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Wings sign D Ian White to 2-year, $5.75m contract


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#241 wingslogo19

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 03:56 PM

I think this will turn out to be a good signing
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#242 Buppy

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 04:43 PM

Mule is injury prone, Flip is well flat. Buff is a guy that is strong, fast and shoots great. Thats the type of guy Id be going after due to the pending retirement of Nick. We need a superstar caliber player. Buff didnt do as well in Atlanta but look at the team he has to play with.

Id like to know who you think is a reasonable replacement for Nick in 2013. We are gonna need an upper echelon player to fill that huge gapping hole.

Lets just say Id like to see a blockbuster trade and fill out the surrounding players to bolster that persons strengths. Not to the poin t of say the Lakers to Kobe or Pitt to Crosby and Malken but a player that can play 20+ minutes a night and average close to a point every other game.

We were stripped down for rebuilding the D and instead did small aesthetic redesigns, stopgap measures and nothing that will reform our core.

No one is going to replace Nick, unless by some miracle Weber becomes available. Maybe Chara; Doughty if he takes the next step...

It will have to be a team effort. I agree we'll likely need a trade, but that trade for Buffy would be awful. Yandle could be a good target. Or a high-potential kid like Bogo or Pietrangelo or Subban. Try to augment that with a FA like Boychuk, Wideman, or if available Burns or Suter.

#243 Cali-Wing-Nut

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 05:13 PM

Im not saying Buff in particular, Im saying a big name player LIKE him. Keith Yandle has a nice ring to it.

My point is we shouldnt be doing all of our rebuilding based on FA. Ill wait and see if thats why we have such huge cap space. If we are done with the D for the year Holland sucks. If he is working some trades then Ill reserve judgment.

I hope at least a few of you can see my distress in how we are remanning the team. Im a business owner and when you know you are going to have a coming retirement, you want to get a replacement in to overlap so that the new guy can hit the ground running so to speak. The way I see the setup right now, we are hiring with the idea that employee turnover will solve our problems. This isnt McDonalds or Walmart. This is a business that needs some career guys that are going to be able to climb the proverbial corporate ladder. Thats ROI not cheap and expendable labor like Holland is signing on right now.
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#244 echos myron

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 05:53 PM

Im not saying Buff in particular, Im saying a big name player LIKE him. Keith Yandle has a nice ring to it.

My point is we shouldnt be doing all of our rebuilding based on FA. Ill wait and see if thats why we have such huge cap space. If we are done with the D for the year Holland sucks. If he is working some trades then Ill reserve judgment.

I hope at least a few of you can see my distress in how we are remanning the team. Im a business owner and when you know you are going to have a coming retirement, you want to get a replacement in to overlap so that the new guy can hit the ground running so to speak. The way I see the setup right now, we are hiring with the idea that employee turnover will solve our problems. This isnt McDonalds or Walmart. This is a business that needs some career guys that are going to be able to climb the proverbial corporate ladder. Thats ROI not cheap and expendable labor like Holland is signing on right now.


:lol:

#245 Buppy

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:10 PM

Im not saying Buff in particular, Im saying a big name player LIKE him. Keith Yandle has a nice ring to it.

My point is we shouldnt be doing all of our rebuilding based on FA. Ill wait and see if thats why we have such huge cap space. If we are done with the D for the year Holland sucks. If he is working some trades then Ill reserve judgment.

I hope at least a few of you can see my distress in how we are remanning the team. Im a business owner and when you know you are going to have a coming retirement, you want to get a replacement in to overlap so that the new guy can hit the ground running so to speak. The way I see the setup right now, we are hiring with the idea that employee turnover will solve our problems. This isnt McDonalds or Walmart. This is a business that needs some career guys that are going to be able to climb the proverbial corporate ladder. Thats ROI not cheap and expendable labor like Holland is signing on right now.

I wouldn't go that far. No trade would be better than a bad trade. We have a good number of prospects, but most of the role-player variety, and mostly at forward. We have few roster players with decent trade value, and no real 'extra' players.

We also have a relatively short time in which to find replacements for Pav and Hank as well. I think we're out of time to find a replacement in the draft, unless we tank far enough to get in the top 5-10. I think the only hope of keeping the train on the tracks is for a couple of our top prospects to become stars. Tatar, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Jurco, maybe Nyquist and Sheahan are guys with a chance. But right now we don't really know if any of those guys will even be the next Filppula. At defense we have Smith, and maybe Marchenko, and then a bunch of guys (mostly undersized offensive guys) who may never even play in the league.

Not exactly a plethora of assets, and if we give up too many of the forwards we increase the odds of needing to do the same thing in a few more years for Pav/Hank; possibly with fewer assets to work with.

