Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Holland Appreciation Thread


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#41 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,677 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 01 July 2011 - 12:37 AM

Great post.

Your post reminded me of what Mickey Redmond and other teams announcers said during the regular season. They were gushing how Detroit got such a good defenseman in Ericsson with a 7th round pick, and he will easily get $3.5+ million in the open market, but Detroit will probably get a generous home team discount. This was before the cap went up mind you.

So according to hockey announcers, Ericsson would get $3.5 million. Wings got him for $3.25 in a thin FA market and the salary cap significantly increasing.

I don't think Holland did bad considering the circumstances, and rest assured, Holland can trade Ericsson for nice draft picks (better than a 7th that used on him, that's for sure). Assuming he doesn't have a NMC, of course.

When was all of this?

I honestly don't recall any of that - however there were times when I hear "Ericsson", and any form of praise I tend to tune it out.

'Evolution' created by Offsides

#42 Heaten

Heaten

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,639 posts

Posted 01 July 2011 - 12:58 AM

When was all of this?

I honestly don't recall any of that - however there were times when I hear "Ericsson", and any form of praise I tend to tune it out.


During the end of the regular season. I believe (don;t quote me) it was Eddie Olczyk announcer of the Blackhawks and Mickey Redmond (don't remember the game)

#43 Andy Pred 48

Andy Pred 48

    Coming soon,"the slovak line" Marek and 2 Toms!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,865 posts
  • Location:Peterborough England

Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:00 AM

dont worry, Kenny has a master plan. LA cant get Doughty signed.......see what happens later
"What are you guys doing?" Reggie Dunlop
"Putting on the foil coach" Jeff Hanson
"Yeah, every game, you want some coach?" Steve Hanson
"Er, no. No thanks guys." Reggie Dunlop
"Make sure they don't leave the bench!" Reggie Dunlop.

#44 ben_usmc

ben_usmc

    Kenny Powers Fan

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,823 posts
  • Location:ypsilanti

Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:24 AM

Ericsson probably leveraged himself against what other UFA's are making. The poor free agent class probably upped his value.

I know I'm in the huge minority here, but considering what the other blueliners are going to be getting, I don't mind the signing.

so what Ericssonf****** sucks, there are tons of different methods in which to make the d better, none of which include Ericsson.
There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#45 55fan

55fan

    All mine 'til 2-0-1-9

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,922 posts
  • Location:Fargo, ND

Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:39 AM

"Action Failed: You have reached your quota for positive votes today"

Or else I'd plus one ya.

:)




PS- Why the heck is there a limit on plus one votes anyway? I can understand a quota on negatives, but positives too?

Fear not, for I too am out of + and - ability, and we would have just canceled each other out. So all is well on that front.
(My apologies to Barrie- you have had several posts today that I would have given a + if I had more to give.)

Back to topic:
Given the small number of free agent defensemen out there this year (Jovo, Salei, and Lilja were in the top 20 on a list I read), and given the prices that are demanded by other players and that will be demanded when the Noon Whistle blows today, I don't think that giving Ericsson a contract that is, yes, overblown for any other year is an indication that Holland is not a good GM. It just means that he's taking a known quantity over an unknown or rejected quantity and guaranteeing that it will come at a price that will not be as over-the-top as what others might demand.

On Ericsson's behalf, he would have seen higher on the open market. I do think that the fact that it took this long to negotiate would indicate that E was pushing for higher, which would be logical based on the poor class of UFA's this year.

Supply and demand are responsible for E's outrageous contract, not a mis-step on the part of Holland.

#46 Reds4Life

Reds4Life

    Red Wings

  • Gold Booster
  • 2,640 posts
  • Location:Czech republic

Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:41 AM

Maybe Holland will stay at home today..so he does not make any more MORONIC moves.

Ericsson for 3+ per year. LMAO.

Panic move by Kenny Perfect.

#47 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,726 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 01 July 2011 - 03:28 AM

Fear not, for I too am out of + and - ability, and we would have just canceled each other out. So all is well on that front.
(My apologies to Barrie- you have had several posts today that I would have given a + if I had more to give.)

