763 replies to this topic

[ShanahanMan]

Just out of curiosity, who are these younger, faster guys who are capable of scoring? Are they available in this summer's UFA group? I don't think so. This is an extraordinarily weak summer for scorers. The team has a large amount of cap space, and Jagr can be had for a year without boxing anybody else out.

As for Richards---given your penchant for wanting instant gratification (i.e. at the trade deadline every year)--it wouldn't surprise me if you thought Holland should throw $8m at him.



It's a good thing you're so incredibly up in arms about this. After all, we on this board will be the ones who will actually determine whether or not Jagr will actually be a member of the organization. Did you not know that?

True, but I still believe it's better to wait until July 1st to throw some offers around than to offer 2 mil to a question mark player before FA even begins. Who knows, maybe Richards would be willing to come at a cheaper price for a multi-year deal or sign a discounted one year for a chance at the cup (ala Hossa).....not super likely, but still possible. Plus, there ARE other guys that would be a better pickup than Jagar for 2 mil. For example, I think Laich at 3 - 3.5 is mil a ton better than Jagar at 2 mil. Signing Jagar for that amount would just significantly reduce our options. 1 mil I could deal with, but 2.....come on.

The dude has played in Russia for the last 3 freakin years. Can't you guys understand the impact this will have? I mean, we all know it did wonders for Hudler. It's simply a huge risk to sign the guy after that kind of stint, not to mention to do so at 39.

[amato]

yea true true but jagr can skate pass shoot when we're breaking in then when we have control stand in front. him and homer can do that on both our power plays.. sure homer can still have pp1 i guess. it doesnt really matter... point is, he'd help out our pp

edit: either way (if we get jagr or not) the wings need to work on their pp. it was pretty awful against the sharks

Edited by amato, 22 June 2011 - 12:51 PM.

[Diluvian04]

I personally don't believe Jagr will come to Detroit but rather go to Pittsburgh instead. I could be wrong but it's just a hunch. He lived in Pittsburgh before and is familiar with the area. Most players who consider playing for their former teams usually go back toward the end of their careers.

Unless Detroit overpays for him which they don't normally do. On top of that I hope they don't get him because I think we can all agree that they need to get younger.

[dragonballgtz]

yea true true but jagr can skate pass shoot when we're breaking in then when we have control stand in front. him and homer can do that on both our power plays.. sure homer can still have pp1 i guess. it doesnt really matter... point is, he'd help out our pp

edit: either way (if we get jagr or not) the wings need to work on their pp. it was pretty awful against the sharks

Just like the offense during the entire year it wasn't consistent enough. Periods of looking good then periods of it looking like total ass.

[ogreslayer]

I bet that as soon as I talk myself into believing that signing Jagr could work, he'll turn around that same day & sign with Pittsburgh. I really do wonder who that 3rd mystery team may be though. Edmonton?

[Datsyukian-Deke]

Personally it doesn't matter if we do get him or not. The wings problem last season was never scoring, but rather their defense and injury problems. They were second in league scoring only scoring one goal less than Vancouver. They need to focus less on getting another big scorer and more on fixing our blatant holes on defense. We won alot of games last year but it seemed that we were always winning games 5-4 instead of 3-1. If they get jagr, fine but Kenny needs to get two solid defensemen instead of throwing money at a guy like Richards. The wings offense will be fine this year if they can stay healthy especially since all the injuries we have had over the past two seasons (and there have been alot!) have made it very difficult for any lines to build any chemistry come playoff time.

That being said, Jagr had a quote saying he still has a house in pittsburgh because he was too lazy to sell it. If he is too lazy to sell a house, is he going to have the work ethic for this team?

[esteef]

Update:
Jagr Watch Continues

""We had more discussion yesterday with Detroit and Pittsburgh," Jagr's agent, Petr Svoboda, told ESPN.com on Wednesday morning. "Jags may be talking with [Pens GM] Ray Shero and maybe [owner] Mario [Lemieux] today, so hopefully we'll be further along after that. Hopefully we'll have some news, one way or another, soon."

Having said that, Svoboda didn't think a resolution was coming Wednesday, so the waiting will continue for a bit. In the meantime, we asked Svoboda about the widespread theory among some hockey observers that the talks with Detroit and Pittsburgh are all about extracting more money from a KHL team in Russia.

"It's absolutely not true," said Svoboda. "I've heard that, but it's not true. I mean, there's always that option if things don't work out with [the NHL], but this is not about trying to get more money from [the KHL]. I know Jags wants to come back to the NHL and for the right reasons."

(It should be noted that Jagr has a different person representing him in his KHL talks.)

Another quick Jagr note: Some Bruins fans via Twitter were asking us whether the Cup champs might be that third, mysterious team showing interest in Jagr. Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli, via text, said "No" to us when we asked him that Wednesday. For that matter, the Kings, Canucks, Blackhawks and Sabres also told us they're not involved on the Jagr front (again, because fans were asking us)."

esteef

[ami]

Lets sever one of your tendons and see how well you can perform your job...

