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Wings re-sign Ericsson to 3-year, $9.75m contract


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#341 gcom007

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 02:44 AM

Sorry, gang, but when I joined here people were lambasting Kronner at $3m/year. I don't think that by the end of this we'll be sorry.


I think Kronwall was always a different player though. Kronwall has always had the potential to be a number 1 defenseman and he showed that he was capable of living up and growing into it when healthy. The issue was certainly the injuries, and it's still a reasonable concern heading into his next contract. Plus, the injuries were more out of his control than his development and play on the ice.

Ericsson hasn't had the injuries. Ericsson has had nothing but plenty of opportunities and ice time. What has he done the whole time he's been a regular on this Wings team?

Struggle.

Sloppy mental game. Far more than occasionally terrible in our zone with the puck. He doesn't use his size. His offense hasn't come through as many expected it to.

Even accounting for potential, he has done absolutely nothing to deserve $3.25 million a year on this team. It's a slap in the face to too many guys and it's a message to anyone on the outside that the days of taking a discount to come to Detroit are over. The Red Wing product has been devalued by this deal.

Think about that point from another perspective entirely.

Consider Apple. Yes, the computer company. Their products are expensive, but arguably considered to be among the best in many classes. Apple products rarely if ever go on sale, and it's never for long or for too steep of a discount. Even if you don't like Apple, you cannot argue that there is a huge demand among consumers for iMacs, iPhones, iPads, etc...with that kind of demand, they don't need to have sales, and more and more people don't care because they still are getting the most value for their dollar.

What would happen if Apple had sales every other week and sold $499 iPads for $299? How many people would buy an iPad while priced at $499 when they know that they can get one for $299 if they just wait a little? Suddenly the product is devalued. The willingness to spend top dollar is gone because now they know that they can get the product cheaper. It's now worth $299.

Furthermore, when you devalue your product, you anger your loyal customer base who paid top dollar for the same product. Remember when the iPhone first came out? It was $599. A few months later they marked it down to $399. What happened? Everyone who bought the iPhone at $599 got pissed. Apple ended up issuing them all $100 gift certificates for anything Apple sold in an effort to make amends, and they learned a lot from that mistake and have yet to come even remotely close to making it again.

Apple's smart enough to never devalue their product. They do not compromise on this, and they make no apologies for their higher prices particularly with computers. After all, they make a great product that consumers want, so why devalue it, and in doing so kill your profits all while also adding some serious stank to the exclusivity associated with owning products that are so highly valued? It would make no sense.

So what I'm getting at with all of this is that signing Jonathon Ericsson is a lot like Apple having a sale. When Ken Holland is negotiating with a defenseman in the future, he can no longer point to Brad Stuart as an example of where the Wings bar is at. Holland would point at Brad Stuart like Apple pointing at a $499 iPad one week while the defenseman is going to say, "yeah but..." and go on to point to Jonathon Ericsson like when Apple had the same iPad on sale for $299. This single signing more than any other signing Holland has ever made has surrendered a tremendous amount of leverage to the players. It shows weakness. It shatters exclusivity. How great can this team be if they're stuck having to pay Ericsson $3.25 million? Again, no one's going to be anxious to take a huge pay cut to play here after this signing. Count on it.

And to address the "furthermore" from the Apple example, you have to ask, how does Jimmy Howard feel about this? How does Dan Cleary feel about this? What about Brad Stuart? Guarantee you that each and every one of them scratched their heads and got a little (or a lot...) pissed tonight. Also, what does this say to Eaves and Miller now? What about Helm, Abdelkader and Kindl? Every last one of them is thinking one thing that is the same: next time around, I'm going to get mine too.

More and more it seems that Ken Holland is dragging the Red Wing brand through the mud. This signing is by far the clearest proof of that. If he can't pull it together in the next year, I'm going to be more than ready to join those thinking that it's time for him to move on. He's smart enough to still be effective, hopefully here, though if not, certainly somewhere else. At this point though, I think he may be too entrenched in the familiarity and loyalty that goes along with it to make the right decisions. He's compromising too much when he shouldn't, not moving fast enough when he needs to and he just seems wholly unwilling to take risks or deal anyone away to try and make the team better or set the team up to be in a better position to sign guys to make the team better.

Again, I've never been a Holland basher. I've rarely critiqued deals much past occasionally raising an eyebrow. I've given him the benefit of the doubt time and again. But too many negative patterns have been emerging the last 3-4 years that have brought to the point tonight at which I'm for the very first time questioning whether Holland still has what it takes to manage this team.

