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Wingzman91

Emmerton vs. Conner

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Doubt it. Abs will be bounced probably from 3-4th line throughout the season pending on injuries. I think Abs and Helm take a huge step this season more so for Helm but maybe for Abs too. Abs was playing on the 2nd line last season when we had those string of injureies over half way through the season. Babcock likes Abs work ethic and his playing time shows whether it's on the PK, 3rd or 4th line and or filling in on the second line. Abs just like Helm needs to find some sort of finishing touch on scoring. Or just being more consistent for both of them.

You don't think Miller has at least a chance at a regular spot ahead of Abdelkader? If you take my lineup and put Franzen on Datsyuk's wing and move Flip to the third line, you have either Abdelkader/Flip/Bertuzzi or Miller/Flip/Bertuzzi. There's not really much of a difference there; if anything Miller has the advantage as he scored 10 goals last season to Abby's 7.

On regards to this thread. Emmerton most likely will be the 14th forward unless Conner really shows up at camp. Our forwards are set in stone and I think Babs knows the lineup already before even the start of camp. Only surprise I think will be if we ending up getting a top 6 forward at the trade deadline.

Emmerton is likely penciled in right now simply because of everything the organization has invested in him, and the fact that he has good skills, good potential, and would be one of only three forwards on the team under the age of 25. Conner will probably put in a good fight, but will not displace him.

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You don't think Miller has at least a chance at a regular spot ahead of Abdelkader? If you take my lineup and put Franzen on Datsyuk's wing and move Flip to the third line, you have either Abdelkader/Flip/Bertuzzi or Miller/Flip/Bertuzzi. There's not really much of a difference there; if anything Miller has the advantage as he scored 10 goals last season to Abby's 7.[/font]

Emmerton is likely penciled in right now simply because of everything the organization has invested in him, and the fact that he has good skills, good potential, and would be one of only three forwards on the team under the age of 25. Conner will probably put in a good fight, but will not displace him.

For sure Miller has a chance over Abby. But I doubt it. Abby also had THE TEAM BEST +/- last year at +15. But I think Abby's faster, a better skater and is more physical that's why Babs played him a little more than Miller last year except for maybe on the PK (probably for both was about the same amount of ice time). I'm just saying I think Abs is earning his spot on this team but not just not with points yet.

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Mursak is an effective checker with speed and work ethic to match Conner's, but better skill. Emmerton is reliable defensively but doesn't fill a checking role. However, he is the most offensively capable of the three, and if the Wings are going with 14 forwards they don't need two reserve checking forwards. I expect Miller and Emmerton to start the year as the reserves, possibly one of them in for Abdelkader.

Cory looked ready in his short time up last year. He's not a star, but he's competent and still as a lot of potential and development left in him. Conner better be NHL-ready at his age. He's played a decent number of games for multiple teams, which suggests that he's at least serviceable in a Doug Janik sort of way.

Emmerton is the obvious choice, because he's so much more likely to be claimed on waivers. Because:

1) The Wings don't need to have two reserve checking line forwards for the fourth line.

2) Emmerton provides a "scoring reserve" which would allow a Mursak/Helm/Eaves line to stay intact in the event of injuries.

3) Emmerton knows the Wings' system, and has the skills to play within it proficiently.

...

Emmerton is likely penciled in right now simply because of everything the organization has invested in him, and the fact that he has good skills, good potential, and would be one of only three forwards on the team under the age of 25. Conner will probably put in a good fight, but will not displace him.

Emmerton isn't any more of a scorer than Mursak, or Abby, or Helm, or even Eaves, Miller, or Conner. The only thing Emmy really has going for him is that he can play center. Doesn't have great size or speed, hasn't displayed any remarkable skills, his AHL production hasn't been particularly good... Being younger and familiar with our system certainly don't hurt, but if he was a winger I'd say he'd be behind Conner right now. Versatility beats speed when you're talking about reserves.

But I really don't think Emmy has a future with this team, barring any surprising developmental surge. We already have five centers (6 if you count Mule as an emergency center) above him on the depth chart, he doesn't really add anything special to the wing, and we've got a few more centers in the system that will likely pass him in a few years. I think at most he hangs around for a few years until the kids behind him are ready. Really, unless we want to trade Flip or Abby (which is a possibility) there isn't any reason to keep him.

