Filppula & The Selke

[Z and D for the C 712]

I would disagree with top 15 centers. Think about it. Even on his own team, you have Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, and Darren Helm. That's three already. Now let's go around the division. In Chicago there's Jonathan Toews and Dave Bolland. Columbus has Sami Pahlsson. Nashville has Jerred Smithson. St. Louis has Jay McClement.

So within the division there are eight centers better defensively than Flip. Granted, Pahlsson is practically retired and a guy like McClement isn't going to win a Selke, but that wasn't your criteria.

So do you think there are fewer than seven centers throughout the rest of the league who are better than Filppula defensively? How about Ryan Kesler, Patrice Bergeron, Mikko Koivu, Travis Zajac, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and Jordan Staal? I figure there are more, as well. I believe Filppula would fall into the top 45 forwards defensively, but center holds an even higher percentage of the top defensive forwards than it does of offensive forwards, so he's not cracking that group.

Helm being better than Fil defensively is hysterical. He really isn't that great on the PK even. He works hard and he skates fast (and those are the two reasons he's on the PK), but he gets himself out of position a lot as well. Multiple goals were scored this year because of it.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Z and D for the C

[Guest Crymson]

Helm being better than Fil defensively is hysterical. He really isn't that great on the PK even. He works hard and he skates fast (and those are the two reasons he's on the PK), but he gets himself out of position a lot as well. Multiple goals were scored this year because of it.

Hudler is better than both of them.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Hudler is better than both of them.

[eva unit zero 271]

Helm being better than Fil defensively is hysterical. He really isn't that great on the PK even. He works hard and he skates fast (and those are the two reasons he's on the PK), but he gets himself out of position a lot as well. Multiple goals were scored this year because of it.

The same happens to Flip. Everyone gets out of position sometimes. I can recall a few goals this year where Flip went behind Howard to try and nab the puck carrier, leaving the front of the net uncovered because he was either trying to do someone else's job or leaving a more important spot.

Are you aking the argument that getting caught out of position, or doing so in a certain way, puts a defensive skill level on someone? Because then you can go ahead and mark Hudler as a highly skilled defensive forward, as the only notable goal scored due directly to his being out of position was the Boyle goal in the Sharks series - which was IDENTICAL to Boyle's goal the previous play, when Helm was the "victim".

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Keep in mind that my conclusion he has a chance in finishing top 5 in voting later in his career when his play further solidifies, and that this chance increases without Dats and Z eating votes... not that I think he's one of the top 5 fowards defensively (I'd feel fairly confident putting him in the top 15 centers defensively, though).

Hmmm, I would put him around 15-20 right now with some younger guys than him in that list, throw in the fact that you will have guys coming up through the minors/juniors and there is no way that he gets a Selke nod.

[kipwinger 8,492]

I like how this post has devolved from a very reasonable OP which acknowledged that Filppula isn't the best defensive forward in the league, wasn't going to win a Selke, but was nonetheless a very talented defender who is likely in the upper eschelon of defensive forwards in the league, but who gets little notice because of his unassuming style and more able teammates.

So what does everybody start arguing about immediately? 1) Flip isn't the best defensive forward in the league. 2) He's never going to win a Selke. 3) He's good but not even the best on his team. 4) His style is unassuming and doesn't draw a lot of attention.

Way to go you hockey gurus, you've certainly enlightened everyone except the original poster or anyone with reading comprehension skills more developed than an ape.