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Is THIS team good enough to go the distance?


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#41 Konnan511

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:27 PM

Babs said we need to add another top six forward, fwiw


False, he say he'd like to add another top six forward, he never said we needed one. As stated a million times, every coach will say they'd like to add a top six forward and top 4 DMan. Holland has stated that their top 9 is pretty much set. No coach or GM will say that their team isn't going to add anyone, that breed complacency throughout the team.

Which will make a team work harder? "Everyone's job is safe and no additions need to be made" or "If we need to add a piece here or there, we're going to do it, we're always looking to improve."? Exactly.
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#42 blueadams

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:57 PM

I didn't see Laich in your original post. And your 4th line is a waste of time. Why not put someone like Winchester on that line? Guy has shown a scoring touch before, and is a good grinding forward that will wear defenses out as a series goes on.

Of course you do. I didn't see you making any novel ideas in this thread.


#1) go for it, if you can trade Hudler.

#2) +1 on the 'novel' ideas comment lol.

#43 Echolalia

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:27 PM

Holmstrom-Datsyuk-*Jagr
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Filppula-Cleary
Abdelkader-Helm-Mursak/Eaves/Miller
Emmerton

Lidstrom-*Wisniewski
Kronwall-Stuart
Smith-Ericsson
Kindl
Janik

Howard
?

First of all, don't give me any lines thread crap. If you don't like my posts, don't click them. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to do so. I like lines threads. Many others like lines threads as well. We're members of this forum. We have a right to discuss them. Unless you're a moderator, and unless new anti-line thread legislation has been passed...shut up and move on, or participate.

Second of all, acquisitions (Jagr and Wisniewski). Babcock said that we need to add a Rafalski replacement and a top six forward (and that the rest can be taken care of internally). These are the only rumors of mutual interest that I've even heard of with any real legs (and Wisniewski has really just been more of a process of elimination). So those are the only acquisitions I'm including. Don't give me a bunch of crap about it, unless you've got something else with legs.

Third of all, internal moves (resignings/promotions). I've heard that we might be aiming to keep 13 forwards and 8 defensemen. I've also heard - time and time again - that we're "counting" on Brendan Smith to make the roster. I've also heard - time and time again - that we're trying to resign both Eaves and Miller.

...If we're going to keep 8 defensemen...1) Lidstrom, 2) *FA/Wisniewski*, 3) Kronwall, 4) Stuart, 5) Kindl, 6) Smith, 7) Janik, 8) ?. It seems like we're really trying to keep Ericsson. We made him a multi-year offer during the season. Then we increased it recently. I'd be very surprised if we let him go. So I'm writing him in.

...If we're going to keep 13 forwards...1) Datsyuk, 2) Zetterberg, 3) Franzen, 4) Filppula, 5) Hudler, 6) Cleary, 7) Bertuzzi, 8) Holmstrom, 9) Helm, 10) Abdelkader, 11) Mursak, 12) Emmerton, 13) *FA/Jagr. If we're going to sign a top six forward, and we want to keep Eaves and/or Miller, someone (like Hudler and/or Emmerton) is going to need to be traded or released.



The roster I posted above is my best guess. That best guess is based on the best speculation available. If that's debatable...go ahead and debate it. But I don't think it is. And the real question we should be asking anyways is "IS THIS TEAM GOING TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO GO THE DISTANCE?"

My opinion, I don't know. Do Wisniewski>Rafalski, Jagr>Modano and Smith>Salei make a big enough difference?? I tend to lean towards no. I still think that scoring will be an issue. I think that a big trade or acquisition of some sort is still needed.


That's like asking the sun not to shine.

Anyway, I think I'm more excited about the coaching lineup than the changes to the roster. I expect the team to take the ice in October to be quite different from the team of the past few years, regardless of who makes the team and who doesn't.

#44 dirtydangles

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:56 PM

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Jaromir Jagr ($2.000m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Brad Richards ($7.200m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.850m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Steve Montador ($2.000m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,204,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $795,456

Edited by dirtydangles, 21 June 2011 - 11:37 PM.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#45 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:20 PM

This team isnt even built yet :lol: Start this thread after training camp when the teams built and I'll get back to ya

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#46 CanadaBoy

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:36 PM

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Brad Richards ($7.200m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.850m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Anton Babchuk ($2.000m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,204,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $795,456


Nikolai Zherdev or Jaromir Jagr for $2.000m Posted Image

I also see the Wings offering Richards $7.45 million (what Hossa got)
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#47 Konnan511

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:55 PM

This team isnt even built yet :lol: Start this thread after training camp when the teams built and I'll get back to ya


He's going to make a line thread after every rumor and after the draft, and before the draft. After every signing, before training camp, during training camp, after training camp. Pre season, pre-pre season, 1st game of the season, 2nd game of the season, after the first win, after the first loss, after the first SOL, OTL, SOW. After every injury, call-up, demotion. After every new coach signing as well. Then three or four "just for kicks and giggles".
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#48 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:11 PM

He's going to make a line thread after every rumor and after the draft, and before the draft. After every signing, before training camp, during training camp, after training camp. Pre season, pre-pre season, 1st game of the season, 2nd game of the season, after the first win, after the first loss, after the first SOL, OTL, SOW. After every injury, call-up, demotion. After every new coach signing as well. Then three or four "just for kicks and giggles".


