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#1 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 11:51 AM

http://www.nydailyne...rs_rangers.html

does any one else find it annoying that teams are able to bail themselves out of terrible contracts by sending players to the minors? Chicago doing with Huet last summer, the Oilers doing it with Souray, the Rangers doing it with Wade Redden. In my opinion, these teams should have to deal with the stupidity they bring upon themselves. Its an absolute cop out and they humiliate these players in the process by sending them to the minors. I hope the next CBA corrects this.

#2 Frank the Tank

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 12:22 PM

http://www.nydailyne...rs_rangers.html

does any one else find it annoying that teams are able to bail themselves out of terrible contracts by sending players to the minors? Chicago doing with Huet last summer, the Oilers doing it with Souray, the Rangers doing it with Wade Redden. In my opinion, these teams should have to deal with the stupidity they bring upon themselves. Its an absolute cop out and they humiliate these players in the process by sending them to the minors. I hope the next CBA corrects this.


What do you propose? A league mandate that players signed MUST play in the NHL regardless of their performance? That sounds dumb. Did you ever think that these players are humiliating themselves by being bad hockey players and not living up to their contracts? Huet is getting 5+million to play in the Swiss National League and be close to his family. Poor guy!

Edited by Frank the Tank, 25 June 2011 - 12:28 PM.


#3 Johnny Diamonds

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 12:22 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/2011/06/25/2011-06-25_richards_race_favors_rangers.html

does any one else find it annoying that teams are able to bail themselves out of terrible contracts by sending players to the minors? Chicago doing with Huet last summer, the Oilers doing it with Souray, the Rangers doing it with Wade Redden. In my opinion, these teams should have to deal with the stupidity they bring upon themselves. Its an absolute cop out and they humiliate these players in the process by sending them to the minors. I hope the next CBA corrects this.


Things like that may hurt them during Free Agency, Players see how they treated Huet. That may turn some players and agents off.

#4 Konnan511

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 01:02 PM

I swear to God I've seen this exact thread before....
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#5 RusDRW

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 04:18 PM

How do you say in NA? What goes around comes around? At least, I heard something like that... Assume you're Logan Couture, a second line center negotiating a new contract with highly competitive SJS. Will you give them a kind of discount? Will you believe them if they say we are not trading you? What if Red Wings are not making play-offs and Lidstrom is available (hypothetical, I know)? What if you signed cheap and play above expectations? Are you sure they won't trade you for a good chance to get a cup? What's about Van Riemsdyk? Claude Giroux? How do you think Campbell feels now? More likely than not he will never get a chance to come close to the play-offs... It is sunny in Florida but what if he actually likes hockey and wants to compete?
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#6 syntax

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 04:35 PM

It's very annoying. There's a salary cap for a reason. If you send a player to the minors/overseas...you should be responsible for 50% of his salary against that years cap. Only way I can think of to solve it.

Above poster is correct about same agents/players being 'turned off' by how players are treated this way....but that seems like too small of a penalty to me.

Wish we could have a soft cap with a 'luxury tax' in the NHL....oh well.
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#7 Crymson

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:07 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/2011/06/25/2011-06-25_richards_race_favors_rangers.html

does any one else find it annoying that teams are able to bail themselves out of terrible contracts by sending players to the minors? Chicago doing with Huet last summer, the Oilers doing it with Souray, the Rangers doing it with Wade Redden. In my opinion, these teams should have to deal with the stupidity they bring upon themselves. Its an absolute cop out and they humiliate these players in the process by sending them to the minors. I hope the next CBA corrects this.


I think it's silly that this is allowed. More, it's unfair, because whereas richer teams can simply take bad contracts and shove them into the minors, the teams with less money can't afford ot do so.

#8 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:51 PM

What do you propose? A league mandate that players signed MUST play in the NHL regardless of their performance? That sounds dumb. Did you ever think that these players are humiliating themselves by being bad hockey players and not living up to their contracts? Huet is getting 5+million to play in the Swiss National League and be close to his family. Poor guy!


My issue isn't with the player, its with the GM's and the team's management. Glen Sather is getting bailed out by this loophole: he gets to stuff a veteran in the minors and he is hoping that Chris Drury's injury is bad enough that he can put him on long term IR. That doesn't sound a little disgusting to you? And the result is now he gets a free shot at Brad Richards...so he can throw more stupid contracts around. It is ridiculous how he doesn't have to pay for his mistakes of offering terrible contracts. I just feel like GMs should not be able to be bailed out like that so easily...

Edited by unsaddleddonald, 26 June 2011 - 02:25 AM.


#9 Crymson

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:58 PM

What do you propose? A league mandate that players signed MUST play in the NHL regardless of their performance? That sounds dumb. Did you ever think that these players are humiliating themselves by being bad hockey players and not living up to their contracts? Huet is getting 5+million to play in the Swiss National League and be close to his family. Poor guy!


I think there should be a salary cut-off, over which a team must pay the buyout value of a player's contract if they want to stash him in the minors.

#10 F.Michael

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:06 PM

It's very annoying. There's a salary cap for a reason. If you send a player to the minors/overseas...you should be responsible for 50% of his salary against that years cap. Only way I can think of to solve it.

Above poster is correct about same agents/players being 'turned off' by how players are treated this way....but that seems like too small of a penalty to me.

Wish we could have a soft cap with a 'luxury tax' in the NHL....oh well.

In response to the bold - I'm pretty certain this will be pushed by the Don Fehr led NHLPA after the 2011/2012 season.