We can either do a real blockbuster and trade Datsyuk or Zetterberg (or both) and a bunch of extras and try to address both forward and defense at once, or sell the farm for Nick's replacement and worry about the forwards when the time comes, or trust our forward prospects and try to replace Nick without using them.

The last option seems the best choice to me, but it limits our options. Flip or Mule could be traded, but they'd also need to be replaced with someone good. We've pretty much passed that option this year (at least for Mule), unless we find a desperate team at the deadline. Abby is more expendable, but lower value. Mursak or any of our 3rd/4th line prospects are all expendable. Hudler of course, but he's at a low value point so not a good option right now. Kindl is probably the best option; decent prospect value but replaceable. Smith would be ok, but only if we're getting a sure thing (like Yandle) in return. Picks would have to be the primary piece.

I don't have much hope that we can do anything right now. Yandle is probably beyond our range. I think our best hope is the trade deadline, or next summer.

I think we're done this summer. Kenny's already said it wasn't what he was hoping for, and if he had it to do over again he would probably give up a pick to talk to Wis or Ehrhoff, but what's done (or in this case: not) is done. Can't win 'em all. Just have to hope next year goes better.

#246 Cali-Wing-Nut

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:39 PM

I wouldn't go that far. No trade would be better than a bad trade. We have a good number of prospects, but most of the role-player variety, and mostly at forward. We have few roster players with decent trade value, and no real 'extra' players.

We also have a relatively short time in which to find replacements for Pav and Hank as well. I think we're out of time to find a replacement in the draft, unless we tank far enough to get in the top 5-10. I think the only hope of keeping the train on the tracks is for a couple of our top prospects to become stars. Tatar, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Jurco, maybe Nyquist and Sheahan are guys with a chance. But right now we don't really know if any of those guys will even be the next Filppula. At defense we have Smith, and maybe Marchenko, and then a bunch of guys (mostly undersized offensive guys) who may never even play in the league.

Not exactly a plethora of assets, and if we give up too many of the forwards we increase the odds of needing to do the same thing in a few more years for Pav/Hank; possibly with fewer assets to work with.

We can either do a real blockbuster and trade Datsyuk or Zetterberg (or both) and a bunch of extras and try to address both forward and defense at once, or sell the farm for Nick's replacement and worry about the forwards when the time comes, or trust our forward prospects and try to replace Nick without using them.

The last option seems the best choice to me, but it limits our options. Flip or Mule could be traded, but they'd also need to be replaced with someone good. We've pretty much passed that option this year (at least for Mule), unless we find a desperate team at the deadline. Abby is more expendable, but lower value. Mursak or any of our 3rd/4th line prospects are all expendable. Hudler of course, but he's at a low value point so not a good option right now. Kindl is probably the best option; decent prospect value but replaceable. Smith would be ok, but only if we're getting a sure thing (like Yandle) in return. Picks would have to be the primary piece.

I don't have much hope that we can do anything right now. Yandle is probably beyond our range. I think our best hope is the trade deadline, or next summer.

I think we're done this summer. Kenny's already said it wasn't what he was hoping for, and if he had it to do over again he would probably give up a pick to talk to Wis or Ehrhoff, but what's done (or in this case: not) is done. Can't win 'em all. Just have to hope next year goes better.


That was as clear and concise as it can be... Regarding Hollands lack of planning. Pavs will be back. We will pay him what he wants. Z is another probable lifer although I think Pavs is a better chance as a lifer.

What is bad is that Ken is doing this pick and choose crap with prospects and draft picks. If I was 22 and just won a championship in little league I would expect to be rolled out into the big leagues. Jurco is getting screwed and will want to leave if he watches his ex team mates scoring in the pros.

Maybe Im a different breed but when I buy something, I buy it because I plan to use it. Holland is stuck in the 90s with no cap and just see who looks good after we throw good money after bad.

Ill be rooting for the team come October, I just wont be happy about whos wearing a sweater as well as what our team will look like 3-4 years from now.
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#247 Travis

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:47 PM

Been away all weekend, but I'm happy with this signing and especially happy with the cap hit.

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#248 nuts2u

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:10 PM

My list would include trades and not FA deals. Knowing Holland wouldnt make a deal that didnt benefit him more than the other team its moot.

If it were me, Id do what I could to get Byfuglien. Wrangling him away from Winni would require a trade like Mule and Fip and some considerations. There are a lot of teams that are trading right now and Holland is just aqquiring guys through free agency. Hell the Guppies seem to be at a trading post with the Wild right now, I can hardly fathom there isnt a team with a D man that is in the top thirty for points that wouldnt trade for a guy or two from our team. The cap is there at this moment to do such a thing.

