Gittin Tougher

[number9 3,297]

So we haven't exactly replaced the offensive ability rafalski had, but we've certainly added some toughness to the blue line.

You can count on commodore and exelby (when hes not in GR) to land some bigggg hits and drop the gloves, and whites no push over.

Question is, will this added toughness make a difference?

will the rest of the team play better? will other teams fear us physically? maybe teach some other players to use their size? (thinking of E lol)

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Wearing a team down physically is never a bad thing as long as it doesn't take away skill

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Glad to see the Wings get more physical on d. I hoped they could have a similar singing on offense, but we'll have to take what we can get.

[GSBrooks13 204]

It's definitely hard to achieve the perfect balance of skill and toughness, but I do think this team is getting fairly close to getting there. I think adding another top 6 forward and possibly replacing someone in the bottom six with someone who has some size and isnt afraid to use it while not being a total liability would pretty much complete the balance.

[Shaman 713]

you misspelled 'getting'...

...seriously though, the wings have a good mix of talent and grit on the bottom 2 d men and bottom

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I'd like to see more speed on the back end more than anything

[number9 3,297]

you misspelled 'getting'...

...seriously though, the wings have a good mix of talent and grit on the bottom 2 d men and bottom

misspelled purposely

I'd like to see more speed on the back end more than anything

agreed. speed on the back end matters these days though i think the level of grit will make up for it...hopefully

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

misspelled purposely

agreed. speed on the back end matters these days though i think the level of grit will make up for it...hopefully

It doesn't matter how tough you are if you can't catch the guy

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

We are a little tougher on defense, but barring injuries, I don't see Commodore and White playing in the same game regularly, let alone Exelby.

I do wish we'd sign a guy like Winchester to get bigger at forward, making it easier to wear other teams down. Guys like Eaves and Miller play hard, but they're not punishing forecheckers and can't wear defenses down very well over the course of a playoff series.

[number9 3,297]

We are a little tougher on defense, but barring injuries, I don't see Commodore and White playing in the same game regularly, let alone Exelby.

I do wish we'd sign a guy like Winchester to get bigger at forward, making it easier to wear other teams down. Guys like Eaves and Miller play hard, but they're not punishing forecheckers and can't wear defenses down very well over the course of a playoff series.

AGREED. we need a punishing forward. at least one. enforcer or not.

[Guest echos myron]

Exelby is probably 3rd or 4th on the call-up list.

[jollymania 162]

I think White is a better hitter than Commodore, and Commodore really doesn't fight that much. What commodore is useful for is clearing out the crease, not his physicality hitting-wise because he doesn't come close to kronwall or stuart as it is.

Edited July 6, 2011 by jollymania

[e_prime 1,936]

I think White is a better hitter than Commodore, and Commodore really doesn't fight that much. What commodore is useful for is clearing out the crease, not his physicality hitting-wise because he doesn't come close to kronwall or stuart as it is.

Something this team DESPERATELY needs. I don't know how many times I've stood up screaming at the TV... "Get that guy outta there!"

Probably so...However - if Babcock lives by his word that nobody is entitled to their job ie Ericsson - then I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if Johnny boy is pushed for that last spot on D by the likes of Exelby/Commadore.

Even though he got his pay day - if I were Ericsson I'd be very worried about my ice time for the 2011/2012 season.

This. I know that so many folks on this board wanted some big splash of a move for some defenseman that probably would have worked out just fine or at least on paper would seem like a more solid move... but in my estimation the level of competition that's going to arise from spots 4-7 is going to be incredible. Commodore has stated he's coming here to work. White is looking for stability. Kindl's gotta be hungry to solidify his spot. Ericsson, well, let's hope he's willing to earn that payday. Who knows? Exelby gets a sniff and he wants more... even Janik... could have a very hungry 4-7.

...and if it all doesn't work out. We still have a LOT of money to make additional moves.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Probably so...However - if Babcock lives by his word that nobody is entitled to their job ie Ericsson - then I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if Johnny boy is pushed for that last spot on D by the likes of Exelby/Commadore.

Even though he got his pay day - if I were Ericsson I'd be very worried about my ice time for the 2011/2012 season.

I'll give you 3.25 million reasons why Ericsson does not need to worry about his ice time.

