Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Ok cool, thanks for the info.

Anybody else like the looks of this?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Carter-Cleary

Bertuzzi-Filpula-Abdelkader

Eaves-Helm-Miller

I think that looks good, those first two lines are dynamite. Also they are interchangeable if less production starts to occur. No matter what way you change them around I think they are two very solid "top 2 lines". Like the third line as well, and the fourth has a grind line feel to it. Looks good to me. Then the rest of the money, well most of it, can be used to lock up some solid defenseman. I am a total fan of this idea.

[Majsheppard 203]

Jeff Carter would be GREAT, $5 mil cap hit per year, 25 years old, signed through 2018-2019, he has 40-50 goal abilities. He would be a monster addition at a relatively low price. However, Philly will explore all options before dealing him.

Word has it that they are close to getting a deal with Columbus for a top-six forward and the eighth overall pick in this year’s entry draft. If that is the case... you can forget about us getting him.

BTW, horrible guy to put with Nash. IMO. They have been looking for a top center forever. Boy would I be pissed if I was Carter and traded to the Jackets. His lifetime contract would be like a sentence then.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

If we could somehow get Carter I'm all for it. Make it happen Kenny....

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Ok cool, thanks for the info.

Anybody else like the looks of this?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Carter-Cleary

Bertuzzi-Filpula-Abdelkader

Eaves-Helm-Miller

Id roll with this (must consider some of these guys may be traded the other way):

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen

Filppula-Carter-Cleary

Bertuzzi-Helm-Eaves

Miller-Abdelkader-Mursak

Holmstrom

I think Helm has earned 3rd line status with the top 2 lines being loaded.

Edited June 9, 2011 by dirtydangles

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Word has it that they are close to getting a deal with Columbus for a top-six forward and the eighth overall pick in this year’s entry draft. If that is the case... you can forget about us getting him.

BTW, horrible guy to put with Nash. IMO. They have been looking for a top center forever. Boy would I be pissed if I was Carter and traded to the Jackets. His lifetime contract would be like a sentence then.

Previous post on the first page stated this as well with a link. The player mentioned was Voracek. If you read some previous posts, I said my reasons on why I didn't think that it would be a smart move for Philly to make that deal.

[kipwinger 8,492]

Yeah, it's probably an extremely long shot, but man would it ever look good.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Carter's contract has an NTC through duration (Full through part and partial through the rest), his contract runs through 21-22, and his playoff production has been quite poor. Do. Not. Want.

Coburn, on the other hand? Yes, please.. though Carle is much more likely.

[Majsheppard 203]

The best shot we had was trading picks, not players.

Emmerton is the guy I would peg to be the basis for a trade with Philly. Then we would need to put Filpulla in there, because I doubt they would want Hudler. Now I would consider trading Hudler, Filpulla, Emmerton, and two firsts for Carle and Carter. I would even offer Bertuzzi if he would waive his NTC, which he won't... If they want the rights to E, go ahead and throw that in lol.

Here is a cap number. Not saying we do go after Bieksa, but just showing that the cap money is there.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.750m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Drew Miller ($1.000m)

/ Kris Draper ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.500m)

/ Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,018,938; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,381,062

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Carter-Cleary

Bertuzzi-Filpula-Abdelkader

Eaves-Helm-Miller

Maybe, hopefully it's just me but the Euro Twins seem to be all but dead. Hank and Pav don't have the same chemistry as they did and it only shows in flashes on the power play. Pushing either of them to the wing seems to really limit their effectiveness.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Maybe, hopefully it's just me but the Euro Twins seem to be all but dead. Hank and Pav don't have the same chemistry as they did and it only shows in flashes on the power play. Pushing either of them to the wing seems to really limit their effectiveness.

Even though in my previous post I said I like these top two lines I tend to agree with you. At least the past two seasons they seemed more explosive leading there own lines. If that was the case and we traded for Carter maybe we could turn it into more of a block buster trade since we would have a log jam at the center position. Trade Filppula in the deal as well and receive Carle or Corburn? Just an idea.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

The best shot we had was trading picks, not players.

Emmerton is the guy I would peg to be the basis for a trade with Philly. Then we would need to put Filpulla in there, because I doubt they would want Hudler. Now I would consider trading Hudler, Filpulla, Emmerton, and two firsts for Carle and Carter. I would even offer Bertuzzi if he would waive his NTC, which he won't... If they want the rights to E, go ahead and throw that in lol.

