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Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?


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#41 puckbags

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:00 PM

The thought of having a right handed sniper on this team makes me giddy..well actually it makes me picture Shanny or Hull ripping one timers in the back of the net. I'm going to use my one Get er done Kenny for the year right now. "GET ER DONE KENNY !! "

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#42 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:05 PM

Just a little more food for thought to spark conversation...

http://www.thefourth.../phi110608.html


Looks like Carter is the front runner for the one being shopped/moved. ^^^ I am with you Puckbags, GET ERR DONE KENNY. Put Carter in the most elegant, beautiful, prestigious NHL jersey of all time; A WINGS JERSEY!

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#43 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:09 PM

Cmon now, it would cost way more then mursak, a 2nd and abdelkader. A big, right handed shot thats skates really well, its start with B smith, and more.

If Philly wants to sign Bryz bad enough, they will be looking for prospects that don't cost much. Leino was garbage here, but he worked wonderfully there, Hudler has shown he can score here, that is very enticing to Philly. I would say if Mursak, Hudler, draft picks, and another prospect (maybe a Joakim Andersson) would probably get it done. I know that is giving up a lot of future, but this is Jeff Carter, he is VERY young and will be here forever. Wings would lose out on Mursak and Andersson and possibly a re-emerging Hudler (not to mention the draft picks) but it's not like they don't have other prospects waiting to come up (Tatar, Emmerton, Nyquist, Sheahan) they are pretty deap in prospects... Normally someone would say that this isn't NHL 11 or WGH, but when a team is looking to dump salary, you got to do what you got to do... I know this kid in Columbus has a small cap hit, but the Wings have more assets to throw in. If somehow Holland can make this happen, then OH MY! Our top 6 would be KILLER!

I would hate to see Abdelkader thrown in there, I believe he is gonna be a solid player here for a long long time, I would rather see MUrsak and Hudler go instead of Abdelkader. I would hate for Holland to include him in a package.

Although, with Mursak out of options, they cap relief wouldn't be too much for the Flyers adding the two together...but then again, it would be some...

I like the idea of Versteeg too. I guess it just all depends on the fine line between NEEDING cap relief and getting a good deal in exchange....if somehow Holland could get Carter and Versteeg...yikes! Hey stranger things have happened in the NHL, look at when Pitt had to dump Jagr's salary, then when Washington had to dump him...

Could always see if Cleary would waive his NTC as well... besides it's only in effect until 30 days prior to the trade deadline, they could do whatever then, may as well accept a trade to a legit contender now and not have to worry about having to learn their system in a month before the playoffs... here is my WGH trade (it's gonna be silly, so its ok to LOL at me! Just dont neg me! :lol:)

Detroit gets: Carter ($5.272M), Versteeg ($3.083), Coburn ($3.2M)

Philly gets: Hudler ($2.89M), Cleary ($2.8M), Mursak ($550), Andersson ($875) 1st & 2nd picks,



Philly picks up $6.24M (not counting Andersson since he has options left) but sends away $11.555M gaining $5.315M in cap relief...

Detroit obviously in spending $5.315M more in cap space, but since they will have a projected $22M available, this is a nice cap hit for what they pick up!

Detroit then re-signs Lids, Mller, Eaves, picks up Wiz, Joe Goalie and convinces Ericsson to sign a $1.8M contract....Lids, Coburn, Stuart, Kronwall, Wiz, Ericsson, Kindl....Nice! Then when Lids retires, we can go after Suter next off season....

ok, laugh it up now....

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#44 under_par_00

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:14 PM

Versteeg at $3.1 million will be traded long before Carter at $5 million long term. He is the face of their Franchise.