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#11 InKennyWeTrust

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:08 PM

How about an opt-out clause, similar to MLB?

#12 55fan

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:19 PM

I was reading an article recently about this. I can't recall where it was- online or in print.

The gist of it was that the guys who go to the minors end up with more money than if they stayed in the NHL due to the fact that they get to keep it all whereas they have to put a certain amount into some sort of fund if they get the money whilst playing in the NHL.

The upshot was that they'd rather be playing in the NHL, but the extra money was a cool silver lining to the cloud.

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#13 Travis

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:57 AM

I was reading an article recently about this. I can't recall where it was- online or in print.

The gist of it was that the guys who go to the minors end up with more money than if they stayed in the NHL due to the fact that they get to keep it all whereas they have to put a certain amount into some sort of fund if they get the money whilst playing in the NHL.

The upshot was that they'd rather be playing in the NHL, but the extra money was a cool silver lining to the cloud.


The Emergency Assistance Fund?

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#14 55fan

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:23 PM

The Emergency Assistance Fund?

I don't believe they're the same fund. That is what their fines are used for. This is a different one that they have to give to because the players can't get more than a certain amount of the league's income in any given year.

I'll see if I can't find something online. I think they called it an escrow account.

EDIT to add:
I did a search and couldn't find the article I read, but I did find that there is some question about the information I had read. Basically, all players have to put a certain percentage into an escrow account and at the end of the year they get some of it back depending on the exact amount that the league made.

The problem with Redden and those kind of cases is that they are not paying in, but are used in some sort of figuring in the return of the money. It is all over my head.

Edited by 55fan, 26 June 2011 - 12:56 PM.

Money on the board:  Current total: $6

$1 for a goal by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster.  An additional $5 for a series-clinching goal scored by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster. $5 if the other team fails to score against a current Wing goalie after whom I have named a hamster.

Hamsters I have had:  (current Wings highlighted)

Henrik Pavel Tomas Nicklas Dominik

Niklas Matthew Daniel Robert

Johan Andreas Valtteri Jonathan

Andrew Patrick Ian Todd

Jordin Damien Gustav James


#15 Majsheppard

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:31 PM

I just say that you make it so something like 40% of their salary stays up. Then 33% buy-out makes more sense in the offseason and you could still get cap relief by sending someone down, just not total cap relief.
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This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#16 stevkrause

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:12 PM

I just say that you make it so something like 40% of their salary stays up. Then 33% buy-out makes more sense in the offseason and you could still get cap relief by sending someone down, just not total cap relief.

Agreed completely, I hadn't given the actual % much thought, but this seems like a very easy way to solve it - one way contract sent down/shipped overseas - Part of it counts to the cap.

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Here in this one as well

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#17 Barrie

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:19 PM

Wish we could have a soft cap with a 'luxury tax' in the NHL....oh well.

Me too. I'd actually be willing to miss another entire season to get a Luxury Tax.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/2011/06/25/2011-06-25_richards_race_favors_rangers.html

does any one else find it annoying that teams are able to bail themselves out of terrible contracts by sending players to the minors? Chicago doing with Huet last summer, the Oilers doing it with Souray, the Rangers doing it with Wade Redden. In my opinion, these teams should have to deal with the stupidity they bring upon themselves. Its an absolute cop out and they humiliate these players in the process by sending them to the minors. I hope the next CBA corrects this.

Personally I don't have a problem with this. The players humiliated themselves by playing to poorly.
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#18 Grim

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:39 PM

maybe someone can correct me... but i distinctly remember that teams had to include the cap numbers of waived AHL or overseas players at some point just before the start of the season. if so, this means its not really a perpetual loophole.

an aside; while I am ALL for punishing franchises that agree to silly contracts... I don't agree in punishing the individual player. waived players imho should get off scott-free and available as unrestricted free agents (unable to sign with waiving team for 1 year of course) no cap hits attached. of *course* this might bring up the notion of collusion, especially if there is a trade/signing in principle. they might have to let waived players stew out of the league for some arbitrary time.

#19 Grim

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:44 PM

Personally I don't have a problem with this. The players humiliated themselves by playing to poorly.



I still feel some of these contracts are constructed to be so distasteful that no team can match it... regardless of the player's output. I bet the devils could put Ilya Kovalchuk and his silly contract on waivers and it will likely pass.

#20 stevkrause

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:51 PM

maybe someone can correct me... but i distinctly remember that teams had to include the cap numbers of waived AHL or overseas players at some point just before the start of the season. if so, this means its not really a perpetual loophole.

an aside; while I am ALL for punishing franchises that agree to silly contracts... I don't agree in punishing the individual player. waived players imho should get off scott-free and available as unrestricted free agents (unable to sign with waiving team for 1 year of course) no cap hits attached. of *course* this might bring up the notion of collusion, especially if there is a trade/signing in principle. they might have to let waived players stew out of the league for some arbitrary time.

Very good point, maybe combine the 2 ideas. If a one way player is sent down, or not on the main roster for X amount of days, when healthy, in one NHL season, they can opt out of their contract the following off season and in the meantime, while waived, the club sending them down is still responsible for 40% of the caphit... maybe even put in some arbitration buyout clause, where the can opt out, but the offending club is still monitarilly responsible for a portion of their contract, almost an imposed buy out, at the players discretion... then add the X amount of time clause, after opting out, to be allowed to re-sign for collusion protection...

For all the idiocy that occurs on this board at times, then there are ideas like that in this thread that give me hope!

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.






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