Back to topic:

Given the small number of free agent defensemen out there this year (Jovo, Salei, and Lilja were in the top 20 on a list I read), and given the prices that are demanded by other players and that will be demanded when the Noon Whistle blows today, I don't think that giving Ericsson a
contract that is, yes, overblown for any other year is an indication that Holland is not a good GM. It just means that he's taking a known quantity over an unknown or rejected quantity and guaranteeing that it will come at a price that will not be as over-the-top as what others might
demand.

On Ericsson's behalf, he would have seen higher on the
open market. I do think that the fact that it took this long to negotiate would indicate that E was pushing for higher, which would be logical based on the poor class of UFA's this year.

Supply and demand are responsible for E's outrageous
contract, not a mis-step on the part of Holland.


Even if he would somehow get a Burkesque 3+mil contract on the market, which I really dont think he would have, that's no excuse to do the same. If that's what he commanded, you let him walk, even if it hurts us for a bit. You simply can NOT sign a player who's done NOTHING to deserve it for that kind of money. It's slap in the face to all the players on our team who work their ass off on small contracts (Jimmy signed for a little over 2 mil a season!!!) and makes a mockery of our whole management structure.

Oh and the "he had few options at this point" doesn't cut it. It's his own damn fault for sitting on his hands while 3 defensemen, including a top two one, were walking out the door. He should have made the move for SOMEONE, maybe Wiz, and got that snatched up. You simply can not afford to be passive in that kind of situation. He was, and paid for it by being forced to make a panic signing. Like I said, his own damn fault.


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#48 55fan

55fan

    All mine 'til 2-0-1-9

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,922 posts
  • Location:Fargo, ND

Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:14 AM

Has anyone else been wondering about the much-higher-than-average number of pick-for-negotiation-rights deals this year?

Several days ago, we were all chortling at Koko for a 7th and wondering who would give up a pick when they could just wait a couple of days. Now we're all beside ourselves that Holland didn't arrange something like that.

Is this a new trend, or is this something unique to this year?

I've noticed that everyone who did exchange a pick for someone either signed the person or re-traded their rights. Is this a case of the teams asking the player, "Well, if we don't sign you, where do you want to go?" and then trading their rights?

Once free agency starts today, and lesser players go for high contracts, do you think that the ones who signed early will have been paid enough of a lesser amount that players will be hesitant to do this in the future?

In other words, is this a one-year thing due to a lack of talent, or is this the beginning of a trend? I think it's a one-off and next year will be back to normal, but that's just me.

#49 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,677 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 01 July 2011 - 07:40 AM

Maybe Holland will stay at home today..so he does not make any more MORONIC moves.

Ericsson for 3+ per year. LMAO.

Panic move by Kenny Perfect.

This is one of the few times I agree with ya.

Anywho - I'm guessing Holland/Babcock must see something in Ericsson that we don't...Hopefully Holland is active today in that he still needs 1 more experienced Dman...White, and Kaberle are the 2 I bet he'll look at signing.

Wiz probably has an offer from the BJ's that he's ready to sign; come noon time Wiz may very well let rival GMs know what that offer is with hopes that someone (read Detroit) may match, or "1-up" the offer by Columbus...Dunno if Holland will go there :unsure:

Even if he would somehow get a Burkesque 3+mil contract on the market, which I really dont think he would have, that's no excuse to do the same. If that's what he commanded, you let him walk, even if it hurts us for a bit. You simply can NOT sign a player who's done NOTHING to deserve it for that kind of money. It's slap in the face to all the players on our team who work their ass off on small contracts (Jimmy signed for a little over 2 mil a season!!!) and makes a mockery of our whole management structure.

Oh and the "he had few options at this point" doesn't cut it. It's his own damn fault for sitting on his hands while 3 defensemen, including a top two one, were walking out the door. He should have made the move for SOMEONE, maybe Wiz, and got that snatched up. You simply can not afford to be passive in that kind of situation. He was, and paid for it by being forced to make a panic signing. Like I said, his own damn fault.

While Jimmy is a long way from being an All-Star calibre netminder he is at least competent, and has been improving since becomming a Red Wing...Dunno if we can say the same about Ericsson.

