management? Tampa Bay lags behind Anaheim there. Does everyone forget the ownership BS that's gone on in TB over the last decade?

He addressed that.

Indeed. I acknowledged that Anaheim has had more stable ownership. On-ice product has been roughly equal in a 10 year span. Off-ice product has favored Tampa Bay (though they're also in a better market). They also have much less of an identity crisis.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

It was over 1.5 decades ago by this point... they haven't cared about that team down there since the early to mid 90's...

It's not hard to believe that it MIGHT generate a glimmer of a spark, but just like clicking two rocks together in the middle of a downpour may generate a spark, that spark is short lived and you'll never start a fire... it'd be a sideshow if anything...

Jesus sk, the way you're arguing you'd think I was stating that this is going to propel the Panthers into being the number 1 franchise in all of sports. For the love of God, that's not what I said/meant. Simply put, if the franchise does do something incredibly new and bold, it may create a spark which is all I've said all along. Not move mountains, create a spark.

[Datsyerberger 279]

On a hunch, I also decided to compare the Cats' attendance to the Ducks over the last 10 years:

Pre lockout

Florida: 15,529

Anaheim: 13,619

Post lockout:

Florida: 15,545

Anaheim: 15,874

Total:

Florida: 15,539

Anaheim: 14,973

Two things to keep in mind:

1. Attendance isn't end-all be-all; Florida has had their tickets on the cheap during most of that time and such is reflected in their lower revenue and franchise value.

2. Ducks won a cup during that period, whilst Florida has been in a record setting playoff drought.

All things considered, I think the Florida management has done a fantastic job of keeping a team with abysmal on-ice product afloat. This may also be due to a better market than Anaheim. Both Tampa area (particularly southawrds) and southeast Florida are excellent markets with oodles of snowbirds, descendants of snowbirds, and northeast/midwest transplants (as well as their families). Hell, I'm one of them. My father is from Detroit. I was born/raised in Northwest Florida. My (deceased) grandfather is from Michigan and retired/died in southwest Florida. His wife (my natural grandmother died young), also deceased now, was Canadian. After is death she was a long-time snowbird, with dual residency in Ontario and Bradenton, FL for something like 15-20 years before she died. I can assure you this story is very much echoed in the Florida peninsula, and parts of NW Florida as well (due to very heavy military presence for the latter, and partly the beaches).

Edited June 9, 2011 by Datsyerberger

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Carolina's "rose" logo looks like crap and they wear the same colors as about half the teams in the league. If any team needs a change from a "looks" standpoint, it's them.

Oh and I also don't think Florida is a great market for hockey, no matter what changes they make. At this point, relocation is the best option for the NHL with that franchise. I doubt anyone in Miami doesn't go to games because the logo and jersey suck.

Edited June 9, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[allyourphil 1]

IDK guys(e2), I dont think this rumor(e4) is very credible until Eklund(e1) blogs about it (e3)

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Well according to Icethetics one Coyotes prospective owner promised to rename the Coyotes the Arizona Coyotes. Not terribly exciting but something... Here's what they're saying about Reebok's jersey presales info for Western teams next season:

http://www.icethetics.info/blog/2011/5/9/nhl-jerseywatch-2011.html

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

...Arizona Coyotes...

A regional feel, trying to get the entire state involved? Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Well according to Icethetics one Coyotes prospective owner promised to rename the Coyotes the Arizona Coyotes. Not terribly exciting but something... Here's what they're saying about Reebok's jersey presales info for Western teams next season:

http://www.icethetics.info/blog/2011/5/9/nhl-jerseywatch-2011.html

A regional feel, trying to get the entire state involved? Desperate times call for desperate measures.

The reason I don't see this being the change is because from the original post it says something that never has been done before. I believe that this has been...

[LeftWinger 4,934]

If it is a team named after a sponsor I'm going to be PISSED!!!!

YA! The Winn-Dixie Panthers! The NASCAR Hurricanes!

Problem is they don't even play in Phoenix, they play in Glendale. I know if the sale went through, they would have been the Glendale Coyotes. Maybe they want something completely new.

The Coyotes name has been through the ringer the past couple years and the franchise is not respected.

Ya! The Arizona Plateau!