They would want a Dman in return. I don't think rights to ericsson who wants a butload of money will fix the situation. We'd have to offer up Kindl as opposed to Hudler probably.... I want to dump him, but he's not philly's kind of player.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

The best shot we had was trading picks, not players.

Emmerton is the guy I would peg to be the basis for a trade with Philly. Then we would need to put Filpulla in there, because I doubt they would want Hudler. Now I would consider trading Hudler, Filpulla, Emmerton, and two firsts for Carle and Carter. I would even offer Bertuzzi if he would waive his NTC, which he won't... If they want the rights to E, go ahead and throw that in lol.

Here is a cap number. Not saying we do go after Bieksa, but just showing that the cap money is there.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.750m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Drew Miller ($1.000m)

/ Kris Draper ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.500m)

/ Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,018,938; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,381,062

No way Smith would be on the second line defense. About a 5% chance to see that happen, otherwise looks solid ( not the way the line combos are set but the roster looks good)

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Even though in my previous post I said I like these top two lines I tend to agree with you. At least the past two seasons they seemed more explosive leading there own lines. If that was the case and we traded for Carter maybe we could turn it into more of a block buster trade since we would have a log jam at the center position. Trade Filppula in the deal as well and receive Carle or Corburn? Just an idea.

Agreed. Fil would have to go the other way in a package. Him or Abby+ I think philly would like Abby+ better as he is grittier and has a lower cap hit....

[kipwinger 8,492]

Maybe, hopefully it's just me but the Euro Twins seem to be all but dead. Hank and Pav don't have the same chemistry as they did and it only shows in flashes on the power play. Pushing either of them to the wing seems to really limit their effectiveness.

You may be right on this. However, and I'll probably get blasted for this, one of the VERY FEW criticisms that I have of Babcock is that he plays with the line combinations constantly. To the point that guys are playing with different pairings every few nights. In a game where chemistry and timing matters as much as hockey, it seems to really bog some guys down. I don't know if that's the reason they haven't been as good together, but I don't really care for it, and certainly you don't see other teams tops lines doing it (at least not nearly as often).

[dirtydangles 1,328]

You may be right on this. However, and I'll probably get blasted for this, one of the VERY FEW criticisms that I have of Babcock is that he plays with the line combinations constantly. To the point that guys are playing with different pairings every few nights. In a game where chemistry and timing matters as much as hockey, it seems to really bog some guys down. I don't know if that's the reason they haven't been as good together, but I don't really care for it, and certainly you don't see other teams tops lines doing it (at least not nearly as often).

I totally agree. Babs does mess with the lines a little too much. Thats why I'd like to see a guy like Carter who is guaranteed a top 2 line spot replace somebody, gives babs less options to keep promoting and demoting guys.

For 6 spots ud have:

Z

Dats

Carter

Franzen

Cleary

Filppula (If not part of the trade)

Which makes it less likely that there will be juggling of all 4 lines. It would be a guy or two moving between the top 2 lines.

[puckbags 863]

The thought of having a right handed sniper on this team makes me giddy..well actually it makes me picture Shanny or Hull ripping one timers in the back of the net. I'm going to use my one Get er done Kenny for the year right now. "GET ER DONE KENNY !! "

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Just a little more food for thought to spark conversation...

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/phi110608.html

Looks like Carter is the front runner for the one being shopped/moved. ^^^ I am with you Puckbags, GET ERR DONE KENNY. Put Carter in the most elegant, beautiful, prestigious NHL jersey of all time; A WINGS JERSEY!

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Cmon now, it would cost way more then mursak, a 2nd and abdelkader. A big, right handed shot thats skates really well, its start with B smith, and more.

If Philly wants to sign Bryz bad enough, they will be looking for prospects that don't cost much. Leino was garbage here, but he worked wonderfully there, Hudler has shown he can score here, that is very enticing to Philly. I would say if Mursak, Hudler, draft picks, and another prospect (maybe a Joakim Andersson) would probably get it done. I know that is giving up a lot of future, but this is Jeff Carter, he is VERY young and will be here forever. Wings would lose out on Mursak and Andersson and possibly a re-emerging Hudler (not to mention the draft picks) but it's not like they don't have other prospects waiting to come up (Tatar, Emmerton, Nyquist, Sheahan) they are pretty deap in prospects... Normally someone would say that this isn't NHL 11 or WGH, but when a team is looking to dump salary, you got to do what you got to do... I know this kid in Columbus has a small cap hit, but the Wings have more assets to throw in. If somehow Holland can make this happen, then OH MY! Our top 6 would be KILLER!

