276 replies to this topic

[Zetts]

This is full of lies.

Anyone who has ever met Rafalski knew he was religious. He wore a cross around his neck everywhere he went. Not to mention, in any interview they had with him in regards to breasts cancer awareness or the natural disasters he always spoke of God coming to their rescue.

And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

Before becoming so hostile to someone who does in fact like the player, perhaps you should a) read my post just above yours and b) read the articles about him. He referenced his religion much, MUCH more than just in a circumstance about his tie.

And regardless of any of our personal feelings, there are some reports that scouts are looking at it. You can argue whether that is fair or not, but I feel that nothing that I've personally said has been either discriminatory or judgmental of him. If you feel otherwise, please let me know which comment about him did anything other than present BOTH sides of the issue for consideration.

Edit: Also, I didn't mean to say that nobody knew Rafalski was religious, just that he didn't make it the center of conversations. Wearing a cross is irrelevant. I haven't heard anyone judge Grimaldi for being Christian. It's for his extensive expression of it, that SOME people are commenting.

Edited by Zetts, 26 June 2011 - 01:37 PM.

[swiss_fan]

And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

Your comparaison is not good. A good comparaison would be an homosexual athlete that tweets everytime about his sexual preferences.. Same with an heterosexual actually. I would personally not enjoy that one of the team member tweets that he loves to f##k girls.... Look what happened to Carter in Philly, part of it because he was known to go out and have fun with pornstars...

It should be a clear distinction between private and public life, which i know does not exists anymore in the US. I think it's sad.

[Konnan511]

Your comparaison is not good. A good comparaison would be an homosexual athlete that tweets everytime about his sexual preferences.. Same with an heterosexual actually. I would personally not enjoy that one of the team member tweets that he loves to f##k girls.... Look what happened to Carter in Philly, part of it because he was known to go out and have fun with pornstars...

It should be a clear distinction between private and public life, which i know does not exists anymore in the US. I think it's sad.

My comparison is sound and valid. You took it out of context and added labels to it.

[CaliWingsNut]

My comparison is sound and valid. You took it out of context and added labels to it.

I disagree. I normally have no issue with others having a different religion or sexual preference, however when one uses a public conference to put their religion on a pedestal it's a different thing. He made it sound as though his decision to retire was based on the impact playing has on his relationship with god, not the fact that his knees are a mess, his age, or any other realistic reason. I'm unsure the last time I heard a sports figure quitting because of his religion (granted I don't watch much soccer).

[swiss_fan]

My comparison is sound and valid. You took it out of context and added labels to it.

How is this comparaison with a kid who talks as we all know a lot about his religion and the situation of an homosexual valid? As i said a correct comparaison would be an heterosexual or homosexual who talks (tweets for example) about his preferences..

The big thing is obviously not that this kid is religious (probably as the big part of the athletes to a certain extent) but that he talks too much about it: no more private sphere, everything is a big show..

[Konnan511]

How is this comparaison with a kid who talks as we all know a lot about his religion and the situation of an homosexual valid? As i said a correct comparaison would be an heterosexual or homosexual who talks (tweets for example) about his preferences..

The big thing is obviously not that this kid is religious (probably as the big part of the athletes to a certain extent) but that he talks too much about it: no more private sphere, everything is a big show..

A correct comparision in your mind.

I compared the life preferences of being a homosexual and being religious. I didn't make any statments about if each said person vocalized their preferences. I just said, that it shouldn't matter if a person is *** or religious as long as they are good people and in this case, good athletes. Then the labels of "well, so and so did this, so it'd be correct if *** man did this". No, that's not what I said. You can't turn something someone says and warp it to what you want to say, that's not how it works. I don't care if a person is Kandorian or if a person has three legs, as long as they are good people and in this case a good athlete, it shouldn't matter. Do those extremes help you understand better?

[number9]

A correct comparision in your mind.