#45 dirtydangles

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:15 PM

If Philly wants to sign Bryz bad enough, they will be looking for prospects that don't cost much. Leino was garbage here, but he worked wonderfully there, Hudler has shown he can score here, that is very enticing to Philly. I would say if Mursak, Hudler, draft picks, and another prospect (maybe a Joakim Andersson) would probably get it done. I know that is giving up a lot of future, but this is Jeff Carter, he is VERY young and will be here forever. Wings would lose out on Mursak and Andersson and possibly a re-emerging Hudler (not to mention the draft picks) but it's not like they don't have other prospects waiting to come up (Tatar, Emmerton, Nyquist, Sheahan) they are pretty deap in prospects... Normally someone would say that this isn't NHL 11 or WGH, but when a team is looking to dump salary, you got to do what you got to do... I know this kid in Columbus has a small cap hit, but the Wings have more assets to throw in. If somehow Holland can make this happen, then OH MY! Our top 6 would be KILLER!

I would hate to see Abdelkader thrown in there, I believe he is gonna be a solid player here for a long long time, I would rather see MUrsak and Hudler go instead of Abdelkader. I would hate for Holland to include him in a package.

Although, with Mursak out of options, they cap relief wouldn't be too much for the Flyers adding the two together...but then again, it would be some...

I like the idea of Versteeg too. I guess it just all depends on the fine line between NEEDING cap relief and getting a good deal in exchange....if somehow Holland could get Carter and Versteeg...yikes! Hey stranger things have happened in the NHL, look at when Pitt had to dump Jagr's salary, then when Washington had to dump him...

Could always see if Cleary would waive his NTC as well... besides it's only in effect until 30 days prior to the trade deadline, they could do whatever then, may as well accept a trade to a legit contender now and not have to worry about having to learn their system in a month before the playoffs... here is my WGH trade (it's gonna be silly, so its ok to LOL at me! Just dont neg me! :lol:)

Detroit gets: Carter ($5.272M), Versteeg ($3.083), Coburn ($3.2M)

Philly gets: Hudler ($2.89M), Cleary ($2.8M), Mursak ($550), Andersson ($875) 1st & 2nd picks,



Philly picks up $6.24M (not counting Andersson since he has options left) but sends away $11.555M gaining $5.315M in cap relief...

Detroit obviously in spending $5.315M more in cap space, but since they will have a projected $22M available, this is a nice cap hit for what they pick up!

Detroit then re-signs Lids, Mller, Eaves, picks up Wiz, Joe Goalie and convinces Ericsson to sign a $1.8M contract....Lids, Coburn, Stuart, Kronwall, Wiz, Ericsson, Kindl....Nice! Then when Lids retires, we can go after Suter next off season....

ok, laugh it up now....


Ud likely see Kindl instead of Cleary going the other way and leave versteeg out of it. Philly won't give up their best Dman prospect without picking a decent one up in return.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#46 BamaWing

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:18 PM

I'm sure he could play wing. I'd love to have a right handed sniper

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#47 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:22 PM

You may be right on this. However, and I'll probably get blasted for this, one of the VERY FEW criticisms that I have of Babcock is that he plays with the line combinations constantly. To the point that guys are playing with different pairings every few nights. In a game where chemistry and timing matters as much as hockey, it seems to really bog some guys down. I don't know if that's the reason they haven't been as good together, but I don't really care for it, and certainly you don't see other teams tops lines doing it (at least not nearly as often).


Yeah but Babs has always done that ever since he's coached here and the Euro Twins were fine from 06-08 and arguably parts of 09.

So what's changed? Only Pav and Z themselves in ways perhaps including but not limited to:

1. I feel like Zetterberg is trying to rely more on his smarts and intelligence to get him through games, especially the regular season, and less and less of the tenacity and determination that he showed as a young up and coming player. He's getting a little older, doesn't want to be injured and thus has to really pace himself if he wants to battle for a cup. He'll step up his energy if he really has to like when Datsyuk got injured this past year but if the Wings got all their horses then he's just preparing himself for the playoffs. And I don't want to come off as criticizing him at all. Perhaps that's the best way for him to go about his business, everything considered.

2. Datsyuk has become much more dominant everywhere on the ice. The guy just seems to be everywhere taking care of everything and we all want to see him like that. He's just gotten so much better.

With these sorts of factors in play I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that they don't play as well together. Perhaps they've just simply grown to the point where they don't instinctively rely on each other as much. And that's perfectly fine.