Oh, please retire this argument already. It is as old as Jagr.

After all, we on this board will be the ones who will actually determine whether or not Jagr will actually be a member of the organization. Did you not know that?

After all, everybody seems to forget that the sport of hockey is for fans, meaning us. Also, everybody seems to forget about Uve Krupp...

[Din758]

Im not sure its fair to compare Jagr to Hudler in regards to the playing in KHL. Its obvious that it didnt work for Huds, but Jagr is about 10x the player Happy is.

[Din758]

From Twitter:RobRossi_Trib

Heard from someone just now Jagr really wants #Pens to come through, that Pittsburgh is where he wants to be. #tribpens #jagrwatch

Edited by Din758, 22 June 2011 - 02:54 PM.

[TheDetroitRedWings]

Jagr would be an almost guaranteed 60 point player for us, if not more than that. I have absolutely no problem with signing him to a one year deal. In fact, I'm really crossing my fingers that he'll be a Red Wing next season.

[eva unit zero]

Come on...as much as anyone can worry and speculate and feel uncomfortable about having Jagr on your team, it's impossible to not be somewhat excited about it as well. You're talking about one of the all time greats who has still looked good the last few years. And for either us or Pittsburgh, you're talking about playing him with a class of players that far exceed the quality of those found in the KHL.

Jagr and Datsyuk???

Of course Lidstrom is excited!

I get the reservations. I've got them too...plenty of them.

But come on...anyone who says that there's not at least a small (or large) part of them excited about the possibility of Jagr as a Wing is lying.

Yes, the idea of Datsyuk/Jagr sounds great if you assume Jagr still has "it". Of course, he's been playing in the KHL with international ice and rules for a couple of years now... how will that affect his return to the league? Hudler certainly didn't have the best start. Granted, playing with Datsyuk SHOULD give anyone a jump-start so I don't foresee a problem there. As for the Jagr vs. Modano thing? The Modano signing wasn't a mistake because of his injury.

I don't know how people continue to think they can logically justify the idea of the Modano signing being a mistake when a freak injury wholly and completely derailed his season. It's getting way past fuzzy logic and heading straight into "stupid" territory. No, make that "stoopid" territory. That's right...with two "O's."

Again, Modano got injured and missed half the season. Its tough for ANY player to get up to speed after missing that much, not to mention he was 40 and on a new team, learning a new system. As for signing aging vets, its a strategy that's worked many times in the past. We signed Hull when he was 37, Robitaille when he was 35, traded for Hasek when he was 37, re-signed him years later when he was 42. Guys like Yzerman, Shanahan, Osgood, Lidstrom, Chelios, Larionov, Fetisov were all re-signing in their late 30's, mid 40's and were very effective for us. Giving up on signing older players because this ONE player got injured and didn't work out isn't a good idea.

Modano was injured in his 20th game. He had scored two goals and eight points by that point. Now, let's look at something for comparison. Pretty much everyone on the board thinks Jiri Hudler was useless, terrible, worthless, whatever you want to call it. Neither Modano nor Hudler provided any kind of defensive help or physical play in that period, so we'll go based just on scoring. So let's look at Hudler's offensive numbers through November 26th. And the envelope says...

17 GP, 1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points.

Compared to Modano's 20 GP, 2 goals, 6 assists, and 8 points... is there really any significant difference?

There's the argument that Modano was still learning the system. That's a reasonable thought for a slow start. But Modano was either still learning the system or refusing to play within it at the end of the season. So it doesn't hold up. If he couldn't learn the system over the entire season, he wasn't going to be a useful player. If he wasn't going to play the system, he wouldn't have been much help. And one of those reasons, combined with his injury, are why he ended up playing himself out of the lineup. The only reason he was able to stay in for so long is because of Hudler's slump. If Hudler starts off scoring on pace for 70 points (Babcock's "expectation") and Modano is still playing like that with those numbers... there's no way he stays in the lineup. Modano was also basically relegated to third line duty in Dallas and then kicked out. The guys you bring up (Hull, Hasek, Robitaille were still producing at a high level when they were brought in. Jagr is an unknown quantity, so we can't say whether he'll be a huge success or a massive failure. But one thing is certain; his puck control style of play fits the Wings' system far better than Modano's run-and-gun offense ever would. So even if Jagr has deteriorated to Modano's level of skill, he'll be far more effective due to his ability to fit in the system easily.

How much was Modano's contract again? I forgot he was supposed to come in and be a ppg player. 7 points in 20 games which included gelling with a new team and new system. I'm sorry he was a depth signing he was suppose to come in and try to put up around 40 points which if he got comfortable I bet could have happened.

Also richards bieksa and Wiz... Do you want to be the one to tell lidstrom ge HAS to retire next season because we have all if our Money locked up on those guys and won't be able to give raises to kronwall and others. Yes we would all love all the best players in free agency but sorry richards 80-90 points for 7.5 million < jagr 40-50 points at 2 million... Which is nicer on the cap and allows us to fix our D situation while not handcuffing our self next season?

