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Heatley for Havlat swap


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#61 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:02 AM

Danny Heatley has been looking pretty average over the past few years, and is a playoff choker. Good deal for SJ, clears cap space too.

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#62 chrisdetroit

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:04 AM

10 teams that will probably not make the playoffs

Columbus
St. Louis
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Florida
Ottawa
Toronto
Islanders
Minnesota
Phoenix


(8) Teams that might make the playoffs

Chicago
Calgary
Colorado
Anaheim
Dallas
Carolina
Rangers
New Jersey

(12)teams that almost certainly will make the playoffs

Detroit
Nashville
Vancouver
Los Angeles
San Jose
Washington
Tampa Bay
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Montreal
Boston
Buffalo

It must be about more than who will make the playoffs because IMO, there are only 10 teams including Minny that have zero chance of making the playoffs. He may think that Minny has a better chance than say Calgary...
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#63 nuts2u

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:41 AM

So the Sharks have dumped Setoguchi and Heatly and gotten in return Havlat and Brent Burns. Are you kidding me? IMO they have gotten worse not better.


Agree, Burns played horrible after the all star break last season and I read somewhere the Wild were concerned about his concussion issues. Heatly reminds me of our own "power forward" Franzen, lots of size but doesn't use it to their advantage.

#64 mjlegend

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:52 AM

Disappointment in the off-season wheeling and dealing in haiku form.

A rival gets better
The Sharks, I mean, not Minny
I miss contending.

:(

#65 Majsheppard

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:05 AM

Now if they can somehow trade Marleau for a good player, they might actually have a shot at the cup.

They still have two huge chokers there in SJ. Yet the players around them keep getting better.
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Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#66 Shaman

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:06 AM

Disappointment in the off-season wheeling and dealing in haiku form.

A rival gets better
The Sharks,
I mean, not Minny
I miss contending.

:(

They dumped a guy who will more than likely score 35+ goals for a guy that has never broken 80 points or 30 and averages 60~ games a season. Offensively the Sharks have taken a pretty large step backwards. As I have heard other say, the only way people can say the Sharks got better was through addition by subtraction. IE that Heater was s*** in the locker room and that because hes gone they have better moral.
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und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#67 Finnish Wing

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:24 AM

I'm pumped for Mikko. They guy's finally got some good snipers to play with him. Brunette was good as well, but Miettinen was horrible. Setoguchi might already be better than Brunette and we all know what kinda scorer Heatley can be.

Expect Koivu to have a career year with at least point per game.
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#68 blueadams

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:39 AM

there's more to this trade...

how much less does havlat make than heatley...

what FA does that enable SJ to go after...

#69 hooon

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:39 AM

Disappointment in the off-season wheeling and dealing in haiku form.

A rival gets better
The Sharks, I mean, not Minny
I miss contending.

:(


Lol. Find another team then. Your pessimism is downright pathetic.
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#70 ComradeWasabi

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:35 PM

Disappointment in the off-season wheeling and dealing in haiku form.

A rival gets better (6 syllables)
The Sharks, I mean, not Minny (7 syllables)
I miss contending. (5 syllables)

:(


You could at least make it a proper haiku if you're gonna be a debbie downer.
QUOTE (thedisappearer @ December 13, 2008 - 10:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, we're dogpiling on the goalie sammy Hudler the defense the refs league bias against us coaching now? Ok.

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#71 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:04 PM

Poor Heatly couldn't get a trade to the East where scoring is easier. :lol:
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#72 mjlegend

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:33 PM

Lol. Find another team then. Your pessimism is downright pathetic.


After 25 years, I don't think I can do it. The Kool-Aid has got to be pretty yummy, because for me it seems like the Wings' window to win a cup is finally closing after all these years. I'm sorry if I demand a better team than you do. What's the point of losing in the second round every year now?

The Red Wings need more than a tweaking to get better. They need creativity and thinking outside the box.

The Sharks didn't even need Heatley to beat us and now they have a better playoff performer in his position. Getting rid of Heatley is adding through subtraction. I'm not saying we should have gotten Havlat or Heatley, but the team right now isn't good enough to win a round in the playoffs. Doug Wilson knows his team isn't good enough as it is either, and that's why he pulled the deal.

We have added Ian White and Mike Commodore to replace Rafalski and Salei. That's barely a sideways transaction. After defending Kenny for a long while on the whole "Kenny's got a masterplan" idea, I'm finally sick of it. I don't see the masterplan. I don't even see an assistant coach to replace either MacLean or McCrimmon.

Do you think the Wings have improved after two consecutive second round losses? I don't. It used to be the power play was the enforcer. Now, without Rafalski and with Lidstrom a year older, I'm not sure that it will be.

I don't see the succession plan that gave us Yzerman-Shanahan-Fedorov to Lidstrom-Datsyuk-Zetterberg. Either through the draft or through trade, we haven't added a single elite player close to his prime since Hossa left. When Lidstrom retires after this year, are we really comfortable with Kronwall-White-Kindl-Stuart-Ericsson-Smith/Commodore?

The 1998-2002 Grind line would crush the s*** out of us, and it wasn't because they were highly paid or locked in to long-term deals, or were superstar goaltender's brothers. It because they were mean bastards who would outwork and outskate you. There was also an element of "I don't want to go into the corner against that guy" with McCarty. We have none of that right now. We have guys who skate fast and have fewer hits than they did the year before. Wow, how intimidating.

The bottom line is that top to bottom, this might be the worst Wings team to take to the ice since 1991. And with proper foreplanning, it didn't have to be this way.

You could at least make it a proper haiku if you're gonna be a debbie downer.


