86 replies to this topic

[eva unit zero]

I would love so badly for him to win no. 8 next year, but I expect there will be a lot of voters who will be hesitant to grant him the Norris that will tie him for 1st all time with Orr. In an event, I do believe he is the greatest defensman of all time, ahead of even Orr.

From the 1997-98 season to today, the Norris has been awarded 13 times. I can only think of one time I can say for certain Lidstrom did not deserve it. That would be last season, when I feel he was still top-three. Only one, perhaps two other times do I feel that Lidstrom could be argued as not the best, being the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 seasons when Al MacInnis and Chris Pronger won, and Pronger also took home the Hart.

So ultimately, IMHO, Lidstrom should have somewhere between 10-12 Norris wins. He has been outright cheated out of three victories (2009 Chara, 2004 Niedermayer, and 1998 Blake) and had that not occurred, he would likely be generally considered the greatest and most dominant defenseman of all-time. Even before 98, when he was the outright best, he was challenging for Norrises for six years. Lidstrom came into the league as one of the top 15-20 defensemen, as did Konstantinov. That event immediately changed the Wings from a mediocre team to a top team, in the same fashion as Yzerman's entrance allowed the Wings to emerge from the dungeon or Fedorov's entrance gave the Wings a second star player. The early 90s; with the emergence of Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, and Osgood; as well as the acquisitions of Mike Vernon, Kris Draper, Brendan Shanahan, Igor Larionov, Slava Fetisov, and Larry Murphy; these are the things that are what defined the Wings' run in the 90s and allowed them to continue being successful. Through having a strong front office with Bowman, Holland, and Devellano, as well as strong scouting, they were able to select skilled players with low picks such as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and others, as well as to make the "smart" move instead of the "big" move - and knowing when to make those moves. Players like Hasek, Schneider, Hull, Robitaille, Chelios, Whitney, Rafalski, Hossa, Conklin, Cleary, Eaves and more were strong acquisitions made via free agency or trade that helped and in some cases are still helping the Wings beyond their role.

The effect of Lidstrom leaving is unknown. He's a great defenseman, so that will hurt, but we'll get a skilled guy to help there. We have a leader in the locker room who can take on the mantle when Nick bows out. Is Z ready for full time? I think so. But I want to see Nick keep on as long as he's willing to play.

[Hockeytown0001]

Still goes to show who is the best.

[hillbillywingsfan]

From the 1997-98 season to today, the Norris has been awarded 13 times. I can only think of one time I can say for certain Lidstrom did not deserve it. That would be last season, when I feel he was still top-three. Only one, perhaps two other times do I feel that Lidstrom could be argued as not the best, being the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 seasons when Al MacInnis and Chris Pronger won, and Pronger also took home the Hart.

So ultimately, IMHO, Lidstrom should have somewhere between 10-12 Norris wins. He has been outright cheated out of three victories (2009 Chara, 2004 Niedermayer, and 1998 Blake) and had that not occurred, he would likely be generally considered the greatest and most dominant defenseman of all-time. Even before 98, when he was the outright best, he was challenging for Norrises for six years. Lidstrom came into the league as one of the top 15-20 defensemen, as did Konstantinov. That event immediately changed the Wings from a mediocre team to a top team, in the same fashion as Yzerman's entrance allowed the Wings to emerge from the dungeon or Fedorov's entrance gave the Wings a second star player. The early 90s; with the emergence of Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, and Osgood; as well as the acquisitions of Mike Vernon, Kris Draper, Brendan Shanahan, Igor Larionov, Slava Fetisov, and Larry Murphy; these are the things that are what defined the Wings' run in the 90s and allowed them to continue being successful. Through having a strong front office with Bowman, Holland, and Devellano, as well as strong scouting, they were able to select skilled players with low picks such as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and others, as well as to make the "smart" move instead of the "big" move - and knowing when to make those moves. Players like Hasek, Schneider, Hull, Robitaille, Chelios, Whitney, Rafalski, Hossa, Conklin, Cleary, Eaves and more were strong acquisitions made via free agency or trade that helped and in some cases are still helping the Wings beyond their role.

