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Is THIS team good enough to go the distance?


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#21 blueadams

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:46 AM

We're good on offense. Second most goals and Hudler and Franzen surely couldn't suck as bad as they did last season. An improving Helm will also add firepower. Adding Jagr would just make us even more deadly, although, he is not needed. Spend the farm on defense and a reliable back-up goalie in case Jhoww plays s***ty in the regular season again.


Babs said we need to add another top six forward, fwiw

#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:54 AM

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Cleary - Laich - Franzen
Eaves - Filpulla - Bertuzzi
McGrattan - Helm - Winchester


Lidstrom - Wisniewski
Kronwall - Stuart
Smith - Erskine
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#23 robb himself

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:57 AM

add up that cap hit, please




4+4+2=10
be about it!

#24 blueadams

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:08 PM

By my estimates, we're going to have about 12.9-15.9mil in cap space to work with this summer (depending on how high the cap goes)...

1) If we sign a cheap backup goalie (at about 1mil/season), and purchase the contracts of Emmerton (0.5mil/season), Smith (0.9mil/season), and Janik (0.5mil/season)...that'd leave us with 10-13mil.

2) If we sign Wisniewski (at about 4.5mil/season)...that'd leave us with 5.5-8.5mil.

3) If we sign Laich (at about 3.5mil/season)...that'd leave us with 2-5mil.



...at this point we'd have 13 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies under contract...and, more than likely, we'd still have enough to sign Jagr or Ericsson (but not both).

I vote Jagr.



Forwards(13): Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, *Laich, Filppula, Hudler, Cleary, Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Helm, Abdelkader, Mursak, Emmerton.

Defensemen(7): Lidstrom, *Wisniewski, Kronwall, Stuart, Kindl, Smith, Janik

Goalies(2): Howard, *?*

4+4+2=10


probably more like 12; and no, we can't fit that.

Edited by blueadams, 21 June 2011 - 12:09 PM.


#25 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:10 PM

No group is going to be perfect. How do you think that (potential) group would match up against boston's back six in game seven this year? (or maybe more importantly, San Jose's?)

Good point. But, if we assume that Wiz is an even swap for Raffi (which a lot of people would disagree with) then we basically have the same D core that lost to San Jose + 1 inexperienced/uproven player (insert Smith/Kindl/Janik). Now, if you believe Raffi is a superior Dman to Wiz, then we are actually weaker than we were last year + 1 inexperienced/uproven player. IMO-Wings look better at D with Raffi and Salei vs. Wiz and Smith/Kindl/Janik. Now, obviously if one of these young kids comes in and plays really, really well then that's a different equation. I'd be cautiously optimistic with seeing how your proposed D-Corps play until November. But if there is any questions, I'd be looking for a trade immediately. Big risk for Kenny when there may be no solid options to make us a better team at that point/before the trade deadline.
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#26 blueadams

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:14 PM

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Cleary - Laich - Franzen
Eaves - Filpulla - Bertuzzi
McGrattan - Helm - Winchester


Lidstrom - Wisniewski
Kronwall - Stuart
Smith - Erskine


what's happened to Hudler, Abdelkader, Mursak and Kindl?? I'm not sure Holland's ever dumped 4 promising young prospects in a single off-season.

Good point. But, if we assume that Wiz is an even swap for Raffi (which a lot of people would disagree with) then we basically have the same D core that lost to San Jose + 1 inexperienced/uproven player (insert Smith/Kindl/Janik). Now, if you believe Raffi is a superior Dman to Wiz, then we are actually weaker than we were last year + 1 inexperienced/uproven player. IMO-Wings look better at D with Raffi and Salei vs. Wiz and Smith/Kindl/Janik. Now, obviously if one of these young kids comes in and plays really, really well then that's a different equation. I'd be cautiously optimistic with seeing how your proposed D-Corps play until November. But if there is any questions, I'd be looking for a trade immediately. Big risk for Kenny when there may be no solid options to make us a better team at that point/before the trade deadline.


I think that a physical player like Wisniewski is better than Rafalski against San Jose, in spite of the offensive set-back. And I'm guessing/hoping that Smith will bring much more to the table than Salei as well.

But since we're talking about it, I thought that our inability to put the puck in the net was a bigger problem for us than defense.

#27 F.Michael

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:17 PM

I would say no with that lineup blueadams posted.