As it is, he and Mursak are 13/14 until training camp. When we're healthy, they'll likely rotate with Miller, Eaves, and maybe Abby or Hudler if they don't produce. I wouldn't mind if we dumped Emmy to take a chance on Zherdev. At worst, Zherdev sucks and gets a permanent seat and guys like Miller, Eaves, and Mursak have to sit less. And obviously, if we get a real top-6 forward it would be even better.

Buffalo needs to shed some cap, and maybe hoping Kotalik can bounce back with them. Wonder if Boyes could be available.

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Guest echos myron

For sure Miller has a chance over Abby. But I doubt it. Abby also had THE TEAM BEST +/- last year at +15. But I think Abby's faster, a better skater and is more physical that's why Babs played him a little more than Miller last year except for maybe on the PK (probably for both was about the same amount of ice time). I'm just saying I think Abs is earning his spot on this team but not just not with points yet.

That's pretty much a wash. Neither of them are exceptionally fast or great skaters. Abby is more physical but he also takes way more stupid penalties. He sucked in the playoffs.

Miller averaged around 30 more SHTOI than Abdelkader yet was on ice for the same amount of goals against. Miller is a better PKer imo.

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That's pretty much a wash. Neither of them are exceptionally fast or great skaters. Abby is more physical but he also takes way more stupid penalties. He sucked in the playoffs.

Miller averaged around 30 more SHTOI than Abdelkader yet was on ice for the same amount of goals against. Miller is a better PKer imo.

I don't think so otherwise I wouldn't have said anything. Abs is the better skater imo. Abby is more physical but that's no shocker and he sucked in the playoffs....yup. Very hard to be conistently great/good come every playoff year for a player. Miller might be a better on the PK but Abby has more upside. Abs is a little younger too. And there was a reason why Babcock was playing Abs on the second line last year when we had those string of injures over half way through the season.

Back on topic and I'm done with the Abs vs Miller comparisons Emmerton is our 14th forward :thumbup:

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Conner's stats last year :

Pitts

Games 60

Goals 7

Assists 9

+/- +5

PIM 10

Hits 50

BkS 20

GWG 3

-------------------

Alot of games that he looked good in, I think he played on the top two lines at times and during the playoffs.

I am glad we are in a position where we have depth like this and it's not from guys about to retire.

That said, it's going to sting a little to lose one of these guys.

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Emmerton doesnt really have muc offense. Hes a playmaker with skills that arent really good enough to be a top 6 guy. Playing with 4th liners will make his playmkaing pretty much useless.

Hes a solid player down in GR but doesnt really stand out, Conner is apparently super quick though hwich is something this team lacks. Its hard to say but I really just see Emmerton going the way of Ritola because he doesnt have a real niche. The wings may have signed Conner just to insert some speed in thel ineup because theyve seen what Helm does out there and how it helps the team.

They probably see it as potenitally putting Conner on a line with Mursak and drawing a tonne of penalties off of speed alone. It could work out that the wings have a real burner on every line which wuld give this team a nice change for once and help balance out the Bertuzzis and Holmstroms.

I didnt vote because I dont know enough about Conner but from what I've seen in Emmerton watching probably about 25 GR games last year, he never really stands out in anything which doesnt bode well for an NHL career

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Emmerton is quick and has good skill, so would fit well as a substitute when Franzen/Holmstrom/Bert miss games, or on one of the top three lines if he makes the top-twelve. Conner doesn't have the hands or hockey sense to play an offensive role, but he is a hard worker and a good grinder despite his size; and he's fast. Conner in the lineup for Abdelkader would make for a Mursak/Helm/Conner line, allowing the Wings to utilize Eaves' shot on a scoring line.

Potential lineups with each player:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Filppula/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi

Cleary/Helm/Eaves

Mursak/Emmerton/Holmstrom

Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary

Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves

Mursak/Helm/Conner

Both of those are solid lineups, but I think I prefer to run with this regular lineup:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

It's certainly easy to plug Emmerton into Abdelkader's spot in that lineup as the third line center, also.

:hysterical: Hudler on all your top lines...

I prefer Emmerton AND Conner in the lineup instead of Hudler...

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Filppula

Franzen/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi

Cleary/Helm/Eaves

Miller/Abdelkader/Mursak

Emmerton/Conner

...but seriously, if we are stuck with Hudler, I'd say unless there is a trade in the works, let them battle it out in camp. I am leaning toward Emmerton because he put his "time" in, but if COnner is as fast as they say, he could compliment Helm and Eaves wonderfully... It's fun to be a Wings fan thus far this year!

Edited by LeftWinger

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Emmerton doesnt really have muc offense. Hes a playmaker with skills that arent really good enough to be a top 6 guy. Playing with 4th liners will make his playmkaing pretty much useless.