It wouldn't... they need to move, hockey in Miami is about as bad of an idea as hockey in Arizona was... I can appreciate the southern expansion idea, but those were horrible ideas from day one and to be honest, Florida is probably a worse idea than Phoenix was...

they have hockey in Miami? The Panthers play outside of the Sawgrass Mills Mall in Sunrise which is north west of Fort Lauderdale....I get what you're saying, just bustin your chops a lil!

[LeftWinger 4,934]

It gonna be the Detroit Red Wings! They are gonna move to the Eastern Conference and will be re-branded Eastern Conference Champions instead of Western Conference Champions on their way to another Stanley Cup Championship! Sheesh guys!

[Konnan511 1,736]

[numbers n' stuff]

I +1'd you because of the work you put into it, but it's better to look at percentage of tickets sold than actual attendance. You could have an area with 1 million people and an arena that only fits 15,000 or an area with 10mil with an arena that seats 18000, but the 18000 seater only has 16000 average attendance while the 15,000 is sold out every night.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Sounds interesting, but probably not true

[sputman 1,268]

Predators is one of the worst team names of all time. Please change it.

+1

because i completely disagree with this post and think it's ridiculous that somebody gave it a negative because they disagree with it as well. this is why i hate the negative option. obviously there are worst team names "of all time."

anyways, so southern nhl team?

so i guess that would include los angeles, anaheim, phoenix, dallas, nashville, carolina, tampa bay, and the panthers. funny i always thought of san jose as being a southern nhl team, though in that case i guess you'd have to include colorado and st. louis.

los angeles - they've changed colors a few times, but with the gretzky influence i can't see them ever being anything other than the "kings."

anaheim - have already shed the "mighty" nonsense. changed logos many times. successful franchise, can't see why they'd keep changing at this point.

phoenix - they've already successfully rebranded, cosmetically at least. they've not been that bad as a franchise so i don't see why an upheaval is necessary. i can see how with the talk the last few years of them relocating they'd want to solidify the team as something more substantial, so the "arizona coyotes" doesn't seem too far fetched.

dallas - even though they haven't been that successful the last few years, i can't imagine they'd change much with their history of winning.

nashville - silly, bucktoothed logo - though i personally like their colors (especially the yellow ones, i can't explain it). they've got a decent fan-base i can't imagine a complete rebranding would create a positive response. maybe a different logo with some color variations. but i think the name stays, for bette or worse.

carolina - i moved down to the chapel hill area in 2004 and have seen many hurricane games. the fan-base is actually quite strong and intelligent. a good deal of the fans are old, relocated "whale" fans, or relocated northerners who love to watch hockey and know the game well. and there are some locals who have caught on as well. they've won a cup, their merch sells, they aren't going to change anything.

tampa bay - does yzerman pull a gretzky and give the lightning a more polished, professional brand? personally, i've always disliked the lightning's colors and logo. but, they've won with it. i don't think it's part of stevie's personality to shake things up.

panthers - if the rumor is true, it's the panthers.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I +1'd you because of the work you put into it, but it's better to look at percentage of tickets sold than actual attendance. You could have an area with 1 million people and an arena that only fits 15,000 or an area with 10mil with an arena that seats 18000, but the 18000 seater only has 16000 average attendance while the 15,000 is sold out every night.

I agree with you 100% and have actually looked into those numbers before (And regarding the teams discussed, it doesn't change the ratios much). I think it also says something about the expected potential of a market when an arena is built to a certain capacity.

As an example of such, 2 years after the Bolts won the cup (damned lockout), they were 2nd in overall league attendance, then dropped just a touch the next year, and were still 8th 3 years later (when the team had already been sucking horribly and the owners were blowing it up). Meanwhile, the Ducks weren't running even close to max attendance their 2 years after the cup (their top was 2 years later, 15th in the league), and within 3 years they had dropped back down to the 20s.

What's ultimately more important than any of the above is ticket revenue (which factors tickets sold + ticket pricing, the best measure of demand), but since Drake specifically brought up the Ducks attendance being way better than the Bolts and he was so utterly wrong about such, I felt it needed addressing. I don't think people will ever truly respect the expansion markets that are actually good if people operate under assumption all the time (as was clearly the case there).