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Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?


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#61 Datsyerberger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:37 PM

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:siren:

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Posted Image Posted Image

Carter playoff stats:

47 gp 13g 21p -14 34 PIM

Last 3 playoffs' stats:

24 gp 7g 10p -10 12 PIM

Carter's contract:

Runs until 21-22, full NTC from 12-13 to 15-16, partial NTC thereafter. ~5.3m cap hit for Hudler-like playoff stats.

Gag.

Edit: FFS, Hudler's playoff stats are better:

61 gp 10g 31p +4 30 PIM

Last 3 playoffs:

55 gp 10g 29p +2 26 PIM

Edited by Datsyerberger, 09 June 2011 - 03:41 PM.

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#62 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:48 PM

I think Emmerton has to make the team first before he can centre a line. Hudler on the 2nd line and Franzen on the 3rd line? :lol: I'm sure Mule would just love going from having Hank feed him the puck to a rookie trying to make the team. We're not getting Carter.


Hudler is with Carter because Carter is a pure goal scorer. You put playmakers with goal scorers. If we get Carter for Flip (plus), which is the most likely swap, and put Z with Dats, who would you put as Carter's playmaker? Cleary? Helm? Draper? Hudler is the answer. Franzen on Emmerton's wing was primarily to allow for three strong scoring lines, but perhaps you can make one of these switches:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom (or Bertuzzi)
Hudler/Carter/Franzen
Cleary/Helm/Eaves
Mursak/Emmerton/Bertuzzi (or Holmstrom)
Miller

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Bertuzzi/Franzen/Miller
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Emmerton

Perhaps even:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Cleary
Hudler/Carter/Franzen
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Holmstrom/Emmerton/Bertuzzi
Miller.

Do you like those any better? And what wingers would you put with Carter that provide the goal-scorer a playmaker? I'd love to hear your answer. The Wings, assuming Flip and Abby are traded for Carter, would have three top-end playmaking forwards. Z, Dats, and Hudler.

So again: If Z and Dats are together, you put Hudler with your best remaining goal-scorer. Carter. If you like, you can put both Carter and Franzen on that line. Could be pretty wicked, especially as a second line.


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#63 j.hoop

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:36 PM

my brother is an avid flyers fan and cant wait to get rid of carter. he says he is lazy and lacks heart, also a party boy
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#64 Datsyerberger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:41 PM

my brother is an avid flyers fan and cant wait to get rid of carter. he says he is lazy and lacks heart, also a party boy


Yep. And his career playoff stats are worse than Hudler's career playoff stats. His last 3 years playoff stats are worse than Hudler's playoff stats.

Hudler's production in the playoffs * nearly 2x the cap hit + 9 more years + NTC = no thanks
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#65 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:59 PM

Sometimes I hate when people say oh such and such player sucks, playoffs are horrible, doesn't produce, etc. I understand the frustrations but sometimes its just a player doesn't fit well with that team. Look at Lieno, terrible here and tore it up in Philly. I think a change in scenes could spark something for Carter. I guess its all a risk.

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#66 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:03 PM

Yep. And his career playoff stats are worse than Hudler's career playoff stats. His last 3 years playoff stats are worse than Hudler's playoff stats.

Hudler's production in the playoffs * nearly 2x the cap hit + 9 more years + NTC = no thanks


I like Carter, I think he gets a bad rap because the Flyers in general have sucked it up. But if I had to pick a forward from the Flyers to take in a trade, it would be Richards. Not even a question. Carter would be a good fit as a goal-scoring center, or perhaps if he could adapt to be a winger for Dats (sick!) but Richards we already know can play wing, and is one of the league's top all-around players. His only real weakness is faceoffs; which is not really a problem in Detroit if you give him a linemate who can take draws. Franzen is one I can think of right off the bat. Franzen/Richards/Bertuzzi would be a pretty effective line. That's assuming, of course, Franzen didn't end up going the other way. Or just move Richards to the wing or teach him how to take faceoffs. Whatever works.
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#67 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:50 PM

I like Carter, I think he gets a bad rap because the Flyers in general have sucked it up. But if I had to pick a forward from the Flyers to take in a trade, it would be Richards. Not even a question. Carter would be a good fit as a goal-scoring center, or perhaps if he could adapt to be a winger for Dats (sick!) but Richards we already know can play wing, and is one of the league's top all-around players. His only real weakness is faceoffs; which is not really a problem in Detroit if you give him a linemate who can take draws. Franzen is one I can think of right off the bat. Franzen/Richards/Bertuzzi would be a pretty effective line. That's assuming, of course, Franzen didn't end up going the other way. Or just move Richards to the wing or teach him how to take faceoffs. Whatever works.


