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Filling Out Roster From Within


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#1 Chunkylover

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 11:55 AM

Would the Wings be that bad if Holland filled the holes in the roster with guys from the system? It would make the Wings younger, ostensibly quicker, maybe more durable, and eventually some of our prospects need to feel the pressure to perform.

How might the roster look and what expectations would you have?

#2 Din758

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 12:03 PM

I dont think we have a goalie that would be reliable in a backup spot, remember how horrible mccollum was against the blues this year.

We also dont have a Dman who can replace Raffi. Smith would be the best candidate to try, but a rookie cant fill those shoes.

So with that said I dont think its possible.

But I do like where your head is at, one of these years coming up, potentially 2012-2013 season, will be rough when we are forced to bring up a few of these youngins.

But thats a day nobody wants to think about...
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#3 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 12:10 PM

Would the Wings be that bad if Holland filled the holes in the roster with guys from the system? It would make the Wings younger, ostensibly quicker, maybe more durable, and eventually some of our prospects need to feel the pressure to perform.

How might the roster look and what expectations would you have?


It would look something like this, more than likely:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m)
Drew Miller ($0.850m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($2.300m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($1.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,829,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,470,456

There is no way we leave 9.5 million floating out there...

#4 kingzetter

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 12:10 PM

I dont think we have a goalie that would be reliable in a backup spot, remember how horrible mccollum was against the blues this year.

We also dont have a Dman who can replace Raffi. Smith would be the best candidate to try, but a rookie cant fill those shoes.

So with that said I dont think its possible.

But I do like where your head is at, one of these years coming up, potentially 2012-2013 season, will be rough when we are forced to bring up a few of these youngins.

But thats a day nobody wants to think about...

Agreed...goalie wise wings look shaky..never really had alot of prospect goalies in our system...

#5 Chunkylover

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 01:41 PM

Is Kronwall incapable of being our #1 defenseman. He was awesome in the playoffs. I don't see Lidstrom/Smith as the second pairing as a bad idea. Wasn't Ericsson part of the first pairing in the '09 playoffs.

My thinking is that guys like Setoguchi can perform, why can't ours?

#6 Majsheppard

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 01:46 PM

It would look something like this, more than likely:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m)
Drew Miller ($0.850m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($2.300m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($1.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,829,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,470,456

There is no way we leave 9.5 million floating out there...


There might be no choice but to leave the money there. Plus it could lead to trades further in the season and make the next two years easier in terms of keeping our own.


Other options.
Maybe Larsson gets a shot for Osgood.
Tatar or Nyquivst perhaps gets called up, in place of Miller or Eaves if not signed.

All of this supports my suggestion that we go after Richards.

Also, Jagr might be happening now.
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#7 Rivalred

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 06:24 PM

Smith can't be any worse than Salei or Ericsson
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#8 Datsyerberger

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 06:29 PM

The forwards would be fine. The defense would blow. It pretty much comes down to that.
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#9 Shaman

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 06:33 PM

The Wings won't get too far with that roster. Too injury prone up front, and the two biggest holes on defense haven't been addressed (the loss of Rafi's 50 points, and the need for one more solid defender). Other teams have the Wings' number they need to have some new look for next season or face the fact that they will lose early in the playoffs again.
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#10 Chunkylover

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 08:12 PM

Smith can't be any worse than Salei or Ericsson

Is Ericsson that much worse than Salei. Maybe Salei took less penalties than Ericsson. Would Smith/Ericsson be a lateral move from Salei/Ericsson?

The forwards would be fine. The defense would blow. It pretty much comes down to that.

I think the defensive problems might have had a lot to do with strategy and shaky goaltending in the regular season because our defense last season was the same on paper, if not better, than the 2008 team. Granted, a healthy Rafalski is better than an injured Rafalski, Lidstrom has aged, and Stuart struggles with consistency, but Salei/Ericsson is in no way worse than Lilja/Lebda. Team commitment to defense and great goaltending (2008 tandem was not just a product of the system) made the difference then and must be rediscovered to move forward.

The Wings won't get too far with that roster. Too injury prone up front, and the two biggest holes on defense haven't been addressed (the loss of Rafi's 50 points, and the need for one more solid defender). Other teams have the Wings' number they need to have some new look for next season or face the fact that they will lose early in the playoffs again.