I would hate to see Abdelkader thrown in there, I believe he is gonna be a solid player here for a long long time, I would rather see MUrsak and Hudler go instead of Abdelkader. I would hate for Holland to include him in a package.

Although, with Mursak out of options, they cap relief wouldn't be too much for the Flyers adding the two together...but then again, it would be some...

I like the idea of Versteeg too. I guess it just all depends on the fine line between NEEDING cap relief and getting a good deal in exchange....if somehow Holland could get Carter and Versteeg...yikes! Hey stranger things have happened in the NHL, look at when Pitt had to dump Jagr's salary, then when Washington had to dump him...

Could always see if Cleary would waive his NTC as well... besides it's only in effect until 30 days prior to the trade deadline, they could do whatever then, may as well accept a trade to a legit contender now and not have to worry about having to learn their system in a month before the playoffs... here is my WGH trade (it's gonna be silly, so its ok to LOL at me! Just dont neg me! )

Detroit gets: Carter ($5.272M), Versteeg ($3.083), Coburn ($3.2M)

Philly gets: Hudler ($2.89M), Cleary ($2.8M), Mursak ($550), Andersson ($875) 1st & 2nd picks,

Philly picks up $6.24M (not counting Andersson since he has options left) but sends away $11.555M gaining $5.315M in cap relief...

Detroit obviously in spending $5.315M more in cap space, but since they will have a projected $22M available, this is a nice cap hit for what they pick up!

Detroit then re-signs Lids, Mller, Eaves, picks up Wiz, Joe Goalie and convinces Ericsson to sign a $1.8M contract....Lids, Coburn, Stuart, Kronwall, Wiz, Ericsson, Kindl....Nice! Then when Lids retires, we can go after Suter next off season....

ok, laugh it up now....

[under_par_00 45]

Versteeg at $3.1 million will be traded long before Carter at $5 million long term. He is the face of their Franchise.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

If Philly wants to sign Bryz bad enough, they will be looking for prospects that don't cost much. Leino was garbage here, but he worked wonderfully there, Hudler has shown he can score here, that is very enticing to Philly. I would say if Mursak, Hudler, draft picks, and another prospect (maybe a Joakim Andersson) would probably get it done. I know that is giving up a lot of future, but this is Jeff Carter, he is VERY young and will be here forever. Wings would lose out on Mursak and Andersson and possibly a re-emerging Hudler (not to mention the draft picks) but it's not like they don't have other prospects waiting to come up (Tatar, Emmerton, Nyquist, Sheahan) they are pretty deap in prospects... Normally someone would say that this isn't NHL 11 or WGH, but when a team is looking to dump salary, you got to do what you got to do... I know this kid in Columbus has a small cap hit, but the Wings have more assets to throw in. If somehow Holland can make this happen, then OH MY! Our top 6 would be KILLER!

I would hate to see Abdelkader thrown in there, I believe he is gonna be a solid player here for a long long time, I would rather see MUrsak and Hudler go instead of Abdelkader. I would hate for Holland to include him in a package.

Although, with Mursak out of options, they cap relief wouldn't be too much for the Flyers adding the two together...but then again, it would be some...

I like the idea of Versteeg too. I guess it just all depends on the fine line between NEEDING cap relief and getting a good deal in exchange....if somehow Holland could get Carter and Versteeg...yikes! Hey stranger things have happened in the NHL, look at when Pitt had to dump Jagr's salary, then when Washington had to dump him...

Could always see if Cleary would waive his NTC as well... besides it's only in effect until 30 days prior to the trade deadline, they could do whatever then, may as well accept a trade to a legit contender now and not have to worry about having to learn their system in a month before the playoffs... here is my WGH trade (it's gonna be silly, so its ok to LOL at me! Just dont neg me! )

Detroit gets: Carter ($5.272M), Versteeg ($3.083), Coburn ($3.2M)

Philly gets: Hudler ($2.89M), Cleary ($2.8M), Mursak ($550), Andersson ($875) 1st & 2nd picks,

Philly picks up $6.24M (not counting Andersson since he has options left) but sends away $11.555M gaining $5.315M in cap relief...