That sounds great to me! However I think you are on cloud 9 now. No way they would trade Richards. If they do I apologize and Holmgren is crazy! Richards or Carter would make me smile. I'd be glad to acquire either or.

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#68 Datsyerberger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:24 PM

I like Carter, I think he gets a bad rap because the Flyers in general have sucked it up. But if I had to pick a forward from the Flyers to take in a trade, it would be Richards. Not even a question. Carter would be a good fit as a goal-scoring center, or perhaps if he could adapt to be a winger for Dats (sick!) but Richards we already know can play wing, and is one of the league's top all-around players. His only real weakness is faceoffs; which is not really a problem in Detroit if you give him a linemate who can take draws. Franzen is one I can think of right off the bat. Franzen/Richards/Bertuzzi would be a pretty effective line. That's assuming, of course, Franzen didn't end up going the other way. Or just move Richards to the wing or teach him how to take faceoffs. Whatever works.


Carter has his upsides. He's good both defensively and as a goalscorer when he's on his game. The downside is that he's got questionable work ethic and consistency, and both show badly in the playoffs. He's got a bit of a bad rap for the Flyers choking, but I have no problem saying that he's been a large part of that problem (though it may be part of a 'clique' thing there, I wouldn't rule out that possibility).

Honestly, I'd rather just have one of their d-men and look elsewhere/cheaper for forward. Carle's offense at 3.5? I can stomach that. Coburn at 3.2? Hell yes. Timonen at 6.3 for 2 years? That's fine with me.
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#69 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:30 PM

That sounds great to me! However I think you are on cloud 9 now. No way they would trade Richards. If they do I apologize and Holmgren is crazy! Richards or Carter would make me smile. I'd be glad to acquire either or.


I don't expect to get either. They have $4.5m to sign 3 forwards, a defenseman, and Bryzgalov, plus perhaps another forward or defenseman.

Instead of trading out Carter or Richards, I would expect Versteeg to be the first out of town. He's easily the least important of their five highest paid forwards, and he's overpaid for what he provides on the ice. Deal him for a pick and a prospect, maybe sign a faceoff specialist like Draper to take his place. That's $2.5m in space freed up, and they still need to sign 3 forwards, a defenseman, and Bryz. Say Bryz costs $7m. Now we're flat even, and need to free up space to sign 3 forwards and a defenseman. Specifically Carcillo, Nodl, and Powe, plus O'Donnell or his replacement. We'll say the total cost there is $3m for those guys. So we need to free that up. Leino would also be nice. Our options are trading one of Meszaros/Carle/Coburn from the D, or trading one of Briere/Richards/Carter/Hartnell/Giroux from the forwards. What makes sense is to trade Meszaros for a decent young puck-moving defenseman who is still fairly inexpensive. This is where a deal with Detroit actually does work; trade Meszaros for Jakub Kindl plus perhaps a 2nd pick and you have the salary freed up. Philly isn't able to keep Leino like this, but by picking up Bryzgalov that wasn't happening, unless Leino stays for cheap.

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#70 IllinoisRedWingsFan

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 07:46 PM

Mursak, a 2nd, Abdelkader for Carter? For Coburn?

I'd HATE to have to part with Mursak as I think he'll be a reliable 20-40 point guy someday, but these two Flyers are studs and we know they need cap relief in a bad way. Maybe throw in our first and possibly Marshall to land both those guys?

I'd go for that deal in a minute. Heck I'd settle with Carter.

#71 Datsyerberger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:03 PM

Regarding that deal, I'd rather keep Mursak, Abdelkader, and the pick. Anything I'd trade for Carter would not be good value for Philly. Way too many ???s about him.
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#72 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:28 PM

Regarding that deal, I'd rather keep Mursak, Abdelkader, and the pick. Anything I'd trade for Carter would not be good value for Philly. Way too many ???s about him.


Mursak, Abby, and a 2nd for Carter is a steal. There's a good chance only one of Mursak or Abby will be a regular forward on the Wings this coming season. So we're looking at trading a young 4th liner and a young spare forward plus a pick for an elite goal scorer. And age isn't really that big of a factor; Carter is 26, Abdelkader is 24, Mursak is 23. So the only thing here is, do you think that keeping Mursak and Abdelkader, knowing that you'll get maybe 100-120 man-games between them next season and possibly the season after, do you think that beats out Carter's 70-80 games on immediate impact? And do you think having Carter long-term as a top-line caliber player while Mursak and Abdelkader develop into 3rd liners or potentially 2nd liners, and the Wings get a player with the pick who has to go through the development process... which helps the team out more in the next ten years?