Hes a solid player down in GR but doesnt really stand out, Conner is apparently super quick though hwich is something this team lacks. Its hard to say but I really just see Emmerton going the way of Ritola because he doesnt have a real niche. The wings may have signed Conner just to insert some speed in thel ineup because theyve seen what Helm does out there and how it helps the team.

They probably see it as potenitally putting Conner on a line with Mursak and drawing a tonne of penalties off of speed alone. It could work out that the wings have a real burner on every line which wuld give this team a nice change for once and help balance out the Bertuzzis and Holmstroms.

I didnt vote because I dont know enough about Conner but from what I've seen in Emmerton watching probably about 25 GR games last year, he never really stands out in anything which doesnt bode well for an NHL career

I don't know too much about Conner either, but I'm reasonably sure he and Emmerton can sit in the press box at the same speed. Conner was signed to add competition, I think, not because he really adds anything to the team. Our bottom 6 already has excellent speed with Helm, Mursak, Eaves, Abby is pretty quick, and there's a good chance we see one of Cleary or Flip on the 3rd line. Even Miller hustles enough to seem quicker than he really is.

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Emmerton isn't any more of a scorer than Mursak, or Abby, or Helm, or even Eaves, Miller, or Conner. The only thing Emmy really has going for him is that he can play center. Doesn't have great size or speed, hasn't displayed any remarkable skills, his AHL production hasn't been particularly good... Being younger and familiar with our system certainly don't hurt, but if he was a winger I'd say he'd be behind Conner right now. Versatility beats speed when you're talking about reserves.

But I really don't think Emmy has a future with this team, barring any surprising developmental surge. We already have five centers (6 if you count Mule as an emergency center) above him on the depth chart, he doesn't really add anything special to the wing, and we've got a few more centers in the system that will likely pass him in a few years. I think at most he hangs around for a few years until the kids behind him are ready. Really, unless we want to trade Flip or Abby (which is a possibility) there isn't any reason to keep him.

As it is, he and Mursak are 13/14 until training camp. When we're healthy, they'll likely rotate with Miller, Eaves, and maybe Abby or Hudler if they don't produce. I wouldn't mind if we dumped Emmy to take a chance on Zherdev. At worst, Zherdev sucks and gets a permanent seat and guys like Miller, Eaves, and Mursak have to sit less. And obviously, if we get a real top-6 forward it would be even better.

Buffalo needs to shed some cap, and maybe hoping Kotalik can bounce back with them. Wonder if Boyes could be available.

Technically, the Wings have eight centers (if you include Emmerton), not five. Emmerton is a better playmaker than any of the guys you listed, and he has a decent shot. He's also a good skater.

I don't think so otherwise I wouldn't have said anything. Abs is the better skater imo. Abby is more physical but that's no shocker and he sucked in the playoffs....yup. Very hard to be conistently great/good come every playoff year for a player. Miller might be a better on the PK but Abby has more upside. Abs is a little younger too. And there was a reason why Babcock was playing Abs on the second line last year when we had those string of injures over half way through the season.

Back on topic and I'm done with the Abs vs Miller comparisons Emmerton is our 14th forward :thumbup:

Abs vs Miller is a matter of aggressive vs. defensive. Abs has the physical advantage, and Miller is more of a defensive player.

Emmerton doesnt really have muc offense. Hes a playmaker with skills that arent really good enough to be a top 6 guy. Playing with 4th liners will make his playmkaing pretty much useless.

Hes a solid player down in GR but doesnt really stand out, Conner is apparently super quick though hwich is something this team lacks. Its hard to say but I really just see Emmerton going the way of Ritola because he doesnt have a real niche. The wings may have signed Conner just to insert some speed in thel ineup because theyve seen what Helm does out there and how it helps the team.

They probably see it as potenitally putting Conner on a line with Mursak and drawing a tonne of penalties off of speed alone. It could work out that the wings have a real burner on every line which wuld give this team a nice change for once and help balance out the Bertuzzis and Holmstroms.

I didnt vote because I dont know enough about Conner but from what I've seen in Emmerton watching probably about 25 GR games last year, he never really stands out in anything which doesnt bode well for an NHL career

Emmerton isn't a top-6 player right now, but the Wings run three scoring lines. If he makes the top twelve he can play on the third scoring line and not look out of place.

:hysterical: Hudler on all your top lines...

I prefer Emmerton AND Conner in the lineup instead of Hudler...