'Evolution' created by Offsides

#50 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,726 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 01 July 2011 - 08:53 AM

This is one of the few times I agree with ya.

Anywho - I'm guessing Holland/Babcock must see something in Ericsson that we don't...Hopefully Holland is active today in that he still needs 1 more experienced Dman...White, and Kaberle are the 2 I bet he'll look at signing.

Wiz probably has an offer from the BJ's that he's ready to sign; come noon time Wiz may very well let rival GMs know what that offer is with hopes that someone (read Detroit) may match, or "1-up" the offer by Columbus...Dunno if Holland will go there :unsure:


While Jimmy is a long way from being an All-Star calibre netminder he is at least competent, and has been improving since becomming a Red Wing...Dunno if we can say the same about Ericsson.


I think you misunderstood me, cause thats exactly what I was saying. Jimmy has been, in my opinion, pretty damn stellar and signs for price way less than market value. Yet then Holland goes and signs a guy who's been nothing but lackluster for a million more? Pretty insulting if you ask me.


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#51 Barrie

Barrie

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,941 posts

Posted 01 July 2011 - 09:38 AM

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mark-Spizzirri/Red-Wings-re-sign-Jonathan-Ericsson-panic-set-in-for-Holland/77/36794


Good article.

Thanks for posting that article. I don't think people realize that's what the market is for players like Ericsson. I think it's to high, but that's just how it is. Ericsson with his career 45 post seasons games would have got more money, and a longer term if he hit the open market. If Holland would have waited until today at noon to try and sign a UFA defenceman, he would have had to pay a lot more and for a longer term for someone with similar skills as Ericsson.

Holland made the right move, and people will realize it in a few weeks.

I think you misunderstood me, cause thats exactly what I was saying. Jimmy has been, in my opinion, pretty damn stellar and signs for price way less than market value. Yet then Holland goes and signs a guy who's been nothing but lackluster for a million more? Pretty insulting if you ask me.

That's just how the market is right now.
Lets Go:
Red Wings
Tigers
Roughriders
Lions
Spartans
Pistons

#52 Barrie

Barrie

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,941 posts

Posted 01 July 2011 - 09:48 AM

(My apologies to Barrie- you have had several posts today that I would have given a + if I had more to give.)

It's cool, I got your back, +1 for you.

And yes, the poor crop of this year's free agents raised Ericsson's value, and we'll see it starting today. These loooong term deals has over inflated the FA market, and it may get worse every year.
Lets Go:
Red Wings
Tigers
Roughriders
Lions
Spartans
Pistons

#53 sleepwalker

sleepwalker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,067 posts

Posted 01 July 2011 - 09:54 AM

More importantly, as was already pointed out, this move by Holland sets a horrible precedent and hurts team morale and on top of that, is going to drive up the prices our other players start asking by millions. (I mean, s***, imagine what Kronwall is going to ask for now, seeing someone like E get such an insane contract)

Think about it. All the other guys now have to play knowing that a s*** player like E is making over 3 mil while most of them signed contracts for less than they are worth. Imagine how Jimmy must feel. Jimmy is a true Red Wing. He came off a Caulder caliber year and signed a 2 mil contract knowing damn well he could have gotten a ton more playing elsewhere. Whereas E asks for the moon and sky, after doing nothing but declining play-wise, or at the very best, remaining stagnent, over the past couple seasons.

And he is going to make more than Kronwall this season? Thats completely and utterly retarded. I know Nick gets a raise next year, but still...

This signing does a whole lot more than damage up monetarily. It really f***s up the other players heads knowing most of them are signed to contracts for less than they are worth, while s***ty ass E is making over a million more than he is worth each year.


Edit: and now I see Eaves signed to just 1.2 mil!!! So E is worth 3.25, and Eaves is worth 1.2? Is this bizarro world?

(or does this speak more to the fact that the other guys on the team are true Wings and team players, while E is just a money hungry dickhead who doesn't care about anything else?)

Edited by sleepwalker, 01 July 2011 - 10:19 AM.