Too many injury prone players, which is what ultimately screwed us in game 7. Also, Holmstrom and Bertuzzi aren't going to get any better to be playing top 6 minutes. They're both too inconsistent and disappear for long stretches of time. Likewise, Jagr is an unproven commodity here, and Hudler is utterly useless.

I don't see a Stanley Cup with that particular lineup, unless everyone magically stays healthy throughout the playoffs and certain players somehow get younger.

In essence, you're replacing Rafalski with Wisniewski, and adding a 39 year old forward who hasn't played in the NHL for years.

Agreed.

Too many guys whom are inconsistent, or they're past their prime.

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#28 RusDRW

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:23 PM

Cleary - Laich - Franzen


unfortunately (for Washington) Laich is not center.

PS This line screams Richards! :)
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#29 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:25 PM

what's happened to Hudler, Abdelkader, Mursak and Kindl?? I'm not sure Holland's ever dumped 4 promising young prospects in a single off-season.



I think that a physical player like Wisniewski is better than Rafalski against San Jose, in spite of the offensive set-back. And I'm guessing/hoping that Smith will bring much more to the table than Salei as well.

But since we're talking about it, I thought that our inability to put the puck in the net was a bigger problem for us than defense.

Okay, good point. But you state our bigger problem was scoring goals ....but yet you claim we would have had a better chance against San Jose by replacing a very good/elite goal scoring dman to add a physical presence? Confusion has set in??
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#30 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:45 PM

what's happened to Hudler, Abdelkader, Mursak and Kindl?? I'm not sure Holland's ever dumped 4 promising young prospects in a single off-season.


Hudler and Abby are gone, while Mursak and Kindl will still play significant enough games to get more experience in the NHL.

In any case, I think my team would beat your team easily in a 7 game series. :P

unfortunately (for Washington) Laich is not center.

PS This line screams Richards! :)


Richards will cost too much money. More than Laich.
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#31 blueadams

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:48 PM

Okay, good point. But you state our bigger problem was scoring goals ....but yet you claim we would have had a better chance against San Jose by replacing a very good/elite goal scoring dman to add a physical presence? Confusion has set in??


well...1) raffy didn't contribute much offensively in that series, 2) wiz ain't exactly a slouch when it comes to point production either, and 3) i should've stressed point production from our forwards in particular being our bigger problem.

#32 hooon

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:59 PM

Babs said we need to add another top six forward, fwiw


And Holland has said our offense is fine.



We were 1 goal from advancing to the WCF. I don't think it was necessarily a personnel problem to blame for our exit this season. Every game we lost to the Sharks was a 1 goal game, we outscored them in the series overall. We were very, very close.

Assuming our team is improved upon this upcoming season, even if only slightly, why wouldn't we have a shot to win it all? The teams that were supposedly "better" than the Wings this season all had glaring vulnerabilities themselves at times. I think the Wings could have matched up against Vancouver or Boston.

If we can have even a modest year in terms of injuries, I believe our chances sky rocket. Having your leading goal-scorer out for almost the entire playoffs rarely helps chances.

So many possibilities, July 1st can't get here soon enough.
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#33 blueadams

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:59 PM

Hudler and Abby are gone, while Mursak and Kindl will still play significant enough games to get more experience in the NHL.

In any case, I think my team would beat your team easily in a 7 game series. :P


I don't know, let me try and scramble this around..

Filppula-Datsyuk-*Jagr
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
*Laich-Helm-Cleary
Hudler-Abdelkader-Holmstrom
Mursak
Emmerton

...incredible third line would be the group that makes the real difference in most games. Pav + Val = hot fire. + Jagr = wow. Second line is tried and true. fourth line is pretty much un-playable...but, so what. sub homer in on the PP. sub abby in on the PK. sub homer in for jagr, and abby in for bert regular strength from time to time. get huds a shift here and there. they'll get their minutes.

Kronwall-Wisniewski
Lidstrom-Smith
Stuart-Kindl
Janik

Howard
*?*

Edited by blueadams, 21 June 2011 - 01:13 PM.


#34 Crymson

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 01:24 PM

first off: we (at least in my case) just tease you about your line threads. its not like i want you to stop posting them, its just fun to tease cause ur so enthusiastic about them :).

simply put id say no to the lineup. d is not solid enough with a smith-ericsson pairing (would be real shaky in the playoffs) and neither likes the right side much. does jagr have 82 games in him plus the playoffs? probably not. This lineup has cup winner all over it though: Note: u could sub in Jagr for Zherdev in your case and pay a little less as well. This would be barring a trade with Fil, Kindl in a package with prospect/ picks for Burns...