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Filppula

Franzen/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi

Cleary/Helm/Eaves

Miller/Abdelkader/Mursak

Emmerton/Conner

It's because I kept Homer with Dats, and put either Franzen or Flip with Dats. And I had Z centering line 1. Hudler would be most effective with either Dats or Z, so that's where he goes. Put Z's line as line 2 if it bothers you. As for your lines, you keep Emmerton over Hudler? Seriously? I could understand a logical argument for Conner, Miller, etc. But Emmerton's best skills don't match Hudler's, except for skating. And that gap doesn't come close to making up for it.

Ozzie. Just have a feeling.

Perhaps even

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AlzsP4jN1E&feature=related

Edited by eva unit zero

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Technically, the Wings have eight centers (if you include Emmerton), not five. Emmerton is a better playmaker than any of the guys you listed, and he has a decent shot. He's also a good skater.

Emmerton isn't a top-6 player right now, but the Wings run three scoring lines. If he makes the top twelve he can play on the third scoring line and not look out of place.

Hudler is not an NHL center, and Mule only in an emergency. Pav, Hank, Flip, Helm, and Abby are the only real centers, aside from Emmy. Two of them get hurt we'd need a center, so that's why we'd want Emmy. But if it's a wing position, anyone else on the roster would fit better, including Conner.

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Hudler is not an NHL center, and Mule only in an emergency. Pav, Hank, Flip, Helm, and Abby are the only real centers, aside from Emmy. Two of them get hurt we'd need a center, so that's why we'd want Emmy. But if it's a wing position, anyone else on the roster would fit better, including Conner.

Two forwards get injured and your 14th forward goes in, right? Given the "real" centers you've provided, it seems Emmerton is the choice, as two injured centers make an extra center necessary. If Conner is the 14th, and two of those five centers are injured, that means Franzen moves to center and the only other player with experience playing center is Hudler, who you already said isn't an NHL center. It also means that there is a likelihood that multiple skilled playmakers are injured, so Emmerton would be a better choice than Conner.

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Guest CaliWingsNut

Holland mentioned today when talking about Draper that if he stays on he may need to compete with Emmerton for a position. He didn't bring up Conner.

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I think Hudler could switch in at center just as well as Emmerton could.

That said I think the experience will win out and they will try and sneak Emmerton down to GR.

You could have Flip, Huds, Abs, Mule all fill in at center and do just as good as Emmerton.

I hate it but here goes, even if we had Z and D injured:

franzen,filpulla,holmstrom

bertuzzi,abdelkader,cleary

miller,hudler,eaves

mursak,helm,conner

If there is a god, he won't let this happen.

I don't see how plugging Emmerton in anywhere makes this team better.

They knew his contract was coming for this season and they still played Tatar etc.

The confidence doesn't seem to be on either side, Emmy's or the organization.

I'm in the minority though, as through 74 votes, LGW is 2/3 in favor of Emmerton.

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For sure Emmerton makes the team, unless he completely disappoints in camp. He is younger, and is a homegrown talent. Emmerton will get every chance over Conner. It is no problem to lose Conner to waivers (if even possible, I dunno his contract situation), and it is a much bigger risk to subject Emmerton to waivers for a team to pick up for free.

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I think Hudler could switch in at center just as well as Emmerton could.

That said I think the experience will win out and they will try and sneak Emmerton down to GR.

You could have Flip, Huds, Abs, Mule all fill in at center and do just as good as Emmerton.

I hate it but here goes, even if we had Z and D injured:

franzen,filpulla,holmstrom

bertuzzi,abdelkader,cleary

miller,hudler,eaves

mursak,helm,conner

If there is a god, he won't let this happen.

I don't see how plugging Emmerton in anywhere makes this team better.

They knew his contract was coming for this season and they still played Tatar etc.

The confidence doesn't seem to be on either side, Emmy's or the organization.

I'm in the minority though, as through 74 votes, LGW is 2/3 in favor of Emmerton.

Looking at your lineup, there's a few things. Switch Abs and Hudler, first thing. Abdelkader is not a playmaker, and Hudler would benefit from big-bodied wingers. Your lineup is also severely lacking in playmakers, in general. Filppula, Hudler, and who else? Bertuzzi can be a decent passer. Emmerton in there makes a lot more sense than a quick, small grinder in Conner. Especially when all of the grinders are still in the lineup. Conner only makes sense if the injuries are to Mursak and Eaves, taking most of the speed out of the checking line.

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I think Hudler could switch in at center just as well as Emmerton could.