-Elliot


#342 gcom007

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 03:05 AM

Only one of Franzen or Hossa was going to be resigned.


Says who? You might want to get your facts straight before calling me out. Holland had a deal on the table for Hossa up to the moment he signed with Chicago. He absolutely wanted to and tried to sign both players. The only debatable element is how hard did he try to do so?

Franzen agreed to terms, Hossa did not (nor did I ever hear about him saying he'll take a discount).


He absolutely went on the record numerous times saying he would take a steep discount. I believe the cap hit he and his agent wanted was around $5 million from the Wings, though I'm too tired to search for sources now. But after all, he ended up signing in Chicago for $5.5 million cap hit, so $5 million certainly isn't a logical stretch, and it'd be a phenomenal number to have a superstar like Hossa signed for.


It was Franzen who stopped us from getting Hossa, not Flip. If you're going to bring things up at least get your facts straight.


Neither of these things are true. Franzen didn't stop us from getting Hossa. He signed first but Holland didn't stop negotiating with Hossa. Flip has always been the most logical guy to move to clear cap space. He'd net the best return for the Wings and he's never played up to his contract in the context of the Wings system (though he'd be underpaid on many other teams, he's a good player, just very dispensable in the Wings system). Holland wanted to sign them both, but he wanted them both for the amount that Franzen signed for. While Franzen shouldn't have and didn't blink an eye at it considering the relative newness of his stardom, Hossa is a career elite player with a complete game worth $8-9 million a year if not more on the open market. Holland could've said goodbye to Samuellson and Hudler before they got the chance to say goodbye first and focused on getting Hossa signed for around $5 million. Then he could have traded Flip for some solid picks and have a bit of cap space to play with to bring in guys like he eventually did such as Bertuzzi and Eaves. He then has to deal with cap hell for 1 year before it all opens up again, and he'll have weathered the storm and come out alive with Hossa signed to an outstanding contract.

But he didn't want to take the risk. Not just with Hossa, but with anyone. He signed Franzen and then half-assed everything else and watched all of his free agents walk away. He admitted himself that he was taken by surprise. He didn't play it write. He didn't focus on what he so often preached which is "VALUE." The best move he could have made to get the most value out of his money was focusing on getting Hossa signed, letting Huds and Sammy walk, dealing Flip for picks. Then he could've used his greatest talent in finding under the radar guys and older guys with something left to prove to fill out the roster, much as he had to do anyways after he was left with nothing because he didn't put any real effort into anything.


On topic: This deal is terrible. Like others have said, it sends the wrong message to not only players on the Wings, but to other players around the league. In my opinion he didn't even deserve the 2 mil he was originally offered. I'm hoping Holland has something up his sleeve, or this could make it onto the worst signings by a GM list.


Agreed. Completely...and some. It'll never top Toronto getting fingered, but at the very least, there's a lot of potential for everyone to forget that they ever hated Lebda because they'll be so consumed with their anger over Ericsson.

-Elliot


#343 ShanahanMan

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 03:06 AM

Only one of Franzen or Hossa was going to be resigned. Franzen agreed to terms, Hossa did not (nor did I ever hear about him saying he'll take a discount). It was Franzen who stopped us from getting Hossa, not Flip. If you're going to bring things up at least get your facts straight.

On topic: This deal is terrible. Like others have said, it sends the wrong message to not only players on the Wings, but to other players around the league. In my opinion he didn't even deserve the 2 mil he was originally offered. I'm hoping Holland has something up his sleeve,
or this could make it onto the worst signings by a GM list.


That's the point though. A great GM would have MADE that work. Hossa was actually adamant on staying in Detroit, but Holland was refusing to make any neccessary changes in order to do so. As gmcom7 said, if you have a star player that's willing to stay for a bargain price, you do what you have to do to make it happen. He took the passive route and refused to pull the trigger.


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#344 ShanahanMan

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 03:40 AM

I just don't get it. According to this article:

http://www.freep.com...b|topnews|text%

Holland has admittedly said that he plans for Ericsson to be a bottom, 5th defenseman. Is there a single 5th/6th defeseman making over 3 mil a season? Toronto included?


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#345 joshy207

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 05:28 AM

Terrible defenseman + terrible contract = TERRIBLE SIGNING. 3 years too long, $9.75M too much. This was a kneejerk reaction to other GMs being PROACTIVE in acquiring free agents!