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.500m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Brad Richards ($7.200m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.900m)
Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
Drew Miller ($0.700m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brent Burns ($3.550m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,996,211; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,003,789


You again with this lineup. No offense, but this isn't a video game. Holland won't be trading lots of assets (and you'd better believe that Filppula and Kindl wouldn't be nearly enough) for a defenseman who has one year left on his contract. And Zherdev is the opposite of the type of player Holland would sign; he's lazy, awful defensively, and has a bad attitude.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Cleary - Laich - Franzen
Eaves - Filpulla - Bertuzzi
McGrattan - Helm - Winchester


Lidstrom - Wisniewski
Kronwall - Stuart
Smith - Erskine


I think you're trolling.

#35 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 01:35 PM

I don't know, let me try and scramble this around..

Filppula-Datsyuk-*Jagr
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
*Laich-Helm-Cleary
Hudler-Abdelkader-Holmstrom
Mursak
Emmerton

...incredible third line would be the group that makes the real difference in most games. Pav + Val = hot fire. + Jagr = wow. Second line is tried and true. fourth line is pretty much un-playable...but, so what. sub homer in on the PP. sub abby in on the PK. sub homer in for jagr, and abby in for bert regular strength from time to time. get huds a shift here and there. they'll get their minutes.

Kronwall-Wisniewski
Lidstrom-Smith
Stuart-Kindl
Janik

Howard
*?*


I didn't see Laich in your original post. And your 4th line is a waste of time. Why not put someone like Winchester on that line? Guy has shown a scoring touch before, and is a good grinding forward that will wear defenses out as a series goes on.

I think you're trolling.


Of course you do. I didn't see you making any novel ideas in this thread.

My lineup actually made some cap sense and is a rather well rounded group that will beat most of these "proposed" lineups in a playoff series.

It's got scoring, size, skill, toughness and a good defense that will clear the crease for a change.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 21 June 2011 - 01:36 PM.

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#36 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 01:43 PM

Okay, Zherdev will not be here nor should he even be considered. He is lazy, has a poor attitude, and doesn't play defense whatsoever.

Abdelkader and Mursak are not going anywhere. These are two primary cogs of our bottom 6 that should be around for many years to come. Mursak may even sneak his way up into the top 6 eventually as he is basically Helm with very good hands.

Also, if we sign Jagr, what is up with people putting Holmstrom and Jagr on the wings with Datsyuk?!? That would be horrific and would wear Dats out quickly.

#37 Never_Retire_Steve

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 01:51 PM

The lineup posted has Datsyuk in it so yes, it has a chance


#38 dirtydangles

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:00 PM

Okay, Zherdev will not be here nor should he even be considered. He is lazy, has a poor attitude, and doesn't play defense whatsoever.

Abdelkader and Mursak are not going anywhere. These are two primary cogs of our bottom 6 that should be around for many years to come. Mursak may even sneak his way up into the top 6 eventually as he is basically Helm with very good hands.

Also, if we sign Jagr, what is up with people putting Holmstrom and Jagr on the wings with Datsyuk?!? That would be horrific and would wear Dats out quickly.


how is jagr any different? other than the fact that hes 39... which will only increase his laziness. i think a guy like zherdev would be a good project. potential is definitely there.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#39 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:09 PM

how is jagr any different? other than the fact that hes 39... which will only increase his laziness. i think a guy like zherdev would be a good project. potential is definitely there.


What's different is that Jagr has proven himself to be consistent and puts up numbers. You put him on a line with Datsyuk and any number of other players (not including Holmstrom) and that line's defense shores itself up. I truly believe there is a lot of misinformation going around regarding Jagr's attitude as i've seen a few past teammates talk about how good of a guy he is to play with and that he's a competitor.

We commit to Jagr for one season, or potentially commit to Zherdev for more than one. I certainly like the risk of a one season waiver over multi-year. If Zherdev cannot turn himself around on a team like Philly and the talent they have up front, what makes you think he can suddenly do it here? Zherdev flat out takes games off, Jagr doesn't.

#40 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:09 PM

how is jagr any different? other than the fact that hes 39... which will only increase his laziness. i think a guy like zherdev would be a good project. potential is definitely there.

Any player in this NHL cap world deemed with the term "project" usually concedes that you have no better options. May work for the Islanders...but not the Red Wings. Our "projects" happen in Grand Rapids.
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