#48 Datsyerberger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:22 PM

Just to restate my thoughts on Carters contract and his post season play:

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#49 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:23 PM

Jeff Carter would be GREAT, $5 mil cap hit per year, 25 years old, signed through 2018-2019, he has 40-50 goal abilities. He would be a monster addition at a relatively low price. However, Philly will explore all options before dealing him.


Yeah it sure would be great. But we'd be waaaaaayyy too top heavy.

Carter's cap hit will be 5.27 million next season (until 2022). They'd have 22mil between 4 guys. Now if the Wings moved Filppula's 3mil somewhere else (Philly is trying to make cap room, so that'd be a no go) you could treat Carter as a 2.27 million dollar upgrade on Val's spot. Still, the Wings would be in a tough spot when Kronwall's contract expires.

I'd rather spend that money on the back end.
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#50 kipwinger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:28 PM

Yeah but Babs has always done that ever since he's coached here and the Euro Twins were fine from 06-08 and arguably parts of 09.

So what's changed? Only Pav and Z themselves in ways perhaps including but not limited to:

1. I feel like Zetterberg is trying to rely more on his smarts and intelligence to get him through games, especially the regular season, and less and less of the tenacity and determination that he showed as a young up and coming player. He's getting a little older, doesn't want to be injured and thus has to really pace himself if he wants to battle for a cup. He'll step up his energy if he really has to like when Datsyuk got injured this past year but if the Wings got all their horses then he's just preparing himself for the playoffs. And I don't want to come off as criticizing him at all. Perhaps that's the best way for him to go about his business, everything considered.

2. Datsyuk has become much more dominant everywhere on the ice. The guy just seems to be everywhere taking care of everything and we all want to see him like that. He's just gotten so much better.

With these sorts of factors in play I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that they don't play as well together. Perhaps they've just simply grown to the point where they don't instinctively rely on each other as much. And that's perfectly fine.



You're right on both accounts, and you wouldn't necessarily have to put them together if you signed Carter. But if they were, I don't think you'd be in too bad of shape.

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#51 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:32 PM

The other problem is that the Wings already have 2 forwards on life-time contracts. Adding another life-time forward will only make the future even murkier. At some point Z and Franzen will both be overpaid. That's a sacrifice Holland made to keep them cheap now. It's unreasonable to expect they will retire soon after their play drops below the expectations of their cap hits.

3 forwards on life-time contracts sets the Wings up for tough times in the future.

Just remember how people bitched and moaned about Rafalski being a bit overpaid this season. Given his production he was probably only overpaid by 0.5 to 1 million (at the most-- many would argue he was paid a reasonable amount based on where salaries are at right now). Zetterberg will eventually be overpaid by a significantly larger margin. It's highly unlikely a 36 year old Zetterberg will be worth 6 mil. I pray he will be, but few players are at that age (especially players with an injury history like his).
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#52 F.Michael

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:35 PM

I can't see the Flyers trading away Carter. He's too good and has too much upside. If anything, Holmgren will likely deal Versteeg and maybe Carle. He may have to let Leino leave as a UFA. The Flyers have alot of forward depth. Holmgren would likely deal Hartnell before Carter. All these Carter rumours are just speculation at this point.

Agreed.

I don't see the Flyers moving Carter anytime soon...Though the rumors bring back fond memories when we acquired Shanahan...That was just plain awesome!

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#53 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:43 PM

I just don't see anyone on Philly's roster that Holland would really want to trade for, unless he plans to go after one of their top six. Even then, the Wings wouldn't really be able to or want to match what other teams would offer because the organization's philosophy is to develop from within while other GMs will undoubtedly overpay for the Flyers' higher-caliber players.

#54 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:45 PM

Agreed.

I don't see the Flyers moving Carter anytime soon...Though the rumors bring back fond memories when we acquired Shanahan...That was just plain awesome!