That said I think the experience will win out and they will try and sneak Emmerton down to GR.

You could have Flip, Huds, Abs, Mule all fill in at center and do just as good as Emmerton.

I hate it but here goes, even if we had Z and D injured:

franzen,filpulla,holmstrom

bertuzzi,abdelkader,cleary

miller,hudler,eaves

mursak,helm,conner

If there is a god, he won't let this happen.

I don't see how plugging Emmerton in anywhere makes this team better.

They knew his contract was coming for this season and they still played Tatar etc.

The confidence doesn't seem to be on either side, Emmy's or the organization.

I'm in the minority though, as through 74 votes, LGW is 2/3 in favor of Emmerton.

Two reasons for that: Emmerton is already "ours", and Conner isn't particularly good anyway.

Also, Miller would play center before Hudler. Hudler will never play center at even strength. Not on Babcock's team. We'd grab a junk FA first, or a call-up. Franzen would also play ahead of Hudler.

Really, if both Pav and Hank were out, we'd probably go to three lines, with Flip, Mule, and Cleary double shifting at times:

Cleary-Flip-Homer/Hudler

Bert-Abby-Mule

Miller-Helm-Eaves

Cleary/Mule-Flip/Mule-Hudler

With Mursak/Emmerton/Conner spot shifting here and there, regular shifts only when the games aren't close.

Looking at your lineup, there's a few things. Switch Abs and Hudler, first thing. Abdelkader is not a playmaker, and Hudler would benefit from big-bodied wingers. Your lineup is also severely lacking in playmakers, in general. Filppula, Hudler, and who else? Bertuzzi can be a decent passer. Emmerton in there makes a lot more sense than a quick, small grinder in Conner. Especially when all of the grinders are still in the lineup. Conner only makes sense if the injuries are to Mursak and Eaves, taking most of the speed out of the checking line.

Having "playmaking skills" doesn't necessarily mean he's a playmaker in the NHL. The skills actually have to be good enough to matter, which at this point that seems suspect. He barely managed a point every other game in the AHL. Putting a marginal playmaker in that lineup instead of Conner really doesn't improve anything. That lineup sucks regardless of what plug is rounding out the bottom. You could also argue that Conner's overall skills are better, which would make him more effective. In practically the same number of AHL games, Conner had 25 more assists (and 38 more goals).

SO, again, Emmerton's style or level of offense doesn't matter. The only thing that makes him a better option is that he's a center (or was in the AHL at least...we don't really know if he can handle the position in the NHL yet), and that Conner's skills are also pretty negligible.

But compared to an established NHL player, especially a guy with real NHL skill, Emmy loses badly. Of the few FAs left, I'd take Wellwood easy over him, and also Zherdev. I'd consider Samsanov or Dupont even, though that'd be kind of a waste since I doubt I'd slot either in the top 12. Same goes for the old guys, I think they're all better than Emmy, but not good enough that I'd want them as regulars. Counting trades, there'd be a ton of guys I'd take over Emmy, and not just "star" players.

Edited by Buppy

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Fans on some of the other Wings forums think that Emmerton's contract will scare away other teams from picking him up off waivers. How true is that?

Assuming Emmerton gets to that point, of course.

His nearly league-minimum contract, which he's signed to for three more years? The one which is still two-way for this season? If I'm a GM, that isn't scaring me off. A solid young player developed in a good system. What would be scary is if he were RFA after this season. That puts the potential for him to explode out of nowhere and score 50 points (or more) and suddenly need a new deal on a team that clearly would have been relying on him and wants to keep him.

If he goes to waivers, he's gone.

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His nearly league-minimum contract, which he's signed to for three more years? The one which is still two-way for this season? If I'm a GM, that isn't scaring me off. A solid young player developed in a good system. What would be scary is if he were RFA after this season. That puts the potential for him to explode out of nowhere and score 50 points (or more) and suddenly need a new deal on a team that clearly would have been relying on him and wants to keep him.

If he goes to waivers, he's gone.

He is a RFA after this contract is up.

Absolutely. If nobody else, Yzerman knows what Emmerton can do.

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He is a RFA after this contract is up.

Absolutely. If nobody else, Yzerman knows what Emmerton can do.

Emmerton is signed through 2013-14. My comment was more that it would be scary if he were an RFA next summer, because it means he could suddenly explode and cost them team a lot of money it didn't have. He's signed for three more seasons at $533,333. Then he is an RFA. He's got top-six potential. As a waiver pickup, that's GOLD.

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