Heh heh heh...

#49 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 12:57 AM

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Arnott-Cleary
Eaves-Filppula-Holmstrom
Abdelkader-Helm-Winchester
Mursak/Miller

Lidstrom-Stuart
Kronwall-Wisniewski
Peckham-Ericsson/Kindl
Smith

Howard
Boucher

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 22 June 2011 - 01:02 AM.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#50 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 12:59 AM

How about this?

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Tim Connolly ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m) / Steve Montador ($1.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.550m)

CAP SPACE: $107,956

Yes, it gets kind of tight. If you're concerned about that, replace Montador with Janik and save $1.2m

I think this roster is a huge improvement over last year; although there's no Raffi, Stuart is now the #5 defenseman, with Wisniewski, Pitkanen, and Montador coming in. Both the PP and PK have defensemen skilled in those areas; Lids/Kronner for both, Pitkanen/Wiz on PP, and Stu/Monty for PK. Connolly is the big improvement at forward, effectively taking Modano's spot. The Wings get a legit two-way center capable of playing on a top line to replace a guy who played his way out of the lineupe last year. Mursak replaces Draper, and brings a lot of the same skills but doesn't have the faceoff talents, and Emmerton takes Miller's spot, providing a speedy young skilled two-way forward at-the-ready for an injury replacement or to rest a player for a game or two.

Wisniewski brings a lot of Rafalski's similar skills, plus the RH shot, and is not far below that level, so we'll call that even. Again with Mursak. Emmerton is a scratch, so we don't need to think about that for now. Montador is an improvement over Salei. Pitkanen is so far above Ericsson that he needs a shovel to see him. Again for Connolly against Modano.

And finally, let's take a look at the lines I've posted:

Huds/Zetterberg/Cleary - Incredible performance while together.
Flip/Dats/Holmstrom - See A.
Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi - This would be the top line on most teams, and admittedly costs as much as some of them.
Mursak/Helm/Eaves - If Mursak fits in as well as Draper did, this will be one of the best checking lines in the league for a while... unless one of them moves to a scoring line, or the line as a whole becomes a scoring line.

Kronwall/Stuart - Kronner is making the transition from "very good" to "excellent", and Stuart can't have a more atrocious season than he did last year.
Lidstrom/Wisniewski - Lids probably won't be as good, but Wiz will provide the kind of element of physical play we haven't seen in a regular partner for Nick since Brad McCrimmon.
Pitkanen/Montador - Would be a solid second pairing on most teams; Pitkanen would be first pair on just about any team in the league and Montador top four on many.

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#51 Donaldjr2448

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:18 AM

How about this?

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Tim Connolly ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m) / Steve Montador ($1.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.550m)

CAP SPACE: $107,956

Yes, it gets kind of tight. If you're concerned about that, replace Montador with Janik and save $1.2m

I think this roster is a huge improvement over last year; although there's no Raffi, Stuart is now the #5 defenseman, with Wisniewski, Pitkanen, and Montador coming in. Both the PP and PK have defensemen skilled in those areas; Lids/Kronner for both, Pitkanen/Wiz on PP, and Stu/Monty for PK. Connolly is the big improvement at forward, effectively taking Modano's spot. The Wings get a legit two-way center capable of playing on a top line to replace a guy who played his way out of the lineupe last year. Mursak replaces Draper, and brings a lot of the same skills but doesn't have the faceoff talents, and Emmerton takes Miller's spot, providing a speedy young skilled two-way forward at-the-ready for an injury replacement or to rest a player for a game or two.

Wisniewski brings a lot of Rafalski's similar skills, plus the RH shot, and is not far below that level, so we'll call that even. Again with Mursak. Emmerton is a scratch, so we don't need to think about that for now. Montador is an improvement over Salei. Pitkanen is so far above Ericsson that he needs a shovel to see him. Again for Connolly against Modano.

And finally, let's take a look at the lines I've posted:

Huds/Zetterberg/Cleary - Incredible performance while together.
Flip/Dats/Holmstrom - See A.
Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi - This would be the top line on most teams, and admittedly costs as much as some of them.
Mursak/Helm/Eaves - If Mursak fits in as well as Draper did, this will be one of the best checking lines in the league for a while... unless one of them moves to a scoring line, or the line as a whole becomes a scoring line.

Kronwall/Stuart - Kronner is making the transition from "very good" to "excellent", and Stuart can't have a more atrocious season than he did last year.
Lidstrom/Wisniewski - Lids probably won't be as good, but Wiz will provide the kind of element of physical play we haven't seen in a regular partner for Nick since Brad McCrimmon.
Pitkanen/Montador - Would be a solid second pairing on most teams; Pitkanen would be first pair on just about any team in the league and Montador top four on many.

