77 replies to this topic

[WorkingOvertime]

Skilled players play in more offensive roles and top line minutes. Skilled players are more valuable. The same applies to the draft. Rarely it's wise to pick physicality or size etc. over skill in the early rounds. You can dominate with size in the junior leagues if you're more mature physically already. Some players mature earlier, but in the end it's the potential you look for - and skill will become more important in time.

I would agree with you if the Wings had a top-10 pick, but the better skill players all go within the top-10. I'm fine with the Wings picking a shut-down dman in the first round if he is projected to be a good shut-down dman in the NHL. The Wings need players to make it to the NHL and not be fringe players, regardless of role. IMO the Wings are just as likely (or more likely) to find a skilled forward in the other rounds (not round one) than the are at the bottom of the first round. Therefore, picking a shut-down dman is not a wasted pick.

If Biggs is available, I want the Wings to pick him, but he will probably go earlier.

EDIT- All of the skilled players that are near-ready NHLers are taken before the Wings will pick. Any top-line talents will likely have to be a high-risk player, and that should occur in later rounds.

Edited by WorkingOvertime, 11 June 2011 - 09:16 PM.

[mjlegend]

Myles Bell has some very serious and significant legal problems to go through in the next while.

[Finnish Wing]

I would agree with you if the Wings had a top-10 pick, but the better skill players all go within the top-10. I'm fine with the Wings picking a shut-down dman in the first round if he is projected to be a good shut-down dman in the NHL. The Wings need players to make it to the NHL and not be fringe players, regardless of role. IMO the Wings are just as likely (or more likely) to find a skilled forward in the other rounds (not round one) than the are at the bottom of the first round. Therefore, picking a shut-down dman is not a wasted pick.

If Biggs is available, I want the Wings to pick him, but he will probably go earlier.

You as a Red Wings fan should know that's absolutely rubbish.

[Konnan511]

Myles Bell has some very serious and significant legal problems to go through in the next while.

Is he the guy who killed a girl by drunk driving?

[Datsyerberger]

Is he the guy who killed a girl by drunk driving?

Yea, I believe that's the guy. Under-aged drunk driving, even. Oops.

[Konnan511]

Yea, I believe that's the guy. Under-aged drunk driving, even. Oops.

Do. Not. Want.

[WorkingOvertime]

You as a Red Wings fan should know that's absolutely rubbish.

And you as a Red Wings fan should also know that. Therefore, they don't need to pick a skilled player in the first round. Most of the time first round picks are not high-risk and the Wings can afford to wait. I'd rather pick a stay at home dman that is a promising top four player than one who needs more development to be a top six forward. That is what the later rounds are for.

[Never_Retire_Steve]

I think that he could be a decent pick if he's still available in the second round but seems like too high of pick for me

[Drake_Marcus]

Freshman girls gain 20-30 pounds all the time with ease over the course of a school year. If they can do it, so can Khocklachev. I grew about an inch and a half my first couple years of college and a lot of people I know continue to grow until their early 20s.

So again. Why is it ok for Mayfield to grow, but Khocklachev can't?

Adding 20-30 pounds of lean muscle while maintaining a fitness level required for professional hockey is significantly more difficult than putting on 20-30 pounds of fat at the school cafeteria.

Is he the guy who killed a girl by drunk driving?

Jesus. We don't need that s*** in the NHL. We should be proud of how few NHL players find themselves in legal trouble like that.

[Doc Holliday]

And you as a Red Wings fan should also know that. Therefore, they don't need to pick a skilled player in the first round. Most of the time first round picks are not high-risk and the Wings can afford to wait. I'd rather pick a stay at home dman that is a promising top four player than one who needs more development to be a top six forward. That is what the later rounds are for.

I'd rather pick a first rounder projected as a first rounder and a second rounder who is projected as a second rounder than pick the second rounder in the first and hope that same first rounder doesn't get picked before the late second round.

There is a reason guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were picked so late. They weren't in high demand so there was no need to use an early pick on them.

[Konnan511]

Adding 20-30 pounds of lean muscle while maintaining a fitness level required for professional hockey is significantly more difficult than putting on 20-30 pounds of fat at the school cafeteria.



Jesus. We don't need that s*** in the NHL. We should be proud of how few NHL players find themselves in legal trouble like that.