#346 pucktividi

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 05:34 AM

I'm simply speechless,but hell,maybe Ken expects from Ericsson to play a winger on the top line for this money :ph34r:

#347 RusDRW

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 05:36 AM

...
cutted
...
Again, I've never been a Holland basher. I've rarely critiqued deals much past occasionally raising an eyebrow. I've given him the benefit of the doubt time and again. But too many negative patterns have been emerging the last 3-4 years that have brought to the point tonight at which I'm for the very first time questioning whether Holland still has what it takes to manage this team.


Your comparison with Apple is excellent. Sadly no one hears...

Completely agree on the effect of this signing. In addition to Kronwall, Helm, Abs, etc. Patrick Eaves, a decent player, comes to my mind too. He is leaving now. Next year, Kronwall will request 6M. Stuart 5M. Helm 3. Abs 2+. Thanks, Kenny! Two of them will leave as well. A signature move that will definitely affect the short-term future by changing reputation of the Red Wings.

Edited by RusDRW, 01 July 2011 - 05:36 AM.

Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#348 Jusek

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 05:57 AM

Holy overpayment, Batman!

You gotta play well now, Big E.
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#349 Donaldjr2448

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 05:59 AM

This is the worse signing in a very long time for Holland! We just signed a guy do does not play phyiscal and gets beat to every God damn loose puck! Joe Thornton and many other Shrks players made this guy look like a pylon! If we do not get another top D-man by this weekend, we are doomed! Now we can't even trade Errorson, not even Brian Burke would pick this contract up! :ranting:

#350 uk_redwing

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 06:04 AM

Holland is magician, here's why:

  • Holland uses a 7th pick to draft Ericsson
  • Ericsson spent some time in GR to develop (no big deal)
  • Ericsson was a serviceable dman on the Red Wings for 2 years and a couple of big goals (one was game 7 of the SCF against Pens) at a minimal cost
  • Holland give him a 3yr deal with $9.75
  • Holland can easily turn that 7th round pick into an even better pick if he ever needs to trade him
Magic :thumbup:

Holland got a 5th for Leino. God knows Ericsson is a much better (and a more in-demand) player than Leino ever was in red and white.

Holland the magician. Has a nice ring to it ;)


Good job he has those magic scouts isn't it.

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#351 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 06:22 AM

Maybe if Babs dresses Ericsson in a Hawks sweater in the pre-season, Tallon will want to trade for him.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#352 55fan

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 06:45 AM

Elliot, your posts are eloquent, well-thought, and intellectually sound. I regret that I have reached my quota of +'s for the day.

I guess I consider this to be an over-pricing in an overpriced market. If Holland were selling, such as your example with Apple, I would consider it a good analogy. But Holland is the buyer, so to speak.

Suppose you were a buyer for an electronics store. Over the years you had gotten great deals from the manufacturers, many of which involved long-term commitments to the product, in return for which you got a volume discount. In other cases, you got them by your reputation as a good client.

You locked up many of your deals in advance. Sure, you had to let some go, but your company has a budget which you can't exceed.

Now electronics are overpriced. You have to stock your store, but all of the other buyers are clamoring to stock their stores as well. All of the non-contracted companies know that this year there is huge demand over the supply. You are not going to get any deals, even if the products are not as good as what the suppliers have turned out in previous years.

In the past, you have gotten contracts for iPads for an average of 6.02m/year for life, and you got a one-year deal on iPhones for 6.2 that they could easily have charged you up to 10 for.

Now you have to take what is there. And that means iPinto for 3.25. Take it or leave it. Tomorrow someone else gets the contract and they might pay much more, leaving you to over-pay for the iEdsel. (Sorry, I don't know enough about electronics to continue the analogy.)

Again, Elliot, thank you for your input. I may not agree, but it was a pleasure to read.

#353 RusDRW

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:09 AM

Elliot, your posts are eloquent, well-thought, and intellectually sound. I regret that I have reached my quota of +'s for the day.

[skipped for quoting]

Now you have to take what is there. And that means iPinto for 3.25. Take it or leave it. Tomorrow someone else gets the contract and they might pay much more, leaving you to over-pay for the iEdsel. (Sorry, I don't know enough about electronics to continue the analogy.)

Again, Elliot, thank you for your input. I may not agree, but it was a pleasure to read.