I actually like this!! Tim Connolly would be a great pick up and those Defensive pairings are SOLID!! I wouldn't mind seeing Huds gone, but you make a great point baout what he did with those line mates!

#52 Hank Dats 'N Homer

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:17 AM

How about this?

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Tim Connolly ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m) / Steve Montador ($1.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.550m)

CAP SPACE: $107,956

Yes, it gets kind of tight. If you're concerned about that, replace Montador with Janik and save $1.2m

I think this roster is a huge improvement over last year; although there's no Raffi, Stuart is now the #5 defenseman, with Wisniewski, Pitkanen, and Montador coming in. Both the PP and PK have defensemen skilled in those areas; Lids/Kronner for both, Pitkanen/Wiz on PP, and Stu/Monty for PK. Connolly is the big improvement at forward, effectively taking Modano's spot. The Wings get a legit two-way center capable of playing on a top line to replace a guy who played his way out of the lineupe last year. Mursak replaces Draper, and brings a lot of the same skills but doesn't have the faceoff talents, and Emmerton takes Miller's spot, providing a speedy young skilled two-way forward at-the-ready for an injury replacement or to rest a player for a game or two.

Wisniewski brings a lot of Rafalski's similar skills, plus the RH shot, and is not far below that level, so we'll call that even. Again with Mursak. Emmerton is a scratch, so we don't need to think about that for now. Montador is an improvement over Salei. Pitkanen is so far above Ericsson that he needs a shovel to see him. Again for Connolly against Modano.

And finally, let's take a look at the lines I've posted:

Huds/Zetterberg/Cleary - Incredible performance while together.
Flip/Dats/Holmstrom - See A.
Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi - This would be the top line on most teams, and admittedly costs as much as some of them.
Mursak/Helm/Eaves - If Mursak fits in as well as Draper did, this will be one of the best checking lines in the league for a while... unless one of them moves to a scoring line, or the line as a whole becomes a scoring line.

Kronwall/Stuart - Kronner is making the transition from "very good" to "excellent", and Stuart can't have a more atrocious season than he did last year.
Lidstrom/Wisniewski - Lids probably won't be as good, but Wiz will provide the kind of element of physical play we haven't seen in a regular partner for Nick since Brad McCrimmon.
Pitkanen/Montador - Would be a solid second pairing on most teams; Pitkanen would be first pair on just about any team in the league and Montador top four on many.

Forgive me if im wrong, but i didnt see any glimpses over the years of Hudler shoeing he is capable of handeling/deserving first line minutes...nor have i seen babcock act shy about benching him/healthy scratch last season. How does that scream 1st liner anywhere, let alone in Detroit? Send him and his lazy play packing

#53 GMRwings1983

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 01:13 PM

This team isnt even built yet :lol: Start this thread after training camp when the teams built and I'll get back to ya


Line combos are fun to talk about, but are a waste of time, because lines change so much.

From now on, I think it's wiser to just compile a list of forwards and defensemen, instead of talking about what lines they'll be on. It won't stay the same anyway.
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#54 ComradeWasabi

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 01:23 PM

Forgive me if im wrong, but i didnt see any glimpses over the years of Hudler shoeing he is capable of handeling/deserving first line minutes...nor have i seen babcock act shy about benching him/healthy scratch last season. How does that scream 1st liner anywhere, let alone in Detroit? Send him and his lazy play packing


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QUOTE (thedisappearer @ December 13, 2008 - 10:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, we're dogpiling on the goalie sammy Hudler the defense the refs league bias against us coaching now? Ok.

Babcock is lazy and he sucks!

#55 hockey23

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 01:33 PM

False, he say he'd like to add another top six forward, he never said we needed one. As stated a million times, every coach will say they'd like to add a top six forward and top 4 DMan. Holland has stated that their top 9 is pretty much set. No coach or GM will say that their team isn't going to add anyone, that breed complacency throughout the team.

Which will make a team work harder? "Everyone's job is safe and no additions need to be made" or "If we need to add a piece here or there, we're going to do it, we're always looking to improve."? Exactly.

Here's Babcock's reply to what the Wings need...

we need a top-six forward to give our guys opportunity


I don't think Babcock would say they need a top-6 forward if he didn't believe it or he didn't think it was possible. They have the cap space and Babcock said they have the need, so I'm willing to bet that they sign a forward.

#56 blueadams

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:30 PM

Here's Babcock's reply to what the Wings need...


I don't think Babcock would say they need a top-6 forward if he didn't believe it or he didn't think it was possible. They have the cap space and Babcock said they have the need, so I'm willing to bet that they sign a forward.


yup...sign wiz, sign laich, sign jagr or ericsson...ready to go

#57 dirtydangles

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:32 PM

yup...sign wiz, sign laich, sign jagr or ericsson...ready to go


that wouldnt get you close to the cap. we have room for wiz, richards, another top 4 dman if we trade hudler.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#58 blueadams

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:20 PM

that wouldnt get you close to the cap. we have room for wiz, richards, another top 4 dman if we trade hudler.


i've run the numbers...and that's not even close to being accurate





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