Weight is weight And as I pointed out, Tatar was able to do it and he's smaller than said Russian prospect.

[newfy]

I am personally aware of this, but the problem is some arent, and since the draft is made up of both NA Skaters and EU Skaters his 24 ranking is not a valid assessment of where he will be drafted, hes much closer to 45 than 25. So the way you put in in your response made it sound like he was ranked mid 20s in all skaters which is not true and only one of the NHL mock drafts have him going to the Ducks the rest hes not first round.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69366
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69367
http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=68729

Im not sure which mocks you are looking at? Those all have him going right around the wings pick. Your stattement that he'll be closer to 45 than 25 is way off base.

Where did you get that notion from?

I've asked you a million times, why can your guy get bigger but mine can't? You've never answered it, instead, you've done nothing but belittle me and make condescending remarks towards me.

And he's listed as 5'11" from the latest reports I've seen. Also, tatar put on 20 lbs of muscle in one seasona nd he's smaller than Khocklache, but I see how it's easy to forget to mention that.

I have answered you plenty of times. I never said your prospect cant get bigger, its just not as likely that a 5'10 prospect will grow 2 inches and 30 lbs compared to a guy who is 6'4 gaining about 20 lbs. So once again, like I've said your prospect sure could grow but even if he does somehow squeak out another inch and a half he is still south of 6 feet. Is it that hard to realize that a guy with a 6'4 frame has more chances of adding 20 lbs than a guy who is 5'10 to grow 2 inches PLUS gain 30?

And even with Tatar gaining that much weight, he is still only 186 pounds. Not big at all for an NHL player.

I guess its not surprising though, of course people wouldnt want Mayfield.. This is the site that was screaming for Kabanov at 21st overall last year and would have rather had him over Sheahan.

[Doc Holliday]

I guess its not surprising though, of course people wouldnt want Mayfield.. This is the site that was screaming for Kabanov at 21st overall last year and would have rather had him over Sheahan.

I will never understand how primarily North American posters have some "Euro" bias.

Can someone explain this to me?

[Konnan511]

http://www.nhl.com/i...ge.htm?id=69366
http://www.nhl.com/i...ge.htm?id=69367
http://www.mynhldraf...NHL-Mock-Draft/
http://www.nhl.com/i...ge.htm?id=68729

Im not sure which mocks you are looking at? Those all have him going right around the wings pick. Your stattement that he'll be closer to 45 than 25 is way off base.


I have answered you plenty of times. I never said your prospect cant get bigger, its just not as likely that a 5'10 prospect will grow 2 inches and 30 lbs compared to a guy who is 6'4 gaining about 20 lbs. So once again, like I've said your prospect sure could grow but even if he does somehow squeak out another inch and a half he is still south of 6 feet. Is it that hard to realize that a guy with a 6'4 frame has more chances of adding 20 lbs than a guy who is 5'10 to grow 2 inches PLUS gain 30?

And even with Tatar gaining that much weight, he is still only 186 pounds. Not big at all for an NHL player.

I guess its not surprising though, of course people wouldnt want Mayfield.. This is the site that was screaming for Kabanov at 21st overall last year and would have rather had him over Sheahan.

I love Sheahan and thought that was a great pick.

I NEVER once said it's easier to gain weight being 5'11" than being 6'4". That's something you keep saying and somehow got fixated on and keep regurgitating.

Khocklachev is 5'11" and will probably grow another inch or he might not. He is 176 pounds and can gain 20 pounds in one summer just like Tatar did with ease and also keep adding more muscle like Tatar is. So that's a highly skilled 6' 196+ pound speedster who is just as good of a finisher as he is a creative play-maker. I don't see what's wrong with that type of player.

[WorkingOvertime]

I'd rather pick a first rounder projected as a first rounder and a second rounder who is projected as a second rounder than pick the second rounder in the first and hope that same first rounder doesn't get picked before the late second round.

There is a reason guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were picked so late. They weren't in high demand so there was no need to use an early pick on them.

In more than half of the mock-drafts I've seen, he has been projected to go in the first round. Obviously, it would be nice to grab a player that is projected in the top-20 that falls to the Wings position, but that isn't likely. Picks 25-40 are often mixed based on what a team needs, and I think the Wings could use a shut-down dman in their system. I'm not sold on Mayfield by any means, but I don't agree with the posters who believe the Wings need to pick a skilled forward in the first round.