I compared the life preferences of being a homosexual and being religious. I didn't make any statments about if each said person vocalized their preferences. I just said, that it shouldn't matter if a person is *** or religious as long as they are good people and in this case, good athletes. Then the labels of "well, so and so did this, so it'd be correct if *** man did this". No, that's not what I said. You can't turn something someone says and warp it to what you want to say, that's not how it works. I don't care if a person is Kandorian or if a person has three legs, as long as they are good people and in this case a good athlete, it shouldn't matter. Do those extremes help you understand better?

1. that is a good comparison
2. your original statement is perfectly valid. it does not matter if someone is religious or ***, and im sure everyone here agrees with you on that. ppl are simply trying to point out how boisterous he is about it. so if you wanna discuss that with everyone go ahead, no one really cares what religion it is or if hes *** or whatever.

[55fan]

Back to Zetts- thanks for clarifying your opinion and thanks for expanding. It added a lot positively to the discussion on both sides of the issue, and I see what you're saying now.

How many kids that were drafted were not interviewed? A lot. I wonder what some of them would have to say. It would be interesting if every kid who was at the draft had interviews. I'm not talking about religion here. I'm just saying, ask the kid "what makes you who you are?" A lot of these kids have trouble expressing themselves in front of the camera at this point in their lives.

Regardless, they go through interviews of a less formal nature throughout their playing careers. They will get used to it over time. Some people are better under at verbalizing their thoughts. Some are better speaking privately than publicly.

I wonder how much of scouting and drafting goes to the personality of the player rather than just looking at the on-ice abilities. That in itself could be a whole 'nother and interesting thread.

[nuts2u]

This is full of lies.

Anyone who has ever met Rafalski knew he was religious. He wore a cross around his neck everywhere he went. Not to mention, in any interview they had with him in regards to breasts cancer awareness or the natural disasters he always spoke of God coming to their rescue.

And the kid didn't use the draft to profess his love for jesus, he was asked a question about his tie. Tim Tebow had a different bible verse on his eye black every game and look how he turned out. People need to stop being so discriminatory. It seems it's ok with people that a person is ***, but if a person is religious, it's a bad thing. If they are good people and good athletes, who gives a flying f***?

Being *** is OK and being Religious is OK, just don't preach to me and I won't say f*** to you.....

[Konnan511]

Being *** is OK and being Religious is OK, just don't preach to me and I won't say f*** to you.....

Agreed. Where did this kid try to convert you? If saying, "I love my faith, but I won't judge you for actions that I perceive as wrong, we are brothers on and off the ice", is preaching, then you'd hate Rafalski and Datsyuk and Doan and Sakic and Toews and Cam Ward and all the Staals and etc. I dare you to tell Stu Grimson to f*** off for being religious, I'm sure he's been interviewed a few times about his faith during his playing days and said things along the same lines as this kid.

[nuts2u]

A correct comparision in your mind.

I compared the life preferences of being a homosexual and being religious. I didn't make any statments about if each said person vocalized their preferences. I just said, that it shouldn't matter if a person is *** or religious as long as they are good people and in this case, good athletes. Then the labels of "well, so and so did this, so it'd be correct if *** man did this". No, that's not what I said. You can't turn something someone says and warp it to what you want to say, that's not how it works. I don't care if a person is Kandorian or if a person has three legs, as long as they are good people and in this case a good athlete, it shouldn't matter. Do those extremes help you understand better?

Being religious is a choice and the religion you choose is a preference however, contrary to your belief, Homosexuality is neither a choice or a preference. Every *** person I know, given a choice would choose to be straight and love someone of the opposite sex so they wouldn't have to put up with taunts and beatings from uneducated redneck assholes.

[Doc Holliday]

I disagree. I normally have no issue with others having a different religion or sexual preference, however when one uses a public conference to put their religion on a pedestal it's a different thing. He made it sound as though his decision to retire was based on the impact playing has on his relationship with god, not the fact that his knees are a mess, his age, or any other realistic reason. I'm unsure the last time I heard a sports figure quitting because of his religion (granted I don't watch much soccer).

Yeah, he never said that.

[CaliWingsNut]

Yeah, he never said that.

He starts off by explaining that after a long discussion with his wife about his main priorities (listed as god, family, others in that order) he can no longer play.