This analogy is good for brainless machines who cannot compare their abilities, not humans. Steve Jobs thinks for iApples, that is why they cost at least two times more than similar products from other brands. Like I mentioned next year iKronwall with ask about 6.5 per year while his normal price taking into account Red Wings hometown discount would be 5. Think yourself, what is the reason to give up on additional money when people around you have no such intentions at all?
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#354 xtrememachine1

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:09 AM

Let me get this out of the way right now, this isn't one of Holland's best signings. I would have been more than happy to let him walk than give him almost triple what he was making before. However, I don't think its quite as bad as everyone is making it out to be and here's why:

1. The salary cap went up by $5 mil. Bob Mackenzie reported somewhere that he expects it to go up another $5 mil next off season too. Ericsson was probably reasonably going to get around $2 mil, so we basically overpaid by $1 mil.

2. When Ericsson makes a mistake it really sticks out, but he finished with a +8 on the season, so he must have been doing something right. At times, I noticed him in a good way, using his body to block shots, hit somebody or rip the puck away. He HAS potential to be something special. Right now he's battling with consistency. If he could play like that all the time or at least most of the time, he'll be well worth the contract he just received.

3. Overpaying by a $1 mil for a young player with potential at a position that needs to be strong isn't a bad move. With the cap continuing to rise combined with older players coming off the books, taking a $1 mil gamble isn't the worst idea ever. Take a look at Zdeno Chara's first three years in the NHL. Not exactly stellar numbers. We're getting a new defensive coach this year and maybe whoever this guy is can work with him and get some consistency to his game.

4. If things are disastrous and he gets "lazier" and "suckier", just trade him. If there's one thing we've learned this off season is that bottom feeders that don't spend a lot of money will take on bad contracts to get to the cap floor.

5. I don't see this signing affecting our ability to sign Kronwall and Stuart. Kronwall will get a big pay day next year regardless of what Ericsson is making. The same can be said for Stuart. Paying an extra $1 mil for Ericsson won't break the bank especially if Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Hudler and Bert are all gone next season.

I'm NOT a fan of the signing and wouldn't have made it myself, however, I can see why Holland would make this move and I don't think he's panicking. I think he's gambling. He's gambling on Ericsson getting better. I don't think its a smart gamble, but only time will tell.

#355 The Secret

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:20 AM

Don't like this signing much right now... maybe Ericsson will using some of that money on a few cycles of steroids and some fighting lessons to help him earn the pay.

#356 55fan

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:27 AM

This analogy is good for brainless machines who cannot compare their abilities, not humans. Steve Jobs thinks for iApples, that is why they cost at least two times more than similar products from other brands. Like I mentioned next year iKronwall with ask about 6.5 per year while his normal price taking into account Red Wings hometown discount would be 5. Think yourself, what is the reason to give up on additional money when people around you have no such intentions at all?

That's true. However I do think that Kronner and Stuie will still take their discounts. The end results will be higher than we were expecting due to the precedent this season. IOW, with the cap having gone up, what was a 6.5 will become a 7 or 7.5. Kron and Stu will still take less than what they would get on the open market, but that amount will be higher. If they would have signed for 5 this year, it will be 5.5 or 6 next year.

The whole thing is like inflation. I paid $85 a month for my first apartment. No way I'm getting a price like that now. But if I had locked in on a lifetime agreement (and not moved, of course) I'd be sitting really pretty. What we're seeing here is a much higher adjustment than we've had in previous years.

On the other hand, prices could spike this year, and next year could be normal and Kronner and Stuie might have that "dang, I missed out!" feeling you get when you fill your gas tank only to see the price fall the next day.

And now, all of this talk of Apples, i or otherwise, is making me hungry. I'm off to the store for some fruit!

#357 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:42 AM

Got money?
Get game!

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- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#358 F.Michael

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:52 AM

I just don't get it. According to this article:

http://www.freep.com...b|topnews|text%

Holland has admittedly said that he plans for Ericsson to be a bottom, 5th defenseman. Is there a single 5th/6th defeseman making over 3 mil a season? Toronto included?

Dude - it's inflation, and the rising salary cap's fault!

:hehe:

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#359 wings_fanatic

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:55 AM

Yah Ericson was doing something right all right... PLAYING WITH RAFI!!! Look at the comparisons to the games Ericson played with Rafi compared to the games Rafi did not play... that plus/ minus took a hit! I love Kenny Holland, he has done wonders for this team, but imo this was a terrible signing... and if kenny is playing Ericson on the bottom pairing (which is where he belongs) then this is a HUGE overpayment. IMO I woulda rather had Lilja bought back for that at a cheaper price.

#360 matt198913

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 08:39 AM

I'm a huge fan of big E, but even I think he's not worth this much. Maybe we're wrong but wow
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





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