Edited by WorkingOvertime, 12 June 2011 - 08:41 AM.

[newfy]

I will never understand how primarily North American posters have some "Euro" bias.

Can someone explain this to me?

Its not a NA bias. Its the fact that some people on here are in love with the softer, skilled eruropean players. I dont care where a defenseman is from that plays an amazing shutdown game, we're talking about the best or second (Oleksiak is right there) in this entire draft. Kabanov is a great example of this. He was a flashy stick handler so almost this entire website was calling for him last year in the first round, he didnt end up going til the 4th to the islanders and is now a borderline bust already.

Give me a Jiri Fischer or Konstintinov, I dont care where youre from, I care how you play.

I've shown that in pretty much every mock, Mayfield is going in the first round, often ahead of Detroits pick and noone has yet shown a mock to verify that he will be going closer to 45 than 25 or is a mid second rounder. He isnt a flashy player, just liek adam Foote, Hatcher, Luke Schenn etc are/were not. So of course because he isnt flashy people on here are going to call for someone else in the first round, regardless of the fact the wings want to add size to their prospect pool, lack any top end, stellar defensive defenseman and lack a mean streak. Instead a 5'10, skilled, small forward is being praised while all of our top prospects except Smith are Tatar, Nyquist, Mursak, Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen. The only big forward prospect we have is Sheahan, the rest are south of 6 feet.

I dunno just look at all those mocks I listed earlier, I think only one has Kholkalachev going in the first round, and its after Mayfield. The rest have Mayfield going right around the wings pick, yet there are some people in here trying to make me sound like an idiot for saying we should take him.

Whats with the bias against big, tough players is a better question to ask.

I love Sheahan and thought that was a great pick.

I NEVER once said it's easier to gain weight being 5'11" than being 6'4". That's something you keep saying and somehow got fixated on and keep regurgitating.

Khocklachev is 5'11" and will probably grow another inch or he might not. He is 176 pounds and can gain 20 pounds in one summer just like Tatar did with ease and also keep adding more muscle like Tatar is. So that's a highly skilled 6' 196+ pound speedster who is just as good of a finisher as he is a creative play-maker. I don't see what's wrong with that type of player.

And I never once said your guy wouldnt grow at all, thats some notion you got. You keep going on about how I said that, all I said was its unlikely for someone to for sure grow 2 inches and gain 30 lbs. Sure some prospects do it but its the rule not the exception.

There is also nothing wrong with that type of player, but it isnt what the wings need now at all. There is a big, tough stay at home defender who also has the potential to put up 30 points a year while being one of the best shut down guys in his whole draft projected to go right at where the wings pick, the wings DO NOT need another forward who 5'10 and undersized. Especially one who is more of a reach at 24 than Mayfield is.

[Shaman464]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69366
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69367
http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=68729

Im not sure which mocks you are looking at? Those all have him going right around the wings pick. Your stattement that he'll be closer to 45 than 25 is way off base.


I have answered you plenty of times. I never said your prospect cant get bigger, its just not as likely that a 5'10 prospect will grow 2 inches and 30 lbs compared to a guy who is 6'4 gaining about 20 lbs. So once again, like I've said your prospect sure could grow but even if he does somehow squeak out another inch and a half he is still south of 6 feet. Is it that hard to realize that a guy with a 6'4 frame has more chances of adding 20 lbs than a guy who is 5'10 to grow 2 inches PLUS gain 30?

And even with Tatar gaining that much weight, he is still only 186 pounds. Not big at all for an NHL player.

I guess its not surprising though, of course people wouldnt want Mayfield.. This is the site that was screaming for Kabanov at 21st overall last year and would have rather had him over Sheahan.

Morreale's drafts are all jokes, in one of them he doesn't even have Joel Armia drafted in the first round.

The WC NHL scout draft was done awhile ago, and as I can attest to with mock drafts from last year a few months changes where players go a lot. (See Pulu, he went from top ten to 4th round).

MyNHLDraft.com or whatever it is doesn't seem like a reliable source for rankings, it could be, but again from looking at it, I don't think the person who put it together knows a lot about NHL prospects...