He wasn't scratched last season and his salary was a lot less, plus, regardless of what most want to see, he has improved... if anyone should be unhappy with how things have shaken out, it's Kindl... he's probably going to need a change of scenery, as we certainly haven't made it appear that he's in our long term plans...

[mmamolo 287]

We are a little tougher on defense, but barring injuries, I don't see Commodore and White playing in the same game regularly, let alone Exelby.

I do wish we'd sign a guy like Winchester to get bigger at forward, making it easier to wear other teams down. Guys like Eaves and Miller play hard, but they're not punishing forecheckers and can't wear defenses down very well over the course of a playoff series.

I think we might be a bit surprised. I think, in camp, Kindl and Commodore will battle for who will be the starting 6th d-man to start the year. Commodore definitely has to prove his physially ready to take on the role and Kindl needs to show he's progressing. Plus, you know there will be an injury - most likely Kronwall. I bet we see White and Commodore in the line up at the same time more often than not.

But you're definitely right, I don't know where people are getting the idea Exelby will get time with the Wings. He's probably tenth on the depth chart (Behind Wings 7th, Smith, and Janik).

[13dangledangle 959]

I'll give you 3.25 million reasons why Ericsson does not need to worry about his ice time.

He wasn't scratched last season and his salary was a lot less, plus, regardless of what most want to see, he has improved... if anyone should be unhappy with how things have shaken out, it's Kindl... he's probably going to need a change of scenery, as we certainly haven't made it appear that he's in our long term plans...

Ya this is a little surprising to me as Kindl hasn't played bad either, I kind of thought he was going to be our extra guy and Big Rig was on his way out. I certainly feel better looking at our roster now then last week...

[RedWingsExpert1988 8]

Replace Miller with a big and tough enforcer. Also Replace hood-ler with someone bigger and more physical but can also put up a decent amount of points. Then the team would almost be completely balanced, minus a top 4 defense men.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Replace Miller with a big and tough enforcer. Also Replace hood-ler with someone bigger and more physical but can also put up a decent amount of points. Then the team would almost be completely balanced, minus a top 4 defense men.

Yea, replace Miller, who just re-signed here, that's how GM's work in the NHL

Wait, I forgot, we need an enforcer!

I would have loved the Wings to have added someone like Cody McCormick (who still isn't signed, last I checked) and passed on Miller, but they signed Miller and our forwards are locked barring a trade, in which case, we'd be bringing in a top 6 guy, NOT a bottom 5+1(enforcer)

queue, tired, old, enforcer debate... AGAIN... in 3...2...1...

Ya this is a little surprising to me as Kindl hasn't played bad either, I kind of thought he was going to be our extra guy and Big Rig was on his way out. I certainly feel better looking at our roster now then last week...

That's what I thought too originally, with the way things have played out, I still think he's going to be traded, probably in a package with Hudler to unload his salary...

[stevkrause 1,247]

You think Ericsson will play even if Exelby/Commadore were to outplay him throughout the fall camp?

It would be a bitter pill to swallow for Holland, but ya gotta ice whomever is best for the job...I certainly hope Ericsson improves, and earns his contract - however I don't want him out there just because of his salary - especially if others can play his role better, and more consistent.

I think you're looking at this wrong... Commodore will be battling with Kindl for the 6th spot and the loser of that battle with take the 7th, Ericsson is the 5th, so, barring some MASSIVE, insane, double effort where Kindl AND Commodore outplay E so glaringly (that they're both probably even outplaying Stuart and Kronwall), the 5th spot is Ericsson's.

Exelby couldn't even crack the roster in Chicago, he is not going to take anyone's job... he is a good depth signing and will be good in GR, but as many have already touched on, he's about 10th or maybe even lower on the depth chart, so unless he 'roids up, and comes into camp skating like a young Pavel Bure and blasting 110mph slapshots, he's not taking anyone's job...

Depth chart:

Lidstrom

Kronwall

Stuart

White

Ericsson

Kindl(*)

Commodore(*)

Janik

Smith

Exelby

*to be decided in camp, could flip/flop

EDIT - Also, regardless of the slack he takes on this board, at this time, Ericsson is not only higher on the depth chart, but he is a better player than those below him (although only slightly in some cases), so it's not just the contract that guarantees him the spot, but his play as well.

Edited July 6, 2011 by stevkrause

[Travis 576]

You think Ericsson will play even if Exelby/Commadore were to outplay him throughout the fall camp?