#54 Wings_Dynasty

Wings_Dynasty

    The Greatest Ever

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,816 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 01 July 2011 - 10:46 AM

Key question not seen so far:

Is there a no trade clause???

Current LGW Whippin' Boy: Referees

 

HTBanner400x100.jpg


#55 Barrie

Barrie

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,941 posts

Posted 01 July 2011 - 12:23 PM

More importantly, as was already pointed out, this move by Holland sets a horrible precedent and hurts team morale and on top of that, is going to drive up the prices our other players start asking by millions. (I mean, s***, imagine what Kronwall is going to ask for now, seeing someone like E get such an insane contract)

Think about it. All the other guys now have to play knowing that a s*** player like E is making over 3 mil while most of them signed contracts for less than they are worth. Imagine how Jimmy must feel. Jimmy is a true Red Wing. He came off a Caulder caliber year and signed a 2 mil contract knowing damn well he could have gotten a ton more playing elsewhere. Whereas E asks for the moon and sky, after doing nothing but declining play-wise, or at the very best, remaining stagnent, over the past couple seasons.

And he is going to make more than Kronwall this season? Thats completely and utterly retarded. I know Nick gets a raise next year, but still...

This signing does a whole lot more than damage up monetarily. It really f***s up the other players heads knowing most of them are signed to contracts for less than they are worth, while s***ty ass E is making over a million more than he is worth each year.


Edit: and now I see Eaves signed to just 1.2 mil!!! So E is worth 3.25, and Eaves is worth 1.2? Is this bizarro world?

(or does this speak more to the fact that the other guys on the team are true Wings and team players, while E is just a money hungry dickhead who doesn't care about anything else?)

The players will be fine, they understand the market and probably congratulate each other in the locker room. They know, and their agents will tell them, when it's their turn to be a UFA, they can cash in too.

FYI, Kronwall is going to make $3,750,000 in 2011-12, so Ericsson is making less.
http://www.capgeek.c...play.php?id=300
This deal with Ericsson, guarantees Kronwall another $2-3 million per season in his next contract, Kronwall probably likes it.
Lets Go:
Red Wings
Tigers
Roughriders
Lions
Spartans
Pistons

#56 brett

brett

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,023 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 01 July 2011 - 12:27 PM

im not happy with holland at the moment. eaves was good signing ericsson a little much and miller is meh

i was hoping he would be looking for someone a bit gritter then miller

thought he would have got either ernoff or wiz. got neither

looks like karberle is coming to the wings and salei is re signing. :thumbdown:

edit: what are the chances holland is going after a long term deal with doughty? with lids career coming to an end the wings need a top dman. doughty would be perfect.

Edited by brett, 01 July 2011 - 12:58 PM.


#57 Travis

Travis

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI

Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:10 PM

im not happy with holland at the moment. eaves was good signing ericsson a little much and miller is meh

i was hoping he would be looking for someone a bit gritter then miller

thought he would have got either ernoff or wiz. got neither

looks like karberle is coming to the wings and salei is re signing. :thumbdown:

edit: what are the chances holland is going after a long term deal with doughty? with lids career coming to an end the wings need a top dman. doughty would be perfect.


Ehrhoff and Wisniewski got monster contracts.

I think that the moves Kenny hasn't made speaks volumes. Lots of teams scrambling, adding bulls*** pieces that won't necessarily help their cause. At this point Kenny looks cerebral. He now has $13mil to spend on 3 or 4 players. More if this Hudler deal comes through somehow. That's not an accident.

Big moves are coming, they just haven't come yet.

cc_champs-5_zps34057ff0.png


#58 echos myron

echos myron

    swag

  • Restricted
  • Pip
  • 156 posts

Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:33 PM

It's July 1st and we haven't won the cup yet?

I've lost all faith in Ken Holland.

#59 Heaten

Heaten

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,639 posts

Posted 03 July 2011 - 01:12 PM

Bump :ph34r:

July 1st Kenny Holland was the worse GM in the world.

July 2nd Kenny Holland was brilliant and methodical.

Funny how that works.

So far Wings got bigger, faster and younger... and still have over $7 million ($10 million if they move Hudler) left over to spend.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users