If you look at the three featured mock drafts, only one has Mayfield going in the first round, and that one is to the ducks who have a history of going after his style of player. Again as I pointed out earlier hes not going to be ready for when the Wings D corp will need to be replenished and going after a skilled forward has another advantage, the Wings could always trade a couple skilled forward prospects for a defenseman. If hes still available in round two that would be a great pick up for the wings, but with all the forward skill that looks to be available (and if your drafts are right Armia might be one of them) I say the wings would be stupid not to pick up a forward.

[newfy]

Morreale's drafts are all jokes, in one of them he doesn't even have Joel Armia drafted in the first round.

The WC NHL scout draft was done awhile ago, and as I can attest to with mock drafts from last year a few months changes where players go a lot. (See Pulu, he went from top ten to 4th round).

MyNHLDraft.com or whatever it is doesn't seem like a reliable source for rankings, it could be, but again from looking at it, I don't think the person who put it together knows a lot about NHL prospects...

If you look at the three featured mock drafts, only one has Mayfield going in the first round, and that one is to the ducks who have a history of going after his style of player. Again as I pointed out earlier hes not going to be ready for when the Wings D corp will need to be replenished and going after a skilled forward has another advantage, the Wings could always trade a couple skilled forward prospects for a defenseman. If hes still available in round two that would be a great pick up for the wings, but with all the forward skill that looks to be available (and if your drafts are right Armia might be one of them) I say the wings would be stupid not to pick up a forward.

There is actually four featured mocks on NHL.com and he is first round in 2 of them, and plenty of others I have seen. I am still waiting to see any that have him going anywhere close to 45 or in the mid second round?

I have seen plenty more of Kokhlachev or however you spell it not in the first round than I have of Mayfield. Yes obviously if some amazing forward slips for whatever reason, the wings should take him. Khoklachev is not a better prospect than Mayfield is at this point, and there are way more mocks with him going second round than Mayfield but for whatwever reason since he is small and skilled, there is a fascination on here to take him and for some reason there are people trying to say that Mayfield will go mid second round while we should pick up another small, skilled forward.

Can you show me any of these mocks youre talking about where Mayfield is going close to 45 or mid second round?

[WorkingOvertime]

Morreale's drafts are all jokes, in one of them he doesn't even have Joel Armia drafted in the first round.

The WC NHL scout draft was done awhile ago, and as I can attest to with mock drafts from last year a few months changes where players go a lot. (See Pulu, he went from top ten to 4th round).

MyNHLDraft.com or whatever it is doesn't seem like a reliable source for rankings, it could be, but again from looking at it, I don't think the person who put it together knows a lot about NHL prospects...

If you look at the three featured mock drafts, only one has Mayfield going in the first round, and that one is to the ducks who have a history of going after his style of player. Again as I pointed out earlier hes not going to be ready for when the Wings D corp will need to be replenished and going after a skilled forward has another advantage, the Wings could always trade a couple skilled forward prospects for a defenseman. If hes still available in round two that would be a great pick up for the wings, but with all the forward skill that looks to be available (and if your drafts are right Armia might be one of them) I say the wings would be stupid not to pick up a forward.

The Wings are very weak in defensive prospects, especially in shut-down defensemen. Other than Smith, I don't think any of the dmen in the Wings system have the ability to be in the top-4. Almqvist has a chance to be very good, but he is projected to be an offensive defensemen. As we're seeing this year (and looking into next year), getting a good NHL top-4 defenseman is difficult. I don't think the Wings need to draft a shut-down dman in the first round, but it is a weakness in the Wings system that needs to be addressed.

[redwingfan19]

The Wings are very weak in defensive prospects, especially in shut-down defensemen. Other than Smith, I don't think any of the dmen in the Wings system have the ability to be in the top-4. Almqvist has a chance to be very good, but he is projected to be an offensive defensemen. As we're seeing this year (and looking into next year), getting a good NHL top-4 defenseman is difficult. I don't think the Wings need to draft a shut-down dman in the first round, but it is a weakness in the Wings system that needs to be addressed.

Don't forget about Lashoff, but your right.

The Wings have nothing remotely close to a defensive D man besides Lashoff, actually, the Wings only have 3 D men in the system that even really have a shot to even be a factor in the NHL.

Hope Kenny takes Mayfield if he is there when the Wings pick and he goes D heavy this draft.