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Babcock "pissed off" about Burns-to-SJ


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#61 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:02 PM

On second thought: OMG IT'S JULY 1ST AND WE HAVEN'T SIGNED A STAR! :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting:
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#62 joshy207

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:21 PM

why did he have to trade down to get them? is my point.... they knew who they wanted..take them when you get the pick... that's my point!

so many what ifs....



Holland turned one pick (#24) into two picks (#35 and #48). Without making this move, the Wings only get one of those players. THAT is the point!!

#63 Vladifan

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:34 PM

I just hope he doesnt pass on wiz.....


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Oh yeah. Some of us are sick and twisted. :lookaround:

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#64 Heaten

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:48 PM

Funny how forum members on LGW's think Red Wings junk is worth gold. NOBODY WANTS RED WINGS GARBAGE!!!

It was virtually IMPOSSIBLE for Holland to trade for Burns without giving up the future; (Tatar, Sheahan, Smith, Pulkinnen, Nyquist + 2011 first)

Why would Wild want Filpulla who isn't a 25-30 goal scorer when they got a much better trade from Sharks? Sharks gave up ALOT to get Burns. Wings just don't have the assets to give up like Sharks have....

#65 Barrie

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:05 PM

Ah who cares, SJ is just going to blow again next year anyway.

There's 3 guarantees in life: Death, Taxes, and SJ not making it to the Stanley Cup Finals.
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#66 GMRwings1983

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:24 PM

Ah who cares, SJ is just going to blow again next year anyway.

There's 3 guarantees in life: Death, Taxes, and SJ not making it to the Stanley Cup Finals.


Because we don't want there to be another guarantee.

San Jose beating us in the playoffs again.
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#67 Uncle Danny

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:31 PM

Because we don't want there to be another guarantee.

San Jose beating us in the playoffs again.


Well said. I'd also add that similar things were said about a certain team whose colors are red and white in the early/mid 90's. In fact, I recall a kid wearing #19 was almost traded away as a result. But you all already know this story.
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#68 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:41 PM

Are we really get THIS upset over Brentf****** Burns?

This is LetsGoWings we're talking about it here...

#69 Barrie

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:52 PM

Well said. I'd also add that similar things were said about a certain team whose colors are red and white in the early/mid 90's. In fact, I recall a kid wearing #19 was almost traded away as a result. But you all already know this story.

That's SJ's excuse for keeping this core together, the early 90's Wings. If they want to go by that, it would have already been 1997 and 1998 by now. It's time for the Sharks to get rid of Thornton and Marleau.
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#70 BostonBruinsDan1924

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:58 PM

With the Sharks getting Brent Burns they just got a shutdown D-man and they are MUCH better. I guess we'll see who makes the biggest splash after 1 July, but for now, it looks like SJ has the biggest splash followed by Kings then the Blue Jackets. As for the Flyers...they just got themselves another Bobby Luo...a choker.

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#71 GMRwings1983

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:13 PM

Setoguchi was a more consistent playoff performer for them than Marleau, Thornton or Murd....I mean Heatley.

Those other players will put together a good series here and there, but can never play well for the entire playoff run. Setoguchi seemed to bring it all the time.

I'm starting to agree with people who don't think this was such a perfect move by San Jose. They did give up a lot here to get Burns, who's a guy that's been injury plagued.
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#72 Uncle Danny

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:22 PM

Setoguchi was a more consistent playoff performer for them than Marleau, Thornton or Murd....I mean Heatley.

Those other players will put together a good series here and there, but can never play well for the entire playoff run. Setoguchi seemed to bring it all the time.

I'm starting to agree with people who don't think this was such a perfect move by San Jose. They did give up a lot here to get Burns, who's a guy that's been injury plagued.


To that end, I agree with you. I don't see this as a net win for San Jose. Gooch is one hell of a player, and to give up the additional assets on top of it hurts a ton.

I'm not so terribly concerned with the injury portion, though. Kronwall, just as one example, had a crazy string of injuries a few years back, and has rebounded nicely. Sometimes dumb luck is just dumb luck... and it has to end at some point.