It would be a bitter pill to swallow for Holland, but ya gotta ice whomever is best for the job...I certainly hope Ericsson improves, and earns his contract - however I don't want him out there just because of his salary - especially if others can play his role better, and more consistent.

Yes. Exelby won't outplay him and Commodore is the 6th defenseman. He'll likely be paired with Ericsson and will hopefully show him how to use his size a little better.

As far as needing a Top 4 d-man, that's Ian White at this point. I think that they'll lessen Nick's minutes by essentially putting him on the 2nd pairing with White and put Kronwall and Stuart back together.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I agree Ericsson was signed with the idea of playing the role of the #5 Dman (now that Kaberle is signed and it appears Holland is done with our blueline) - just that many of us aren't comfortable with him there, but that's more of a personal opinion than anything else.

I'm certain Exelby, and Commadore will play hard, and try to crack the line up in the fall camp...I wouldn't be too surprised with the recent signings that 1 or 2 of them find their way into the bottom pairing on D, or for that matter if Kindl manages to slot in at the #6 spot.

As e_prime stated earlier that we'll have a hungry group of guys battling for those last 2 spots on the roster, and to me that's a good thing.

I'm pretty sure Commodore will probably be our everyday #6, Kindl and E don't make a good pairing, so Kindl is most likely going to be the odd man out - He'll still keep the #7 role as long as he's here, but probably won't see action unless there is an injury...

I could not agree more on the part in bold.

[e_prime 1,936]

Thanks for reiterating my initial post, F. Michael.

I'm not slotting anyone into any spot past #3.

As you shouldn't either Stevkrause... I mean, didn't you just trade Hudler and Kindl for Lucic. There goes that competition at the #6/7 between Commodore and Kindl I kid! I kid!

As the ever optimist here, I would love Ericsson to give White a run at your #4 spot.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Thanks for reiterating my initial post, F. Michael.

I'm not slotting anyone into any spot past #3.

As you shouldn't either Stevkrause... I mean, didn't you just trade Hudler and Kindl for Lucic. There goes that competition at the #6/7 between Commodore and Kindl I kid! I kid!

As the ever optimist here, I would love Ericsson to give White a run at your #4 spot.

Hey, you gotta admit, that was a pretty solid trade on my part! It's odd, I send in my resume to the litany of teams looking for a new GM every year, and yet, no job offers...

As for the D positions, even if #4 and #5 change, I think we can all agree that neither White, nor Ericsson are going to drop out of the top 6, which I why I say it's pretty locked 1-5... I fully expect Commodore to take that #6 role too, so I think Kindl will be traded at some point anyways, as he will likely get frustrated at his lack of opportunity...

that gets me thinking, get me on the phone with Peter Chiarelli, I have something I need to talk to him about!

Agreed.

At times it seemed the pairing of Lids/Stewie didn't work out as well as it could, or should have...I like the idea of White playing with Lids, and if Commodore does encourage Ericsson to use his size to his advantage on a consisten basis - that alone will get many here such as myself off of his back.

same here, I think Stewart and Kronwall play very well together and I think White would compliment Nick well on the 1st pairing... at least those are the combos I want to see...

[kylee 727]

Exelby most likely wont even come close to playing for the Wings this year so idk why he is even brought into the discussion. But I agree with the main points of getting tougher with our D. But guys we didn't replace Rafalski's offense oh no!!!!!!! People are never satisfied, but I like the Commy and White signings. We have plenty of skill, we needed toughness.

[newfy 695]

I think White is a better hitter than Commodore, and Commodore really doesn't fight that much. What commodore is useful for is clearing out the crease, not his physicality hitting-wise because he doesn't come close to kronwall or stuart as it is.

Commodore had 2 fights in 20 games with a team he didnt even wanna be on last year, that works out to 8 over a full season, and thats on a team that already has Boll and Dorsett doing alot of that dirty work. With the wings Commie will be the go to guy when it comes to fighting and I expect he will have around 10 next year. He knows the wings want him to be mean, they said it in the interview about the signing. To hold down a spot he'll be fighting.

Knowing that a 6'5 mean Canadian has his back will probably let Abby go a little loose too and Ericcson will play with more balls knowing he isnt the only big guy on D who can scrap, trying to earn his paycheque.

I think it will be surprising what kind of effect a guy like Commie will have on some of these guys