The effect of Lidstrom leaving is unknown. He's a great defenseman, so that will hurt, but we'll get a skilled guy to help there. We have a leader in the locker room who can take on the mantle when Nick bows out. Is Z ready for full time? I think so. But I want to see Nick keep on as long as he's willing to play.

you sure about that one?

Scott= 81 GP 14 g 40 a 54 p
Lids= 81 gp 10 g 28 a 38 p

Unless im totally not seeing something or forget something.....

[Vladifan]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=pke4k17zVBE

Thank you SO much for this! It is classic stuff and definitely a Keeper!

[GMRwings1983]

Plus/Minus is a misleading stat between these 3 players. Lidstrom played in front of Jimmy Howard and his s***ty numbers, while Chara and Weber played in front of Thomas and Rinne, who put up amazing numbers (record numbers for Thomas).

Will someone explain to the morons on HFboards this one fact.

You could also explain that Lidstrom had way more points than Chara, enough for that to be a very significant fact that skewed the voting. Weber scored a lot as well, but the guy shoots about 800 times a game, so his goal total isn't as impressive as Nick's.

[MGreenberg]

Congrats to Nick but the biggest joke was that Mike Gillis Won best GM. So just because they make it the Cup Finals, he gets best general manager? Guess Steve Yzerman bringing Tampa to being one win away from the Cup Finals after the Lightning miss the playoffs for four straight years means nothing.

[Mitchmac33]

Congrats to Nick but the biggest joke was that Mike Gillis Won best GM. So just because they make it the Cup Finals, he gets best general manager? Guess Steve Yzerman bringing Tampa to being one win away from the Cup Finals after the Lightning miss the playoffs for four straight years means nothing.

I could be wrong, but i believe all the voting is done before the playoffs

[Opie]

I understand the beef from Nas and Bos fans. Just as I would if one of their guys won.
But I think that is reflected in the voting, and that all three had something they were the best at and something they were the worst at (of the three).
Very close race for the Norris this year, but I think we all knew that when the nominees were announced.
But I do think that Lids playing in front of the lesser netminder of the three weighed heavily in his favor.

[edicius]

I still think Barry Trotz should have gotten the Jack Adams.

[Travis]

I still think Barry Trotz should have gotten the Jack Adams.

Agreed. I thought that was the only award of the night worthy of second-guessing.

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

All the people saying Nick shouldn't have won because of +/- are dummies. If Nick had the same stats, but was a +40, and lost, all the people saying he shouldn't have won would be crying foul saying what a travesty it was he didn't win.

I could care less what fans of other teams think, they don't watch Nick every game like we do and realize this Norris couldn't have been more deserving this year

[commadore183]

Another Lidstrom for Norris?



Congrats to El Capitan for winning his 7th Norris award!

[Cloune]

Norris trophy is about the best defenseman overall (in all the game aspects) not just about +/- or points. Just look at the last fifteen years history of the trophy - almost never wins a defenseman with most points. There are simply more aspects to be considered, like quality of goalies, specific style of team gameplay, who is with whom in line, against who exactly they play and also when.
Both Boston and Anaheim had a huge luck this year that they avoided injuries and therefore played with a consistent team most of the season, unlike Detroit.

[Bannedforlife]

Agreed. I thought that was the only award of the night worthy of second-guessing.

Ummm, ever hear of the Hart Trophy?

[Travis]

Ummm, ever hear of the Hart Trophy?

???

[Bannedforlife]

???

You said the Jack Adams was the only trophy worthy of second guessing, but Corey Perry as league MVP is probably least deserving winner of the last 20 years.

[SuperNovaXll]

Congrats to Nick for lucky number 7. Hope we will get to see 8 next year!

[Travis]

You said the Jack Adams was the only trophy worthy of second guessing, but Corey Perry as league MVP is probably least deserving winner of the last 20 years.

I was just being an ass. I wouldn't call him undeserving. He might be a ******, but he was arguably the most valuable player to his team in the whole league.