Injuries were probably the main thing that hurt us against the Sharks this year. I disagree that other teams have the Wings number, but in any regard, once the team adjusts to the coaching transition it will likely present problems for those opponents who knew what to expect against Detroit.

Health is obviously key, and is not guaranteed by youth (Crosby/Malkin injuries), but the prevailing idea is that the Wings must get younger. The cap prevents the Wings from having their cake and eating it too. We can't just poach young, established stars anymore. I wonder what guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who never saw the minors, displayed to management that our current prospects lack.

#11 Shaman

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 08:23 PM

Is Ericsson that much worse than Salei. Maybe Salei took less penalties than Ericsson. Would Smith/Ericsson be a lateral move from Salei/Ericsson?

I think the defensive problems might have had a lot to do with strategy and shaky goaltending in the regular season because our defense last season was the same on paper, if not better, than the 2008 team. Granted, a healthy Rafalski is better than an injured Rafalski, Lidstrom has aged, and Stuart struggles with consistency, but Salei/Ericsson is in no way worse than Lilja/Lebda. Team commitment to defense and great goaltending (2008 tandem was not just a product of the system) made the difference then and must be rediscovered to move forward.

Injuries were probably the main thing that hurt us against the Sharks this year. I disagree that other teams have the Wings number, but in any regard, once the team adjusts to the coaching transition it will likely present problems for those opponents who knew what to expect against Detroit.

Health is obviously key, and is not guaranteed by youth (Crosby/Malkin injuries), but the prevailing idea is that the Wings must get younger. The cap prevents the Wings from having their cake and eating it too. We can't just poach young, established stars anymore. I wonder what guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who never saw the minors, displayed to management that our current prospects lack.

Good defense, timely scoring, goal tending and health are all keys. Detroit seems to be lacking all of these at time. Everyone not named Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Rafalski are inconsistent in timely scoring. The Wings defense has been suspect for two years same with the Wings health and goal tending. It would be nice for the Wings to get younger, but who in the system can step into the NHL tomorrow and produce? Smith, possibly Tatar and Mursak. Emmerton is more than likely a bust and the rest of the Wings prospects are 2+ years away. If the Wings wish to be competitive this year they need to add 2 defensemen, one a puck mover, and one more the stay at home type. Sorry but it wasn't injuries that sunk the wings, it was untimely mistakes and 0 clutch scoring.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#12 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 01:50 AM

Kronwall-Stuart
Lidstrom-Ericsson
Smith-??????
???????

#13 eva unit zero

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:17 AM

The closest thing the Wings could put in who was in the system last season, in terms of skill and playing style? Derek Meech. He was the Griffins' best defenseman, but I don't see him getting a top-six spot ahead of Smith, who also has the kind of offensive skills (at a lower level) Rafalski did. So if we filled out the roster from within, cutting out Modano, Draper, and Rafalski (I think Osgood stays).

It would look something like this, more than likely:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m)
Drew Miller ($0.850m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($2.300m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($1.000m)

There is no way we leave 9.5 million floating out there...


I don't see those being the "regular" lines. Either Bertuzzi would be switched with Cleary (put more size on Hudler's wing) or Z switches with Hudler and Cleary switches with Homer. The second one is more likely, although the first one would be a pretty good "home" set with that Cleary/Filppula/Eaves line available. Might want to also switch Eaves with one of Mursak or Abby. Make the Helm line either much quicker or more physical. I like the D pairs in general, but the Ericsson/Kindl pair does make me twitch a little. Maybe switch it up a bit to look like this:

Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary
Franzen/Zetterberg/Holmstrom
Bertuzzi/Filppula/Abdelkader
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Emmerton

Kronwall/Ericsson
Lidstrom/Smith
Kindl/Stuart
Meech
Janik

Howard
Osgood

I put Meech in instead of Miller because of the similarity between Meech and Rafalski, as well as the fact that negotiations seem to have stalled between Holland and Miller last I heard. Maybe Meech even takes Ericsson's job; if that happens do this:

Kronwall/Smith
Lidstrom/Meech
Kindl/Stuart

However... Looking at Smith/Meech/Kindl on that defense, it's kind of scary. Maybe it works, maybe it fails horribly and the Wings finish last. But given the cap hits for everyone who would be re-signed... the Wings could go sign whatever defenseman they want for $7m and replace Meech on that line, and be done and it would be much better.