If its realistic, IDK but thats what Id be doing.



Although I wouldn't mind getting rid of Franzen cuz as you said he's made of glass he also is a BIG f***** that plays small, but that trade is way too much for Byfuglien. Wouldn't mind having him but not at that price. He has only had one plus season and that was the Hawks cup season at +7. Too steep but be my guest trading Franzen and his lifetime contract that pays him more than Datsyuk when you figure in the number of games missed due to injury.

Edited by nuts2u, 04 July 2011 - 09:15 PM.


#249 echos myron

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:15 PM

Byfuglien's plus season was 08-09.

#250 Buppy

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:27 PM

That was as clear and concise as it can be... Regarding Hollands lack of planning. Pavs will be back. We will pay him what he wants. Z is another probable lifer although I think Pavs is a better chance as a lifer.

What is bad is that Ken is doing this pick and choose crap with prospects and draft picks. If I was 22 and just won a championship in little league I would expect to be rolled out into the big leagues. Jurco is getting screwed and will want to leave if he watches his ex team mates scoring in the pros.

Maybe Im a different breed but when I buy something, I buy it because I plan to use it. Holland is stuck in the 90s with no cap and just see who looks good after we throw good money after bad.

Ill be rooting for the team come October, I just wont be happy about whos wearing a sweater as well as what our team will look like 3-4 years from now.

It seems you're just determined to hate Holland, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time, and I hate to derail the thread...

You can't really 'plan' to be this good for this long, especially with the veteran-heavy strategy that's been so successful. Low draft picks mean few top prospects. Older players mean fewer trade assets. Plus normal FA attrition. Plus losing Konstantinov and Fischer...

It is nothing short of remarkable that we have remained a legit Cup contender every year of Holland's tenure. No other team in the league has even made the playoffs every year. Many haven't been a contender even one year. While of course much of that success is due to Nick, Pav, and Hank, much is also due to Holland carefully planning for both the present and the future at the same time.

We are still a good team as we are. Good enough to win a Cup if we get hot at the right time. The Sharks got better on defense, but worse at forward. Vancouver and Chicago both lost a good defenseman without really replacing them. LA looks a lot better but they started behind us and we still have to see how they'll gel. Columbus got better but so what. Nashville is worse on defense and still doesn't have an offense. In the East Washington looks good, but still have that choker label to shed. Boston is about the same, Philly looks worse, TB still has work to do but doesn't look like they'll be any better, and Pittsburgh with a healthy Crosby may be the best team right now, assuming he doesn't disrupt the effort/chemistry they found without him. In short, I don't see any team that we aren't capable of beating. I'd say right now we're just outside the group of top contenders, and a bit ahead of the dark-horse range.

In short, we are not in a position that we need to dismantle anything, or make desperate moves now just because it seems like a good idea or because 'well, we need to do something'.

My point on Pav and Hank had nothing to do with them leaving as FAs. Pav is 33, we have maybe 3-5 years at most with him as a dominant player. Hank not much, if any, longer. It takes time for prospects to develop. Even if Jurco (who is 18 by the way) joined the team this year, and is a star in the making, he still might not be ready to take over for Pav in 3 years. Pulu and Jarnkrok are still in Europe. It's not a matter of 'picking and choosing' prospects, whatever that is even supposed to mean. It's that we don't have top 5 picks that are NHL ready on draft day. We draft guys that have a lot of upside, but also need a lot of development before they can play at this level. Pav and Hank both spent 3 years in Europe after we drafted them. Mule might have come straight over if not for the lockout, but he was also 24 when we drafted him. Guys make the team when they're ready (Helm and the stacked '09 team notwithstanding).

This isn't a game where we can just do anything we want. Other teams aren't going to trade for our s*** just because we offer them a lot of it. And there are very few sure bets that even might be available. Yandle looks great, but he could also stagnate or even regress. Even Doughty isn't a sure thing. Making short-sighted moves now may pay off, or may leave us in the same situation but with fewer options.

We have a good team. We have good enough pieces that it won't be the end of the world, even if Nick retires and we don't get an all-star to replace him. We have options at the deadline. We have another summer of free agency. We do not need to make a rash decision. If a good trade is there, great. If not, we need to be patient. Yeah, it sucks that none of the better defensemen made it to free agency. Sucks that the Sharks had the right parts to land Burns. But that does not mean we need to make dumb moves.

#251 nuts2u

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:02 AM

Byfuglien's plus season was 08-09.



s***, I totally f***ed up on that. :blink:

#252 Konnan511

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 05:27 PM

I like our team and I will like it even more come training camp.
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