This is a good pickup by the Sharks, and they are a better team right now for it. I just doubt the wisdom of giving up so much so quickly. My only gripe in my previous post was people counting them out as perennial choke artists. They've certainly not done much to prove me wrong in recent years, but they're too good of a team to dismiss outright due to some flameouts.

Either way, I'm sure Burns is ecstatic and Gooch is pissed right now. What a dick move to sign and trade like that.
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#73 dirtydangles

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:30 PM

i had some time to cool off today. i guess this is really a two sided coin. i honestly really liked burns, so did babs. but there are two ways to skin a cat, and holland is currently choosing the one i wasn't in favor of, but it'll have the same result (a better team). we just have so many pieces to add, and its hard to make a plan for getting them that works. i thought that burns would have been great because of his low cap hit for next season, allowing us the opportunity to sign richards and wiz. there were obvious downsides that holland didn't agree with (prospect cost, risk).

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#74 Uncle Danny

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:38 PM

On that note, what do you suppose the likelihood that we start seeing more players requesting NTCs and/or testing the UFA market as a result of the past few days? Setoguchi and Carter both just go no-vaselined for signing in (assumed) good faith.
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#75 dirtydangles

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:44 PM

On that note, what do you suppose the likelihood that we start seeing more players requesting NTCs and/or testing the UFA market as a result of the past few days? Setoguchi and Carter both just go no-vaselined for signing in (assumed) good faith.


ya i could see some sort of ntc for the coming season. that would be more reasonable. not sure if thats possible? but it would be a nice guarantee for players and not cripple a team if things dont work out that year.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#76 Wingzman91

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:12 PM

There was no way we could match the SJ offer, but, I don't think it would have got that high, without someone driving the bids.

It's likely Holland is just as mad that he couldn't land Burns.

We DO have Lidstrom this year and I'm pretty sure everyone was looking at next year as the rebuild year, this year is another band-aid year, hold on to the wagon, the ride always gets easier.

I'm sure July 3rd everyone will be planning the parade.

Let's Go Wings!

Edited by Wingzman91, 25 June 2011 - 07:17 PM.


#77 RedFX

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:23 PM

Burns is the scape goat.... its the idea he got traded and the Front Office let it go with out a fight or a offer....then trade the 1st pick away for 2 second rounders because they are confident the players they are looking at will be there when they want them.(does that mean we never look at players above the rank of 30?) honestly its frustrating.... to see all these teams around us getting better and wondering why Holland is prepared to wait. Why is my question. does he think that there is another Datsyuk or Zett sitting in the later rounds that only HE knows about..... sometimes playing it cool and patient doesnt make you a better team...or a better GM. It makes you play golf in May.

He wants his players to be aggressive and play to their ability, Why can't we expect the same from our GM? He has players of value...and cap space. and still has done very little when you look at what has been done around the league.

Well first off, Ken Holland has never missed the playoffs during his tenure as the Wings GM...So whatever strategy he's using, I'd say it's a pretty good one.

"He let it go without a fight or offer." How do you know this? Are you suggesting Cliff Fletcher walked over to our table and said "I'll give you Burns for free" and Holland turned them down? Essentially, Minnesota got 3 first round picks, all offensive guys, from this deal. The Wings didn't have that kind of depth of young offensive players, so Minnesota turned to someone who did. There are probably a bazillion gajillion trade discussions that happen during the course of the year, and realistically only a slim percentage of those actually result in trades. Ken Holland is a smart guy. He knows what other teams are doing. He knows what our strengths and weaknesses are. One way or another, he's going to address those needs. But he's also going to do it in a way that helps us in the long run, just not this season.
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#78 Crymson

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:39 PM

There's no way Holland would have made that trade without Burns being signed to an extension. Seto was just signed to a home-town discount contract for 3 years and he's been dealt for a d-man who's got 1 year left on his pre-UFA contract.


Here's another thing that Holland would never do: screw a player as royally as Doug Wilson just did Setoguchi. It was a terrible thing. Setoguchi signed at a very reasonable rate (lower than he could have gotten) because he loves San Jose, and he absolutely gushed afterward about how excited he was to continue playing there; and then Wilson traded him less than 24 hours later. That's just low.