Sure, sure. Modano WOULD have had 40 points, WOULD have put up a fair share of goals, WOULD have saved the team. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Fact is, he stunk and was benched for a reason.

40-50 points for a guy who is 39 and hasn't played in the NHL in 3 years? Are you serious? We'd be LUCKY if he broke 20, with maybe 7 of those points being goals.

Jeez, can Holland not pick up someone in free agency over 36 for once?

Jagr, if he plays top-six on the Wings, will probably score in the 50 point range. As for goals, depends on who he's with as for how many of those points are goals; last season Datsyuk scored more goals than he had assists while he was with Hudler, even though he was scoring points at basically the same rate. A Bertuzzi/Franzen/Jagr line (sounds nice, actually... alternate option for my Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi line?) would see Jagr end up with a lot of assists, while a Hudler/Filppula/Jagr line would see him with a ton of goals.

As for Lidstrom retiring... if the Wings sign someone this season with a multi-year deal, that doesn't affect Nick. If you look at next summer and say "Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Stuart are UFAs" well then think for a second. We're going to sign at least one top-four defenseman. Stuart might end up being redundant, and the Wings need to eventually either open up space for Kindl and Smith or trade them. So it's possible that the Wings may end up with Stuart not returning for the 2012-13 season, if he is shoved out of the top-four and has his shut-down role taken by a cheaper guy acquired just for that purpose.

It's all good. We have another 40 year old to take over the reigns and bring the Wings that sweet silver reward...

Sergei Fedorov!!

I'd rather have Fedorov than Jagr. He's not what he used to be, but he used to be among the best in the world at almost everything hockey-related. He's still fast, has a good shot, excellent on faceoffs, great defensively, good with the puck. Jagr might bring more scoring, but Fedorov is a better match for what the Wings need. He's a versatile all-around forward who can be put in any role.

Seriously?

Lets sever one of your tendons and see how well you can perform your job...

Can I sever your tendon? You know, so that you can't type?

Personally it doesn't matter if we do get him or not. The wings problem last season was never scoring, but rather their defense and injury problems. They were second in league scoring only scoring one goal less than Vancouver. They need to focus less on getting another big scorer and more on fixing our blatant holes on defense. We won alot of games last year but it seemed that we were always winning games 5-4 instead of 3-1. If they get jagr, fine but Kenny needs to get two solid defensemen instead of throwing money at a guy like Richards. The wings offense will be fine this year if they can stay healthy especially since all the injuries we have had over the past two seasons (and there have been alot!) have made it very difficult for any lines to build any chemistry come playoff time.

That being said, Jagr had a quote saying he still has a house in pittsburgh because he was too lazy to sell it. If he is too lazy to sell a house, is he going to have the work ethic for this team?

Jagr being too lazy to sell his house doesn't make him a lazy player. Remember, Jagr lives in Russia right now. Selling a house in Pittsburgh from Russia, while being a professional hockey player, takes not only effort but time.

[Travis]

From Twitter:RobRossi_Trib

The Tribune seems to be pretty set that he'll be a Penguin.

[Majsheppard]

20% Wing 25% Penguin, 55% KHL payday. Just saying.

Jagr would be an almost guaranteed 60 point player for us, if not more than that. I have absolutely no problem with signing him to a one year deal. In fact, I'm really crossing my fingers that he'll be a Red Wing next season.

I agree with this, but there is the fact that we lost because we didn't play hard enough. We were already more skilled than San Jose, maybe even Boston. We lost from being beat in the battles for the puck, and we would have been beat by a few other teams as well.

I do not want him, but he wouldn't be the worst addition for the right price. I have a few forwards I would prefer before Jagr, and I really think we need to be wise with our money.

[SaCkaveli20]

He's going to sign in Pittsburgh, I can feel it. I hope he signs here, I think it would be an interesting season.

[Bannedforlife]

Sure, sure. Modano WOULD have had 40 points, WOULD have put up a fair share of goals, WOULD have saved the team. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Fact is, he stunk and was benched for a reason.

40-50 points for a guy who is 39 and hasn't played in the NHL in 3 years? Are you serious? We'd be LUCKY if he broke 20, with maybe 7 of those points being goals.

Jeez, can Holland not pick up someone in free agency over 36 for once?

This is coming from the guy who thought Bryzgalov would sign a 5 year contract @ $1.1 million per

[dragonballgtz]

From Twitter:RobRossi_Trib

I hope it's true.

[xtrememachine1]

The Tribune seems to be pretty set that he'll be a Penguin.

The Trib is almost like a joke paper. They "broke the story" that Russ Grimm was the Steelers new head coach too. Umm... whoops!

[KrazyGangsta]

Jagr 39 > Hudler (in his prime ... if he ever does get a prime)

[Red Wings Addict]

Jagr 39 > Hudler (in his prime ... if he ever does get a prime)

He gets his prime alright. Prime grade A, top choice meat.