Ah yes the memories. Shanahan and Brian Glynn for Keith Primeau, Paul Coffey and a 1st round pick. One of the best trades in Red Wings history. Got in a fight in his first game as a Red Wing. :thumbup:
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#55 F.Michael

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:50 PM

Ah yes the memories. Shanahan and Brian Glynn for Keith Primeau, Paul Coffey and a 1st round pick. One of the best trades in Red Wings history. Got in a fight in his first game as a Red Wing. :thumbup:

Yeah - I remember reading the Hockey News that Shanny wasn't happy in Hartford, and speculation of being traded began in the late spring/early summer of 1996...With Primeau sulking for the better portion of 4 years - it seemed like a match made in heaven.

Edited by F.Michael, 09 June 2011 - 02:51 PM.


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#56 Yak19

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:55 PM

Unloading Hudler and getting Carter seems too good to be true. Im guessing a prospect would have to go along with a 1st rounder or a 2nd&3rd rounder but still not getting my hopes up on this.

#57 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:25 PM

Tradeable top-six forwards the Wings have right now:

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Hudler, Holmstrom

Z and Dats won't be traded despite Philly's desire. Homer won't be traded, and Philly won't be interested anyway.

Leaves Flip, Mule, and Huds.

Flip is the logical core of a trade, because Franzen and Hudler are better suited to wing, while Flip is equally strong in all three spots. There would be a remaining core forwards of Richards, Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Versteeg, and Van Riemsdyk, plus a possibly returning Ville Leino. That would add up to seven top-six level forwards capable of 40+ points. Flip would, of course, not be the only piece in the deal, but would provide a faceoff man equal to Carter. Faceoffs are a key point as to why a Filppula/Abdelkader deal might work for Carter. Philly wouldn't trade away their only good faceoff man for a winger like Hudler, who is below average on faceoffs. Blair Betts, at 50.3%, and Claude Giroux (50.046%, or 548 wins and 547 losses) the only player signed for next season other than Carter (54.7%) who was better than a flat 50% who took more than 10 draws.

They will want a faceoff man back. They also can't take too much cap hit back because they need to clear space to sign Bryzgalov. Granted, the numbers being tossed around include both Bobrovsky and Leighton, one or both of whom will not be on the roster, so that's a bit of freedom. But sending Filppula, Abdelkader, Kindl/Smith, and a 1st might bring back Carter and one of Coburn/Carle/Meszaros. The reason I include Abby is because Philly desperately needs faceoff help. This deal allows them to sign Leino simply within the cap relief it provides, and they will have a full roster signed underneath the cap. Thing is, in real life they probably would have to make a deal like this, and then also either trade off Versteeg or not sign Leino, Or perhaps trade two of Carle/Coburn/Meszaros.

They have about $4.5m, give or take, under the cap right now (assuming Bobrovsky is the backup). They have to sign Bryz, Leino, Carcillo, Powe, Nodl, plus O'Donnell or a replacement. Probably looking at the neighborhood of $13m total for those six guys. So... clearing up $8.5m from the cap, are we? Versteeg sounds like a good bet. send him off for a pick and a depth forward or prospect. Cut $2.5m. Now we're at $6m. Let's make that Carter/Filppula deal. Say in the Steeger deal it was a prospect, so we can make Abs work as the replacement for him. Flip and Abs together cut about $4.5m from Carter and Versteeg. Kindl is a savings of $2.5 to $3.25 over Carle/Coburn/Meszaros. So now, all that needs to be cleared up is another $750k-$1.5m. Maybe cut Jody Shelley from the roster and you've got the difference and you drop one of the league-leaders in leaving his team shorthanded.

If Carter IS traded to the Wings in the kind of deal I proposed, I'd like to see a lineup as such:


With Draper:
Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Bertuzzi/Franzen/Mursak
Draper/Helm/Eaves
Miller/Emmerton

Without Draper:
Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Franzen/Emmerton/Bertuzzi
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Miller.

Yes. I realize that I put Emmerton on the third line and Helm on the fourth line. I'm not crazy. Emmerton is more suited to being a playmaking center for Franzen and Bertuzzi, and keeping the DHE (or the MHE, as it were) together as a checking line while putting a playmaker of Emmerton's skill on the third line is better than having no real checking line.