I miscounted, like
Kenny when giving out
Doug Janik's 'young' age.

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#73 Kira

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 03:15 PM

My first thought when I read this was, "Two s***s that pass in the night."

Thanks for the best laugh I've had all day.
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#74 Doc Holliday

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 03:32 PM

After 25 years, I don't think I can do it. The Kool-Aid has got to be pretty yummy, because for me it seems like the Wings' window to win a cup is finally closing after all these years. I'm sorry if I demand a better team than you do. What's the point of losing in the second round every year now?


Well, since mj said it...

Stop posting here if you are going to keep whining about the gloom and doom of the Wings. You can make an honest discussion about the Wings' future without sounding like a baby.

"The bottom line is that top to bottom, this might be the worst Wings team to take to the ice since 1991. "

One of the most moronic statements ever made.

Let me know how straight talent worked for Detroit in 95, 96, 01, 03. It's about structure, and the Wings were a single game away (don't forget about the injuries and s***ty luck the Wings dealt with in round 2) from making it to the conference finals.

You aren't sounding like a realist. You are sounding like a straight up pessimist.

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#75 Nevermind

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 04:07 PM

I miscounted, like (5 syllables)
Kenny when giving out (6 syllables)
Doug Janik's 'young' age. (5 syllables)


You failed once again,

So please leave us alone now,

And never come back



5-7-5!!!

Edited by Nevermind, 04 July 2011 - 04:14 PM.


#76 IllinoisRedWingsFan

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:10 PM

WOW!!!! Big Move. I think San Jose will get the better end of this one. I'll say why because San Jose gets rid of Heatley and they cleared out a lot of cap space. I am thinking they may go after Doughty or Stamkos.

Edited by IllinoisRedWingsFan, 04 July 2011 - 11:24 PM.


#77 Buppy

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 01:08 AM

...
The bottom line is that top to bottom, this might be the worst Wings team to take to the ice since 1991. And with proper foreplanning, it didn't have to be this way.

...

Yeah, Kenny should have planned better, like the Sharks. Then maybe we could have zero Cups or trips to the finals, but we'd all feel so much better after losing in the 3rd round two years in a row.

The Sharks have been pretty 'creative' post lockout, if you define creative as 'making big trades'. Two blockbuster deals before these Minny trades. Haven't won s*** yet, and it's debateable if they're even any better this year.

Stop kidding yourself. This isn't about wanting the Wings to win. Big trades and big signings don't guarantee anything, and I'm sure you'd admit that if you could be honest with yourself. You, and all the other whiners now bashing Kenny just got your hopes up for some big, exciting move and now you're butt-hurt because you didn't get it. Like a spoiled kid on Christmas that didn't get that shiney, new, must-have toy of the season. You're incapable of appreciating what you do get. Like Veruca Salt. No matter what you get you always want more. The more you get, the more you're convinced that it's always possible to get everything and a good Daddy would get it for you.

But in the real world, sometimes the store's sold out, especially when the stock was low in the first place. Sometimes, when you're trying to guess what the future holds, you're wrong. Sometimes Wonka doesn't want your money, no matter how much you offer.

You don't know what Kenny tried to do, or is still trying to do. You just assume, since the result was less than you'd hoped for, that he didn't try. Or he was stupid, or he's lazy and sucks. People were saying the same s*** in '00, and again '06. A lesser GM might have blown up the team, and we'd be a Cup or two shorter or even in full on rebuild mode like the Avs.

In the space of two years, we have made it through a pretty significant cap crunch while still staying a legit contender. Pretty good work, even if the teams weren't quite as good as we'd have liked. Now we've got the cap room, but we haven't found anyone to spend it on yet, and maybe won't at all this year. But all you can do is act like it's the end of the world because maybe we're only a good team instead of elite.

That doesn't make you a discerning fan; it makes you a spoiled brat.

#78 xtrememachine1

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 07:10 AM

Danny Heatley has been looking pretty average over the past few years, and is a playoff choker. Good deal for SJ, clears cap space too.


"Average" is a nice way of putting it. Playing with Thornton and Marleau, one would think his numbers have dramatically increased, not declined. I can't believe how terrible he's become since leaving Ottawa and playing in the West. Is the West really much more difficult to play in or is it just Heatley?

#79 eva unit zero

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:29 AM

Yeah, Kenny should have planned better, like the Sharks. Then maybe we could have zero Cups or trips to the finals, but we'd all feel so much better after losing in the 3rd round two years in a row.


Woo, it's 1988 all over again!

"Average" is a nice way of putting it. Playing with Thornton and Marleau, one would think his numbers have dramatically increased, not declined. I can't believe how terrible he's become since leaving Ottawa and playing in the West. Is the West really much more difficult to play in or is it just Heatley?


I know I've always considered Heatley overrated. Think about who he's played with in his career. He started off playing with Kovalchuk, then it was Alfredsson and Spezza, then Thornton and Marleau. I'd like to see what he does in Minnesota without help. Oops... he has Mikko Koivu. Maybe we can see what Koivu can do with Heatley and Setoguchi, compared to what Thornton did. Hell... imagine if a guy like Hudler or Cleary spent their entire career with these kinds of players? Huds made the Wings at 19; what if he had been put with Dats and/or Z as a regular line all season? Jiri Fischer is a great example... he was developing slower than expected, and was moved to a pairing with Chelios. Chelios helped him a great deal after that, both in terms of chemistry on the ice as well as teaching him and helping him develop. Fischer, not Lidstrom, would probably be the core of our defense right now if he were still playing.
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#80 Hiei

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:01 PM

Woo, it's 1988 all over again!



Don't laugh, that's the year I was born.

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