[Konnan511]

Being religious is a choice and the religion you choose is a preference however, contrary to your belief, Homosexuality is neither a choice or a preference. Every *** person I know, given a choice would choose to be straight and love someone of the opposite sex so they wouldn't have to put up with taunts and beatings from uneducated redneck assholes.

Contrary to your belief, roughly 90% of the gays I know are bisexual and choose to be with either female or male at a time. You do know most gays are bisexual right? I know they don't have the choice of not liking the same sex, but they are able to make the choice of who they date most of the time. Plus, look up the term "ex-***", you'll be surprised to know that many gays do indeed convert themselves away from homosexuality. And just for the record, because I know I'm coming off as a homo hater, I'm actually pro-*** marriage and my two best friend are *** and I actually know what the hell I am talking about lol.

You completely missed the point anyways and I'd argue your faith is not a choice. Many Christians and Buddhists claim that God came to them one day and that was the day they began professing their love and devotion to them, so contrary to your beliefs, religion is not a choice. See how easy it is?

But back on topic. I'm excited with 6 of our 9 picks and I'm sincerely glad Holland is our GM and not some of you idiots that cursed him for trading the first round draft pick at the time he traded it.

He starts off by explaining that after a long discussion with his wife about his main priorities (listed as god, family, others in that order) he can no longer play.

Well yah, all Christians will say God is their number one priority. If his wife was drowning, he wouldn't ask for a sign from God to see if he should save her, he'd just do it.

My fraternity has the motto it's (God, Family, School, Sigma Chi) in that order but you better beielve your ass I work hardest on school work. Just because something is your number one priority, it doesn't mean it's the reason you do certain things.

E.g. I bet his faith is the reason he wasn't a cheap player or didn't get in trouble off the ice, but I bet his faith had nothing to do with where he played hockey or the salary he asked for when he played. Just like I'm willing to bet the decision he retired was due to his health and not his faith seeing how he only had ONE knee.

Edited by Konnan511, 26 June 2011 - 09:12 PM.

[Zetts]

Back to Zetts- thanks for clarifying your opinion and thanks for expanding. It added a lot positively to the discussion on both sides of the issue, and I see what you're saying now.

Thanks - I probably should have expanded more in my initial post, but at least I was able to convey my thinking. I think for the most part, picks in the first 2 rounds are interviewed, but from there on out I imagine that many players aren't. I certainly do empathize - these kids are under a lot of pressure and I'm sure that at their age few can fully articulate what they want to say. Grimaldi got much more attention then I think he was expecting due to his size. I do agree - I'm curious as to how important personality is when evaluating a prospect. Obviously we've seen that something like poor work ethic is not looked at favourably...but that's a bit different as it has a direct impact on the on-ice success.

Contrary to your belief, roughly 90% of the gays I know are bisexual and choose to be with either female or male at a time. You do know most gays are bisexual right? I know they don't have the choice of not liking the same sex, but they are able to make the choice of who they date most of the time. Plus, look up the term "ex-***", you'll be surprised to know that many gays do indeed convert themselves away from homosexuality. And just for the record, because I know I'm coming off as a homo hater, I'm actually pro-*** marriage and my two best friend are *** and I actually know what the hell I am talking about lol.

Painfully false claims. I won't say any more or this thread will be derailed. PM me, or here has been a thread where pretty much any time a homosexuality question came up it could be discussed.

Edited by Zetts, 26 June 2011 - 11:15 PM.

[Majsheppard]

A correct comparision in your mind.

The only comparison II can think of right now, is your avatar and epilepsy.

Seriously, that thing gives me a headache how fast it goes.

Edit: No offense intended. Just constructive criticism.

Edited by Majsheppard, 26 June 2011 - 11:30 PM.

[Red Wings Addict]

Read this quote about Tyler Biggs and it made me a little sad to think about a few of our own players in regards to this aspect of the game:

"That's Tyler. When you do piss him off, look out. He understands being that big, you have to play up to that size. You can't play down. I think he does it very well."