I would say that trading for Carter, by a wide margin. If they take a Mursak/Abby deal instead of the Flip/Abby deal I posted, the Wings CAN'T refuse. It would be stupid. The Wings would be able to dress lines like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Franzen/Filppula/Bertuzzi
Draper/Helm/Eaves

Franzen/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi
Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Hudler/Carter/Cleary
Draper/Helm/Eaves

Zetterberg/Carter/Cleary
Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom
Franzen/Hudler/Bertuzzi
Draper/Helm/Eaves

Most NHL teams would be happy with any of those first three lines as their top line. One to test out of course would be Franzen/Carter/Bertuzzi... but I don't see that one working out very well.

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#73 redwingfan19

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:36 PM

what about meszaros? he would be great in a wings uniform :)
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#74 Buppy

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:38 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread, something that may be overlooked is Laperriere's status. He's on a 35+ deal, LTIR'd for all of last year, and last word was basically that playing again could be life threatening. He has a cap hit of $1.16 that the Flyers may be stuck with.

If that happens, the cap goes up to $63M, they sign Bryz for $6M, and dump Versteeg, Carle, and both of their other goalies they'd have $7.85M to sign an entire 3rd line + 4th line forward + 3rd pair D + backup goalie + 1-3 depth players. It's a tight fit.

Maybe they think having say Hudler + Leino for the same price as Carter + a minimum wage plug would be better. Maybe add a cheap but attractive prospect like Tatar who could either fill a third line role or be sent to the AHL, and a cheap defenseman with some upside...

Hudler, Tatar, Kindl, 1st, + 3rd (plus maybe Emmerton or Andersson) for Carter and Carle. I think it makes both teams better (though I don't know what prospects Philly already has to fill holes cheaply, so maybe not).

FORWARDS
Ville Leino ($3.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($1.250m)
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Zenon Konopka ($0.750m) / Darroll Powe ($0.950m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Sean O'Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($6.000m) / Brian Boucher ($0.950m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,673,928; BONUSES: $1,110,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $326,072

----------

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Drew Miller ($0.850m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)
Kris Draper ($0.750m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Jay Harrison ($1.500m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Derek Meech ($0.550m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,160,605; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $839,395

#75 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:13 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread, something that may be overlooked is Laperriere's status. He's on a 35+ deal, LTIR'd for all of last year, and last word was basically that playing again could be life threatening. He has a cap hit of $1.16 that the Flyers may be stuck with.

If that happens, the cap goes up to $63M, they sign Bryz for $6M, and dump Versteeg, Carle, and both of their other goalies they'd have $7.85M to sign an entire 3rd line + 4th line forward + 3rd pair D + backup goalie + 1-3 depth players. It's a tight fit.

Maybe they think having say Hudler + Leino for the same price as Carter + a minimum wage plug would be better. Maybe add a cheap but attractive prospect like Tatar who could either fill a third line role or be sent to the AHL, and a cheap defenseman with some upside...

Hudler, Tatar, Kindl, 1st, + 3rd (plus maybe Emmerton or Andersson) for Carter and Carle. I think it makes both teams better (though I don't know what prospects Philly already has to fill holes cheaply, so maybe not).


The problem is, as I've stated before, Carter is Philly's go-to faceoff guy. They won't be dealing him without getting a faceoff guy back. Your deal would either have to see Abdelkader added, or Hudler swapped out for Filppula. Ultimately I don't see it going down without Filppula going the other way; Franzen is good on draws and a good player, but he's older than Carter, worse defensively, and a worse passer. Similar in that both are snipers first, but there's not enough cap relief there. Especially with what is lost. Flip has everything Carter does except the shot. And that's a $2.25m difference, which if Philly is lucky might be enough to buy Leino's shot.

what about meszaros? he would be great in a wings uniform :)


Post about Meszaros

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#76 Barrie

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:22 PM

Why would the Flyers trade Carter?

It's a pipe dream.
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#77 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:31 PM

Carter a Wing? Yes please.

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#78 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:45 PM

Look like the Jackets are interested as well.

http://www.dispatch....on.html?sid=101

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#79 Datsyerberger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:48 PM

[font="Book Antiqua"]
Mursak, Abby, and a 2nd for Carter is a steal.


The trade is a steal value-wise but it's not a fit for the Wings cap or roster wise at all. Philly wouldn't go for it at all in any case, don't need cheap depth on the wings.
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#80 Barrie

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:20 PM

I'd be all for bringing Carter here, however we already have Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Franzen signed to lifetime contracts. I don't see adding another lifetime contract up front with Rafalski retired and Lidstrom a year or two away as well.
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