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#14 Shaman

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:59 AM

The closest thing the Wings could put in who was in the system last season, in terms of skill and playing style? Derek Meech. He was the Griffins' best defenseman, but I don't see him getting a top-six spot ahead of Smith, who also has the kind of offensive skills (at a lower level) Rafalski did. So if we filled out the roster from within, cutting out Modano, Draper, and Rafalski (I think Osgood stays).



I don't see those being the "regular" lines. Either Bertuzzi would be switched with Cleary (put more size on Hudler's wing) or Z switches with Hudler and Cleary switches with Homer. The second one is more likely, although the first one would be a pretty good "home" set with that Cleary/Filppula/Eaves line available. Might want to also switch Eaves with one of Mursak or Abby. Make the Helm line either much quicker or more physical. I like the D pairs in general, but the Ericsson/Kindl pair does make me twitch a little. Maybe switch it up a bit to look like this:

Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary
Franzen/Zetterberg/Holmstrom
Bertuzzi/Filppula/Abdelkader
Mursak/Helm/Eaves
Emmerton

Kronwall/Ericsson
Lidstrom/Smith
Kindl/Stuart
Meech
Janik

Howard
Osgood

I put Meech in instead of Miller because of the similarity between Meech and Rafalski, as well as the fact that negotiations seem to have stalled between Holland and Miller last I heard. Maybe Meech even takes Ericsson's job; if that happens do this:

Kronwall/Smith
Lidstrom/Meech
Kindl/Stuart

However... Looking at Smith/Meech/Kindl on that defense, it's kind of scary. Maybe it works, maybe it fails horribly and the Wings finish last. But given the cap hits for everyone who would be re-signed... the Wings could go sign whatever defenseman they want for $7m and replace Meech on that line, and be done and it would be much better.

Theres a reason why no team picked up Meech and why Brett "I blow" Lebda was in the roster over him. Think about it.

Edited by Shaman464, 29 June 2011 - 11:03 AM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#15 Finnish Wing

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:16 AM

Theres a reason why no team picked up Meech and why Brett "I blow" Lebda was in the roster over him. Think about it.

NO there isn't! LEAVE DEREK ALONE!
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#16 eva unit zero

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 05:51 PM

Theres a reason why no team picked up Meech and why Brett "I blow" Lebda was in the roster over him. Think about it.


The first one, Maybe because of age plus lack of games played. The second, not really. Meech consistently outperformed Lebda when given ice time. I seriously don't understand how Lebda lasted so long on the Wings, given the fact that Meech and Quincey were better players and either would have been a better fit. The only thing I can think of is that Lebda lived off a good performance in his first year, despite the fact that every season afterwards was worse. Ericsson seems to be doing the same thing with his playoff performance in 2009.
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#17 Majsheppard

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 05:54 PM

I would rather roll with our own guys now. Just survive this free agency, next year there will be more and we won't have to over pay. We can win with a trade.
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#18 Wings Fan in Aves Country

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 07:29 PM

I would rather roll with our own guys now. Just survive this free agency, next year there will be more and we won't have to over pay. We can win with a trade.


This with one change
Bring in Jovo. i say this because i think he can provide experience to a young core and serve as a proper mentor for erikson - think back to when cheli mentored him - and maybe he can develop into a #4 defenseman

Also, this might not belong in this thread, but this is what i'd call the stretch pass:
sign jovo - see reasons above
trade for victor hedman - the lightning need space to sign stamkos and they, at the very least, will not be able to keep him next year. i am guessing he could be had for prospects and picks as the tb would not want to add salary

#19 Majsheppard

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 07:31 PM

Aves country?


Han-zel?

EDIT:double post and old bugs bunny joke.

Edited by Majsheppard, 29 June 2011 - 07:32 PM.

"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#20 Wings Fan in Aves Country

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 07:32 PM

Aves country?

Aves country?

Han-zel?

denver





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