[RockyMountainWingGal]

From the 1997-98 season to today, the Norris has been awarded 13 times. I can only think of one time I can say for certain Lidstrom did not deserve it. That would be last season, when I feel he was still top-three. Only one, perhaps two other times do I feel that Lidstrom could be argued as not the best, being the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 seasons when Al MacInnis and Chris Pronger won, and Pronger also took home the Hart.

So ultimately, IMHO, Lidstrom should have somewhere between 10-12 Norris wins. He has been outright cheated out of three victories (2009 Chara, 2004 Niedermayer, and 1998 Blake) and had that not occurred, he would likely be generally considered the greatest and most dominant defenseman of all-time. Even before 98, when he was the outright best, he was challenging for Norrises for six years. Lidstrom came into the league as one of the top 15-20 defensemen, as did Konstantinov. That event immediately changed the Wings from a mediocre team to a top team, in the same fashion as Yzerman's entrance allowed the Wings to emerge from the dungeon or Fedorov's entrance gave the Wings a second star player. The early 90s; with the emergence of Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, and Osgood; as well as the acquisitions of Mike Vernon, Kris Draper, Brendan Shanahan, Igor Larionov, Slava Fetisov, and Larry Murphy; these are the things that are what defined the Wings' run in the 90s and allowed them to continue being successful. Through having a strong front office with Bowman, Holland, and Devellano, as well as strong scouting, they were able to select skilled players with low picks such as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and others, as well as to make the "smart" move instead of the "big" move - and knowing when to make those moves. Players like Hasek, Schneider, Hull, Robitaille, Chelios, Whitney, Rafalski, Hossa, Conklin, Cleary, Eaves and more were strong acquisitions made via free agency or trade that helped and in some cases are still helping the Wings beyond their role.

The effect of Lidstrom leaving is unknown. He's a great defenseman, so that will hurt, but we'll get a skilled guy to help there. We have a leader in the locker room who can take on the mantle when Nick bows out. Is Z ready for full time? I think so. But I want to see Nick keep on as long as he's willing to play.

Great post Eva. At least we agree on one player.

[Konnan511]

From the 1997-98 season to today, the Norris has been awarded 13 times. I can only think of one time I can say for certain Lidstrom did not deserve it. That would be last season, when I feel he was still top-three. Only one, perhaps two other times do I feel that Lidstrom could be argued as not the best, being the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 seasons when Al MacInnis and Chris Pronger won, and Pronger also took home the Hart.

So ultimately, IMHO, Lidstrom should have somewhere between 10-12 Norris wins. He has been outright cheated out of three victories (2009 Chara, 2004 Niedermayer, and 1998 Blake) and had that not occurred, he would likely be generally considered the greatest and most dominant defenseman of all-time. Even before 98, when he was the outright best, he was challenging for Norrises for six years. Lidstrom came into the league as one of the top 15-20 defensemen, as did Konstantinov. That event immediately changed the Wings from a mediocre team to a top team, in the same fashion as Yzerman's entrance allowed the Wings to emerge from the dungeon or Fedorov's entrance gave the Wings a second star player. The early 90s; with the emergence of Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, and Osgood; as well as the acquisitions of Mike Vernon, Kris Draper, Brendan Shanahan, Igor Larionov, Slava Fetisov, and Larry Murphy; these are the things that are what defined the Wings' run in the 90s and allowed them to continue being successful. Through having a strong front office with Bowman, Holland, and Devellano, as well as strong scouting, they were able to select skilled players with low picks such as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and others, as well as to make the "smart" move instead of the "big" move - and knowing when to make those moves. Players like Hasek, Schneider, Hull, Robitaille, Chelios, Whitney, Rafalski, Hossa, Conklin, Cleary, Eaves and more were strong acquisitions made via free agency or trade that helped and in some cases are still helping the Wings beyond their role.

The effect of Lidstrom leaving is unknown. He's a great defenseman, so that will hurt, but we'll get a skilled guy to help there. We have a leader in the locker room who can take on the mantle when Nick bows out. Is Z ready for full time? I think so. But I want to see Nick keep on as long as he's willing to play.

Great post Eva. At least we agree on one player.

I'd re-read the hidden message he has in there...