Detroit obviously in spending $5.315M more in cap space, but since they will have a projected $22M available, this is a nice cap hit for what they pick up!

Detroit then re-signs Lids, Mller, Eaves, picks up Wiz, Joe Goalie and convinces Ericsson to sign a $1.8M contract....Lids, Coburn, Stuart, Kronwall, Wiz, Ericsson, Kindl....Nice! Then when Lids retires, we can go after Suter next off season....

ok, laugh it up now....

Ud likely see Kindl instead of Cleary going the other way and leave versteeg out of it. Philly won't give up their best Dman prospect without picking a decent one up in return.

[BamaWing 37]

I'm sure he could play wing. I'd love to have a right handed sniper

[Red Wings Addict 787]

You may be right on this. However, and I'll probably get blasted for this, one of the VERY FEW criticisms that I have of Babcock is that he plays with the line combinations constantly. To the point that guys are playing with different pairings every few nights. In a game where chemistry and timing matters as much as hockey, it seems to really bog some guys down. I don't know if that's the reason they haven't been as good together, but I don't really care for it, and certainly you don't see other teams tops lines doing it (at least not nearly as often).

Yeah but Babs has always done that ever since he's coached here and the Euro Twins were fine from 06-08 and arguably parts of 09.

So what's changed? Only Pav and Z themselves in ways perhaps including but not limited to:

1. I feel like Zetterberg is trying to rely more on his smarts and intelligence to get him through games, especially the regular season, and less and less of the tenacity and determination that he showed as a young up and coming player. He's getting a little older, doesn't want to be injured and thus has to really pace himself if he wants to battle for a cup. He'll step up his energy if he really has to like when Datsyuk got injured this past year but if the Wings got all their horses then he's just preparing himself for the playoffs. And I don't want to come off as criticizing him at all. Perhaps that's the best way for him to go about his business, everything considered.

2. Datsyuk has become much more dominant everywhere on the ice. The guy just seems to be everywhere taking care of everything and we all want to see him like that. He's just gotten so much better.

With these sorts of factors in play I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that they don't play as well together. Perhaps they've just simply grown to the point where they don't instinctively rely on each other as much. And that's perfectly fine.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Just to restate my thoughts on Carters contract and his post season play:

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Jeff Carter would be GREAT, $5 mil cap hit per year, 25 years old, signed through 2018-2019, he has 40-50 goal abilities. He would be a monster addition at a relatively low price. However, Philly will explore all options before dealing him.

Yeah it sure would be great. But we'd be waaaaaayyy too top heavy.

Carter's cap hit will be 5.27 million next season (until 2022). They'd have 22mil between 4 guys. Now if the Wings moved Filppula's 3mil somewhere else (Philly is trying to make cap room, so that'd be a no go) you could treat Carter as a 2.27 million dollar upgrade on Val's spot. Still, the Wings would be in a tough spot when Kronwall's contract expires.

I'd rather spend that money on the back end.

[kipwinger 8,492]

Yeah but Babs has always done that ever since he's coached here and the Euro Twins were fine from 06-08 and arguably parts of 09.

So what's changed? Only Pav and Z themselves in ways perhaps including but not limited to:

1. I feel like Zetterberg is trying to rely more on his smarts and intelligence to get him through games, especially the regular season, and less and less of the tenacity and determination that he showed as a young up and coming player. He's getting a little older, doesn't want to be injured and thus has to really pace himself if he wants to battle for a cup. He'll step up his energy if he really has to like when Datsyuk got injured this past year but if the Wings got all their horses then he's just preparing himself for the playoffs. And I don't want to come off as criticizing him at all. Perhaps that's the best way for him to go about his business, everything considered.

2. Datsyuk has become much more dominant everywhere on the ice. The guy just seems to be everywhere taking care of everything and we all want to see him like that. He's just gotten so much better.

With these sorts of factors in play I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that they don't play as well together. Perhaps they've just simply grown to the point where they don't instinctively rely on each other as much. And that's perfectly fine.

You're right on both accounts, and you wouldn't necessarily have to put them together if you signed Carter. But if they were, I don't think you'd be in too bad of shape.