The fact that this organization doesn't toy with its players like that is one of the reasons why it's an attractive destination for free agents.

With the Sharks getting Brent Burns they just got a shutdown D-man and they are MUCH better. I guess we'll see who makes the biggest splash after 1 July, but for now, it looks like SJ has the biggest splash followed by Kings then the Blue Jackets. As for the Flyers...they just got themselves another Bobby Luo...a choker.

Don't pass up on James Wisniewski.


Brent Burns is not a shutdown D-man. He's somewhat gifted offensively, but he's only average defensively.

ya i could see some sort of ntc for the coming season. that would be more reasonable. not sure if thats possible? but it would be a nice guarantee for players and not cripple a team if things dont work out that year.


Uhh.. what? I don't get it.

Edited by Crymson, 25 June 2011 - 07:40 PM.


#79 Hockeytown_Ryan

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:20 PM

After reading up on it here:

Fletcher says he got a lot of calls. I'd guess one of them was from Holland, but we just didn't have the assets Minnesota was looking for. They wanted a young shooter, so none of our roster players would have fit. We don't have any prospects currently rated as highly as Coyle, plus Flethcer seems to really like both Coyle and Gooch.

Maybe something like Tatar, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, + our 1st could have gotten it done, but I wouldn't weaken our forward prospects that much for Burns. He's not Shea Weber.


Currently we have $16,207,955


Well that sheds some light on the subject.... Thanks for the article.!! :thumbup:

Holland turned one pick (#24) into two picks (#35 and #48). Without making this move, the Wings only get one of those players. THAT is the point!!


Well I suppose... in 3-4 years it will pay off right?!?? Tell Nick Lidstrom tough luck on going out with a cup for me! other teams got better by trading their picks for immediate help (which we need) That is MY point! I see yours as well tho.

Well first off, Ken Holland has never missed the playoffs during his tenure as the Wings GM...So whatever strategy he's using, I'd say it's a pretty good one.

"He let it go without a fight or offer." How do you know this? Are you suggesting Cliff Fletcher walked over to our table and said "I'll give you Burns for free" and Holland turned them down? Essentially, Minnesota got 3 first round picks, all offensive guys, from this deal. The Wings didn't have that kind of depth of young offensive players, so Minnesota turned to someone who did. There are probably a bazillion gajillion trade discussions that happen during the course of the year, and realistically only a slim percentage of those actually result in trades. Ken Holland is a smart guy. He knows what other teams are doing. He knows what our strengths and weaknesses are. One way or another, he's going to address those needs. But he's also going to do it in a way that helps us in the long run, just not this season.


Why do people think they need to put words into other peoples mouths???..... I never once thought that Burns for nothing....

Well when a quote from Babcock says something to the effect of “They just hit a home run,” “That’s a gold medal pick. I’m pissed off.”
That kinda tells me that Holland had the ability...just not the willingness to go ahead and pull the trigger! which means No body wants Hudler and Flip is off limits.... no trades get done to better our selves we must rely on Free Agency... Jagr anyone???


I am sure trade talks are like a fever during the draft... everyone catches one! But jeez..... with a quality D man that you know you need.... you make that deal happen.

#80 Heaten

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:31 PM

I am sure trade talks are like a fever during the draft... everyone catches one! But jeez..... with a quality D man that you know you need.... you make that deal happen.


How? Trade Datsyuk? Trade Filppula + Helm + Sheahan + Smith?

Highly doubt Wild 'wanted' a 2-way forward that doens't even score 20 goals, so Holland would have to sweeten the deal by throwing in Helm and Sheahan. And I highly doubt a team like the Wild want anything to do with a 10 year+ contact in Franzen. So who do they trade? You really think Holland should mortgage the future for a above average dman with concussion issues and will be an UFA next summer?

Really?

Boy, sure glad you are not the GM of this team...

Thankfully, Illitch is too smart to hire anyone with your inabilities anyhow.





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