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#58 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:33 PM

Tradeable top-six forwards the Wings have right now:

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Hudler, Holmstrom

Z and Dats won't be traded despite Philly's desire. Homer won't be traded, and Philly won't be interested anyway.

Leaves Flip, Mule, and Huds.

Flip is the logical core of a trade, because Franzen and Hudler are better suited to wing, while Flip is equally strong in all three spots. There would be a remaining core forwards of Richards, Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Versteeg, and Van Riemsdyk, plus a possibly returning Ville Leino. That would add up to seven top-six level forwards capable of 40+ points. Flip would, of course, not be the only piece in the deal, but would provide a faceoff man equal to Carter. Faceoffs are a key point as to why a Filppula/Abdelkader deal might work for Carter. Philly wouldn't trade away their only good faceoff man for a winger like Hudler, who is below average on faceoffs. Blair Betts, at 50.3%, and Claude Giroux (50.046%, or 548 wins and 547 losses) the only player signed for next season other than Carter (54.7%) who was better than a flat 50% who took more than 10 draws.

They will want a faceoff man back. They also can't take too much cap hit back because they need to clear space to sign Bryzgalov. Granted, the numbers being tossed around include both Bobrovsky and Leighton, one or both of whom will not be on the roster, so that's a bit of freedom. But sending Filppula, Abdelkader, Kindl/Smith, and a 1st might bring back Carter and one of Coburn/Carle/Meszaros. The reason I include Abby is because Philly desperately needs faceoff help. This deal allows them to sign Leino simply within the cap relief it provides, and they will have a full roster signed underneath the cap. Thing is, in real life they probably would have to make a deal like this, and then also either trade off Versteeg or not sign Leino, Or perhaps trade two of Carle/Coburn/Meszaros.

They have about $4.5m, give or take, under the cap right now (assuming Bobrovsky is the backup). They have to sign Bryz, Leino, Carcillo, Powe, Nodl, plus O'Donnell or a replacement. Probably looking at the neighborhood of $13m total for those six guys. So... clearing up $8.5m from the cap, are we? Versteeg sounds like a good bet. send him off for a pick and a depth forward or prospect. Cut $2.5m. Now we're at $6m. Let's make that Carter/Filppula deal. Say in the Steeger deal it was a prospect, so we can make Abs work as the replacement for him. Flip and Abs together cut about $4.5m from Carter and Versteeg. Kindl is a savings of $2.5 to $3.25 over Carle/Coburn/Meszaros. So now, all that needs to be cleared up is another $750k-$1.5m. Maybe cut Jody Shelley from the roster and you've got the difference and you drop one of the league-leaders in leaving his team shorthanded.

If Carter IS traded to the Wings in the kind of deal I proposed, I'd like to see a lineup as such:


With Draper:
Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Bertuzzi/Franzen/Mursak
Draper/Helm/Eaves
Miller/Emmerton

Without Draper:
Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Franzen/Emmerton/Bertuzzi
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Miller.

Yes. I realize that I put Emmerton on the third line and Helm on the fourth line. I'm not crazy. Emmerton is more suited to being a playmaking center for Franzen and Bertuzzi, and keeping the DHE (or the MHE, as it were) together as a checking line while putting a playmaker of Emmerton's skill on the third line is better than having no real checking line.


I think Emmerton has to make the team first before he can centre a line. Hudler on the 2nd line and Franzen on the 3rd line? :lol: I'm sure Mule would just love going from having Hank feed him the puck to a rookie trying to make the team. We're not getting Carter.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#59 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:34 PM

Carter would be unreal. If we could get Coburn as well? :yowza: I dont care what anyone says, having a disappointing season+loads of cap space makes for a very exciting offseason.

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#60 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:36 PM

Heck lets ask for Mike Richards too! Richards, Carter, Coburn, a signed mouthguard of Bobby Clarke for Hudler, Kindl and Emmerton! Get er done Kenny!
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams





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